Daytona refuses to work.

[plymouth]

My 87 Daytona will crank but will not fire. Ran rich right before it started not running at all.

ShelbyZ factory LM and factory map injectors and nearly everything else.
I have changed:
Coolant temp sensor
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel filter and lines
Fuel pump
Many different coils
An entire stack of LMs and power modules
Spark plugs
HEP
Set and checked the timing

There is more stuff I changed I just can’t think of it now.

Any ideas?

[BadAssPerformance]

Codes?

Check F.A.S.T. ?

Got Fuel?
Got Air?
Got Spark?
Correct Timing? (Ignition and cam)

then... compression test

[Vigo]

Which timing did you check? Ignition or cam?

[plymouth]

fuel good
spark was weak(even with a MSD blaster coil) but I would think it would still cough or do something.
cam and Ignition timing are dead on.

[Orangetona]

Which timing did you check? Ignition or cam?

I feel like you cant check ignition timing when it doesnt run. :D

EDIT: I should add to this since I was just being a smart --- hehe. Id check the intermediate shaft to make sure its not all kinds of off lol.

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------

[/COLOR]
fuel good
spark was weak(even with a MSD blaster coil) but I would think it would still cough or do something.
cam and Ignition timing are dead on.

Check the shutter in the distributor, if you have timing, fuel, spark, it should run. Unless we are talking about an LM problem. Or ASD?

Oh and check and see if that little spring came off thats under the cap for the coil wire

[BadAssPerformance]

fuel good
spark was weak(even with a MSD blaster coil) but I would think it would still cough or do something.
cam and Ignition timing are dead on.

Good fuel at the rail? and are the injectors cycling?

Dist is from a turbo car, not TBI right?

Sound like its got compression?

[plymouth]

Pushed the shrader valve at the rail and a ton of fuel came out with really strong pressure also.

I turned the engine to time it and it has compression.

distributor came out of my GLH and yes its a turbo set up.

I can't tell if the injectors are working but the connector to the harness it tight. and the same harness, injectors, rail, and all of that came out of my GLH and worked fine.

[Vigo]

I feel like you cant check ignition timing when it doesnt run.

You certainly can check base timing if it doesnt run. You just cant check it if you dont have spark.


Will it run on starter fluid?

Also, fuel pressure gauge is like <$15 at harbor freight.

[plymouth]

You certainly can check base timing if it doesnt run. You just cant check it if you dont have spark.


Will it run on starter fluid?

Also, fuel pressure gauge is like <$15 at harbor freight.

No will not run on starting fluid, and the HF fuel pressure gauge broke my last fuel rail so it went in the trash and hasn't been replaced.

[Orangetona]

Meh...nvm post didnt matter.

[Vigo]

Wow, you broke your fuel rail trying to get a schrader fitting on/off? http://www.brooklyngrangefarm.com/wp-content/uploads/simpsons_nelson_haha2-50x50.png jk

Actually sorry to hear that but curious how it happened..

Anyway if you've got spark and it wont run on starter fluid you've definitely got timing issues. It doesnt even matter if the injectors are running at that point (lets hope they are though). I would think any spark that you could even see while checking spark would light starter fluid. I mean, ive checked spark on lawnmowers and it looks friggin terrible and they run fine.

When you checked the cam and ignition timing you didnt actually change either of them, right? This thing was running fine, then it seemed to run rich, and now it wont start.. So if you checked the cam and ignition timing and they were spot on then they weren't the cause of the problem and you didnt touch them. If the distributor was 180* out it would have spark, fuel, and compression and still not run even with starter fluid but it couldnt get to be 180* out unless you actually tried to reset the cam timing, and i dont think the spark would show up in the timing window if you tried to watch base timing with the distributor 180* out.

I just dont see how you can have your cam timing and spark timing in the ballpark and get absolutely no change with starter fluid unless the computer is trying to fire the coil WAAAY off where it should. But if you hook a timing light to it and crank it like while checking the base timing you should be able to see it in the timing window and if its in the window that means the computer is firing it at the right time.

So i guess if you already verified compression, cam timing, and you can see the mark in the timing window with a timing light while cranking, then i'm stumped for now.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1 to timing... for ignition timing did you pull the cap to double check the rotor points at #1 when TDC? I had a intermediate shaft skip a tooth on the oil pump (somehow not shredding the teeth off) and that was the only way I found it, everything else checked out fine

Or... the little carbon thingy in the cap (that the rotor contacts) can come out and cause crappy spark...

[plymouth]

Distributor points at #1
I didn't check to make sure that part of the cap is still in. Going to try that.

and the HF pressure gauge pushed the valve down wrong(maybe?) and it made it leak. I really don't know how it happened to be honest.

[Vigo]

Here's hoping it's that little black thing. That would definitely result in shitty spark. Also sometimes if it gets pushed in it will lodge in there and not pop back out leaving another big air gap.

[RoadWarrior222]

Not even popping on starter fluid makes me think a serious lack of compression, either due to cam timing being completely off, or rings are real far gone, or the pistons got ventilated, or it lifted the head or something.

[plymouth]

Working on the car now. the black thing under the cap is still springy. The spark is bad at coil. bad HEP maybe?

[RoadWarrior222]

Is the coil getting the 12V pulse? (gotta work back along it methodical like, otherwise $200 of parts later you discover the coil is bad)

Yah I know you tried different ones...

One thing though, how have you changed them? Did you loosen the strap off and post a different one in? Or did you replace it clamp and all? Just thinking that the clamp might not be grounding so well, especially if it "looks rusted in and don't want to disturb it"

[plymouth]

coil has good volts coil clamp has no rust. new hep spark still sucks.

[RoadWarrior222]

What are you sparking to when checking for strength, if you get bright spark to coil bracket from coil lead, but dim spark to motor, it's your motor ground.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

doh actually, we should check also for bright spark to bolt on frame/body near coil check bracket is grounding.

[Orangetona]

What the eff is up with the link to '87 Shelby Daytona' lmfao

[RoadWarrior222]

I guess it just wasn't a giraffe in his loft kinda day.

[plymouth]

What the eff is up with the link to '87 Shelby Daytona' lmfao
awesome links

I have crap spark to everything in the engine bay.
side note oil is starting to smell of gas. FML

[Orangetona]

Sounds like a ground problem somewhere then. Yeah I know lots of help here.

[plymouth]

I think the engine maybe washed down with gas? reason for not poping on staring fluid?
Even bad spark would light off something right?
stumped and just taking shots in the dark now.

[Orangetona]

Yeah if you tried to start it a lot im sure it get get some down in there. Youll want to change the oil before you run it. Are you completely positive you have spark at the plugs?

[plymouth]

yes spark is getting to the plugs. oil change is gona happen when it works.

[plymouth]

codes are 12 23.

[shadow88]

Code 23 - charge temp sensor. Not going to affect how it starts.

I'm going to suggest you make small ignition timing adjustments, then crank the engine, then make another small adjustment, then crank the engine until you find the area in which the ignition timing is close enough to run, then properly set the ingition timing with a timing light and coolant sensor unplugged.

I think you're just slightly off.

[BadAssPerformance]

Just slightly off? these cars will run on quite a bit of bad timing... this may be it if teh coil spark is greak but plug gap is crappy, but i thought the spark at the plug was as bad as it is at the coil? If so then the problem is upsteam.

If the Charge Temp Sensor is bad and latched rich because of it, could try to start with throttle WOT, but thats if it already runs... If weak spark and gassed up plugs, gonna be hard to start.

[Vigo]

I dunno about trying to crank it with small adjustments to the ignition timing. Just have someone crank it and twist the distributor all the way through its range in one continuous motion. Itll save you a lot of time.

I would think even crappy spark would light starter fluid.

How bout checking the resistance in the coil negative wire between the coil and the ecu connector?

[RoadWarrior222]

Yeah, I've done that, "hunt for spark" you just kinda do a wide swing and zero in where it catches best.

[Orangetona]

Code 23 - charge temp sensor. Not going to affect how it starts.

I'm going to suggest you make small ignition timing adjustments, then crank the engine, then make another small adjustment, then crank the engine until you find the area in which the ignition timing is close enough to run, then properly set the ingition timing with a timing light and coolant sensor unplugged.

I think you're just slightly off.

If it didnt even pop with ether then I doubt its gonna matter in any way if his timing is off. I wouldnt use ether on anything but a tractor btw lol.

Are you grounding the plugs to the head when checking spark, or somewhere else? I feel like ive heard that people have lost ground when the plug is in the head. I dont have any backup info for that though. It really is suspect of ground to me.

Id throw some new plugs at it though and start over again. They could be THAT bad possibly I guess.

[moparman76_69]

change the oil asap and unplug the injector harness until you can get it to hit on starting fluid. Quadruple check all your grounds are in place.