So who is the resident a413 guru?

[4 l-bodies]

I have a low mileage 89 a413 that I would like to do a few mods to. Nothing extreme as this will be for semi mild street duty but would like to firm up shifts. At this point I am not planning on complete teardown and rebuild. It works just fine currently. RMVB is not a realistic option for me. Haven't done many mods to a413's as I prefer manual trannys, so any help is appreciated. Here is what is planned or already done.
Reset bands
Already put plug in case for line pressure adjustments
Already installed drain plug in pan
Purchased reuseable pan gasket
Planning on doing Joe D. bleed mod to valve body to increase line pressure.
Already replaced shuttle valve spring with solid rod. .250 X 1.458"
Going to stick pressure gauge on tranny to set to exact line pressure which is what PSI desired? 75-100?
Ordered ATSG manual
Torque converter?

Question is what to do for accumulator for street duty? Leave it alone, shim it, remove it, block in and out lines in casing, remove spring entirely and use appropriate size spacer? Seems like everyone is got a different opinion/solution for the accumulator.

Valve body shift plate drilling. Seems like this one is all over the map too? Sounds like some sort of Voodoo to me (lol)? I guess big question is... increasing this hole diameter or drilling a hole here causes what changes? Understand what the Joe D. mod does. That one was explained perfectly. What about all the other mods done to the shift plate?

I really would like to know the ramifications of doing the accumulator mods as well as drilling the VB plate. I hate making changes without knowing what cause and effect things make. Can anyone point me to someone or somewhere or explain these mods in some detail? Does the ATSG book go into any of these mods?
Thanks,
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Welcome to my world Todd. I haven't found solid answers yet.

[roachjuice]

Coy Johnson would be the one to ask. DBBMini is his username. He hasn't been on in a while. I'll see if he wants to jump on and help ya out.

[rx2mazda]

NOT SIMON!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?65616-The-king-of-carnage-strikes-again!!!!!!!!!!



:lol:

[4 l-bodies]

Welcome to my world Todd. I haven't found solid answers yet.
Jay,
Yes I have been reading your thread on the accumulator and your other mods. Trying not to let history repeat itself (lol)! I feel your pain bud.
Todd

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------


Coy Johnson would be the one to ask. DBBMini is his username. He hasn't been on in a while. I'll see if he wants to jump on and help ya out.
Thanks for letting him know Brandon.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------


NOT SIMON!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?65616-The-king-of-carnage-strikes-again!!!!!!!!!!

:lol:
Did not see that. Sorry to hear bout that Simon. FWIW I've scattered several manual trannies myself. Make enough HP and you gotta pay the speed gods.
Carroll, time to start knockin on some wood. Karma ya know...
Todd

[turbovanman²]

I can give you a hand in the next few days Todd, just stupid busy and of course, fixing my trans right now, :mad:

But I can't complain, its served me well, :nod:

[RoadWarrior222]

ATSG is basic rebuild info.

I kinda skimmed it last time I looked, but it didn't realllly seem to have a whole lot more than the FSM.

I blocked accumulator on my 3 speed, makes 1-2 firm, but can be harsh if you're just lifting the gas at the time...

Drilling the holes in the VB plate, well, I have a V6 application VB, and 2 of the holes were the "upgraded" size stock, so I just drilled one, which was not all that much smaller than the drill... so I doubt I would have felt much difference over "stock" if I'd have done that separately. I guess it's just tuning for torque handling... older VBs and those from 2.2s and N/A cars might need it more.

It is voodoo, Simon's current difficulties are easily explained by the fact that the last time he worked on it, the correct sacrifice to conclude the ritual was a 2 year old Bantam, hatched at the spring equinox, and he substituted a Rhode Island red.

[turbovanman²]

I have a low mileage 89 a413 that I would like to do a few mods to. Nothing extreme as this will be for semi mild street duty but would like to firm up shifts. At this point I am not planning on complete teardown and rebuild. It works just fine currently. RMVB is not a realistic option for me. Haven't done many mods to a413's as I prefer manual trannys, so any help is appreciated. Here is what is planned or already done.
Reset bands
Already put plug in case for line pressure adjustments
Already installed drain plug in pan
Purchased reuseable pan gasket
Planning on doing Joe D. bleed mod to valve body to increase line pressure.
Already replaced shuttle valve spring with solid rod. .250 X 1.458"
Going to stick pressure gauge on tranny to set to exact line pressure which is what PSI desired? 75-100?
Ordered ATSG manual
Torque converter?

Question is what to do for accumulator for street duty? Leave it alone, shim it, remove it, block in and out lines in casing, remove spring entirely and use appropriate size spacer? Seems like everyone is got a different opinion/solution for the accumulator.

Valve body shift plate drilling. Seems like this one is all over the map too? Sounds like some sort of Voodoo to me (lol)? I guess big question is... increasing this hole diameter or drilling a hole here causes what changes? Understand what the Joe D. mod does. That one was explained perfectly. What about all the other mods done to the shift plate?

I really would like to know the ramifications of doing the accumulator mods as well as drilling the VB plate. I hate making changes without knowing what cause and effect things make. Can anyone point me to someone or somewhere or explain these mods in some detail? Does the ATSG book go into any of these mods?
Thanks,
Todd


I'll post up the drilling of the spacer plate, I basically combined the later Neon holes with the backyarder way and the Superior kit.

Drill the smaller hole in the valve body for line pressure, with the 1/16 hole, no accumulator, its snappy, I might try the accum just to see the difference. Simply install 3/8 plugs into the case and leave the accum in place, that way, if you don't like the shift, remove the plugs and you have an accumulator again.

Are you going to tighten up the clutch packs and remove the spring/wavy clip on the rear drum? This is a must do otherwise it can/will flare and slip with moderate power

Get the Sonnax rear band strut.

TC, TU sells some nice units from Hugh's or on a budget, run the later Neon with the factory bearings.

Governor mods, well every one is different so follow Jay's thread on what he's doing with weights. Years ago, I ran turned up line pressure, no bleed hole, solid large weight and blue spring, hollow small and it shifted around 5800 rpm.

Block the bypass valve too.

Front band is snug then back off 1.5 turns, rear I set with a torque wrench.

Line pressure, you set it by feel and your shifts/timing.

Hope this helps.

[4 l-bodies]

Simon,
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. I too, am extremely busy at the moment, and this needed to be placed on the back burner for the moment.

[turbovanman²]

No problem, plus having to redo my trans took out some time, sigh.

I'll try to find my spacer plate notes and copy it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Found this the other day about drilling the holes.

ordered and received the shift kit a couple days ago, and checked out the instructions and parts to see if I could figure out what was going on in their heads. Anyone who has the shift kit already will know what I'm referring to in the steps. Maybe someone can scan in a couple pics of the instructions so others can follow along. Here's what I think I figured out for the regular/heavy duty instructions:

In the first step it asks to grind some material off the throttle valve and replace it with a supplied "green" spring. At first I thought this mod would cause more sensitive part throttle and WOT kickdowns, and faster rise in line pressure, but after measuring the spring rate, it does the opposite until you're almost at WOT. This mod looks like it allows "stock-like" shift scheduling right up to just before WOT (then goes to WOT shift points which is determined by where line pressure is set), where a stock (unmodified) throttle valve maintains "stock" shift scheduling until around 3/4 throttle, then goes to WOT shift points.

In step 5 where it tells you to drill holes bigger, hole A is an orifice to feed the band for 2nd gear. This is where the check ball can be removed (as per our "homemade" shift kit).
Hole B feeds the front clutch for 3rd gear, and doesn't need to be drilled if the bypass valve is blocked (as per homemade shift kit). If the bypass valve doesn't get blocked, then this hole should be drilled.
Hole C is another feed for 3rd gear (and is drilled bigger in the"homemade").
Hole D is a hole for a shuttling check ball (check ball #9 goes here for anyone who has the hydraulic flow charts). I don't know why they want this hole opened up, as the check ball seals it in every single position that you'd have the shifter in, except "Park". So fluid only flows through this hole when in "P" and I see no advantage to having this hole opened up for when in Park.
Hole E is a tiny orifice to feed the low/reverse band. Opening up this hole will cause harsher engagement into "1" (manual 1st gear) and reverse, but will help prevent overlap on the 1-2 shift *if you're shifting it manually from "1" to "2" or "D".* But on the newer valve bodies, this hole is already opened up, and this orifice is placed upstream in the circuit.

Step 6 tells you to shim the small piston in the kickdown servo. This takes away the "cushioning effect" of the servo for the 1-2 shift as Joe D. mentioned.

Step 7 tells you to put steel sealing rings on the 1-2 accumulator. I think this causes the accumulator to stroke slower during the 1-2 shift. So this will help take some of the "softness" (from accumulator action) out of the shift.

The other steps I left out are pretty much self-expanatory.

Chad Kilback (reverse pattern manual valve body with trans-brake coming
soon)

[4 l-bodies]

Thanks for the update Jay. Sort of lost though without scans of instructions. I have no idea what hole A, B , C, D, E, is (lol).
I will post some pics in next day or two of plate drilling (with drilled measurement sizes vs. stock plate) for a tranny that a well respected guy from my area built for me many years ago. He admitted there wasn't much of a calling for modified 413's so he wasn't as familier with modifying them as other trannys. Tranny worked perfect with one exception, it would shift out of 1st on it's own too EARLY at WOT. Would shift into 2nd whether left in drive or lever in first on it's own at about 4700-4800 RPM on my old shadow. The exact opposite issue many of you guy have. Never bothered to look into it besides adjusting TV cable as it was in my wifes car, which then turned into my winter/parts runner vehicle. 2-3 shift at WOT felt so firm it felt like you were rear ended, yet part throttle shift was just nice and crisp.
One hole that he enlarged a bunch that I thought was strange was the low reverse servo apply (from FSM). I'll post pics when I get caught up.
I've seen this before, a friend of mine a long, long, time ago had a pretty fast 71 Z28 (LT1) with turbo 400 that also shifted out of first by itself, but that one shifted around 7000 RPM. Just about perfect RPM for that motor.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

Scan of Superior size holes/instructions. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/v/Members+Rides/Jay+Jochec/TMTD+pics/valve+body.jpg.html

When I get a chance I'll scan in the pic of what I actually drilled them too which is a combo of the superior kit and what Joe D suggested and whatever else I found out there.

[GLHS60]

Todd:
I really like that shift into 2nd even with the shifter is in low as per T-400 transmissions. I used to bracket race them and tuned the 1-2 shift via the govenor so we used to refer it as a govenor shift, very hard shift and no chance of over reving the engine. Most would govenor shift before 5000 rpm stock but some units like the Z28's often had a model CY trans with a higher factory setting. You can tune the T-400 governor for whatever shift point required and it was very accurate. Hopefully you can keep posting on this as it's a feature I would like to have on my next 413 build.

Thanks
Randy



[/QUOTE]
Tranny worked perfect with one exception, it would shift out of 1st on it's own too EARLY at WOT. Would shift into 2nd whether left in drive or lever in first on it's own at about 4700-4800 RPM on my old shadow. The exact opposite issue many of you guy have. Never bothered to look into it besides adjusting TV cable as it was in my wifes car, which then turned into my winter/parts runner vehicle. 2-3 shift at WOT felt so firm it felt like you were rear ended, yet part throttle shift was just nice and crisp.
One hole that he enlarged a bunch that I thought was strange was the low reverse servo apply (from FSM). I'll post pics when I get caught up.
I've seen this before, a friend of mine a long, long, time ago had a pretty fast 71 Z28 (LT1) with turbo 400 that also shifted out of first by itself, but that one shifted around 7000 RPM. Just about perfect RPM for that motor.
Todd[/QUOTE]

[4 l-bodies]

Okay, had some time to myself so here is shift plates as promised. Here is stock 89 shift plate and one modified by local tranny guy. This guy builds stock trannys for a large well known tranny shop in MPLS area, & HP trannys for bracket racers in MN and western WI. Just not normally HP a413's. This was done about 10 years ago. Jay, looking at your instructions it looks like by far the biggest change was the low reverse servo apply. I posted the "kit" instructions here to view/compare easier, hope your okay with that. Stock 89 vintage was .059, Superior kit "E" .062 and Jeff's is .199.
Todd

[shadow92]

Anyone have pics of the line pressure mod? Im a lil confused on which to do.....

[turbovanman²]

Anyone have pics of the line pressure mod? Im a lil confused on which to do.....

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?6084-Line-pressure-mod-in-valve-body-and-theory

[shadow92]

I need help with what exactly is the best mod to do to the governor: to add different spring use different one or drill it out.... And I cannot get ahold of any 404 steel plates from my local tranny shops any other recomendations or ideas. And I hear there are lot of people using type f fluid and tractor fluid?

[zin]

A little off the main subject, but seems to be a good place to ask...

How/where does one obtain gears to correct ones speedo? I recently swapped wheels/tires on the wagon and the new ones are about 1/2" shorter... Great for acceleration, but makes figuring mileage not so easy!

Mike

[135sohc]

There a few dollars each from the dealership.

What tooth count/color do you have now ?

[4 l-bodies]

A little off the main subject, but seems to be a good place to ask...

How/where does one obtain gears to correct ones speedo? I recently swapped wheels/tires on the wagon and the new ones are about 1/2" shorter... Great for acceleration, but makes figuring mileage not so easy!

Mike
Mike,
This is what I have found to be the correct speedo vs. the size tire your running. FSM doesn't quite list it this way, but if you read between the lines this is what I came up with.

White 21 teeth 22.5-23.5" diameter tires
Blue 20 teeth 23.6-24.5" diameter tires
Yellow 19 teeth 24.6-25.5" diameter tires
Todd

[turbovanman²]

I need help with what exactly is the best mod to do to the governor: to add different spring use different one or drill it out.... And I cannot get ahold of any 404 steel plates from my local tranny shops any other recomendations or ideas. And I hear there are lot of people using type f fluid and tractor fluid?


Governor mods are as needed, so build your trans and see how it shifts, then you figure out what to do or follow the results in the below link. Don't use the Sonnax governor kit.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?65452-Stumped-Car-won-t-shift-out-of-1st-at-WOT&highlight=

For the plates, search online, If I have time, I'll dig up an online place that has them.

Type F is ok, but Tractor fluid I think is better and then there's a Castrol product I was told about, IIRC its called "synergy", have to go check my notes.

[zin]

Mike,
This is what I have found to be the correct speedo vs. the size tire your running. FSM doesn't quite list it this way, but if you read between the lines this is what I came up with.

White 21 teeth 22.5-23.5" diameter tires
Blue 20 teeth 23.6-24.5" diameter tires
Yellow 19 teeth 24.6-25.5" diameter tires
Todd

Awesome! That's just the info I was looking for! I suppose these are all still available through the dealer?

Thanks again!

Mike

[135sohc]

They might be, all the part numbers have changed though. The old numbers all come back as non valid when keyed into most online dealership sites so your gonna have to call and find a nice person on the dealership side to give you the details and information.

[RoadWarrior222]

Btw, the color coding to tire guesstimate might not be right for later applications, I had a transaxle supposed to be from a '98 caravan and it came with a blue gear in it, when the ones in my '88 3.0 and a '89 2.5TBI were yellow.

[wallace]

You can get the 404 steelies here http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=A404. I used them for all of the stuff to rebuild my 413 seemed to be good quality and fast turn around.

[Dohc Rocks]

The Castrol fluid is Transynd.... Its working great for me!

[thedon809]

Lets see here. In my trans i did every valve body mod you could do as per that old website (forgot the name) and blocked accumulator. That thing shifted awesome. I used the sonnax governer kit and my shift points were damn near perfect. If i remember right, 6k 1-2, 5800 2-3.