T3 is Apart, Now What to do?

[jckrieger]

I finally took apart my semi-virgin T3 last night and have the cylinder head on my work bench. The car/engine have 90K miles, so I'm trying to come up with a list of parts to replace while I'm digging in. The cylinder walls look new, the rocker arms look excellent, and the cylinder head has no cracks.

I've already replaced the lifters at around 45K miles and I'll be replacing the timing belt and installing a Cometic MLS head gasket. I also plan to re-lubricate the timing belt idlers since they seem low on grease. I also have special surfacing discs for preparing the block and head surfaces for the MLS gasket.

What else should I replace while the engine is apart? The oil pump and intermediate shaft were replaced at SDAC 3 years ago. I'm thinking about installing a set of new valve spring retainers, but I'm not sure it's worth while since the valvetrain looks great after 90K miles. Let me know what you guys think. This car is mostly stock with only a front mount intercooler and 2.5" exhaust.

Also, does anyone have a good source for pinning the cam gears when I set the timing?

[turbovanman²]

Give it to me, :p

I would get the retainers, helps take the load off the belt, do Jackson's idler relocation, hone it and new rings. Inspect oil pump and shaft teeth, new valve seals, stage 1+ cams from me, slight port job, log header or tube header from me, :clap:

Valve gears, simply pin with a drill bit, set at TDC and install belt, I like to use those brake hose clamps to hold the belt in the intake pulley, install tensioner pulley last.

[Tempted]

I want your old lifters...... I need a few bad ones for a little R&D.

I use allen wrenches to pin the cams, they are easier to get a hold of and get out than drill bits. And I doubt anyone here will admit it, but there have been a LOT of pins/bits/allen wrenches, etc left pinned when the motor is cranked for the first time. What I do is use a piece of painters tape and stick it to the cam gears, then run the tape back to the passenger side fender. When doing your once over(checking belts, tools, oil, coolant, etc) before starting the car it is very easy to forget about your pins. With the tape there, its impossible to miss.

[jckrieger]

That's a good tip! My old lifters only have about 40K miles on them, but a few of them seemed to stick once in a while and make a bunch of noise. I'll see if I can dig some up, as I'm pretty damn sure I saved the old lifters in the tray the new ones came in.

I got the surface preparation discs for the Chrysler service bulletin from a coworker, so I'll be prepping the head and block tonight with them. White wheel for aluminum and the yellow wheel for the block. I just hope Chris Wright can ship my new head gasket in a timely manner so I can get this thing back together.

I may bust out the die grinder and clean up the intake manifold and the intake ports, or I'll just leave everything alone. I'm going to try and get an idea of how bad the port match really is before I make any changes.


I want your old lifters...... I need a few bad ones for a little R&D.

I use allen wrenches to pin the cams, they are easier to get a hold of and get out than drill bits. And I doubt anyone here will admit it, but there have been a LOT of pins/bits/allen wrenches, etc left pinned when the motor is cranked for the first time. What I do is use a piece of painters tape and stick it to the cam gears, then run the tape back to the passenger side fender. When doing your once over(checking belts, tools, oil, coolant, etc) before starting the car it is very easy to forget about your pins. With the tape there, its impossible to miss.

[Tempted]

Meh I just got used to the noisy lifters. They are too darned expensive to replace every time one starts ticking. When I replace them is when they start drying out after high RPM runs and give a knock sound when you slow back down.

[turbovanman²]

That's a good tip! My old lifters only have about 40K miles on them, but a few of them seemed to stick once in a while and make a bunch of noise. I'll see if I can dig some up, as I'm pretty damn sure I saved the old lifters in the tray the new ones came in.

I got the surface preparation discs for the Chrysler service bulletin from a coworker, so I'll be prepping the head and block tonight with them. White wheel for aluminum and the yellow wheel for the block. I just hope Chris Wright can ship my new head gasket in a timely manner so I can get this thing back together.

I may bust out the die grinder and clean up the intake manifold and the intake ports, or I'll just leave everything alone. I'm going to try and get an idea of how bad the port match really is before I make any changes.

Becareful with those discs, they can still round off edges.


Meh I just got used to the noisy lifters. They are too darned expensive to replace every time one starts ticking. When I replace them is when they start drying out after high RPM runs and give a knock sound when you slow back down.

Usually its crud, just take them apart, clean them and put them back together. I have the updated set and they started making noise, took them apart and found the plastic rings were coming apart and were inside, cleaned them, good as new.

[Tempted]

I am looking for some failed ones to see what I might be able to come up with. I'm sure I can get something together. I have a CNC mill with 3d scanner software, would be neat to cut one apart and see what I can do.

[turbovanman²]

I am looking for some failed ones to see what I might be able to come up with. I'm sure I can get something together. I have a CNC mill with 3d scanner software, would be neat to cut one apart and see what I can do.

Cut apart? They fall apart, its really simple, you have the lifter base which is a cylinder with one closed end, then you have a spring and a plunger with metering holes, that's it.

[Tempted]

Yeah but I can't scan it in one piece, the camera won't be able to capture the inside. I need to cut one from bottom to top, don't want to do it on a good lifter.

[Tempted]

This is what I use.

http://www.tormach.com/product_cnc_scanner.html

[black86glhs]

I've never left a pin or anything holding cam gears before. I don't have to lie about that. I did leave the rotators out of a quad 4 once. Cranked over really fast ....lol.

[jckrieger]

I won't be pulling the pistons since this engine has good oil control. I do 10K mile oil changes and the car uses less than a pint of oil between changes! In fact, this car uses less oil than any other car I've owned (which isn't saying a whole lot I guess).

I'll install a header once the turbo blows up. My philosophy with this car has been "upgrade as stuff breaks". Luckily, stuff breaks all the time so it has been getting plenty of upgrades lately. I'll be installing a 3 bar map and +40's if I ever get around to making a flashable SBEC.


Give it to me, :p

I would get the retainers, helps take the load off the belt, do Jackson's idler relocation, hone it and new rings. Inspect oil pump and shaft teeth, new valve seals, stage 1+ cams from me, slight port job, log header or tube header from me, :clap:

Valve gears, simply pin with a drill bit, set at TDC and install belt, I like to use those brake hose clamps to hold the belt in the intake pulley, install tensioner pulley last.

[turbovanman²]

I've never left a pin or anything holding cam gears before. I don't have to lie about that. I did leave the rotators out of a quad 4 once. Cranked over really fast ....lol.

LOL, never did that with a Quad 4 but did break one drill bit on my van, but that's another reason to use drill bits, they simply break rather than bend and mess other things up.

---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------


Yeah but I can't scan it in one piece, the camera won't be able to capture the inside. I need to cut one from bottom to top, don't want to do it on a good lifter.

Gotcha.

[Tempted]

My biggest "are you kidding me" moment was changing oil on a Spirit R/T. Got it all drained, new filter on it and in the Mobil 1 went. And out the Mobile 1 came because I forgot to put the plug back in the pan.

I also forgot to put an ignition fuse back in a car after changing a fuel pump one time. Took me an entire extra day to figure it out, I sent the customer home in one of my cars.

[black86glhs]

I'd rather have those moments than the, "did I torque the rod bolts?" moments any day!

[Tempted]

Or the "Where did this brand new piston ring come from?" when your cleaning up after a rebuild.

[turbovanman²]

I'd rather have those moments than the, "did I torque the rod bolts?" moments any day!

I had something similar happen, back when I was an apprentice, I was putting an SBC together and was adjusting the valves, stupid tower operator pulled me off to do a quick oil change after I'd asked her not too otherwise I could forget something, well got it back together, it was in a fully loaded van and the f*cking lifters were noisey, had to redo them in the van, :censored:

[Tempted]

Just tell the customer that you upgraded them to solid lifters and they tick...

[bahelion89]

if you replace the valve seals look into alternatives..a few of the guys use thunderbird seals(i think) and they work alot better and are dirt cheap...its what im switching to at the beginning of the year. i'd give you the link but its saved on my phone..do a search and it will pop up.

modded or titanium retainers are a must i'm kicking myself for not having them yet(i will have them at beginning of the yr) it doesnt have to deal with valvetrain as much as cam life and belt life. the retainers plus jackson mod pretty much make so u never have to worry about your valvetrain or belts again. the roughly 200 dollar investment is the best you can do for these.

if you have the time and money a little head work and hot tanking wouldnt hurt either along with arp everthing. pass that enjoy the car if u turn up the boost to much you will have to look into different rods

[turbovanman²]

4.6 valve seals, I posted that up, :nod:

[bahelion89]

thanks! exactly which vehicle did you use as a reference for the seals?

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

i just realize i only have 28 posts and ive been a member for 2yrs...i need to send more time on this site compared to others lol! sorry for the tangent

[rich tideswell]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?67408-Another-option-for-valve-seals.-O%29

96ford tbird i think was the application. Sealed Power #SS72891

[jckrieger]

I'll have to pick up a set of these seals as well. It looks like I'm not going to be installing the spring retainers until after the head goes back on, so I'll wait to do seals/retainers at the same time next month. Thanks for bringing this information together!

I received a Cometic/Wiseco head gasket from Chris W today. Great service, Chris went the extra mile to get the gasket to me on-time.

I've never installed an automotive MLS gasket before. I picked up a can of Permatex copper gasket spray. Do you guys install the gasket dry or do you use a spray-on gasket sealer? I know my parent's 95 Neon has an MLS gasket that was installed dry without problems. I'm thinking about using the spray since I have it, but I'm curious what other peoples' experiences have been.

[Pat]

I'll have to pick up a set of these seals as well. It looks like I'm not going to be installing the spring retainers until after the head goes back on, so I'll wait to do seals/retainers at the same time next month. Thanks for bringing this information together!

I received a Cometic/Wiseco head gasket from Chris W today. Great service, Chris went the extra mile to get the gasket to me on-time.

I've never installed an automotive MLS gasket before. I picked up a can of Permatex copper gasket spray. Do you guys install the gasket dry or do you use a spray-on gasket sealer? I know my parent's 95 Neon has an MLS gasket that was installed dry without problems. I'm thinking about using the spray since I have it, but I'm curious what other peoples' experiences have been.

I have used copper spray on mine multiple times. No issues.

[Lotashelbys]

Yes copper spray for sure if your block does not have a fresh deck. I would do whatever you can to get the deck as flat as you can. I use a 1/2" think by 4"x 12" piece of machined flat aluminum that I put 3M Stick-It 180 grit on and that works well for a poor mans mill lol

[jckrieger]

I'm not sure if the deck is flat, but I know the surface finish is nice. I used the proper 3M polishing wheels for the Neon MLS head gasket installation so everything has a nice surface finish. I'm not too concerned, but it'd be really nice to have this car not leak a drop of coolant. I think it has been 3 years since the cooling system was sealed 100%.



Yes copper spray for sure if your block does not have a fresh deck. I would do whatever you can to get the deck as flat as you can. I use a 1/2" think by 4"x 12" piece of machined flat aluminum that I put 3M Stick-It 180 grit on and that works well for a poor mans mill lol

[jckrieger]

Are there any tricks for getting the old freeze plugs out of the deck of the head? My plan was to drill a small hole and try to use a screw extractor, but if there's something better let me know. I figure worst case I can just step up the drill size until the drill bit grabs it and pulls it out.

[Lotashelbys]

Ya with a small chisel or flat tip screwdriver pound lightly on the side of the plug to turn it 90 degrees and pull it out with a needle nose

[jckrieger]

The head is back on the car with new freeze plugs (except for the 7/16" plug since Cindy's kit was missing that size). The MLS gasket fit perfectly and the Vortech 4.3L valve cover gaskets fit better than I expected. I will say the compression on the gaskets is likely a little much, but I didn't break any tabs off the valve cover so I guess it wasn't too bad.

The factory turbo oil supply line is in very bad shape. I think I have a stainless line somewhere, but if not I'll have to find some hydraulic hose and some new EFI style clamps. If all goes well I'll have the car running tomorrow. Titanium valve retainers will come next year when it's time to check the timing belt tension after a couple thousand miles.

[jckrieger]

The car is back together and running. Unfortunately, it appears the starter is hosed. Once in the past the starter failed to engage the flywheel and made a grinding sound. Now it does it 9/10 times I start the car. It's not the flywheel, as I can turn the crank to a new position and it does the same thing. I'm guessing letting the car sit for a few weeks allowed the starter to stick.

Any recommendations? I have a spare used reman Bosch starter I'll probably throw on there and will inspect the starter that comes off the car.

[turbovanman²]

Nippo starters are my favourite.

Grap an Earls line and some fittings, better than hose clamped lines.

[jckrieger]

I'm going to try and find a Denso starter for the R/T. I'll run the reman Bosch but will make sure I have a spare on hand.

-Clark

[jckrieger]

It took about 3 hours, but I finally got the starter replaced. Getting all the airbox/hoses out of the way to access the top two bolts was a PITA. I really miss my 8V cars sometimes. The bendix on the old starter was sticky, so the starter would spin up before the gear would get a chance to engage. I might try to order a new bendix for this starter, or maybe I'll try to get a reman Denso.

I'm going to miss warm weather. The R/T feels like a truck compared to what I've been driving during the non-snow months.

[cordes]

You're driving the R/T in the snow?

[jckrieger]

You're driving the R/T in the snow?

Sadly, the R/T has been demoted to "all weather" status. I figure if I keep an eye on the underside, apply undercoating in the problem areas, and keep her clean she'll be good for at least another 10 years. By then I'll be ready for a different sedan and parts for this car will be un-heard of. There really are other sedans out there that some day deserve to be a replacement for the R/T. I'd really like to own a G37 6MT sedan some day.

[cordes]

Wow, that's pretty wild. I sure hope that parts are still around in 10 years though. I think I've got a lot of life left in many of my cars!

[jckrieger]

Wow, that's pretty wild. I sure hope that parts are still around in 10 years though. I think I've got a lot of life left in many of my cars!

I hope parts are available too, but the T3 motor is a PITA and parts are getting more and more scarce. Plus, the parts are already prohibitively expensive. The Spirit makes 224hp, which isn't bad, but it's also not industry-leading anymore. It's hard to justify limping the engine along for another 20 years when there are better performing motors out there that don't require this kind of attention.

Many stereotypical TD'ers wouldn't even think of trying to maintain a T3. How many T3 cars get taken apart and then never get put back together? I really hate having spent ~$600 in parts for the engine this year, and then thinking about how I'll have to spend almost $1200 to put good shocks on the car next year. I've used KYB's and Monroe's, but neither of them were able to handle the spring rates when I tried them on my old Daytonas. Of course, Konis are out of production so I get to install coil-overs on the car if I don't want it to bounce down the highway when I have passengers in the car.

Certainly there will be a day when it makes sense to make the Spirit go away. I like the car, that's why I plan to drive it another ten years. At some point though, my wife will put me in the loony bin for limping this thing along. I have the most high-maintenance assortment of vehicles. Some day I'll need at least 1 "regular" car to drive around.

With all that said, I'm going to have to be careful about which car replaces the Spirit. A friend came over yesterday to replace the output shaft seal on his 2008 Impala and we noticed his year old rear tires had no tread on the inside edges. Why was the output shaft seal leaking on a 2008? Why is the car wearing the rear tires like crazy? I'd rather be replacing my head gasket or timing belt than trying to fix the rear suspension and replace tires that are less than a year old. I guess sometimes the grass is greener.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

Here's a good example of why some day I'll have to change daily drivers. Since the car was new, the following parts have been replaced in 90K miles:

Intermediate shaft
Lifters
Oil Pump
Timing Belt x3
Valve cover gaskets x2
Head Gasket
Radiator
Various A/C Parts
Idler pulleys
Serpentine Belts x2
Aluminum pipe plugs for the head
Shifter Bushings
Rear Shocks
Sway Bar Bushings
Strut Mounts
Headlight lenses (not yet replaced)
Alternator
Water pump

The wife's G35 has had the following parts replaced in 90K miles:

Wheel Bearing
Hood Hinge
Serpentine Belt
Brake Pads

One vehicle seems to be less of a headache than the other...

[cordes]

That's a pretty good comparison. Have you done the analysis on the over all cost to travel those 90K miles?

[jckrieger]

Of course if I did that analysis the Spirit would come out ahead. I didn't pay anything for it and my wife paid about 15K for the G35. The total cost of parts for her car was around $300 and the total cost for the parts for the R/T is around $1,400. The R/T gets 26-28 mpg and the G35 gets about 22-23.

Of course, if $/mile was the most important, I wouldn't be driving a turbo-dodge OR a G35. I'd have a Ford Escort or a 50cc scooter.

The R/T is faster than the G35, but the suspension is getting rough so the G35 feels more confident in the corners. The interior/build quality/power band is better on the G35 and it'd be more pleasant to drive if it had a manual transmission.

With that said, the R/T can not be replaced by a regular car. I'd take my Spirit over a newer Avenger, 200C, Impala, or basically any regular car that is frequently available at a rental car agency.


That's a pretty good comparison. Have you done the analysis on the over all cost to travel those 90K miles?

[cordes]

Of course if I did that analysis the Spirit would come out ahead. I didn't pay anything for it and my wife paid about 15K for the G35. The total cost of parts for her car was around $300 and the total cost for the parts for the R/T is around $1,400. The R/T gets 26-28 mpg and the G35 gets about 22-23.

Of course, if $/mile was the most important, I wouldn't be driving a turbo-dodge OR a G35. I'd have a Ford Escort or a 50cc scooter.

The R/T is faster than the G35, but the suspension is getting rough so the G35 feels more confident in the corners. The interior/build quality/power band is better on the G35 and it'd be more pleasant to drive if it had a manual transmission.

With that said, the R/T can not be replaced by a regular car. I'd take my Spirit over a newer Avenger, 200C, Impala, or basically any regular car that is frequently available at a rental car agency.

That's the real killer IMO. In 90' Chrysler made a fleet of vehicles which are perfect for me. I don't know that anyone has done so since.

[turbovanman²]

I hope parts are available too, but the T3 motor is a PITA and parts are getting more and more scarce. Plus, the parts are already prohibitively expensive. The Spirit makes 224hp, which isn't bad, but it's also not industry-leading anymore. It's hard to justify limping the engine along for another 20 years when there are better performing motors out there that don't require this kind of attention.

Many stereotypical TD'ers wouldn't even think of trying to maintain a T3. How many T3 cars get taken apart and then never get put back together? I really hate having spent ~$600 in parts for the engine this year, and then thinking about how I'll have to spend almost $1200 to put good shocks on the car next year. I've used KYB's and Monroe's, but neither of them were able to handle the spring rates when I tried them on my old Daytonas. Of course, Konis are out of production so I get to install coil-overs on the car if I don't want it to bounce down the highway when I have passengers in the car.

Certainly there will be a day when it makes sense to make the Spirit go away. I like the car, that's why I plan to drive it another ten years. At some point though, my wife will put me in the loony bin for limping this thing along. I have the most high-maintenance assortment of vehicles. Some day I'll need at least 1 "regular" car to drive around.

With all that said, I'm going to have to be careful about which car replaces the Spirit. A friend came over yesterday to replace the output shaft seal on his 2008 Impala and we noticed his year old rear tires had no tread on the inside edges. Why was the output shaft seal leaking on a 2008? Why is the car wearing the rear tires like crazy? I'd rather be replacing my head gasket or timing belt than trying to fix the rear suspension and replace tires that are less than a year old. I guess sometimes the grass is greener.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

Here's a good example of why some day I'll have to change daily drivers. Since the car was new, the following parts have been replaced in 90K miles:

Intermediate shaft
Lifters
Oil Pump
Timing Belt x3
Valve cover gaskets x2
Head Gasket
Radiator
Various A/C Parts
Idler pulleys
Serpentine Belts x2
Aluminum pipe plugs for the head
Shifter Bushings
Rear Shocks
Sway Bar Bushings
Strut Mounts
Headlight lenses (not yet replaced)

The wife's G35 has had the following parts replaced in 90K miles:

Wheel Bearing
Hood Hinge
Serpentine Belt
Brake Pads

One vehicle seems to be less of a headache than the other...

I like the comparison but your comparing apples to oranges, plus the R/T was never meant to be a plush, smooth car, lol.

As for you saying the TIII needs a lot of upkeep etc, I call BS. Sure they have some quirks but they are blown out of proportion. 3 timing belts in 90K, you should have done one, and at least if it goes, nothing gets bent. Apart from cracking heads-easy fix, lifters-easy fix and price out other cars-you'd go :faint: etc, and they are not that expensive to repair and keep going. Find a 3000lb car that can run 12's or 13's, get high 20 mpg some get 30+ with a car from today, damn near impossible unless you spend $30K or more or get a turbo diesel car.

[jckrieger]

I agree. It's sad that I can't think of a lot of cars that I'd want to replace the R/T with. I guess it shows how good the "design" of the car was back in 1991. We should come up with a list of cars that could replace the R/T without any substantial sacrifices in performance, economy, or "comfort", if you can call a Turbo-Dodge comfortable.

I'll start the list with:

Dodge Charger (V6 or V8) - My V6 Charger rental was one of the few cars I've driven where I didn't hate it. It also got close to 30 mpg and was RWD. I did hate how soft the car launched so I can't say I'd be happy with the performance without some modifications to the engine/transmission controls.

Infiniti G35/G37 - These cars are available in RWD or AWD, with a 6sp manual transmission, have reasonable weight (3300-3500 lbs), and have between 280-330 hp. They also aren't all beat to hell. Oh, and a 350Z with a good driver is REALLY hard to catch on an auto-x course.

Cadillac CTS-V - These cars have some suspension issues, but after some work I could live with the rest of the car. I think they depreciate rapidly as well.

BMW 3 series - These are expensive, and less reliable than my R/T. I like the concept, but I don't think I could own one of these.

Any other ideas?




That's the real killer IMO. In 90' Chrysler made a fleet of vehicles which are perfect for me. I don't know that anyone has done so since.

[jckrieger]

I agree it's somewhat an apples to oranges comparison, but they are both midsize "sport" sedans from their respective era's. The G35 nearly matches the performance of the R/T, while still being fairly reliable. I agree you can't make an G35 go nearly as fast on the same budget. I'd imagine my Spirit could run a solid high 13 in the 1/4 these days, while the G35 would be well into the 14's.

As far as timing belts go, I never actually failed a timing belt. I'm in the habit of replacing the timing belt any time I have a reason to remove the timing belt from the car. The first timing belt was replaced due to age as preventative maintenance, the second one was due to the intermediate shaft failure, and the third was replaced when I installed the new MLS head gasket. The second and third timing belts were carefully installed with the correct belt tension gauge. I agree that the intermediate shaft failure was likely accelerated by the fact the original timing belt was slightly over-tensioned. I rely on this car getting me places, so I need to replace things before they leave me stranded on the side of the road. I think the general rule for T3 timing belts should be every 10 years/40K miles. For about $18 it's money well spent. I remember back in the early 90's the T3 cars were already having timing belt issues. If they were a problem on new cars, I have no reason to believe the problem to be resolved on my car.

I agree it will cost at least $10K to replace the R/T with a "better" car with similar mileage. That's why the Spirit isn't going anywhere. At this point I think I've replaced most of the "problem" parts on the car so I do expect it to become more reliable and be less prone to random issues. I do plan to install the titanium valve retainers and new valve stem seals next spring. I'll also have to replace the front struts before too long. Some day the clutch will need to be replaced, but it should make it to 150K miles without any problem.


I like the comparison but your comparing apples to oranges, plus the R/T was never meant to be a plush, smooth car, lol.

As for you saying the TIII needs a lot of upkeep etc, I call BS. Sure they have some quirks but they are blown out of proportion. 3 timing belts in 90K, you should have done one, and at least if it goes, nothing gets bent. Apart from cracking heads-easy fix, lifters-easy fix and price out other cars-you'd go :faint: etc, and they are not that expensive to repair and keep going. Find a 3000lb car that can run 12's or 13's, get high 20 mpg some get 30+ with a car from today, damn near impossible unless you spend $30K or more or get a turbo diesel car.

[jckrieger]

Ok, I'm getting this thread somewhat back on track. Next weekend I will be installing a new timing belt tensioner and idler pulley from Cindy, along with a set of titanium valve spring retainers. I also plan to install the flashable SBEC from BoostButton.com along with +40% injectors and a 3 bar map. While I'm at it, the car will also likely get valve stem seals and a Walbro 255 fuel pump.

The problem with all of this work is I'm going to end up also needing a new clutch, a larger turbo, and a LOT of new tires!

[cordes]

That's a problem to have Clark.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Cadillac CTS-V - These cars have some suspension issues, but after some work I could live with the rest of the car. I think they depreciate rapidly as well.

Have you driven a CTS any resonable distance? Do before you decide to buy one. My mother-in-law has one. After 30 minutes in the car I want out because the seats are so uncomfortable. I had to drive it across Wa state November of 2011. I could barely get out of the car at the end of the drive.

My Omni, New Yorker and Daytona I can get in and drive across the country and hop right out at the end. I'm an average 6'0" 200lb'ish (depending on how much I try and stay in shape) guy.

[turbovanman²]

^^Sounds like a plan, but you might as well put a larger turbo on, you know you want to do it, :eyebrows:


r "comfort", if you can call a Turbo-Dodge comfortable.



I think they are comfy, I have no issues driving for hours in the van.

[jckrieger]

Have you driven a CTS any resonable distance? Do before you decide to buy one. My mother-in-law has one. After 30 minutes in the car I want out because the seats are so uncomfortable. I had to drive it across Wa state November of 2011. I could barely get out of the car at the end of the drive.

My Omni, New Yorker and Daytona I can get in and drive across the country and hop right out at the end. I'm an average 6'0" 200lb'ish (depending on how much I try and stay in shape) guy.

That is really good feedback. Compared to the Viper or the G35, the Spirit isn't the most comfortable. However, it is still better than many newer cars I have been in lately. However, I would also be disappointed if I purchased a car primarily for the seats. Either way, the car is running great so it might be another 10 years before it gets replaced.

[GLHNSLHT2]

However, I would also be disappointed if I purchased a car primarily for the seats.

Well no the seats aren't everything about a car but since you have to sit in them to enjoy it they're pretty important. If you want out of the car after 30 minutes you aren't going to want to drive it much.

Case in point. A buddy had a brand new 98 Civic with a cold air intake and some suspension mods. It had great throttle response and I dialed in the alignment so it stuck like glue. It was faster than a stock 88 ShelbyZ through the twisties. But an hour down the freeway and you were clamoring to get out. I drove it from Spokane, Wa to SoCal straight through and it was horrible. It was so nice to drive the GLHT back home on that trip. Riding in comfort the whole way back.

[jckrieger]

It was so nice to drive the GLHT back home on that trip. Riding in comfort the whole way back.

I think you may be the only person to ever call a GLH comfortable! However, I do know where you are coming from. This is why the auto-x guys say you can't have a competitive car that is also a daily driver. One of the local guys had to have back surgery after driving his race prepped mustang to work on the bumpy roads. In comparison, my vehicles make the bumps apparent, but I'm not the slightest bit shaken up on the same roads.

All of that is why I like driving the GTS so much. The car has firm suspension, but it really absorbs the bumps well. It's the perfect balance of having a responsive suspension while still feeling like a grand touring car.

[ShelGame]

"jckrieger has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Need to reply to your PM...

[jckrieger]

Done! Inbox cleaned up!


"jckrieger has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Need to reply to your PM...

[jckrieger]

So tonight I installed the Boostbutton flashable SBEC and got the car running. I fought the flashable SBEC for almost 2 hours flashing various calibrations on it to no avail. On a whim, I used the "erase eeprom" feature on the stock calibration I had flashed to the SBEC. After erasing the eeprom, I turned the ignition on and the fuel pump primed! Previously, no matter what I did the fuel pump would not prime after flashing a calibration, whether it was a stock cal or a Turbonator variant.

Does anyone have any clue what happened? How did the car run after I "erased" the eeprom? Anyway, I flashed the Turbonator T3 2 bar cal on the ECU and will be driving it to work tomorrow. I setup switchable boost, the 2 step rev limiter, and the check engine light on knock features. I will provide some feedback on the 2 bar cal before I install the 3 bar map and +40's and run the Turbonator T3 3 bar calibration later in the week.

[ShelGame]

I sent you a PM alos, but the EEPROM is where the alarm buts are stored. If the ECU came from a car with a factory alarm, it won't run in another car until you clear the EEPROM. They also stored the emissions maint reminder mileage there, and some other bits for various things, mostly to do with the CCD bus it looks like.

Sorry, I usualy clear the EEPROM before I finish up a computer now. I must have forgot to do yours.

[jckrieger]

Rob,

Your feedback has been top notch. I highly recommend people buy this flashable setup from you, as you have a huge wealth of knowledge and an excellent product. I'm really glad I went this route over trying to build my own module and figure everything out myself. You knew exactly what was wrong once I gave you enough information to make sense out of what I was doing.

The Turbonator T3 cal works great, so I'll be continuing to tweak the calibration once I get additional instrumentation setup.

[ShelGame]

Rob,

Your feedback has been top notch. I highly recommend people buy this flashable setup from you, as you have a huge wealth of knowledge and an excellent product. I'm really glad I went this route over trying to build my own module and figure everything out myself. You knew exactly what was wrong once I gave you enough information to make sense out of what I was doing.

The Turbonator T3 cal works great, so I'll be continuing to tweak the calibration once I get additional instrumentation setup.

Thanks for the feedback, but honestly it's hould have been more plug-n-play - especially since I made everything for you. With the user-installed flash boards I expect a little learning curve, not with with a turn-key system. I'll try to improve the instructions.

[shellboy]

my r/t is down at the moment. so, i got a 1992 spirit 3.0 v6 for $170 that i drive daily. i got to fix my r/t soon, cause the 92 puts me to sleep! lol