Any Ford guys in the house? Here's a riddle for you...

[Force Fed Mopar]

So I'm working on an '85 T-bird w/ a 3.8 TBI engine, or CFI as Ford calls it. Engine starts and dies, regardless of what you do with the gas pedal. Timing chain is good, new plugs, good wires and cap/rotor. New fuel pump, filter is clean and flows good, new fpr. Has spark and the fuel injectors spray even when it dies. It acts like it starts and then runs out of fuel, even though the injectors are still pulsing fuel in. Fuel pressure is 38-40 psi. Tried advancing and retarding the timing, made it worse.

But, if you spray brake/carb cleaner in the TB, it will run, and it runs good.

I'm thinking the injectors are not spraying enough, although they are clean and look like new. Bad injectors, or bad computer you think? Or is it possible that a bad sensor could cause this? I unplugged the TPS sensor, didn't change anything.

Normally I can find what I need with Google, but I can't find an answer to this one. Nobody really fixes the 3.8 cars I guess, they either junk them or swap them.

[RoadWarrior222]

Any more history?

[85boostbox]

Unplug the MAP sensor and see if it will run. If it does then you have a bad MAP sensor. May sound stupid but I did it on a Lincoln with the same problem. Unplug the MAP and it would run. Plug it back in it would die.

[Force Fed Mopar]

K I'll try that. It had crossed my mind, but since Ford decided to hide it behind the washer fluid jug, hadn't done so yet :)

---------- Post added at 10:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------


Any more history?

Not really, other than my buddy has done a lot of maintenance on this car, and that the guy "says" that it just wouldn't start one day. Has fresh fuel in it too, no water or anything in it.

[Tbird232ci]

Check the negative cable at the battery. There the main cable, then a smaller cable with a single connector, make sure the connector is connected.

I disconnected it for some reason when I do doing something, and forgot to plug it back in. Car would run pretty much run on the prime, then shut off. I was getting frustrated until I remembered that. That is the ground for the computer.

Have you tried pulling codes?

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/RetrievingCodes/retrieving_eec_diagnostic_codes.htm
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/eec.htm

[turbovanman²]

I seem to recall the fuel pressure should be higher, I'll look it up tomorrow.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Check the negative cable at the battery. There the main cable, then a smaller cable with a single connector, make sure the connector is connected.

I disconnected it for some reason when I do doing something, and forgot to plug it back in. Car would run pretty much run on the prime, then shut off. I was getting frustrated until I remembered that. That is the ground for the computer.

Have you tried pulling codes?

http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/RetrievingCodes/retrieving_eec_diagnostic_codes.htm
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/eec.htm

Will try that also.

[RoadWarrior222]

Come to think we had a tempo in the family doing this, think it turned out to be a bad battery cable.

[BoostedDrummer]

Push it down an incline toward a large body of water.. that usually fixes my Ferd problems:D

[black86glhs]

The injectors spray but is the pattern good? After checking the battle cables and map, if still doing it, look at the spray pattern. Make sure both are spraying.

[85boostbox]

Any updates?

[turbovanman²]

Spec is 39 psi so your good there. Based on what you said, I'd be looking at volume or injector issues.

[RoadWarrior222]

Oh ford fuel pump cutoffs can sometimes go off half-c0cked, if it has one (might be too early) it'll be near the passenger rear wheelarch inside somewhere under a trim panel or in the trunk. Pull it all the way out and reset it to check... they can get semi-released (or fully) from a pothole or something and make a bad contact in the fuel pump circuit resulting in fuelling issues due to pump not getting enough volts.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Push it down an incline toward a large body of water.. that usually fixes my Ferd problems:D

That's what I'm saying :D


The injectors spray but is the pattern good? After checking the battle cables and map, if still doing it, look at the spray pattern. Make sure both are spraying.

Both are spraying, pattern looks okay but I don't really know what it "should" look like.


Any updates?

Not yet, probably Monday. Was gonna work on it today but we ended up going to look at a shop that we are probably going to end up buying as a permanent location.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Checked all that stuff, no change. Checked the ignition switch and found it to be coming apart, fixed that, no change. Realized my scanner goes back to '84 on Fords so I put it on there and did a KOEO test, got code 22 and 63, which is Tps below min volts and map sensor signal out of range. Maybe that is the issue? Odd to have 2 bad sensors at once. I have tried it with the tps unplugged, and with the map unplugged, but not with both unplugged

[RoadWarrior222]

Check the 5v sensor voltage supply, they both need volts to work.... unless it's 8v or something on those...

[turbovanman²]

Checked all that stuff, no change. Checked the ignition switch and found it to be coming apart, fixed that, no change. Realized my scanner goes back to '84 on Fords so I put it on there and did a KOEO test, got code 22 and 63, which is Tps below min volts and map sensor signal out of range. Maybe that is the issue? Odd to have 2 bad sensors at once. I have tried it with the tps unplugged, and with the map unplugged, but not with both unplugged

Clear them and see if they come back. It might work fine with the TPS being buggered but bad MAP's will cause all kinds of starting issues. Check the voltage going in and out on the MAP, KOEO and then try with a vacuum pump to simulate driving.