Easy way to convert front to 114.3mm bolt pattern?

[ShelGame]

OK, so I have the early front knuckles on my car with minivan 10" brakes setup. I want to (maybe) convert to 114.3mm pattern on the front to make racing wheel choices easier. I need the proper front wheels to fit the M&H 24.5" slicks; the 15x6 Centerlines ain't cuttin' it. There are many used 15x7 and 15x8" centerlines with the correct backspace in that pattern. But, not in the 5x4" bolt pattern. I know the later minivan's used the bigger bolt pattern. Do those wheel bearings go on any TM knuckles? I know they won't fit the early knuckles.

[Vigo]

Any 91-up knuckle can have the caravan 5x114.3 bearing bolted in. 5x114.3 were only available as the 11" brakes. They use the same calipers and caliper brackets as the 11" 5x100 setup.

But if you swap on 91-up knuckles it will change your alignment. There ARE 89 and 90 5x114.3 vans and if you have a bolt in wheel bearing you could bolt in that wheel bearing, and you would probably just need the proper caliper brackets and the rotor since the caliper is probably the same.

So, 91-95 van parts, easy in junkyard but have to swap the whole knuckle and get it aligned. OR 89-90 grand van parts, not as easy to find so may have to buy new, but no need for alignment.

[turbovanman²]

Find an 89/90 Grand Caravan with 15" factory wheels and you have your bolt pattern. If you can't find one, then just find a 91+ Grand Caravan with 15" factory wheels and again, you have your bolt pattern-wheel bearing is a bolt on BUT if you use the van knuckle, the tie rod is drilled in a different spot and will shorten your turning radius. Redrill some 10" rotors if you want to keep the 10's, find some 10" calipers and brackets of any 91+ car. You'll change the geometetry a bit but some say that its a good change.

The other way is simply bolt on wheel adapters, I use them to space out my front wheels but you can get them to change bolt patterns, they work awesome, :nod:

[ShelGame]

Find an 89/90 Grand Caravan with 15" factory wheels and you have your bolt pattern. If you can't find one, then just find a 91+ Grand Caravan with 15" factory wheels and again, you have your bolt pattern-wheel bearing is a bolt on BUT if you use the van knuckle, the tie rod is drilled in a different spot and will shorten your turning radius. Redrill some 10" rotors if you want to keep the 10's, find some 10" calipers and brackets of any 91+ car. You'll change the geometetry a bit but some say that its a good change.

The other way is simply bolt on wheel adapters, I use them to space out my front wheels but you can get them to change bolt patterns, they work awesome, :nod:

NHRA doesn't allow wheel adapters...

Actually, shortening the turning radiius is not such a big deal. And, I assume it decreases the steering effort? Also not a bad thing since I don't have power steering...

[ShelGame]

Any 91-up knuckle can have the caravan 5x114.3 bearing bolted in. 5x114.3 were only available as the 11" brakes. They use the same calipers and caliper brackets as the 11" 5x100 setup.

But if you swap on 91-up knuckles it will change your alignment. There ARE 89 and 90 5x114.3 vans and if you have a bolt in wheel bearing you could bolt in that wheel bearing, and you would probably just need the proper caliper brackets and the rotor since the caliper is probably the same.

So, 91-95 van parts, easy in junkyard but have to swap the whole knuckle and get it aligned. OR 89-90 grand van parts, not as easy to find so may have to buy new, but no need for alignment.

Will the caliper brackets from the 'early' 10" Minivan brakes bolt onto the later knuckles? IE, can I use a '91 car knuckle, the minivan 114.3mm hubs/bearings, and the 10" brakes I already have? I don't want to 'go up' to 11" brakes if I don't have to.

[turbovanman²]

NHRA doesn't allow wheel adapters...

Actually, shortening the turning radiius is not such a big deal. And, I assume it decreases the steering effort? Also not a bad thing since I don't have power steering...

Bonus, :thumb:


Will the caliper brackets from the 'early' 10" Minivan brakes bolt onto the later knuckles? IE, can I use a '91 car knuckle, the minivan 114.3mm hubs/bearings, and the 10" brakes I already have? I don't want to 'go up' to 11" brakes if I don't have to.

Nope, 89/90 knuckles have the ears cast into the knuckle for the calipers, 91+ its bolt on brackets.

You don't have to go 11", you just need to mix and match to get what you want.

[ShelGame]

Bonus, :thumb:



Nope, 89/90 knuckles have the ears cast into the knuckle for the calipers, 91+ its bolt on brackets.

You don't have to go 11", you just need to mix and match to get what you want.

My knuckles have bolt-on brackets.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24238014/IMAG0245.jpg

You can see the top bolt in this pic; the bottom bolt is behind the strap...

[turbovanman²]

My knuckles have bolt-on brackets.


You can see the top bolt in this pic; the bottom bolt is behind the strap...

Correct, 90 and older 10" brakes got bolt on brackets, which aren't interchangeable with anything else. 11" setup got a one piece knuckle which you need to get the bolt on bearings. 91+ they made it easier, the knuckle is the same, just change the caliper and bracket to change rotor size.

[ShelGame]

OK, so I need to redo the whole front to covert to the big pattern. Not sure it's worth it...

[turbovanman²]

OK, so I need to redo the whole front to covert to the big pattern. Not sure it's worth it...

Yes and no lol.

[ShelGame]

Yes and no lol.

Well, I do need to figure out how to get 7" wide centerlines up front that have the correct offset. Right now, the wheels I have on there are only 6" wide (whcih isn't doing the 8.5" M&H any justice) with a 4" BS. So, I have ~1-1/2" gap to the strut and the tires rub the fender - and stick out 'in the wind'...

[rbryant]

The 89/90 and 91+ bolt in wheel bearings are interchangeable. :)

So you can put any wheel 5x100 or 5x114 hub/bearing into either.

John Trotter just did some work to machine an Intrepid rear spindle flat and bolt it to his lbody. That is the first 5x114 rear setup that I have seen.

-Rich

[ShelGame]

The 89/90 and 91+ bolt in wheel bearings are interchangeable. :)

So you can put any wheel 5x100 or 5x114 hub/bearing into either.

John Trotter just did some work to machine an Intrepid rear spindle flat and bolt it to his lbody. That is the first 5x114 rear setup that I have seen.

-Rich

I swapped to '89 Minivan knuckles, though (I think that's what they came from). The bearings don't bolt in, they have a steel retainer plate. So, I'd have to swap everything on the front end to get the big bolt pattern. If I can find a set of '91 knuckles cheap and local, I might do it. I can get bearigns no problem. But, I'd still have to put long studs on them, and maybe new brakes. So, I'm not sure that's going to be cheaper than just buying the Mopar Small Bolt Centerlines...

[cordes]

I swapped to '89 Minivan knuckles, though (I think that's what they came from). The bearings don't bolt in, they have a steel retainer plate. So, I'd have to swap everything on the front end to get the big bolt pattern. If I can find a set of '91 knuckles cheap and local, I might do it. I can get bearigns no problem. But, I'd still have to put long studs on them, and maybe new brakes. So, I'm not sure that's going to be cheaper than just buying the Mopar Small Bolt Centerlines...

The bearings alone will run you $120+. As Rich stated, Jon Trotter did this conversion. You're probably better off just buying the correct wheels.

[ShelGame]

The bearings alone will run you $120+. As Rich stated, Jon Trotter did this conversion. You're probably better off just buying the correct wheels.

Full retail, sure. I can get them much cheaper. But, even still, it's going to be cheaper and easier to get the 5x4" Centerlines...

[Vigo]

That is the first 5x114 rear setup that I have seen.

I redrilled a solid disc rear setup to 5x114.3 in '09. I believe i also stuck minivan rear drums (which are available 5x114.3) on a k-car rear axle in '09 as well.

[ShelGame]

I believe i also stuck minivan rear drums (which are available 5x114.3) on a k-car rear axle in '09 as well.

With what hub+spindle, though? The minivan spindle isn't a bolt-on to the car axle. The bolt pattern is bigger.

[Vigo]

I used the van spindle and just modified the holes. I didnt have easy access to proper tools at the time so i did it with a miter saw, but if you wanted it to look nice you could do it better than i did. LOL

[rbryant]

I swapped to '89 Minivan knuckles, though (I think that's what they came from). The bearings don't bolt in, they have a steel retainer plate. So, I'd have to swap everything on the front end to get the big bolt pattern. If I can find a set of '91 knuckles cheap and local, I might do it. I can get bearigns no problem. But, I'd still have to put long studs on them, and maybe new brakes. So, I'm not sure that's going to be cheaper than just buying the Mopar Small Bolt Centerlines...

I know that the 89 11" shelby daytona spindles had bolt in wheel bearings and the bearings are the same as the 91+ stuff. I thought that the 89 minivan 11" stuff (they had 11" stuff on the vans in 89 right?) was the same.

I might still have a set of powdercoated 91+ spindles in the garage that I could sell for a fair price if you go that route but you would still need bearings.. I also have the hawk brake pads for 91+ stuff for sale so I am biased towards it for multiple reasons.

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

I know that the 89 11" shelby daytona spindles had bolt in wheel bearings and the bearings are the same as the 91+ stuff. I thought that the 89 minivan 11" stuff (they had 11" stuff on the vans in 89 right?) was the same.

I might still have a set of powdercoated 91+ spindles in the garage that I could sell for a fair price if you go that route but you would still need bearings.. I also have the hawk brake pads for 91+ stuff for sale so I am biased towards it for multiple reasons.

-Rich

Nope, 10" 5x100 mini brakes are press in bearings, :(

I don't think 89 vans came with big brakes but I could be wrong, 90's for sure got big brakes and is the same bolt in wheel bearing as the Z and 91+ cars and 5x100 vans.

[Vigo]

I dont know 100% if 89 grand vans got 5x114.3, but i am 100% certain that 90s did as the 5x114.3 setup on the front of my aries came from a 90 grand.

[minigts]

Yeah, if you're looking to just do the front, the knuckles off the Daytonas (92 at least) will support interchanging the hubs from the AWD 5x114.3 hubs. When I did my conversion I swapped those jokers out in about 15 minutes per side. The rears are a different story. :) I still need to do a write up on those sometime.

[glhs727]

well, I have a couple sets of front 11" 5 x 114.3 crossdrilled rotors so if you do the conversion and need some rotors LMK! Vigo got a pair from me a while ago when he did his conversion, so I know they will work...

[ShelGame]

well, I have a couple sets of front 11" 5 x 114.3 crossdrilled rotors so if you do the conversion and need some rotors LMK! Vigo got a pair from me a while ago when he did his conversion, so I know they will work...

Do 15" wheels fit over 11" rotors? Or does that force 16" wheels?

[Vigo]

Yup, still got those rotors on that car. They really do make it look a little better.. hehe

[glhs727]

Do 15" wheels fit over 11" rotors? Or does that force 16" wheels?

depends.... the r/t's had 11" brakes with 15" snowflakes, but a 15" pizza wheel will rub the caliper

[Vigo]

The caliper only needs really minor grinding to fit the stock 15" wheels. Aftermarket would just depend on the wheel design.

[cordes]

depends.... the r/t's had 11" brakes with 15" snowflakes, but a 15" pizza wheel will rub the caliper

It is rumored that only one supplier's pizza wheels rub the caliper. I forget which ones, but that's what I hear. I know that I have had 15' pumpers, TRW, and I think pizza wheels on my Omni with 11" rears and no rubbing.

[minigts]

Do 15" wheels fit over 11" rotors? Or does that force 16" wheels?

I know that the Centurions didn't clear them, had to grind them down a bit, but nothing drastic.

[turbovanman²]

The pizza wheels with smooth holes won't clear, rough holes will clear or its the other way around, can't remember, been too long.

[minigts]

Rob, here is my write up. Cleaning out my old threads.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:5x100-to-5x114-3-Conversion-L-body

Updated, originally posted the wrong link.

[rbryant]

Rob, here is my write up. Cleaning out my old threads.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Brake-and-Wheel-Systems:5x100-to-5x114-3-Conversion-L-body

Updated, originally posted the wrong link.

I have a set of PT axle stubs that look very similar to the stubs you made.
They also have the wider bolt pattern....

I wonder if they would fit the intrepid stuff so you don't have to machine the stub.

-Rich

[minigts]

I have a set of PT axle stubs that look very similar to the stubs you made.
They also have the wider bolt pattern....

I wonder if they would fit the intrepid stuff so you don't have to machine the stub.

-Rich

Can you post pics of the stubs? I'd like to know if this would work, would make it easier on a conversion.

[rbryant]

Can you post pics of the stubs? I'd like to know if this would work, would make it easier on a conversion.

There are a few pics here:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?53183-91-Spirit-rear-brakes-on-lbody&p=734155&viewfull=1#post734155

They fit the Neon hubs but not sure if the intrepid hubs are the same fitment or not.

-Rich