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View Full Version : 2.0 sohc swap.



thedon809
07-31-2012, 08:19 PM
Alright. I have a 90 daytona 2.5 tbi auto that I'm trying to sell. If I can't get rid of it, I also have my DD 98 neon sohc 5 speed. The daytona has a knock and a poopoo auto. The neon has a great engine that burns no oil and a good t350 that doesn't grind, but the body is rotting away. See where I'm going here? I would have a budget of about a grand. Here are the questions.
The pass side mount should bolt right up, correct? Daytona has the later style mount.
What about the tranny mount? Has anyone put a t350 in a TD?
TD pedal assembly or neon?
Neon axles work?
Isn't the neon fuel pump the same/similar?
I would want to swap the entire engine wiring harness and pcm along with the cluster. The neon has working a/c and p/s so I would like to get those working as well.
Any thoughts, suggestions?

RoadWarrior222
07-31-2012, 08:30 PM
Won't be all the same, but try looking up SRT-4 swaps for some clues and hybrid head swaps for others (like how to make neon head work in a TM)

cordes
07-31-2012, 09:40 PM
For a grand just buy a Neon R/T, combine your parts and be done with it.

thedon809
07-31-2012, 10:33 PM
I can't find any decent ones around here. Already tried.

Vigo
08-01-2012, 12:31 AM
Personally i think this swap will require a lot of effort for fairly bad results. Unless you are ok with ending up with a motor-swapped 16 second car. I did have a sohc/5spd stratus for a short time that was fairly peppy, but those came with the 3.92 trans.

But on the bright side, once you get a running 2.0 SOHC in there you're like 90% of the way to having a 2.4 DOHC running in there, so thats good.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is how do you manage the hydraulic clutch?

cordes
08-01-2012, 01:09 AM
Personally i think this swap will require a lot of effort for fairly bad results. Unless you are ok with ending up with a motor-swapped 16 second car. I did have a sohc/5spd stratus for a short time that was fairly peppy, but those came with the 3.92 trans.

But on the bright side, once you get a running 2.0 SOHC in there you're like 90% of the way to having a 2.4 DOHC running in there, so thats good.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is how do you manage the hydraulic clutch?

I thought all of the T350s were cable actuated?

rbryant
08-01-2012, 02:40 AM
I thought all of the T350s were cable actuated?

1G Neons were cable, 2G were hydraulic. The bellhousings can be swapped.

-Rich

Dodge Aries K
08-01-2012, 02:44 AM
2000 m/y 2nd gens were still cable clutch.

Vigo
08-02-2012, 01:39 AM
Silly me, i keep forgetting.


I thought all of the T350s were cable actuated?

Well, not ALL. I just forgot which ones. afaik all the dsm t350s were hydraulic back to 95. The stratus i owned was cable so i guess all 1g cloud cars were cable.

chryguy
08-02-2012, 04:22 AM
Hub side of the axles are different.

Neon is an inch. 1.0

TM is about .012 larger on the hub side. If you set them side by side it's easy to see the Neon axle stub is smaller.
So approximately 1.012

Trans side looks to be the same between the two axles.
About .007-8 larger than an inch or 1.0075

So, your TM axles should plug into the Neon trans...

I can post pictures if wanted...I can also compare axle lengths for the un-equal length axles if you want.

CG

thedon809
08-02-2012, 06:28 PM
Personally i think this swap will require a lot of effort for fairly bad results. Unless you are ok with ending up with a motor-swapped 16 second car. I did have a sohc/5spd stratus for a short time that was fairly peppy, but those came with the 3.92 trans.

But on the bright side, once you get a running 2.0 SOHC in there you're like 90% of the way to having a 2.4 DOHC running in there, so thats good.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is how do you manage the hydraulic clutch?The goal of this setup would be MPG and good reliability once all the kinks are ironed out. Bingo on a 2.4 being easy peasy if I come across one cheap.

Vigo
08-03-2012, 12:34 AM
Saw the pics in the for sale thread. Car looks pretty good.. you can piece a decent interior together. I like the swap idea better now that ive seen the car. Cant really explain that. lol.

ShelGame
08-03-2012, 08:35 AM
Fuel systems are different. Neon used a returnless fuel system. The pump, regulator, filter, etc are in the tank. So, you'll have to modify the Neon fuel rail to have a return; or modify the fuel tank in the Daytona to use the Neon fuel pump module.

RoadWarrior222
08-03-2012, 09:25 AM
Yah, depends which way you're going here, complete neon electronics transplant or running the motor with a dizzy adapter and a modded TM cal.

Don't know if you could do something like adapt a late 'tona dash to work with the neon stuff or nor, or whether you'll have to kludge that in too.

thedon809
08-03-2012, 07:50 PM
I'm thinking swap everything. Engine harness, interior harness, cluster.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

I just looked at the neons cluster and compared it to the Daytona. It looks smaller so it should fit in there.

shadow88
08-03-2012, 08:48 PM
In my opinion, A neon will net you better mpg based on a significant weight difference. Though you have a rusty one with a decent powerplant, I would look to find another neon of similar year that needs a drivetrain. As said earlier, it's lots of work to do all that stuff to a daytona with the intensions of better mpgs

cordes
08-03-2012, 11:19 PM
In my opinion, A neon will net you better mpg based on a significant weight difference. Though you have a rusty one with a decent powerplant, I would look to find another neon of similar year that needs a drivetrain. As said earlier, it's lots of work to do all that stuff to a daytona with the intensions of better mpgs

My 2.2 TII daytona got 36mpgs with just the cat removed. My Neon SOHC ATX coupe with L body transfer gears gets 37-38MPGs. I wonder if the 2.0 would have the torque to get better MPGs at all in a Daytona? I know the 2.5 turbo can get over 40mpgs on the freeway in a 2700lb. car with the right tires and trans.

thedon809
08-03-2012, 11:20 PM
I dont think a base model daytona weighs that much more than a 1g neon. I'm guessing within 200lbs. A 2.0 5spd in a Daytona should get much better mpg than a 2.5 TBI auto.

cordes
08-04-2012, 12:35 AM
I dont think a base model daytona weighs that much more than a 1g neon. I'm guessing within 200lbs. A 2.0 5spd in a Daytona should get much better mpg than a 2.5 TBI auto.

IIRC my neon weighs 2450. I'm willing to bet even a stripper Daytona is more than 2650.

Mopar318
08-04-2012, 08:03 AM
2000 m/y 2nd gens were still cable clutch.

Dont reviel my secrets!

2000 also uses the heavy duty gearset/input shaft and stronger case. Its rated for a whopping 150 ft lbs.

thedon809
08-04-2012, 01:53 PM
IIRC my neon weighs 2450. I'm willing to bet even a stripper Daytona is more than 2650.I remember the title for my 86 turboz cs saying 2600ish. Don't know how accurate title's are for weight. The t350 should be a good bit lighter than the a413 though.

Vigo
08-04-2012, 05:29 PM
Never weighed a t350 but the difference between an auto full of fluid and a manual is less than 40 lbs in the k-cars iirc. There's 30-40 more lbs in the converter full of fluid but then you'd have to count the flywheel and clutch weight in the manual and i dont think its very much less. Realistically it might be a 50 lb difference.

I think it's a workable idea. There's no way id keep the neon gauge cluster though. It's extremely likely that if you just feed the daytona cluster the signals from the neon harness it will work. Most of the signals are probably the same.

INVUJerry
07-20-2013, 12:04 PM
Just wondering if anyone got farther with this? I have a spare neon sohc 2.0, ecu, and harness, and the 2.5 TBI in my Reliant is on it's way out. Figure a 2.0 sohc with a 95 cam would make it pleasant to drive and a 3.55 5-speed transmission would get me great MPG, even if it's in a box.

thedon809
07-20-2013, 01:12 PM
I junked that Daytona and kept the 2.5. I traded the neon for my 300m.

Vigo
07-20-2013, 03:00 PM
Just wondering if anyone got farther with this? I have a spare neon sohc 2.0, ecu, and harness, and the 2.5 TBI in my Reliant is on it's way out. Figure a 2.0 sohc with a 95 cam would make it pleasant to drive and a 3.55 5-speed transmission would get me great MPG, even if it's in a box.

I think it would be great. The aries only weighs MAYBE 200 lbs more than a neon at most (it's possible to weigh the same or even less..), and for an economical cruiser i think it would work fantastic.. BUT: using the t350 over a k-car trans is making a lot of work for yourself. The trans mount, bobble strut mount, and pass side axle will all become issues. The drivers side axle may or may not depending on how you do your mounts. If you were to swap the aries to a k-car 5spd, you could just bolt the 2.0 to it, mod the front mount a little and make a passenger side mount, and just be done!

cordes
07-20-2013, 03:14 PM
I think it would be great. The aries only weighs MAYBE 200 lbs more than a neon at most (it's possible to weigh the same or even less..), and for an economical cruiser i think it would work fantastic.. BUT: using the t350 over a k-car trans is making a lot of work for yourself. The trans mount, bobble strut mount, and pass side axle will all become issues. The drivers side axle may or may not depending on how you do your mounts. If you were to swap the aries to a k-car 5spd, you could just bolt the 2.0 to it, mod the front mount a little and make a passenger side mount, and just be done!

Out SOHC ATX neon weight almost exactly 2550lbs. It has AC and manual windows and locks.

Vigo
07-21-2013, 02:38 AM
When i weighed my 89 aries 4dr 5spd with full interior and sub boxes i think it weighed within 50 lbs of that. A lot of k-cars are down in the 2400s at full weight. :)

INVUJerry
07-21-2013, 11:00 AM
Never weighed a t350 but the difference between an auto full of fluid and a manual is less than 40 lbs in the k-cars iirc.

A t-350 weighs about 85lbs, easy enough to pick up and carry around, or to lift up off the ground while you're hunched over the radiator core support lol.


When i weighed my 89 aries 4dr 5spd with full interior and sub boxes i think it weighed within 50 lbs of that. A lot of k-cars are down in the 2400s at full weight. :)

I think my NYG ACR with the AC and PS removed weighed around 2380, give or take a hair, and the 2gn neons weighed around 2600lbs +/-.


I think it would be great. The aries only weighs MAYBE 200 lbs more than a neon at most (it's possible to weigh the same or even less..), and for an economical cruiser i think it would work fantastic.. BUT: using the t350 over a k-car trans is making a lot of work for yourself. The trans mount, bobble strut mount, and pass side axle will all become issues. The drivers side axle may or may not depending on how you do your mounts. If you were to swap the aries to a k-car 5spd, you could just bolt the 2.0 to it, mod the front mount a little and make a passenger side mount, and just be done!

My k-car is the first K-based car I've owned, so this is all a little new to me. I would like to use a t350 since I have a bunch of extra ones, along with shifter cables and an extra stock clutch. What trans would you recommend using?

Vigo
07-21-2013, 01:24 PM
My k-car is the first K-based car I've owned, so this is all a little new to me. I would like to use a t350 since I have a bunch of extra ones, along with shifter cables and an extra stock clutch. What trans would you recommend using?

I thought the van was first? :p

Anyway, all the 5spds are pretty much the same swap difficulty and all of them will last forever behind a 2.0. 520/555 are the two older style trans and 523/568 are the newer style trans that will bolt up. They're all cable shift and cable clutch. The two major final drive ratios are 3.50 and 3.85, pretty close to the two neon options and probably have similar effect on performance for a low-torque stock 2.0. You could get later-year 523s with a 3.77 final drive that had slight differences in other gear ratios too.

You may be able to make a t350 work pretty easily. Im sure someone has put one in a k-car but i dont remember seeing any pics or info on it.

GLHNSLHT2
07-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Doesn't the cam gear for the SOHC head sit where the passenger side motor mount needs to be? Pretty sure this has already been asked about (swap) and that was the reason for it not working well.

Vigo
07-21-2013, 05:12 PM
If you're talking about why people don't do SOHC heads on 2.2/2.5 blocks to make a hybrid motor, i think it has something to do with the cam gear/timing belt/motor mount not playing nice. When you are using the 2.0 block as well i dont see the passenger mount being any different than a 2.4 dohc swap..

GLHNSLHT2
07-21-2013, 07:12 PM
Maybe, I don't remember, was just throwing it out to see if anyone else remembered as well as it might be something to consider before commiting to the swap.

INVUJerry
07-21-2013, 09:10 PM
If you're talking about why people don't do SOHC heads on 2.2/2.5 blocks to make a hybrid motor, i think it has something to do with the cam gear/timing belt/motor mount not playing nice. When you are using the 2.0 block as well i dont see the passenger mount being any different than a 2.4 dohc swap..

When putting a 2.4 into a neon, you still have to use an adapter, or get creative with the stock mounts. We'll see what happens, have a lot of work to do on my neon first before I start to consider doing this. Will lose the AC that I've grown to love since I know I'll be too lazy to figure it out at first.

INVUJerry
07-22-2013, 08:09 PM
So, attaching a TD trans to a 2.0 is a little involved.

http://www.neonsquirt.com/notched_oil_return.jpg

This is from Una's log on TD when he put a 2.0 neon dohc into a 1gn van with an SRT turbo. I might be okay with this.

rbryant
07-22-2013, 08:25 PM
So, attaching a TD trans to a 2.0 is a little involved.

http://www.neonsquirt.com/notched_oil_return.jpg

This is from Una's log on TD when he put a 2.0 neon dohc into a 1gn van with an SRT turbo. I might be okay with this.

Notching the ND starter is a MUCH better solution IMO...

There are pictures in the KC.

-Rich

Vigo
07-22-2013, 08:29 PM
I cant get his page to load for some reason.

I guess that has to be welded up? I honestly didn't know the 2.0 block needed that to bolt to a k-car trans. If you can mod the starter instead that sounds about a million percent better..

INVUJerry
07-22-2013, 09:00 PM
From what I read that oil galley is solidly in the way on the 2.0, and there isn't enough material to remove on the starter. I'll still look, someone may have used a different trans or starter and had better luck than him. I'll check out the KC now.

rbryant
07-23-2013, 03:37 AM
From what I read that oil galley is solidly in the way on the 2.0, and there isn't enough material to remove on the starter. I'll still look, someone may have used a different trans or starter and had better luck than him. I'll check out the KC now.

It looks about the same as the later 2.4l and if you use the ND starter you can notch the starter and avoid the disaster of notching the block.

KC Article: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/knowledge.php?title=Drivetrain:How-to-get-your-520-555-523-568-transmission-to-work-with-the-SRT4-engine&redirect=no

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46181&d=1228332972

The flat strap on this style starter gives much more room than the bolt that is normally there and has much more room than the other style starter.
(I did make a better strap afterward but you get the idea)
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Starter_Mod1.jpg


-Rich

INVUJerry
07-23-2013, 03:48 PM
Oh, cool, that starter is a bit smaller, awesome. Here's a pic of the back of a 2.0 block here:

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n396/INVUJerry1/null_zps06c5bc87.jpg