Issue with edglock21 - Edwin King

[Lugert]

Group buy started in March.
He paid July 10th via paypal.
He was not in the original group buy and was put to the back of the list when the HEP's came in. (not a problem now since I have a few extras now)

Less than a month had gone by and he reports a complaint to paypal.
(while others have waited since March, this was known)
Paypal complaint filed and I refunded his money like he asked.

Then after the refund was sent, a few days later I get a "Chargeback" because he also made a complaint with his Credit Card Company. So now I am out $50.00 because he will not simply close the "Chargeback", even though he has already received his refund via paypal.

So now my paypal account is under investigation. I am still waiting for him to cancel the complaint/chargeback and return MY $50.00

All PM's and dealings have been through TM.com

[Frank]

Please send me the PM's. I will help to try and resolve this.

[Lugert]

PM's sent.

[Lugert]

I should add that the only thing he needs to do is go to his paypal account and cancel the chargeback.

It is as simple as one click of the mouse, but he refused to do that.

[Frank]

I have sent him an e-mail. He needs to resolve this. We will give him a little bit of time.


Frank

[edglock21]

I find it strange that the other 3 folks I've bought parts from here have had no issues with me, nor I with them. I paid promptly and promptly received the parts - the way a transaction should work (see my iTrader ratings). If the part is not readily available, I should have been told that, not strung along for 3 weeks waiting to see if a supplier can resupply. Now my good name is being drug thru the mud as the bad guy???

I've never had to use the Paypal dispute process in my 3.25 years of buying on eBay (27 purchases from 25 individuals - 100% POSITIVE feedback) and have had to call and speak to a PP representative twice during this process.

During my last call to PP, the rep told me that the credit to my account can take 3-4 business days to process - it was issued on August 8th (according to their records) and would show either August 11th, last Friday (it didn't) or today, Monday the 14th.

I will cancel the dispute when my money is back in my account. I never "refused" to do that, as Bryan has accused me of doing.


Frank - I PM'd you and Ken during this process to keep you up to date and thought Bryan and I could settle this like adults - obviously I was wrong.

Attached is a TXT file of all of our PMs - it's kinda hard to read in TXT, but it's all there. I have PDF files of the screenshots that are much easier to read, but they are big - I will email them if necessary.

[Frank]

Ok folks.... take a big deep breath.

Ed, its fine that you wanted to do a refund, etc and opt out of the group buy. Lugert will have to accept that, and I think he already has. I think that was the original issue that you informed us on... for some reason I dont think I read that PM.

I think the real issue now is that the complaint was filed, Bryan refunded the money, however you also check soemthing else, and its causing Bryan to be out and Additional $50... not just the money he refunded.


Frank

[Lugert]

I would appreciate PM's be kept just that...Private.

I would also appreciate my money back into my account.

I would also like to state that it is a SIMPLE request to have you cancel the complaint.

[Frank]

I removed the attached PM's. Bryan has a point about them... not to be public... unless the Admin's deem nessecary... aka legal action. I have reviewed the PM's from both sides.


Thanks

[Lugert]

For the record, the original paypal complaint was filed and satisfied on August 8th. (See picture).

The only problem now is the "Chargeback" which Ed needs to cancel.

[edglock21]

For the record, the original paypal complaint was filed and satisfied on August 8th. (See picture).

The only problem now is the "Chargeback" which Ed needs to cancel.


During my last call to PP, the rep told me that the credit to my account can take 3-4 business days to process - it was issued on August 8th (according to their records) and would show either August 11th, last Friday (it didn't) or today, Monday the 14th.

As I stated earlier, when the money is back to me, I'll cancel the chargeback. I realize it was done on the 8th, but it is not back to me as of 3:15PM today.

My 29 days being out $50 vs. Bryan's 6 days being out $50 - was a thread here necessary - I didn't feel the need to post an "Don't buy from Lugert" thread, I tried to work it out between us in PMs. I posted the PMs as evidence of how often I contacted Bryan, what was said, and how I got no response for a week - before notifying Bryan of my filing of the dispute (that got a reply!)

Frank, I should be able to defend myself when called out in public about a private transaction - should I not?

To say that PMs should remain "P" doesn't cut it, I didn't make this public - anyone that reads this will now question whether or not they want to do business with ME, when I was the one wronged in the first place.

I realize this is your site and that it's your decision what you choose to allow in people's postings, I just feel I should be able to defend my good name.

I also realize that Bryan's been around these sites a lot longer than I have and people will take to heart what he has to say about his dealings with a particular member of the TD community (possibly, even, in lieu of my excellent transactions with other board members).

[Frank]

Ed,
Sorry if you feel that I wasnt allowing you to defend yourself. That wasnt the intent. I adjusted the title earlier because I understand that this is not something you are proned to do. TM is the moderator between you and Bryan so I downloaded the PM's and then deleted the attachment because it should be private... our philosophy is anyone can prove to us and we will handle the rest and make it right within our powers.

I think part of the problem here, which had me confused here, is familarization and nomenclature of the pay pal process. I didnt realize that you were still waiting for the money to show up in the account. I agree with you now that I know that.

I see Lugert's point though on this because even though he issued a refund based on the complaint, the chargeback is going to automatically withdraw money above and beyond the money already refunded.... that is his beef with the situation.

So for both parties... be patient. And Ed dont worry about this screwing up your reputation... once this is resolved, the thread title will be updated accordingly.

[Lugert]

The money IS in his paypal account, it was on August 8th.
See the picture/screen shot I posted above, it states exactly that.

He is waiting for a transfer to his personal checking account, which is crazy in my eye.

See below. (Chargeback was the day after I refunded the money, hmmm)



Chargeback Details
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Transaction ID:
48596519SU7271357
Buyer Name:
Edwin King
Buyer Email:
ed_paypal@yahoo.com
Transaction Amount:
$50.00 USD


PayPal Case ID:
PP-190-350-808
Reason for Dispute:
Non-Receipt
Chargeback Amount:
$50.00 USD
Chargeback Date:
Aug. 9, 2006
Status:
Reviewing Case
Status Details:
Thank you for providing us with the following information confirming that you issued a refund to the buyer:

Transaction ID: 50726969U5223315E
Transaction Date: Aug. 3, 2006
Transaction Amount: $50.00 USD

No further action is required by you at this time. Our Chargeback Resolution Specialists will review the details of this transaction along with the information you provided to determine whether the chargeback may be successfully disputed against the buyer's credit card company.

It is PayPal's standard practice to dispute wrongful chargebacks. One of the benefits of using PayPal is that our team of chargeback specialists will gather the necessary information from you and work with the credit card company until the chargeback is resolved. Learn more about how PayPal investigates chargebacks.

Seller Comments:


Dispute History Log - Most Recent 4
The Dispute History Log displays all actions related to your claim.
Date Actor Action Details
Aug. 9, 2006 Seller Proof of refund provided
Aug. 9, 2006 PayPal Email sent to Seller
Aug. 9, 2006 PayPal Email sent to Buyer
Aug. 9, 2006 Buyer Chargeback initiated

[edglock21]

Ed,
Sorry if you feel that I wasnt allowing you to defend yourself. That wasnt the intent.
I understand that Frank, however Bryan's PP posts are still there - would they not considered private as well?


So for both parties... be patient. And Ed dont worry about this screwing up your reputation... once this is resolved, the thread title will be updated accordingly.With 144 views (as I post this), I think the damage is already done.

At least know I know where not to get my "Escort Serv" :D :D :D :

[Lugert]

LOL! The Escort service tag Rocks!
(You can select anything to say for paypal.)

I love paying with paypal, can you imagine how many people get an ear full from that! LOL!! Fricking cracks me up!



On a side note, it shows TWO refunds. Bummer for me at this point.

Oh, and based on your paypal account, the transaction IS completed. Please do the right thing and cancel the Chargeback.

[Frank]

I understand that Frank, however Bryan's PP posts are still there - would they not considered private as well?

Sorry for the confusion on that. You can list your own PMs and such because you are giving consent. We dont like it when people post other's people's PM without concent. Not a big deal... its one of those unsaid things. Dont sweat it.


Frank

[edglock21]

LOL! The Escort service tag Rocks!
(You can select anything to say for paypal.)

I love paying with paypal, can you imagine how many people get an ear full from that! LOL!! Fricking cracks me up!

Please do the right thing and cancel the Chargeback.

Checked my account, funds have been received and, as promised, the chargeback has been cancelled.

I don't need to be lectured to by someone that sets up their Paypal account as an Escort Service to intentionally embarass people they do business with, on what is the correct thing to do.

Throughout this process, I've been the one doing the correct thing - contacting you privately about a private business deal. Not making a public post about it. You were out $50 for 7 days, I was out $50 since July 10 (here it is August 15th and I now have my money back).


A bit of foreshadowing here in my last update to Frank and Ken:


Guys, I received a reply from Bryan regarding our deal. Above is his PM and my reply to him.

This is still just informational for you at this point, I would like to resolve this issue like adults. So far it hasn't turned ugly and I hope it doesn't - I just want the part or my money back.

Well I've learned my lesson.

[Lugert]

A bit of foreshadowing here in my last update to Frank and Ken:
Foreshadowing because you knew what you were doing would cause problems.


Well I've learned my lesson.
I hope others have too.



You should have not double dipped my account. That was WRONG.
And then to hold onto the money was even worse.

The money was refunded and back into your account on August 8th, per paypal. Today is the 15th. It is not the number of days, it is the principal of the whole thing. You handled it very poorly, very.

[Lugert]

Right now my paypal account is not fixed.
Because the nature of a Chargeback, this will probably take a month or more to fix.




Chargeback Details

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transaction ID:
48596519SU7271357
Buyer Name:
Edwin King
Buyer Email:
ed_paypal@yahoo.com
Transaction Amount:
$50.00 USD
Transaction Date:
Jul. 10, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PayPal Case ID:
PP-190-350-808
Reason for Dispute:
Non-Receipt
Chargeback Amount:
$50.00 USD
Chargeback Date:
Aug. 9, 2006
Status:
Reviewing Case
Status Details:
Our Chargeback Resolution Specialists will review the details of this transaction along with the information you provided to determine whether the chargeback may be successfully disputed against the buyer's credit card company. If you have evidence that would support your case that you have not yet submitted, please contact us as soon as possible by email or fax. Your Chargeback Resolution Specialist can be reached at chargeback-response@paypal.com. Our fax number is 402-537-5755.

It is PayPal's standard practice to dispute wrongful chargebacks. One of the benefits of using PayPal is that our team of chargeback specialists will gather the necessary information from you and work with the credit card company until the chargeback is resolved. Learn more about how PayPal investigates chargebacks.

Seller Comments:

Dispute History Log - Most Recent 4
The Dispute History Log displays all actions related to your claim.
Date Actor Action Details
Aug. 9, 2006 Seller Proof of refund provided
Aug. 9, 2006 PayPal Email sent to Seller
Aug. 9, 2006 PayPal Email sent to Buyer
Aug. 9, 2006 Buyer Chargeback initiated

[Frank]

Badgering each other isnt going to make things easier or is what we want on this site. I understand this is fustrating for each party.


Frank

[Lugert]

As it stands right now I am STILL out the $50.00

I will reply when paypal clears my account.

Thanks for your help in the matter Frank.

[Lugert]

8/19/2006, still not fixed.

This type of thing irritates me.

I think the buyer should not be allowed to buy or sell ever again on TM.com

[Frank]

Ed,
You need to provide us with a screenshot of your status much like Bryan did. We need to make sure the ball keeps rolling on BOTH sides. If you dont feel comfortable posting it public, then please e-mail it to at least myself.

THanks for the cooperation.


Frank

[Lugert]

Here is mine from two minutes ago, notice I included the clock/date in the lower right corner. (Still shows "reviewing case")

[Frank]

I have the screenshot from Ed.... its legit and we must now wait on Paypal.


Frank

[Lugert]

Still not a way to do business. (double dipping)

I would like to see what his end says.

[Lugert]

Well today is day 10 since I made my public complaint here on TM.com.

I do appreciate the help Frank has given thus far.

Still disappointed in the actions of the buyer and the length of time this has taken.

Oh, and my account STILL says "reviewing case".
I sent an e-mail off to paypal and they tell me to sit back and wait...How Nice. I guess I am at the mercy of the buyer and paypal.

Hard to believe a BUYER can screw a seller.

[Lugert]

I started looking into this a little further and here is what I found out.

1) If the chargeback does not get cancelled I will get a $10.00 service fee from Paypal, that would bring my total to $60.00 (to the negative).

2) I actually refunded the Money on August 3rd, took 5 days to clear because it was funds directly from my checking account. So on August 3rd he knew the refund was coming, yet proceeded to make a chargeback complaint on top of his paypal complaint. I find that troubling.

3) It has now been 3 weeks since I issued the full refund to him.

This does not sit well with me as you can tell.

[Frank]

I think you should call paypal and complain about him. I have wanted to maintain neutral on this subject, but since Ed has not responded since the 15th has me wondering how much he cares now. Ed if you read this... make it right.


Frnak

[Lugert]

I did call paypal, and e-mailed them.
They told me that he has to call his CC company and cancel the chargeback.
Paypal said that has NOT been done yet, and I should wait.

[Lugert]

edglock21 Last Activity: 08-15-2006 06:29 AM


At this point I would like him added to the list of people NOT to do business with.

:mad: :mad:

[Frank]

Bryan,
I just sent him an e-mail. He hasnt signed on since the 15th. No sense in taking the next step just yet until I hear from him in the next day.

Ed,
You need to take ACTIVE steps to clear this up.


Frank

[Lugert]

Sad. Why give him one more day, it has been 20 days since his last log-in.

IP check? New name perhaps?

20 days and he was mad about one weekend of me being gone?? What a crock!

[Frank]

Everything has been settled. Lost some information from the backups, but everyone is now happy and cleared up.