Personal best of the year, got to race a Porsche, muhahhha!

[turbovanman²]

At the Mission Street Legals again, Blue Shadow is with me, he's late, I get there around 6:15, its dead for us, I get card #96, so I figure we'll get alot of runs in, there was more last week and I got 12+. She's still a portly 3525 lbs, 3700 with me in it.

Anyhow, 18psi still-haven't touched my boost all year, I want a 13 at this boost level. Alky fixed and a 14 gph nozzle, US 92 octane, Toluene and cams advanced 2 deg-stock head doesn't like to rev so might as well use the grunt down low, tuning all week and reloaded it the other night, seemed to fix all my little gremlins.

Line up, can't build boost, launch, crap 60 ft, hit 2nd gear, dies and catch's, WTF? Run a 15.3@84, :banghead: I keep getting a code 13 so it has to be my MAP, I was going to try Jeff's when he showed up.

Play with the staging limiter, go back out, a little better in boost but again cut's out going down the track, but run a 14.7@94.

Mega downtime tonight, slow, slow, slow, like watching paint dry, finally get back up almost 45 mins later-remember, small crowd tonight? staging limiter adjusted, no boost, 2.3 60 ft, 14.9@94.

Adjust it again, over an hour goes by, we get back up, this time my wife comes with me, she loved it, a bit of boost, ran a 2.2 60ft and 14.7@91 mph.

So getting upset that I can't build boost, so I mess around with it in the pits and finally get it work how I want, then we have to wait, dew point setting in, sigh. Finally they give us the go ahead, another hour gone by, :censored:

I am in the staging area, a new Porsche almost side by side, no idea what model as I don't keep up current affairs on them, we pull up to the volunteer and I discreetly ask him to line me up with the Porsche, he says yes, I laugh. Its our turn, Porsche hesitates, then goes, I do a nice burnout, stage, he takes his time, I am building boost and trying to hold her back, she's creeping, don't let me red light I pray, finally we go, I tree him, .291 to his .656, I cut a 1.9 to his 2.1, I can't see him, but I know he's coming and finally he comes screaming by, I run a 13.9@94 to his 11.98@128, he sped down pit lane and left right after that, lol. The pits were pretty wild even though he beat me, :lol:

I hit my 13, I couldn't be happier and I think she has more in her, the stock head is really holding me back, so I figure I can hit mid 13's or if I am lucky, low 13's at 18 psi with some more time, but time isn't on my side, maybe 4 Friday's left if the weather holds. Also having trouble with my WOT shifts, it won't shift when I want it to.

Had a crowd around her, lots of "this thing is awesome" :D

Wife recorded it with her iPhone-


http://youtu.be/7UMcUuJZzaU

Porsche vid-sorry for the crap quality, my kids lost the latch off my GoPro, so I have to use tape, :(


http://youtu.be/86sD9mvV4lU

[wheming]

Those shifts do sound weird. Are you just letting it shift in auto?
Maybe it is just the video but it sounds like a lot of flare during the shift.

The way the current tranny in MeanMini is set kinda loose, so i always shift it manually. The replacement i have ready is a RMVB. I hope i can get used to shifting reverse after two years of forward manual shifting!



my android sent this for me using Tapatalk...

[Directconnection]

How is the stock head holding you back? Larry made 500whp on a stock head and many others have made big power on the stock head. Not being sarcastic, but your tuning is holding you back. 13.9 on 18psi I will give you credit for getting closer than you ever have :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

hard to tell but it's either a Turbo or a Gt3 and he lifts off after he passes you way before the lights. Congrats on the 13s. I'd concentrate on your launching and getting the trans to shift correctly. Love the Pro-tree mission runs. Do they handicap the red light or is a .000 a perfect light?

[BadAssPerformance]

Good to see it is running better!

[turbovanman²]

How is the stock head holding you back? Larry made 500whp on a stock head and many others have made big power on the stock head. Not being sarcastic, but your tuning is holding you back. 13.9 on 18psi I will give you credit for getting closer than you ever have :thumb:

Of course its holding me back, the head is good for a 2.2 but not a 2.5, it simply will not rev past 6k, my ported head would bury the tach and still feel good doing it. Just like a stock 2.2 8 valve will rev to what, 6500 whereas the same setup 2.5 is done around 5600 rpm. Sure Larry made 500 whp but I can too if i want to push through 40+ boost, but I don't, see the difference? :p I don't recall anyone else making that kind of power on a stock TIII?

Tuning isn't holding me back, time is, I am being patient and tuning slowly, there isn't much more I can do at 18 psi, time to start turning it back up.


hard to tell but it's either a Turbo or a Gt3 and he lifts off after he passes you way before the lights. Congrats on the 13s. I'd concentrate on your launching and getting the trans to shift correctly. Love the Pro-tree mission runs. Do they handicap the red light or is a .000 a perfect light?

Its a turbo, I don't think he lifted but who knows, he ran 11's all night, just running street tires.
Agreed, need to build more boost and get the trans to shift when I want.
Not sure if they handicap it or not, I usually don't care about reaction times but this time I wanted to nail it without red lighting, lol.


Good to see it is running better!

Thanks, still have gremlins to work out but getting there.

[shayne]

thats cool, so if i get mine done i can try to go porsche hunting too.. thats awesome. probably nothing more emasculating for a guy in a spendy sports car being given a good run by a rusty 20 yr old vehicle that takes him off of the line like that. he may have gone home to think it over, over a glass of 60yr old champagne and a boiled faberge egg.

[ForzaV12]

thats cool, so if i get mine done i can try to go porsche hunting too.. thats awesome. probably nothing more emasculating for a guy in a spendy sports car being given a good run by a rusty 20 yr old vehicle that takes him off of the line like that. he may have gone home to think it over, over a glass of 60yr old champagne and a boiled faberge egg.

First, great run TVM! Gotta love the van.
Second, trust me, the guy in the Porsche isn't "emasculated" by the run, he didn't run home to "think about it" and if he cracked open a bottle of the good stuff it was probably to share with a beautiful woman-not to forget about a minivan.

[turbovanman²]

Be nice, don't spoil the dream, :p

My son was wearing that shirt you had made, mine are a bit too small these days, :( :lol:

Would love to rematch him when I turn the boost up, will be a closer race, :nod:

[Khajjathefang]

Of course its holding me back, the head is good for a 2.2 but not a 2.5, it simply will not rev past 6k, my ported head would bury the tach and still feel good doing it. Just like a stock 2.2 8 valve will rev to what, 6500 whereas the same setup 2.5 is done around 5600 rpm. Sure Larry made 500 whp but I can too if i want to push through 40+ boost, but I don't, see the difference? :p I don't recall anyone else making that kind of power on a stock TIII?

Tuning isn't holding me back, time is, I am being patient and tuning slowly, there isn't much more I can do at 18 psi, time to start turning it back up.



Its a turbo, I don't think he lifted but who knows, he ran 11's all night, just running street tires.
Agreed, need to build more boost and get the trans to shift when I want.
Not sure if they handicap it or not, I usually don't care about reaction times but this time I wanted to nail it without red lighting, lol.



Thanks, still have gremlins to work out but getting there.

By this logic its the crank that's holding you back :P

[ForzaV12]

Be nice, don't spoil the dream, :p

My son was wearing that shirt you had made, mine are a bit too small these days, :( :lol:

Would love to rematch him when I turn the boost up, will be a closer race, :nod:

;) no worries, the dream is alive! I just was looking at the van artwork the other day and played around with it-send me a pm with your address and "new size" and I'll send you one.

[shayne]

actually i think my estimation is right considering i see the guys that own these cars around here. a guy that shows up in his porsche and runs most of the night and then races off the track and then takes off for the night after a race with a minivan tells anyone that he wasnt happy about racing. he probably got upset, left the playground took his marbles home. probably to his gold digging wife or gang wife, in his 3000 sq/ft palace in vancouver that was bought with drug money or paid for by mommy and daddy from mainland china.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

theres no old money in vancouver, its foreign or gang related.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Be nice, don't spoil the disillusion, :p

There fixed it for you :)

[turbovanman²]

;) no worries, the dream is alive! I just was looking at the van artwork the other day and played around with it-send me a pm with your address and "new size" and I'll send you one.

Thanks, but it needs a redesign, I'll have to think of something, :p



actually i think my estimation is right considering i see the guys that own these cars around here. a guy that shows up in his porsche and runs most of the night and then races off the track and then takes off for the night after a race with a minivan tells anyone that he wasnt happy about racing. he probably got upset, left the playground took his marbles home. probably to his gold digging wife or gang wife, in his 3000 sq/ft palace in vancouver that was bought with drug money or paid for by mommy and daddy from mainland china.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

theres no old money in vancouver, its foreign or gang related.

Exactly.


There fixed it for you :)

Not at all, :p Most of the sports car owners around here have ego's bigger than the White House so lining up with a van is an insult, especially when your beaten by one to the 1/8th mile, or beaten by one IE the Viper, they both acted pretty well the same except the Viper guy stayed around for one more race then left, :faint: :lol:

I go to have a good time, if I beat someone or whatever, doesn't matter, but it is funny the way they act. :D

[ForzaV12]

actually i think my estimation is right considering i see the guys that own these cars around here. a guy that shows up in his porsche and runs most of the night, wins every race he's in and then races off the track and then takes off for the night after a race with a minivan tells anyone that he was bored with the racing. He probably got hungry, left the playground took his really nice car home- probably to his smoking hot wife or girlfriend, in his 3000 sq/ft palace in vancouver that I wished I owned. Probably got back into that nice car and went out for an equally nice dinner, then home for a nightcap with the hottie.
Theres no money for me in vancouver, so I'll just assume its foreign or gang related.


fixed

[Directconnection]

Sure Larry made 500 whp but I can too if i want to push through 40+ boost, but I don't, see the difference? :p I don't recall anyone else making that kind of power on a stock TIII?

Tuning isn't holding me back, time is, I am being patient and tuning slowly, there isn't much more I can do at 18 psi, time to start turning it back up.



Larry did it on 29-30psi. Not 40+

[black86glhs]

LOL....That was funny Forza.:D

[Vigo]

Of course its holding me back, the head is good for a 2.2 but not a 2.5, it simply will not rev past 6k,

If it EVER made 500whp anywhere, it can do it on your van too.. The displacement is just going to change the RPM it happens at, if anything. Displacement is not going to lower the HP potential of the head.

The Porsche probably wasnt lifting if it trapped 128. Thats about right for a stock turbo. Even 500whp in the van isnt going to really get it close to that, though. I doubt the Porsche guy was too upset, either. He probably really WAS bored making more than 1 pass in a stock, bought-not-built sports car on a drag strip. It's just going to do the same thing over and over that you can't take much if any credit for, so where's the fun? Maybe he realized that and went to try out the stability control on a TURN.

94 is a crazy low trap for 13.9. Something is definitely wrong in the higher rpms but i dont think it's cylinder head related... What was your 1/8th mile mph?

[turbovanman²]

By this logic its the crank that's holding you back :P

Sure!!! :(


Larry did it on 29-30psi. Not 40+

Sure about that?

Anyhow, if you must keep bringing it up- 5 speed vs auto, better IC vs mine, 2.2 vs 2.5, his turbo was larger than mine, his powerband sucked-nothing down low then BAM, all at once. Not here to argue semantics but I'd rather have mine with a nicer powerband. If you want, we can bring up Lugert who made stupid power on his 8 valve with stock everything, large turbo and ton's of boost-no fun in that.

[turbovanman²]

If it EVER made 500whp anywhere, it can do it on your van too.. The displacement is just going to change the RPM it happens at, if anything. Displacement is not going to lower the HP potential of the head.

The Porsche probably wasnt lifting if it trapped 128. Thats about right for a stock turbo. Even 500whp in the van isnt going to really get it close to that, though. I doubt the Porsche guy was too upset, either. He probably really WAS bored making more than 1 pass in a stock, bought-not-built sports car on a drag strip. It's just going to do the same thing over and over that you can't take much if any credit for, so where's the fun? Maybe he realized that and went to try out the stability control on a TURN.

94 is a crazy low trap for 13.9. Something is definitely wrong in the higher rpms but i dont think it's cylinder head related... What was your 1/8th mile mph?

I can do it and I have been every close based on et and traps but again, anyone can push lots of boost thru stock everything, makes for a crappy powerband.

Yes, the head is my cork, its proven 2.5's need more air and in another thread its been proven by Rob simply going from a 2.2 to a 2.5, it signs off at 5000 vs 6000+ with the 2.2. Displacement WILL lower potential as bigger cubes need more airflow, simple math. I probably make more power down low but then makes for a crappy powerband engine. Again, with a ported head on the same bottom end, it easily pulls to 6500-7500.

Trap speeds, again, van's trap low, again, proven time and time again. Ran I ran my 12's, I ran a whopping 104/105 mph, Corby ran 12.2@109, Terry ran 11.76@115, most cars are trapping 115 running 12's. 1/8th mile info was 8.8@78 mph, Porsche was 8.0@99.5 mph. My 1/8 mile info on the mid 12's is 8.0@86 mph.

Maybe the Porsche wasn't trying, maybe he wasn't upset but when you go flying up pit lane-HUGE no no and will get you kicked out, then goes flying down the pits and leaves, makes you wonder. In the past, any decent expensive car has been pissed lining up with me and more pissed if I beat him or keep with them so its a good guess the metrosexual wasn't too happy. If he didn't care, so be it. Makes for a good story either way which you guys love to pick apart. If your so concerned about him, go race him yourself and make up your own story or go interview him.

Here's Larry's vid-


http://youtu.be/omboXDK3ysg

[Vigo]

Displacement WILL lower potential as bigger cubes need more airflow, simple math.

No it wont, it will just move the SAME amount of air at a lower rpm. In your example of the 2.5 and 2.2 dying off at different rpms, they are probably making pretty much the same power at those two rpms.

I basically agree with you that your 2.5 tIII is going to die off pretty quick at 6k with stock head and cams. But it's NOT your 94mph problem. You're only gaining 16mph in the last 1/8th. I would check your slips from times when you felt like the top end was better, and see if you didnt gain more than 16mph in the second half. You have some kind of problem that is hurting your high rpm power. I dont know what it is but i REALLY doubt it's the head. Maybe im wrong, but i doubt if you look at ANY 94 mph or 13 second slips posted on this forum, that any of them are only gaining 16mph in the second half.

[turbovanman²]

If the head is maxed out or close to it and then you add cubes, your choking a chicken, you can't get around that.

As for my traps speeds, van's have always been slow, not to mention I am the heaviest out there. It simply stops pulling at 62/6300 on my tach, it just signs off, see yah, but pulls cleanly to that rpm, so if I can get it to shift at 6K, that will help big time. I am going to run my manual valve body on Friday just so I can max it out that night as its most likely my last one of the year, unless we get a good October.
I just turned up the boost tonight for shitts and giggles and 3 psi made a huge difference so we'll see on Friday what happens if I turn it up.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I don't believe that a head that flows 60+cfm more than my 8v head is maxed out at 18psi. 60cfm extra on a 2.5 should allow the thing to rev way higher than 6grand.

[turbovanman²]

I don't believe that a head that flows 60+cfm more than my 8v head is maxed out at 18psi. 60cfm extra on a 2.5 should allow the thing to rev way higher than 6grand.

Not sure what to say, ported head revs, non ported head it doesn't?

[1BADVAN]

Not sure what to say, ported head revs, non ported head it doesn't?

What does your timing curve look like compared to the ported head timing? I haven't found the sweet spot, between power and detonation, but I definitely noticed it rev better with more upper end timing. The stock swirl curve stops adding timing over like 5200 rpm maybe that T3 head could take a bit more hig RPM Timing??

[tinyturbo]

Nice runs, Im not sure how your power is dropping off at 6k my 16 v with stock cams will bang off the rev limiter at will wich is 7k with a 2.5 ltr and im pretty sure the stock cams on a t3 are more aggressive so i would have to agree that somthing is not right, and im not baggin on you just trying to help you figure it out, ive always suspected the t3 intake was rather poor looking without much plenum area and small runners, i would suspect the cam timing being off you should be trapping 108-110 at least.

[turbovanman²]

What does your timing curve look like compared to the ported head timing? I haven't found the sweet spot, between power and detonation, but I definitely noticed it rev better with more upper end timing. The stock swirl curve stops adding timing over like 5200 rpm maybe that T3 head could take a bit more hig RPM Timing??

I had to add way more timing with the stock head vs the ported head, still playing but right now, the timing is maxed out for pump, toluene and alky. I tried 20 psi last night on alky and 92 pump and it rattled.


Nice runs, Im not sure how your power is dropping off at 6k my 16 v with stock cams will bang off the rev limiter at will wich is 7k with a 2.5 ltr and im pretty sure the stock cams on a t3 are more aggressive so i would have to agree that somthing is not right, and im not baggin on you just trying to help you figure it out, ive always suspected the t3 intake was rather poor looking without much plenum area and small runners, i would suspect the cam timing being off you should be trapping 108-110 at least.

Stock TIII cams are tame, I have stage 1 cams so they can make some good power. I think that's my issue, they let the head breath and add a 2.5 in the mix and it just can't. Everyone who runs stage 1's has a ported head.

Intake is modified with a 58mm t/b.

If I trap those MPH's, I'll be running low 12's, its a VAN, :p

[Rrider]

What would you trap if you took out the windshield and all the rest of the glass? :P

If you're ever in socal I've got one you can beat on gopro. All of em aren't quick like that one you ran!

[turbovanman²]

What would you trap if you took out the windshield and all the rest of the glass? :P

If you're ever in socal I've got one you can beat on gopro. All of em aren't quick like that one you ran!

And the seats, carpet, heater box, dash, insulation, trailer hitch, stereo, console, a/c lol.

If I ever make it down there, sounds fun, :nod:

[Rrider]

Didn't mean weight.. improving aero by not making the air go around the cabin!

Some of the slower Porsches run 14's.

[turbovanman²]

Oh, lol, it has more to do with the brick front and the mass doesn't help either.

14's, that would be so fun, :nod:

[Directconnection]

Not sure what to say, ported head revs, non ported head it doesn't?

What was the difference in cams you used? Both the ported and stock head used BONE STOCK cams? If so... EXACT dead-bag cam timing?

I am glad to see that your 94mph isn't on your high boost setting like the days of old.... but 94mph with that setup should yield more ,mph even with a van. How much? Not really a boatload more.... but I'd think knocking on 100mph's door would be about right?

Again, I do commend you as it sounds like you're close to having it in the ballpark :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

What was the difference in cams you used? Both the ported and stock head used BONE STOCK cams? If so... EXACT dead-bag cam timing?

I am glad to see that your 94mph isn't on your high boost setting like the days of old.... but 94mph with that setup should yield more ,mph even with a van. How much? Not really a boatload more.... but I'd think knocking on 100mph's door would be about right?

Again, I do commend you as it sounds like you're close to having it in the ballpark :thumb:

The ported head and stage II cams would easily pull to 7500, the ported head and stock cams would sign off around 6500-but sign off smoothly, stock and stage 1 cams is done around 6300 rpm and now, no real give, I'd say 58-6300 not much is going on. I degree the cams every time and the marks I make are all fairly close so that part is right.

94 mph is really about right for a van, seriously. Yes its low but we have a ton of weight to move and don't forget, I am geared very tall, about 2.98 overall gear ratio. I am sure if it would rev better I could get the MPH up. I have a hunch I know what could be the problem but I'll check it first before posting up.

Thanks, she's getting fun again. :nod:

[turbovanman²]

Vigo, A.J. ran 15.0@88, so my times aren't that far off, :eyebrows:

[Vigo]

Yeah and he gained 16mph in the 2nd half while trapping 6mph less.. What was your 1/8th mph on the 99mph run you just did?

[turbovanman²]

Yeah and he gained 16mph in the 2nd half while trapping 6mph less.. What was your 1/8th mph on the 99mph run you just did?

My reply was more tongue in cheek but my 1/8 mile info is 9.32@81 mph. Looked at his, he ran a 9.4@72 so even though I left with no boost, its pulling big time. That 4 psi of boost made a huge difference, too bad it was down 2 cylinders, :faint:

[RoadWarrior222]

Those shifts do sound weird. Are you just letting it shift in auto?
Maybe it is just the video but it sounds like a lot of flare during the shift.yah, don't sound right, low apply pressure? Fluid aeration? forgot to crank up line pressure when that VB went in? Glazed frictions from locking it up with the RMVB?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Try upping the timing a little above 5k, or try retarding the exhaust cam.

[turbovanman²]

yah, don't sound right, low apply pressure? Fluid aeration? forgot to crank up line pressure when that VB went in? Glazed frictions from locking it up with the RMVB?

Already explained it and after I fixed the small issues I had, it pulled cleanly to 6300, I'll post a vid of my 99 mph run, its shifts mucho nicer. The RMVB was in for 10 secs, and this run was done before I put it in.


Try upping the timing a little above 5k, or try retarding the exhaust cam.

Can't add anymore timing, maxed out as it is but I think with the intake piping and SDS done, it fixed itself. Off season after I fix it, going to play with cam timing.