Piston Rings, N/A vs. Turbo

[90Spirit2.5]

Turbo ring sets are about twice the price of the N/A ring sets. There are differences in the construction of the rings. I have never rebuilt an N/A car so I have never seen the N/A rings up close. I am sure the differences to the naked eye would be subtle, but obviously they are there. Can anyone go into detail on these differences. I am curious to know just for the knowledge bank. And I wonder what the results would be if someone were to throw N/A rings into a Turbo engine just to see how they would hold up? That's a silly test because nobody in there right mind would do this on purpose. Unless they were just that curious and had that much extra time/money to experiment. DDG Quote - "Rings were similar to N/A rings except for a full face chrome treatment to prevent wear and a slight change in ring profile". Are these the only two changes from N/A to Turbo? The top ring gets the plasma/chrome moly finish on the entire face of the ring? And is the profile change mentioned the beveled edge on the top ring? Thanks for any added info on the ring differences in advance!

[RoadWarrior222]

I think the ring package was 1.5/1.5/4mm on N/A and on TII pistons 1.2/1.5/3mm or something like that. Dunno if they were "close" on older TI pistons

[90Spirit2.5]

Based on some of my research. The N/A rings and the SOHC Turbo rings are of the same size spec, 1.5/1.5/4mm. The only ring sets that I could find with the 3mm oil control were the DOHC TIII rings.

[RoadWarrior222]

Hmmm, I was checking my memory and the parts site had a pic of an 8V piston but could have been 16V parts I guess.

[turbovanman²]

All n/a, TI and TII rings are the same EXCEPT the top ring for a turbo engine is Moly to take the heat and abuse, a regular cast ring will not hold up. TIII's have identical top and 2nd rings but the oil ring is 1mm smaller.

Have you searched "rockauto" for rings? Also, the Camry 3.0L uses virtually the same ring pack as ours, so you get 2 spares and those rings are cheap.

[RoadWarrior222]

BTW, the cheap cheap rings might be "rebuilder" quality rings... with the advent of engines that easily go 200,000 miles instead of like 40,000 before needing rebuild and the price of good parts going high, the rebuild industry was looking to cut corners, and the parts people responded with cheaper rebuild parts... so these go into those $1000, 1 year 10,000 mile warranty rebuilt engines, but I wouldn't want them in my own car. Generic rebuilds are so crappy these days, I wouldn't buy a car with a rebuilt motor in it. Anyway, often where the original part had some moly coating, the cheap rebuilder ones are plain cast, and last about as long as they did oldskool.

[90Spirit2.5]

All n/a, TI and TII rings are the same EXCEPT the top ring for a turbo engine is Moly to take the heat and abuse, a regular cast ring will not hold up. TIII's have identical top and 2nd rings but the oil ring is 1mm smaller.

Have you searched "rockauto" for rings? Also, the Camry 3.0L uses virtually the same ring pack as ours, so you get 2 spares and those rings are cheap.So I bet you could run certain N/A rings on a turbo engine. Like for example, MAHLE claims that their 41286CP N/A premium rings use a "Plasma Moly" coated top ring. So possibly that could be used in a turbo motor and it would save you a little bit of coin.?.? I haven't seen them in person, but in the picture of the 41286CP rings it does appear that the top ring isn't a basic cast ring, it does appear to be coated...

[turbovanman²]

So I bet you could run certain N/A rings on a turbo engine. Like for example, MAHLE claims that their 41286CP N/A premium rings use a "Plasma Moly" coated top ring. So possibly that could be used in a turbo motor and it would save you a little bit of coin.?.? I haven't seen them in person, but in the picture of the 41286CP rings it does appear that the top ring isn't a basic cast ring, it does appear to be coated...

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ContentData.aspx?Contentid=73

Hasting's offers a "C" and "M" rings, we want the M rings, C are cast and not very robust.

[90Spirit2.5]

So what do you think of the MAHLE 41286CP with plasma moly coated top ring? And say on a bone stock car with only 12lbs boost? Just curious what the ill effects of using those would be as they are half the cost of most turbo rings. Maybe the "C" stands for cast and the "P" stands for plasma moly coating? Or maybe "P" stands for premium, not sure.

[Vigo]

Ive run a tbi motor with n/a rings up to 16psi without breaking it so i think any ring you can find will be ok at 12psi as long as the setup is in proper tune and you make sure you dont have super-tight ring gaps.

[turbovanman²]

So what do you think of the MAHLE 41286CP with plasma moly coated top ring? And say on a bone stock car with only 12lbs boost? Just curious what the ill effects of using those would be as they are half the cost of most turbo rings. Maybe the "C" stands for cast and the "P" stands for plasma moly coating? Or maybe "P" stands for premium, not sure.

They are an N/A ring, cast top ring with moly sprayed on, for a low boost engine, they'll be fine, just make sure the tune is good.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PCR-41286CP-030/

[90Spirit2.5]

They are an N/A ring, cast top ring with moly sprayed on, for a low boost engine, they'll be fine, just make sure the tune is good.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PCR-41286CP-030/
I was thinking that these or other N/A rings constructed like them would be suitable for a stock turbo engine build. Chances are, I'll still spring for the turbo rings when doing rebuilds like I always have. But I know more details on the ring differences between N/A and turbo rings now, and I have got some good opinions from you guys about them. Thanks!

[Pat]

Ive run a tbi motor with n/a rings up to 16psi without breaking it so i think any ring you can find will be ok at 12psi as long as the setup is in proper tune and you make sure you dont have super-tight ring gaps.

My sisters '88 Shadow ES ran with a complete NA bottom end with head shim and a turbo top end on it for about 120k miles before the body rotted away. Bone stock boost (9 psi?) and electronics, ran low to mid 16's at the track and never had an issue. On a stock or very close to stock build, I don't think NA rings will give you a bit of trouble.

[turbovanman²]

My sisters '88 Shadow ES ran with a complete NA bottom end with head shim and a turbo top end on it for about 120k miles before the body rotted away. Bone stock boost (9 psi?) and electronics, ran low to mid 16's at the track and never had an issue. On a stock or very close to stock build, I don't think NA rings will give you a bit of trouble.

Yeah, well my brothers uncles brother inlaw's cousin who's 3rd in line ran custom rings he made himself out of shim stock, still going strong 1 million miles later, :p lol.

[RoadWarrior222]

I have an old old manual that shows you how to make piston rings LOL and pour bearings.

[Pat]

Yeah, well my brothers uncles brother inlaw's cousin who's 3rd in line ran custom rings he made himself out of shim stock, still going strong 1 million miles later, :p lol.

Just saying...i worked on, drove, raced and my sister neglected/beat on a car with na rings for a lot of miles. For a stock build, i wouldnt worry about it. :-)

[turbovanman²]

Just saying...i worked on, drove, raced and my sister neglected/beat on a car with na rings for a lot of miles. For a stock build, i wouldnt worry about it. :-)

I agree, I said it earlier, I was joking with you, hence the :p

Can't anyone take a joke anymore? Holy crap, did we turn into the other site? :(

[Vigo]

Woah now, no need for such accusations. I agree with the point Pat's making and i think you do too.. on a stockish setup it shouldnt matter. :)

[90Spirit2.5]

This is good to know that a quality N/A ring set could be used in a stock turbo build. This info could save some money for fellow Chrysler Turbo guys, if they are willing to install them in their turbo engine. Because let's face it, most people that are into these cars aren't made of money. Long live the budget racers!

[turbovanman²]

This is good to know that a quality N/A ring set could be used in a stock turbo build. This info could save some money for fellow Chrysler Turbo guys, if they are willing to install them in their turbo engine. Because let's face it, most people that are into these cars aren't made of money. Long live the budget racers!

That shouldn't be an excuse not to build it properly.

[90Spirit2.5]

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