Neon Converter Not Unlocking?

[cordes]

It feels like our Neon is having some trans issues as of late. It's shifting out of first at a higher and higher RPM. Right now you need to take it up over 2500RPM or it won't shift into second. It also feels like the converter doesn't unlock until the RPM gets down to near 1K.

What gives?

[BadAssPerformance]

Did you check fluid level? kickdown cable adjustment?

[black86glhs]

Governor sticking?

[chryguy]

Kickdown lever not moving, possibly sticking in the case?

CG

[BadAssPerformance]

Time to 5-speed swap? :D

[black86glhs]

Time to 5-speed swap? :DOn his budget....HA!!!:p

[cordes]

Kickdown lever not moving, possibly sticking in the case?

CG

That could be. I haven't check that yet. It should probably be the first one though I guess.


Time to 5-speed swap? :D

See below.


On his budget....HA!!!:p




In all seriousness, we're getting over 40mpgs right now with the .91 transfer gears so I can't see swapping in the 5 speed just yet. Perhaps some day.

[turbovanman²]

Sounds like the governor is sticking, remove the pan, if lots of metal, the TC is coming apart or some other metal on metal action.

[cordes]

Sounds like the governor is sticking, remove the pan, if lots of metal, the TC is coming apart or some other metal on metal action.

That sounds wonderful. I'll look forward to the inspection.

[turbovanman²]

That sounds wonderful. I'll look forward to the inspection.

Ask me how I know, :mecry:

[RoadWarrior222]

I vote sticky governor also... but there's a slight chance the SDS can cause similar sounding symptoms i.e. feeling like it nearly stalls coming to stop, and odd seeming shifting due to needing more pedal than you think you're using.... but you should see codes for that.

[cordes]

I vote sticky governor also... but there's a slight chance the SDS can cause similar sounding symptoms i.e. feeling like it nearly stalls coming to stop, and odd seeming shifting due to needing more pedal than you think you're using.... but you should see codes for that.

The speedometer was jumping around on us a little while back, but no codes...

[cordes]

Well it appears as though I may have another problem happening which could influence the converter lock up? Here is the post I put up on neons.org. I think there may be a speed sensor and CPS sensor issue at hand. If they don't share a ground or anything I think they may have frayed and be shorting on one another.


I've done some searching and reading. I'm not sure if this is a crank position sensor problem in conjunction with a speed sensor issue.

Do the speed sensor and crank position sensor share a common ground at all? They will both go haywire at the same time for the most part although the speedo will jump all over while the tach is going strong.

I haven't gotten a check engine light and the last time I pulled the codes none were stored.

The car is a 97' SOHC ATX.

[RoadWarrior222]

well the vss And lockup are usually in the same harness that joins at the top back of the trans and comes over the top of it.

[cordes]

well the vss And lockup are usually in the same harness that joins at the top back of the trans and comes over the top of it.

Ah-ha! So I'm having problems with all three of these and they may all be intertwined somehow. Very interesting. Does anyone have a wiring diagram?

[turbovanman²]

That won't affect your shifting problems or low converter unlock as that is controlled by the valve body as its hydraulic and not electric.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yeah, but lack of power due to sensor glitches can make shift points seem late, due to subconsciously using more throttle, which makes it shift higher through the throttle-valve/kickdown, even though it doesn't feel like you're using more throttle.

Also the TC clutch lock/unlock is controlled electronically (Simon, doh, you've even rigged a switch for it before) if the speed sensor is glitching and the 'pooter thinks the car is going 50 when it's going 20, then it's not gonna unlock it... or if there's some short in the harness it could be holding it locked up...

Anyway, this is why right at the start of the trans chapter in the FSM it says to check for engine performance issues first.

It would be wise to check out wiring and electrics issues before faulting the trans for lockup issues, and tearing it apart, and it'll be easier to tell what exactly is happening when motor is performing properly, but there still might be a gummy governor issue in the end.

will see if I have diagram later... think it's on another PC...

[cordes]

All of the sensors apparently share a voltage feed according to a guy on .org. I'll have to check this out as I searched and found that the area in which all of these wires come together back there is a common point of horrific failure.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yeah, corner there near strut tower where they come up, salt spray seems to collect there in winter.

The VSS has an 8V feed, not sure what others take, the lockup I thunk was 12V.... now if the 8V is crossed to the 12V line that might be enough for the lockup solenoid not to release but not enough to activate it... it would also pull the VSS signal higher, dunno if the SBEC looks for troughs or peaks....

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, but lack of power due to sensor glitches can make shift points seem late, due to subconsciously using more throttle, which makes it shift higher through the throttle-valve/kickdown, even though it doesn't feel like you're using more throttle.

Also the TC clutch lock/unlock is controlled electronically (Simon, doh, you've even rigged a switch for it before) if the speed sensor is glitching and the 'pooter thinks the car is going 50 when it's going 20, then it's not gonna unlock it... or if there's some short in the harness it could be holding it locked up...



True BUT you can energize that solenoid and it won't engage until you hit 3rd gear, same when slowing down, when you hit 2nd, it unlocks. YOU should know that, :p

[RoadWarrior222]

So the question is, does it stumble at 1k coming down from 3rd to 2nd or from 2nd to 1st... 3-2 votes lockup, 1-2 votes governor

[cordes]

So the question is, does it stumble at 1k coming down from 3rd to 2nd or from 2nd to 1st... 3-2 votes lockup, 1-2 votes governor

I really don't know since I haven't been tracking it while watching the RPM too closely yet. If I had to guess I would say from 3rd down to 2nd. I think it happens at too high of a speed for the car not to be screaming if this were happening while kicking down into 1st.

[cordes]

I'd like to update the thread and state that the kick down lever was frozen. After freeing it up the trans appears to shift normally. Thanks for all of the help guys.

[chryguy]

No problem Brian,

Glad to hear that's what it was.
I've had it happen several times before on Neons for some reason...has to have something to do with salt spray getting up on top of the trans case.
Plus, since I sold it to ya' I had a vested interest. :eyebrows:

CG

[Vigo]

GLad it isnt your problem this time around but all the 2.0/2.4 cars are pretty well known for wiring issues on the backside of the block. Stuff tends to melt together back there.

[cordes]

No problem Brian,

Glad to hear that's what it was.
I've had it happen several times before on Neons for some reason...has to have something to do with salt spray getting up on top of the trans case.
Plus, since I sold it to ya' I had a vested interest. :eyebrows:

CG

No worries there. I have more than received my money's worth out of this trans and it keeps coming back for more!


GLad it isnt your problem this time around but all the 2.0/2.4 cars are pretty well known for wiring issues on the backside of the block. Stuff tends to melt together back there.

Oh, I'm having that issue too right now. I'm actually getting ready to head out into the garage to pull the harness and run individual wires to all the sensors. Good times.