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View Full Version : TIII Reusing a Cometic HG, tips & tricks wanted.



86Shelby
05-23-2012, 08:09 PM
I have two used TIII Cometics sitting in the garage all wrapped up. One was used for about 10k, the other about 200 miles. I wiped them off and then wrapped them in plastic when I took them out. What do I need to do to reuse the low mileage one? It's been stored for a little over 4 years like this. I didn't bother reusing it when I swapped the head since I had a Mopar piece in my stash. Now that the Mopar pieces are NS1 I'm willing to look into reusing what I have.

turbovanmanČ
05-23-2012, 10:43 PM
I just use black engine paint-clean them up so they aren't oily, coat the living crap out of it with paint, let dry, install, torque, have fun.

bakes
05-23-2012, 11:17 PM
I just use black engine paint-clean them up so they aren't oily, coat the living crap out of it with paint, let dry, install, torque, have fun.

and Add Iron Tight to the cooling system for the extra sealing

http://www.irontite.com/

turbovanmanČ
05-23-2012, 11:36 PM
and Add Iron Tight to the cooling system for the extra sealing

+2...

DOHCRT
05-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Simon, Do you just coat the upper and lower surfaces? What about in between the layers? Can a Cometic be used with an o-ringed block?

A.J.
05-24-2012, 12:45 AM
I reused a SOHC Cometic gasket. I even used it on a different engine than what I originally installed it on. I used cooper spray and ARP head studs. Both my head and block were resurfaced. It's been on since March 2008. I made 2 trips to Oklahoma from Arizona, many trips prairie dog hunting (3 hour drive away pulling a pretty steep grade), and plenty of trips down the track with 20 lbs of boost and no problems. I'll will be reusing a 16v Cometic once I get an engine apart I'm doing for a customer.

I don't like sealing products that you put in the cooling system. They make a mess of the cooling system and are near impossible to get out once you finally fix the problem. Keep this in mind, how does the sealant know the difference between an actual leak and a metered leak that your radiator cap provides?

A.J.

black86glhs
05-24-2012, 02:34 AM
The nano bots tell it where to go. I thought you were a sci-fi geek, A.J.?
LOL.
It's red paint Simon. That is why you aren't faster.:thumbup:

A.J.
05-24-2012, 10:50 AM
The nano bots tell it where to go. I thought you were a sci-fi geek, A.J.?


I guess my customers go cheap and get the stop leak without nano bot technology.

A.J.

lengel
05-24-2012, 12:20 PM
I drill out the rivets, clean each layer, spray each layer with permatex copper spay-a-gasket, and assemble. I have reused a cometic 4 or 5 useing this method with no problems. I am sure there are other ways that will work, this is just what I do.

Adam

Pat
05-24-2012, 12:27 PM
I drill out the rivets, clean each layer, spray each layer with permatex copper spay-a-gasket, and assemble. I have reused a cometic 4 or 5 useing this method with no problems. I am sure there are other ways that will work, this is just what I do.

Adam

I did the same thing on two of mine...never had an issue, including on my Shadow's GRM motor which was beaten mercilessly.

turbovanmanČ
05-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Simon, Do you just coat the upper and lower surfaces? What about in between the layers? Can a Cometic be used with an o-ringed block?

I just spray in between. I switched to paint as that's what the OE's use and it works.





I don't like sealing products that you put in the cooling system. They make a mess of the cooling system and are near impossible to get out once you finally fix the problem. Keep this in mind, how does the sealant know the difference between an actual leak and a metered leak that your radiator cap provides?

A.J.

I didn't until I tried that stuff, it works with heat and air. I've checked my cooling system cold and there is no mess.

I had to use it as my cometic started to leak a few months ago and I wasn't changing it out, I've reused this one something like 6 or 7 times, :banghead: anyhow, after sitting overnight, it would miss for a few seconds when first started and the coolant level was dropping, found the Iron-tite by a fluke and every Cometic gasketed engine will get that stuff now, its wicked stuff. :nod:

86Shelby
05-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the tips guys, I appreciate it. Hopefully it will be all back together by SDAC

shackwrrr
05-27-2012, 09:27 AM
I want hear more about this paint vs copper spray thing.

A.J.
05-27-2012, 10:23 AM
I want hear more about this paint vs copper spray thing.

I would say the copper spray would be better to use because it stays tacky longer than the paint, so when you install it the copper spray will squeeze into the scratches and fill them where the paint won't.

A.J.

22shelby
05-27-2012, 10:32 AM
it was explaind to me from Flat out group tha because of the 3 different metals coming together will cause electrolysis... thus the copper spray eliminats this... not sure if paint has that same property but if Simons doing it, it must work ;)

i have used this method on a cometics and have retorqued it 5 times with studs... no problems... oh yeah and ill also advise to drill out the rivits and spray each layer

turbovanmanČ
05-27-2012, 04:41 PM
I want hear more about this paint vs copper spray thing.


I would say the copper spray would be better to use because it stays tacky longer than the paint, so when you install it the copper spray will squeeze into the scratches and fill them where the paint won't.

A.J.


it was explaind to me from Flat out group tha because of the 3 different metals coming together will cause electrolysis... thus the copper spray eliminats this... not sure if paint has that same property but if Simons doing it, it must work ;)

i have used this method on a cometics and have retorqued it 5 times with studs... no problems... oh yeah and ill also advise to drill out the rivits and spray each layer

If you look at OE gaskets, they are covered in Paint, NOT copper spray, so they must be on too something.

Paint flows into crevices too, just liberally apply a few coats and I install it wet after the last coat.

I've used the recent Cometic probably a 8 or 9 times but its finally starting to leak, hence the Irontite. My last Cometic I tried with copper spray, only got to reuse it once.

A.J.
05-27-2012, 05:21 PM
If you look at OE gaskets, they are covered in Paint, NOT copper spray, so they must be on too something.


Right, but what kind of paint. Off the shelf stuff available to you and me or something special.

A.J.

turbovanmanČ
05-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Right, but what kind of paint. Off the shelf stuff available to you and me or something special.

A.J.

I was told by a tech sponsored by HRC years ago, its simple engine paint.

I just reused some MLS head gaskets in a high mile 2.7 Dodge V6 out of a Sebring, budget engine work, cleaned, resprayed with engine paint, good as new. If you look at OE gaskets, it looks like paint.

I know it works for me, some like copper spray, so there is more than one way to skin a cat, ;)

A.J.
05-27-2012, 06:30 PM
I was told by a tech sponsored by HRC years ago, its simple engine paint.


Well that is just too damn simple.

A.J.

turbovanmanČ
05-27-2012, 08:50 PM
Well that is just too damn simple.

A.J.

LOL, to change phrase around, "simple is as simple does" :thumb:

Sundance 6g72
05-27-2012, 10:19 PM
do they not sell new ones? or are they really expensive? either way, sounds like re using is fine.

i know i used copper spray on a cheep felpro on my engine and im having good luck. The copper spray seems to be the way to go on any gasket. The paint idea seems to make sense too.

Turbo3Iroc
05-28-2012, 12:40 AM
A new Cometic is ~$125. This thread was started right after I had a new gasket overnighted to me. I didn't think people were really reusing them with good success.

turbovanmanČ
05-28-2012, 04:03 AM
I didn't think people were really reusing them with good success.

Huh? :confused:

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------


do they not sell new ones? or are they really expensive? either way, sounds like re using is fine.

i know i used copper spray on a cheep felpro on my engine and im having good luck. The copper spray seems to be the way to go on any gasket. The paint idea seems to make sense too.

Cometics are sold as reusable which many of us do. Some prefer to use new ones every time, your budget or abuse level dictates what you do.

Turbo3Iroc
05-28-2012, 09:21 AM
No one has really taked about it so I didn't think it was common practice. My old one looked ok but the paint was missing between the cylinders. I didn't know it was standard engine paint.

JasonFlood
05-28-2012, 10:08 AM
With the effort involved in pulling a head WHY would ANYONE reuse an item as essential as a head gasket? I don't care how it's marketed, just buy a new one!!

turbovanmanČ
05-28-2012, 01:17 PM
With the effort involved in pulling a head WHY would ANYONE reuse an item as essential as a head gasket? I don't care how it's marketed, just buy a new one!!

I guess your rich, care to send some money my way, I'll send you my paypal, thanks.

black86glhs
05-28-2012, 05:45 PM
I have used the Mopar gasket sealant spray and it does the same thing. Plus it stays tacky.

22shelby
05-28-2012, 08:49 PM
With the effort involved in pulling a head WHY would ANYONE reuse an item as essential as a head gasket? I don't care how it's marketed, just buy a new one!!

when your in a race and you only have an hour or 2 in between rounds, and you just so happen the burn up a piston, chance are your going to bank one their marketing and hope it goes back together... yes composit gasket, replace every time cause of the compression rings.... im assuming you have never used or even seen a MLS gasket so there for your comments would seem legit, however at 125 bucks a pop, and as many times that ive pulled a head and had to put it back on (T-M world AND Top Sportsman world). i WILL respray and reuse a MLS gasket anytime!!! THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR, NOT MARKETED FOR!!!

do you reuse your head studs or buy new ones everytime the head comes off??

end of rant

clean it, spread it, spray each layer and reuse it, unless you have visable damage that makes you go "oh dam, that don't look good" then get a new one, oh and word of advise, if you decide to drill out the rivits and seperate the layers, strack them back on in the same order they came off...

JasonFlood
05-28-2012, 09:02 PM
I guess your rich, care to send some money my way, I'll send you my paypal, thanks.

Nope, not rich, but I do believe in doing things right the first time and once. This usually ends up costing less in the long run. When I bought my 91 R/T in 1999 it was not running because of a broken timing belt. I had it towed to the dealership where a friend of mine was a mechanic. We pulled the head(yes, I helped he'd never seen a T3 before), replaced the belt, replaced everything else that looked worn and I drove the car hard for years on end. I would have driven that car to California if I had to because I was confident that I had done everything I could to make it reliable.

Orangetona
05-28-2012, 09:21 PM
Jason, they are most definitely reusable. Unless you take it out and stomp on it or drag it across a stone driveway, it should be fine. You never reuse a regular headgasket however.

shackwrrr
05-28-2012, 09:56 PM
if anyone doesn't like using a used cometic, then feel free to send them my way lol. Im assembling my car with used parts. Used cometic, Used ARP studs, Used stock rods and pistons(to replace fubared originals, Even a used Spec clutch!

JasonFlood
05-28-2012, 10:18 PM
if anyone doesn't like using a used cometic, then feel free to send them my way lol. Im assembling my car with used parts. Used cometic, Used ARP studs, Used stock rods and pistons(to replace fubared originals, Even a used Spec clutch!

Will do. As long as the head I purchased from Cindy is good as advertised then I hopefully will never be pulling the car apart once it's done. But if I have to I'll send you the used gasket.:nod:

22shelby
05-28-2012, 11:15 PM
yeah can i be on that used cometics list too??

turbovanmanČ
05-29-2012, 01:17 AM
Nope, not rich, but I do believe in doing things right the first time and once. This usually ends up costing less in the long run. When I bought my 91 R/T in 1999 it was not running because of a broken timing belt. I had it towed to the dealership where a friend of mine was a mechanic. We pulled the head(yes, I helped he'd never seen a T3 before), replaced the belt, replaced everything else that looked worn and I drove the car hard for years on end. I would have driven that car to California if I had to because I was confident that I had done everything I could to make it reliable.

Why did he pull the head for a broken timing belt? :confused: They don't bend valves, so he cost you alot of money for a simple timing belt job.

So reusing an MLS gasket that is designed to be reused and marketed as reusable is doing things wrong? :confused:

Crap, I guess we've all been doing it wrong, :banghead:

In all seriousness, they are usable if they aren't badly torched or ? from abuse but if you feel that they shouldn't be reused, like already said, send them my way, :thumb:


Jason, they are most definitely reusable. Unless you take it out and stomp on it or drag it across a stone driveway, it should be fine. You never reuse a regular headgasket however.

Eggsackery.


if anyone doesn't like using a used cometic, then feel free to send them my way lol. Im assembling my car with used parts. Used cometic, Used ARP studs, Used stock rods and pistons(to replace fubared originals, Even a used Spec clutch!

LOL.

Orangetona
05-29-2012, 08:13 AM
Eggsackery.

Wut?.

black86glhs
05-29-2012, 11:29 AM
He likes your eggsackery.:eyebrows:

Orangetona
05-29-2012, 12:01 PM
He likes your eggsackery.:eyebrows:

Im outta here. Simon is gazing pretty hardcore.

Rrider
05-29-2012, 12:35 PM
So what is the methodology with the spray? Spray one layer then let it sit for 10 minutes to tack up before you move on to the next? Or just do all at the same time?

turbovanmanČ
05-29-2012, 02:26 PM
Wut?.

Hard to comprehend over the net but its exactly but done that way. Never heard that before?


So what is the methodology with the spray? Spray one layer then let it sit for 10 minutes to tack up before you move on to the next? Or just do all at the same time?

I like to soak it down, let it track up a bit, then soak it again, let it tack up and install.

Orangetona
05-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Hard to comprehend over the net but its exactly but done that way. Never heard that before?

Can't say I have lol. To me, it sounds like the equivalent of saying nonsense or bullshit ;)

Just imagine saying it like this egg-sackery. It just sounds...like saying bs to someone if you dont say it out loud. But I get it now, saying it out loud makes a lot more sense lmao

86Shelby
05-30-2012, 12:09 AM
I've used Ed Zachary.

JasonFlood
05-30-2012, 01:35 AM
[QUOTE=turbovanman;921231]Why did he pull the head for a broken timing belt? :confused: They don't bend valves, so he cost you alot of money for a simple timing belt...

I know they don't bend valves. I purchased the car with a broken timing belt but upon closer inspection the head gasket was leaking and the oil and coolant lines on the turbo were in rough shape so I said lets pull the head. It also gave us a chance to look at the cylinder walls/pistons to make sure everything appeared ok. When it comes to vehicles I don't really care about the money. Buying back and restoring my 92 R/T was something to do until the 2013 Charger SRT8 specs are solidified . I would have just bought a 2012 but rumor has it that PCP and a factory SC for the 6.4 are in the works......

turbovanmanČ
05-30-2012, 03:35 AM
I've used Ed Zachary.

Never heard that one before, lol.


.

I know they don't bend valves. I purchased the car with a broken timing belt but upon closer inspection the head gasket was leaking and the oil and coolant lines on the turbo were in rough shape so I said lets pull the head. It also gave us a chance to look at the cylinder walls/pistons to make sure everything appeared ok. When it comes to vehicles I don't really care about the money. Buying back and restoring my 92 R/T was something to do until the 2013 Charger SRT8 specs are solidified . I would have just bought a 2012 but rumor has it that PCP and a factory SC for the 6.4 are in the works......

Gotcha and glad your not concerned about money, 95% of us on this board are.

30 PSI SHADOW
06-09-2012, 10:36 AM
you dont spray the new ones do you? The new ones go on dry right?

Turbo3Iroc
06-09-2012, 04:42 PM
I put them on dry.

marcus5065
06-09-2012, 06:17 PM
How about going a little further in detail into the cleaning process for a used cometic? solvents, technics, etc. no point in not doing it as best as you can, with the best known methods.

shackwrrr
06-09-2012, 08:58 PM
Spray rag with brake clean then wipe it.

black86glhs
06-10-2012, 12:58 AM
Spray rag with brake clean then wipe it.Just like before a date!:D

shackwrrr
06-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Just like before a date!:D

Sometimes after, if alcohol was involved. That might take a direct spray though.

chryguy
06-10-2012, 11:15 PM
Jeezola,

That's gonna sting...:eek:

Don't get caught washing it in the sink...:confused:


CG

johnl
06-27-2012, 08:49 PM
Cometic calls out a super fine "mirror like" spec for the finish of the head and block that none of us have, unless we spec'd it at the machine shop and most of them can't meet it anyway. That's why I have used copper coat on new Cometics. No problems. Reused them too, no problems.

Recently, however, I asked the owner of a respected local machine shop about Copper Coat and Cometics and he said no to Copper Coat but recommended Hylomar, in aerosol, instead.

My understanding of the coating on the Cometics is that it is not paint and that it is Viton, applied as if it were paint. I imagine that Viton can slip but still seal against a mirror smooth surface as the parts expand and contract but that it will abrade away against a more rough surface - for instance, that area between the cylinders where we have the greatest movement/temperature extremes. That's where the Copper Coat/Hylomar comes in.

The reason, again I'm speculating, that the Hylomar is showing itself superior to Copper Coat, is that there's no electrolysis. It is not infused with copper. I don't know what Hylomar is made of but whatever it is, it does not appear to be metallic. That is, there is no electrolysis between the copper and the iron and the copper, and the aluminum and the copper, and the copper and the stainless of the gasket.