trimcal & d-cal

[TurboXT]

what are they? and where do you get them? im sorry but i have never looked into this kinda stuff. if i was going to tune my car w. an AEM wideband what would i use to adjust fuel etc.

or like burning chips and all that. my friend has some for his SR20DET. and when i found about them, then i saw some threads about eproms chis etc on here


ya. im clueless about all this :nod:

[Captain Chaos]

Trimcal is from FWDPerformance.

[Clay]

trimcal has realtime adjustable parameters. Go to FWDs website for more info.

No idea on the d-cal.

[Frank]

D-cal is a program much similar to MoparChem for modifying and creating your own cals. Dont mention manufactur/vendor and d-cal/moparchem in the same manner if you dont want to die. LOL. There have been people who have stolen intellectual property, etc.

In this case, Trimcal is a version of FWDP's computers & calibration that you can buy.

[TurboXT]

so the trimcal is like a replacement computer?

[guyd_15]

Yes it is.
Guy

[TurboBuggy]

actually I dont think FWD-performance created the first trimcal computer even though they sell it.

Trimcal from FWDperformance = computer with ability to make minor changes, expensive

D-cal = program to reconfigure your own computer's properties to make any changes you want, inexpensive


I dont see why anybody buys cals from vendors when they can just use D-cal to do the same thing; and actually better since you can fine tune to your exact setup and change basically anything you want in the computer's settings. It may be a little confising at first but its not hard once you figure everything out.

[cordes]

I think that it is the intimidation factor first and foremost. Also, the vendors were really the only game in town as far as I wqas concerned a couple of years ago.

Thanks to the work of those on moparchem.com and d-cal, I am doing my own cals. Also don't forget that the dissasemblies which are now avialable readily to the public have not been around for that long in there present form.

If you are doing a cal for the LM, you can check out my how to on my website. It is pretty decent, and feedback is always welcome.

[Frank]

I dont see why anybody buys cals from vendors when they can just use D-cal to do the same thing; and actually better since you can fine tune to your exact setup and change basically anything you want in the computer's settings. It may be a little confising at first but its not hard once you figure everything out.

Not trying to start a fight, but that is kind of a narrow minded statement... people dont want or dont know how to modifiy those horrible non intuitive tables, nor do people have the skills of what they need to tune to do what, and some arent costantly modifying there car all the time to have to constantly tune and fiddle.

It wasnt until recent months that it has become easier to modify calibrations. I have been around since 2001, and it was very hard to get any information until earlier last year.

With all of the calibration information out there, I bet it would be easier to find the pin outs of the chips and port the megasquirt code/equations.... then it would be cake! Anyone want to attempt that with me?


Frank

[TurboBuggy]

Well I just started getting into the D-cal thing the last couple months so I didnt know it used to be harder. But I figure if someone can modify their engine to the extent of needing a high performance cal then they are mechanically inclined enough to learn and use D-cal in a short amount of time. Learning how to use D-cal or Chem would probably take less time than getting a custom cal made, Ive heard of some people waiting 6 months to get their cal! I dont mean to be disrespectful to vendors since most have great products that allow us to make tons of power but I think people should know their is an alternative to paying big bucks for a cal.

[slasky]

I had a trimcal when I ran a 2.2 and it was nice. You can add timing and fuel on the fly and also change your boost settings. It also shows you a lot of the sensor readings too. FWD now has them for a 2.5 so I am thinking of getting one again.http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/739000-739999/739259_2_full.gif

[TurboXT]

so i could even use a TI ecu to make my own cal? even though it a TII car? as long as it has the map sensor on the ecu

[MiniMopar]

Yeah, I remember first seeing that on Neil's CSX-T.

[TurboXT]

ok. because both my cars are glhs electronics

[Aries_Turbo]

the trimcal allows you to adjust your fuel and timing but only across the entire range at once... like turning up the fuel pressure and/or twisting the distributor. kinda cool but no where near as precise as what you can do with D-cal/Chem once you learn how to do it.

TurboXT (I cant remember your real name, Mike maybe?), id get the pinouts on www.minimopar.net for the 87 Logic module versus the GLHS stuff and move some pins around and set your stuff up to be like the 87 LM setup but add a external 3-bar map. head on over to www.moparchem.com and check into the blueberry code (set up for 2.2L intercooled, +20's and a 3-bar map... easily scaled to +40%'s). you could have someone burn it to a chip for you (if you dont have a burner) and socket your ecu to use a plug in rom. then you are all set for some fine tuning with a wideband and a scanner for knock. it should be REALLY close right out of the box though.

Brian

[TurboXT]

TurboXT (I cant remember your real name, Mike maybe?)


Gabe.

[Aries_Turbo]

ah yes... gabe, thats it lol

Brian

[supercrackerbox]

So equipment wise, what all is needed for this stuff?

[cordes]

So equipment wise, what all is needed for this stuff?

If you are refering to doing your own cals, you can check out a pretty good how to on my site for the LM. Other wise check out d-cal on yahoo groups.

You pretty much need only the free software (Chem and/or D-cal), eprom burner, soldering iron, desoldering iron or eqivalent, a socket, an ecu, and some chips...

You should be able to start doing your own cals for ~100 easily, even if you don't own the tools yet.

[86Shelby]

With all of the calibration information out there, I bet it would be easier to find the pin outs of the chips and port the megasquirt code/equations.... then it would be cake! Anyone want to attempt that with me?

If megasquirt had better resolution in the maps I would be all over it. I am impressed with MS but the resolution isn't very good for daily driven boosted cars. You can have a few data points for vacuum or boost; pick one. I'll wait to run MS once the maps are finer than 12x12, then I'll probably go that route.

[Frank]

If megasquirt had better resolution in the maps I would be all over it. I am impressed with MS but the resolution isn't very good for daily driven boosted cars. You can have a few data points for vacuum or boost; pick one. I'll wait to run MS once the maps are finer than 12x12, then I'll probably go that route.

Well check out he MSII insert which is a processor sub board which plugs into the normal MS processor socket. It has that. However I disagree with your issue with resolution. The drivability doesnt use that table as its only source. That is what the O2 is for.



Frank

[Aries_Turbo]

frank, ms2 is 12x12 still......

12x12 is plenty... look at the stock cals... there arent the greatest amount of points either.

Brian

[Frank]

hmmm.. I was thinking of something else!

[supercrackerbox]

If you are refering to doing your own cals, you can check out a pretty good how to on my site for the LM. Other wise check out d-cal on yahoo groups.

You pretty much need only the free software (Chem and/or D-cal), eprom burner, soldering iron, desoldering iron or eqivalent, a socket, an ecu, and some chips...

You should be able to start doing your own cals for ~100 easily, even if you don't own the tools yet.

Been trying for two days now, can't get the moparchem page to load.:confused: Beyond that I have the soldering iron. That's it. Wouldn't even know where to get the rest of it, but I'm hoping that will all be on your site when I can load it. Next question: What about computer knowledge? Believe me, I can wrench on these cars with the best of you, but when it comes to anything with computers, I'm severely technologically impared.

Hey Ray, do you think this is something we should consider doing together?

[cordes]

Been trying for two days now, can't get the moparchem page to load.:confused: Beyond that I have the soldering iron. That's it. Wouldn't even know where to get the rest of it, but I'm hoping that will all be on your site when I can load it. Next question: What about computer knowledge? Believe me, I can wrench on these cars with the best of you, but when it comes to anything with computers, I'm severely technologically impared.

Hey Ray, do you think this is something we should consider doing together?

I knew absolutly nothing about this whole buisiness when I started, so that is who my page on omniglht.com is geared toward. My page tells you where to purchase all you will need. I would still search around for a better deal, but the places I got the stuff were by far the cheapest. If you find it cheaper let me know.

I don't know why www.moparchem.com won't load for you. I have been checking the posts over there over the last couple of days IIRC.

Just checked and it looks as though moparchem.com is down.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Trim cal was made by Neil Emiro for FWDPerformance.

[rhubbard]

i've been part of dcal for awhile now. I've just sat and read as much as I can and I have no clue about any of the stuff they say. I understand the parts needed and after much searching I was able to get some info. boostedmopar.com had some good info in their FAQ when it came to burning your own cals.

I also recall reading that you needed to be familiar with the hexadecimal system to be proficent with your own cals.

[cordes]

i've been part of dcal for awhile now. I've just sat and read as much as I can and I have no clue about any of the stuff they say. I understand the parts needed and after much searching I was able to get some info. boostedmopar.com had some good info in their FAQ when it came to burning your own cals.

I also recall reading that you needed to be familiar with the hexadecimal system to be proficent with your own cals.

The hex system is not as scary as it sounds. It is just a base 16 system, and you can use the scientific calcualator function which about any computer has to do the conversions back and forth. It works really well, and it too is free.

[Ground Rat]

I dont see why anybody buys cals from vendors when they can just use D-cal to do the same thing.
Because they aren't that expensive and it's easy.

[86Shelby]

The hex system is not as scary as it sounds. It is just a base 16 system, and you can use the scientific calcualator function which about any computer has to do the conversions back and forth. It works really well, and it too is free.

Converting the actual Hex into straight numbers and back isn't hard to do. What stops me is figuring out WTF to do with things like the following taken from the D-cal mailing list a few days ago.

94F0 3 n VehicleSpeedHighFan ControlConst IN 0 255 X MPH 0 1024 mph
NAME Speed_for_fan_ control_high_ settings
94F4 3 n VehicleSpeedLowFanC ontrolConst IN 0 255 X MPH 0 1024 mph
NAME Speed_for_fan_ control_low_ settings
887A 3 n FanOnTempAbove44 IN 0 255 X Coolant_Temperature -200 260 F
NAME Temp_to_turn_ on_fan_when_ speed_is_ above_44MPH.
887B 3 n FanOffTempAbove44 IN 0 255 X Coolant_Temperature -200 260 F
NAME Temp_to_turn_ off_fan_when_ speed_is_ above_44MPH.
887C 3 n FanOnTempBelow36 IN 0 255 X Coolant_Temperature -200 260 F
NAME Temp_to_turn_ on_fan_when_ speed_is_ below_36MPH.
887D 3 n FanOffTempBelow36 IN 0 255 X Coolant_Temperature -200 260 F
NAME Temp_to_turn_ off_fan_when_ speed_is_ below_36MPH.


I know what it's function is(turning the cooling fan on/off in relation to vehicle speed and coolant temp) but exactly how to modify that line(s) correctly to do what I want it to is where I've got questions. This is just a simple example. When I read "added the serial routine at address c833 and pointed the interrupt at ffd6 to c833" I don't know why I'd need to do that or the process that lead to that solution.

Addresses and what to do with, or in, them and such is ALL latin to me. I've got the latin alphabet but don't know how to spell or make sentances, catch my drift.

[cordes]

yeah, I know what you are saying for sure. I can really look at it and figure some stuff out, but for the most part I have to follow the lead of others.