1973 Charger 5.2L

[BoostedDrummer]

Hey guys

Good friend of mine back home on base converted to Mopar:clap: He traded his 3rd gen Supra for a '73 Charger with a 318. Being a Dodge nut since I saw a Viper when I was 9, he asked me what he could do to open her up a bit. I don't know much about the older Mopars other than the experience I've learned with helping my dad on his '66 Fury III(440), so I told him what I basically know for starters from what we've done on the Fury.. which isn't much aside from an MSD ignition and a cleaner carberetor. Finding an intake for dual carbs for an RB440 is hard to come by apparently lol. I even mentioned that I have a supercharger (old lysholm type, diesel cat engine) back in Texas thats been cleaned up, but I dont know how much we can put on the 318 or if it would handle it.. so that idea is tabled.

What kind of info can I forward to get a little more kick out of the engine? He's found a Middle Georgia Mopar club that he wants to join in on but he's waiting for me to get home so we can both show up, him in the Charger and me in my Omni:nod:

[shackwrrr]

Typical v8 stuff, start with Carb, intake and headers then go to cam/Springs. After that stuff you are looking at rebuild, then its pistons, rods, ect.

[Khajjathefang]

150 shot :P

[fishcleaner]

If he is keeping the 318 I would recomend the Edelbrock Performer package, I've had good luck with that and my mpg went up.

[Khajjathefang]

couple of years ago, I think it was hot rod did a feature on building a budget/junkyard 318 with about 400 wheel. worth taking a google

[22shelby]

^^ that was for the magnum motor... yeah if you do a cam intake a good carb... (like proform or quick fuel etc) camshadft and if hes feeling froggy a set of heads.... now what will wake the whole car up alot is going to like a set of 3.73 gears ar even if its got enough trans, 4.10 gear... also beef up the trans... just a B&M shift kit will work wonders and if he can push the funds a bit more... and new converter... i had a coan 3800 stall in my76 cordoba and wow what a differance!!... the most single part differance i felt in that car...

[BoostedDrummer]

Do 340 heads interchange for the 318? I know the newer 318/360 in trucks are basically the same block. Also know, or have heard, that if a 383 was sourced then 400 and 440 heads can be put on there. This is a 318 though, I'll stop digressing:p How much would dual carbs and a tunnel ram do for it, or just a tunnel ram with a 650 or so work? Headers I'm sure can be sourced pretty easy and he said its already got dual glasspacks underneath. I want to say its an auto which suggests to me he may have the 727 torqueflite.

I've heard good things about purple comp cams, springs are something to be learned still. I've never had to work on freeing horsepower from V8's:D

[22shelby]

don't bother with dual quad unless you plan on 2 325 CFM 4 bbls... just a 600 or a 650... if he goes hirise id run the 650ish to fill the volume... you will be amazed what a good intake carb and a purple cam will do to that motor... im sure the 340 will bolt up as they are both LA blocks however i can't attest to if they work or work well on 318 cid....

[BoostedDrummer]

don't bother with dual quad unless you plan on 2 325 CFM 4 bbls... just a 600 or a 650... if he goes hirise id run the 650ish to fill the volume... you will be amazed what a good intake carb and a purple cam will do to that motor... im sure the 340 will bolt up as they are both LA blocks however i can't attest to if they work or work well on 318 cid....

Great info to know! Carbs are alien technology to me lol.

I also just read on Allpar.com that 360 heads bolted to the 318 block lowers the compression to 7.2:1, not very good for performance unless you get the block shaved. 7.2:1 would be ideal for supercharging though correct? Just pitching out ideas :)

[shackwrrr]

I think 340 heads keep the compression though but you need to notch the cylinder for valve clearance.

[22shelby]

Great info to know! Carbs are alien technology to me lol.

I also just read on Allpar.com that 360 heads bolted to the 318 block lowers the compression to 7.2:1, not very good for performance unless you get the block shaved. 7.2:1 would be ideal for supercharging though correct? Just pitching out ideas :)

or nitrous!!

[karlak]

Do 340 heads interchange for the 318?

The heads from a 340 will physically bolt on but the head chamber is huge ( open chamber ). Not a good combination. 318 is a reliable motor but will be pressed to move that big heavy car. 360 swap would be the way to go.

Actually I would go with the newer 5.7

[BoostedDrummer]

The heads from a 340 will physically bolt on but the head chamber is huge ( open chamber ). Not a good combination. 318 is a reliable motor but will be pressed to move that big heavy car. 360 swap would be the way to go.

Actually I would go with the newer 5.7

I've seen the new motors in the old cars. I dont think it's as cool or impressive as having an original motor in the car, but thats just me. Friend suggested putting one of the 5.7L's in it and its his decision ultimately lol. I'm guessing the 360 motor is out of the trucks? I only know of the 318, 340, 383, 400, 426, and 440 engines in the old muscles, never heard of a 360 being stock in a car.. unless I need to read more :/

[zin]

My .02. Install some better heads, either from a 360 (common) or a 340 (almost the same, but not common), next you'll need an intake that can keep up so I'd probably put an Edelbrock Performer RPM on with this carb: http://www.holley.com/0-80670.asp It's big enough to feed whatever the heads will do, and but the vacuum secondaries won't let it bog. It also has a bunch of "tricks" already done to it, like a quick (read easy) change secondary spring, so you can get it to "come on" like it ought to, if it doesn't already. Holley did a good job on this one.

You'll also want/need a cam/springs, nothing crazy here, it's just that the factory 318 cams are pathetic, but not quite as pathetic as the heads... Actually, for what it was intended to be, they work very well together, but for those that want power above 2500, they leave MUCH to be desired.

A good flowing exhaust/headers will round out the power-plant quite nicely, a pair of 2.5" pipes would probably be overkill, but I probably wouldn't go smaller than 2"...

Even after all these upgrades and the power you'll have, if the rear-end is numerically very low, it won't feel like much, so do check to see what's "out back"... I'd suggest something in the low "3s", 3.23:1, etc. 3.73:1 may get annoying if you drive at highway speeds much, unless you want to install an OD trans, then it's going to be much more liveable, and better mileage!



Finally, if it's still not quite fast enough, a mild shot of nitrous, say 50-100HP should put a big smile on your face...

Beyond this, the bottom end is going to not be happy, so a purposeful rebuild would be in order.

Mike

[turbovanman²]

I would NOT put any 340/360 heads on a 318, the bore is simply too small and it lowers the compression ratio into pathetic realm.

As above, the stock cam sucks so that has to go. If you want to put heads on, then put some Magnum 318 heads on, they flow and you'll retain your compression and you can get a kit to reuse your OE valve covers to keep the old look.

360's came in some cars and trucks, they virtually bolt in except IIRC, the passenger mount is offset but you can use the stock 318 one with some shims, I did that, lol and the TC is balanced differently so again, IIRC, you take the weight off the 318 converter or get a 360 converter.

[moparman76_69]

easy path is to ditch the 318 for a 360 or better a new hemi and a 4 speed auto. I'd dig up the hot rod article mentioned eariler. When you swap the cam, you'll have to do the springs anyway, and you might as well swap for some ported cast iron heads from aerohead (http://www.aeroheadracing.com/) (read indy cylinder head's budget line) and some sealed power flat tops to get the compression up. Run a performer RPM air-gap and a holley, rub some timing in its face and go.

[Force Fed Mopar]

5.9 Magnum, A500 trans, keep the efi. Cheap and easy to find, bolts in mostly. If its not enough, ported RHS heads and an M1 efi intake.

[spyder]

I'm assuming there's not a huge budget so I'd keep it simple . Provided the motor's still healthy do a freshen up valve job & mill the heads for a true 9:0 compression ratio , put something like a Comp 262 Extreme cam & advance it a few degrees , install a performer RPM (you might gasket match the intake port on the head) & throw a TQ on it (they're like free) then curve the distributor for 38 degrees total advance at around 2k & add a decent exhaust system . I'm guessing that car has an 8 1/4 axle so it shouldn't be too hard to j-yard a 3.5 or 3.9 ring & pinion .

It's hard to go very quick with such a heavy car & tiny engine, but a combo like this should be under a grand & get you in the 14's with a good tune.

If you have a bigger budget, F' it, do this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjsscD7nNdo

[turbovanman²]

If you have a bigger budget, F' it, do this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjsscD7nNdo

Bigger budget, I think that's the cheaper route, :eyebrows:

So screw any mods, just bolt on a turbo and some headers, better intake and be done with it, :evil:

[BoostedDrummer]

Bigger budget, I think that's the cheaper route, :eyebrows:

So screw any mods, just bolt on a turbo and some headers, better intake and be done with it, :evil:

That actually sounds more like us:D. Turbos are pretty much a must have with our cars lol, his 3rd gen supra was pretty awesome:nod:

So a 360 would probably be the preferred route for the car? Power wise and modification wise?

[BoostedDrummer]

For anyone wondering, this is the supercharger and stuffs in my garage back in Texas :)

41618

[turbovanman²]

That actually sounds more like us:D. Turbos are pretty much a must have with our cars lol, his 3rd gen supra was pretty awesome:nod:

So a 360 would probably be the preferred route for the car? Power wise and modification wise?

Depends on what you want, 360's make good power and torque, my fairly stock build 360-decked, 340 X heads, headers, dual plane, Edelbrock carb, RV cam, recurve dizzy, 2 1/4 dual exhaust with Flowmasters, made over 400 ft/lbs of torque at the back wheels thru an A518 with 3.3 gears but man does it guzzle gas, 10 mpg city, highway or combined, :(

Turbo would be fun and probably still be good on fuel if you need something that doesn't pass gas stations.

[zin]

The 360 is externally balanced, hence the difference in converter and damper, but if you bolt on the 360 heads, that's not a factor... The magnum heads are better, but they aren't as simple a mod due to the change in valvecovers and valve-train (they were used with roller lifters, etc).

The 318's ports are so small, while they give good low-end torque, they are pooched in no time, which is why I recommended the 360 heads.

I was also assuming low cost as a prime consideration, but, if money isn't the main factor, then the suggestion of swapping in a newer EFI V-8 and it's OD trans would be my 1st choice. Really it's the best of both worlds, you get a modern, fuel efficient, easy starting and powerful, right out of the box. But retain the coolness of a classic body style!

And nitrous is still an easy add-on!

Mike

[turbovanman²]

360 heads on a 318 is a waste of time and money, the gains, if any, aren't worth the hassle.

[zin]

360 heads on a 318 is a waste of time and money, the gains, if any, aren't worth the hassle.

Have you ever seen a 318 head next to a 360head? The ports are WAY bigger in the 360, and with a cam and intake will make much more power than anything you could do to a set of 318 heads. I'm not saying it's the end-all be-all of small block MOPAR heads, but they are a cheap, and easy upgrade to a 318, which is why the factory did just this on the uncommon 318 4bbl...

If you want compression, the latter TBI (non-Magnum) 318 heads are pretty much the 360 head with a heart-shaped combustion chamber, which is much smaller, but might raise the compression a little higher than desired... I don't recall the CCs for each...

BTW, to make the package work, it would require a decent cam, something like an "RV" cam, not much more than that though.

Mike

[turbovanman²]

Have you ever seen a 318 head next to a 360head? The ports are WAY bigger in the 360, and with a cam and intake will make much more power than anything you could do to a set of 318 heads. I'm not saying it's the end-all be-all of small block MOPAR heads, but they are a cheap, and easy upgrade to a 318, which is why the factory did just this on the uncommon 318 4bbl...

If you want compression, the latter TBI (non-Magnum) 318 heads are pretty much the 360 head with a heart-shaped combustion chamber, which is much smaller, but might raise the compression a little higher than desired... I don't recall the CCs for each...

BTW, to make the package work, it would require a decent cam, something like an "RV" cam, not much more than that though.

Mike

Of course I have, if you read my post, you'd have known this. The lack of compression and cylinder shrouding isn't worth it. The factory did do it as you said and it wasn't a great performer. If you must upgrade heads, as I said earlier, put on some Magnum 318 heads. I haven't seen the TBI non Magnum head your talking about or don't recall what they look like. I also don't think they'll raise the compression much if at all, the 318's were pretty low. I modded my 318 in my van with the basics but it was still a slouch, the 360 sure fixed that, :thumb:

[Kryp2nitE]

http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=271.0

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/viewall.html


(http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=271.0)

[turbovanman²]

http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=271.0

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/viewall.html


(http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=271.0)

I remember that Hot Rod article.

The only issue I have and the article noted it too is the high rpm for torque, not a street friendly engine or a good engine for towing/heavy 4x4 truck.


Despite all of the modifications to these engines, the torque figures for both builds were lower than that of a basically stock Dodge Magnum 5.9 (360) engine baseline dyno test done for a Mopar Muscle article (Magnum Muscle: Serious Bolt-On Power For Magnum Mills). The camshaft was the stock factory 5.9 cam used in Dodge trucks. The only modifications to the 5.9 were bolt-ons; a Mopar M1 single plane intake, a Barry Grant Mighty Demon 750 CFM carburetor and TTI headers. The 5.9 produced 345 HP at 4,600 RPM and 426 lb/ft of torque at 3,800 RPM - an average of 1,000 RPM lower than both 318 builds.

[BoostedDrummer]

Sooo where would the 360 come from if he just went that route? Pull it from a 5.9 truck like the one I have? Scrap the EFI and put the 318 intake and carb on it?

[Kryp2nitE]

Sooo where would the 360 come from if he just went that route? Pull it from a 5.9 truck like the one I have? Scrap the EFI and put the 318 intake and carb on it?

If you go magnum youll need a magnum m1 carb intake. The intake holes are at a different angle than the LA 318.

Like http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sinplanmag52.html

[karlak]

Sooo where would the 360 come from if he just went that route? Pull it from a 5.9 truck like the one I have? Scrap the EFI and put the 318 intake and carb on it?

Volare's, Aspen's, Diplomat's, Grand Furys, maybe Satellite?

Plenty of aftermarket intakes.


Drummer you back at Robbins?

[butchsuppe]

360 swap, 318 heads are a cork. Of a 440 would be better still.

[BoostedDrummer]

It seems like 360 is the way to go. If he wants to go crazy, I'm sure theres a stroker kit or something out there if he wants to stay carbed. But, he is a full out tuner and knows his stuff, so he might go with an EFI engine.


Drummer you back at Robbins?

Not for another few weeks or so, still bakin in the desert.. ugh..

[turbovanman²]

Sooo where would the 360 come from if he just went that route? Pull it from a 5.9 truck like the one I have? Scrap the EFI and put the 318 intake and carb on it?

Any older car or truck, van.

I would stick with Carb unless he likes to tune or you have tight emissions.

318 intake sucks and most are 2 bbl so that's a waste of time.

440's are getting hard to find and very heavy.

[22shelby]

you can get over 400 CID out of a LA stroker set up... just say'n but if he goes that route, he might as well just keep the 318 block and build that... throw a set of brodix heads on there and call it a day:thumb:

---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------


Any older car or truck, van.

I would stick with Carb unless he likes to tune or you have tight emissions.

318 intake sucks and most are 2 bbl so that's a waste of time.

440's are getting hard to find and very heavy.

B/RB motors are easy to find and can be quite light... ;)

http://www.worldcastings.com/products/engine-blocks/chrysler-big-blocks/440w-aluminum-block.html

[black86glhs]

Down in Georgia you should be able to find 360's laying in back yards!! LOL Anything but an 80s St Regis or Diplomat is going to have the 360 as available(RWD large cars here) and of course the trucks. The 360 came out in 1971 and was used til the early 2000's? Should be easy to find one.:thumb:

[22shelby]

true went till 2002.. however LA block was done in 91... 92 magnum motor came out...which obv is a far more superior design. but again... not too many parts inter change....if any...

[black86glhs]

true went till 2002.. however LA block was done in 91... 92 magnum motor came out...which obv is a far more superior design. but again... not too many parts inter change....if any...Good point. OK, stay below 91 to be a direct bolt in.:thumb:

[Kryp2nitE]

Is he thinking forced induction?
Ive got a set of low compression forged TRW's for a 360 I'd let go cheap.

My 74 was originally a 318, Schumacher makes swap mounts to go to a big block. If I could do it all over again I would have not gone with a 440.

[22shelby]

Good point. OK, stay below 91 to be a direct bolt in.:thumb:

i have often thought about a boosted magnum set up in a daytona but parts for the mag motor seem a bit pricey compaired to the LA motor parts... i was under the same impression that the mag were the same just MPFI... untill further digging and found even the deck height i believe is different...

the mag motors will drop right into the car, so if you go that route... grab everything... wire harness and all... personally id go this route... kind of a resto mod... old car with new tech (well as new of tech as the mag motor is)...

oh and a lil know fact... 360 magnum head flow BETTER than stock LS1 heads... the LS may have been touched by God, but God himself races a mopar as we all know...lol

[BoostedDrummer]

I've given him a link to this thread on Facebook, not sure if he's been able to see it as of yet though as I haven't seen any posts from him (on FB), in the end it's all up to him to what he wants to do. If he ends up sticking with his Toyota roots and drops a boosted 2JZ in, well, I can't talk him out of it:D


oh and a lil know fact... 360 magnum head flow BETTER than stock LS1 heads... the LS may have been touched by God, but God himself races a mopar as we all know...lol

:amen::clap::hail:

[DOHCRT]

What kind of info can I forward to get a little more kick out of the engine? He's found a Middle Georgia Mopar club that he wants to join in on but he's waiting for me to get home so we can both show up, him in the Charger and me in my Omni:nod:

Definately join this club, they are a great bunch of guys that appreciate all Mopars old and new...My cousin is a member; he has a 71 Demon I found for him in AZ, and a yellow SRT4 Neon. Look up George Dobney when you join the club...

[turbovanman²]

If he ends up sticking with his Toyota roots and drops a boosted 2JZ in, well, I can't talk him out of it:D



:amen::clap::hail:

That would be pretty sweet, :thumb:

[black86glhs]

I do like it when someone does the not so normal when it comes to engine/drivetrain swaps.

[turbovanman²]

I do like it when someone does the not so normal when it comes to engine/drivetrain swaps.

Either Hot Rod or Car Craft show cased an older Camaro, say 60's/70's that was owned by an Asian and yep, put a turbo 2JZ in there, man that edition got a lot of hate mail, :lol:

[Force Fed Mopar]

5.9 Magnum, A500 trans, keep the efi. Cheap and easy to find, bolts in mostly. If its not enough, ported RHS heads and an M1 efi intake.

:bump2:

[turbovanman²]

Video to said Camaro. I do like it but I don't like the sound, lol, prefer a V8 for that, :nod:


http://youtu.be/IZqtJTlXON8

[94GTC]

360 heads are 5cc larger. The added flow far outweighs the drop in CR. I had a set on a 318 with a cam a little larger than a 340 cam and it was a HUGE improvement. How many guys saying the 360 heads are not worth it actually had them on a 318? I did, and they work. The fast burn heads have a 302 casting# and will raise the cr around .5. With 1.88 intake and 1.6 exhaust valves, they can be ported to flow very well. The 5.9 magnum heads flow very well, and swapping in a 5.9 is not much harder than installing a carb intake for a magnum engine and installing a distributor.