Stumped, Car won't shift out of 1st at WOT

[GLHNSLHT2]

Need some help from the Auto tranny guys.

In the car I have the free shift kit, I did the Superior kit TV rod mod and added the spring they wanted me to add. I shimmed the intermediate servo with the 2 shims which is the servo closest to the torque converter. I don't know if that's 3rd gear? Oh and I did the Chad Kilback bleed mod with a .040" drill.

I have the line pressure backed out as far as it'll go. I don't have a gauge on it so I don't know how low it is but I can't go any lower.

TV cable is adjusted so there's zero slack at WOT. Can't move the TV arm by hand at WOT.

Why won't it shift? As soon as I lift it shifts. and shifts nice but damn would be nice to have it shift at WOT. If I don't lift it just bounces off the 6500rpm rev limiter.

I don't have a long enough road to see if it'll shift out of 2nd gear at WOT.

The trans is out of an 89 caravan and shifted at WOT before.


Thanks guys

[BadAssPerformance]

You know me, I'm a 5-speed fan... however, both my v8 Dak's have been A518 Automagics. My old one had this happen and it was causes by an improperly adjusted kickdown cable. WOT in 1st to redline, the only way for it to shift was to lift throttle then it would hit 2nd instantly.

Afjusted eth kickdown per the FSM, shifted great after that

[pauly_no_van]

.....

[turbovanman²]

You need to change the big weight-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?62534-Governor-info-for-the-3-speeds.&highlight=governor

[GLHNSLHT2]

you will need either a custom valve made or back out the tv cable adjuster 1 notch at a time til it upshifts again\
and live with however it shifts otherwise after
that.
I personally know when its about to start bouncing and twitch my foot. Bang second gear and bye bye mustang...


What valve has to be custom?

I'll scrap the car before I live with however it shifts.


Do I have the TV cable adjusted properly? I went WOT, pulled up the horseshoe clip, moved the TV cable bracket by hand as far as I could and pushed the horseshoe clip back down. There is now zero slack in it.

From what I was reading last night, Chad said that the TV pressure doesn't affect WOT shift points as it's the same as line pressure at that point.

from the thread simon posted with all the usual conflicting info about Auto transmisions it looks like I need to see if any of the 4 trannys lying on the floor of my shop have TBI weights in them.

[GLHNSLHT2]

This might be the most enlightening bit of info so far.



As for stock turbo governor, with the line pressure turned up, will not shift at WOT!

[turbovanman²]

This is what you need to focus on Jay-


So making the big valve lighter or the spring for it heavier, will lower the WOT shift points.

[GLHNSLHT2]

is the blue spring in the TBI governor heavier?? err Stiffer????


Also, do I have my TV cable adjusted right now?

[GLHS60]

First and easiest thing is to put some slack in the TV cable. No slack at WOT means higest possible shift point. If it shifts when you lift that is the same as putting some slack in the cable.

Thanks
Randy



is the blue spring in the TBI governor heavier?? err Stiffer????


Also, do I have my TV cable adjusted right now?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Thanks, when I 1st got the trans back together it wouldn't shift out of 1st and I could move the TV arm on the trans probably 1/4" or so at WOT. Maybe I'll just disconnect it and try. I do like the way it downshifts with no slack in the cable though.

[turbovanman²]

is the blue spring in the TBI governor heavier?? err Stiffer????


Also, do I have my TV cable adjusted right now?

I think TBI's come with blue springs and solid weights.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm aware that TBI's come with a blue spring and solid weights, what I was asking is is the blue spring stiffer than the orange turbo spring?

[turbovanman²]

Yes, the TBI's shift at a lower rpm, that's what I was getting at.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm aware of that also, if the TBI spring is stiffer than the orange spring then I was thinking of putting it behind the lighter weight of the turbo weight.

[ShadowFromHell]

My NY had this problem after a tranny swap. It was with a stock VB. I talked to a few people and finially went out on the backroads and slowly adjusted the kickdown cable. It took a few tries but I got it right were I wanted it. Still kicks down nice. I suggest trying that.

[turbovanman²]

I'm aware of that also, if the TBI spring is stiffer than the orange spring then I was thinking of putting it behind the lighter weight of the turbo weight.

Then why are you asking? :p

I would start off with the blue spring and heavy weight, then if that is too low, then depending on how low it is, then either use the orange spring or hollow weight and blue spring.

[wallace]

I did the free shift kit and turned the governor pressure up the recommended 2.5 turns. I did this when I freshened the tranny. I used the factory governor that came in the turbo trans. The TV cable has no slack in it at WOT. The 1-2 shift is perfect, the 2-3 could be a little lower as it has stopped pulling when the shift occurs. What does the Superior TV mod do exactly? If it raises the line pressure may be worth a shot to put it back to stock and see if that helps.

[turbovanman²]

What does the Superior TV mod do exactly?

I don't know, but I did notice it just didn't act crisply with throttle control if you get my drift, hard to explain.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well one of the trannies in my shop had TBI weights. Looks like I need to lighten the big valve though. Guess I'll take my spare to work and drill it out.

[turbovanman²]

Did you put the TBI units in? What happened?

[GLHNSLHT2]

not yet, life is getting in the way. So here's my thoughts. Putting the small weight in will lower the shift points if I were just coasting down a hill and hitting speed or light throttle. Lightening the big weight lowers shifts at WOT. But turning up the line pressure raises both shift points right? So right now I like the shift points at light throttle settings 14mph for 1st-2nd , 20ish for 2-3rd. If I were to add the small TBI weight those would drop further right? But upping the line pressure would raise them back up correct?

Now since the trans won't shift at WOT I need to lighten the big valve? Anyone know how much bigger to make the through hole to get a certain weight reduction? Probably trial and error right? But I want to get the WOT shift points way down since right now it's not even shifting at WOT and then turning up the line pressure is also going to increase my WOT shift points as well right?

[turbovanman²]

If your happy with your 1-2 2-3 shifts, leave the little valve alone.

Correct, if you lighten the little valve, the shift times go up, making it heavier makes it shift earlier, raising the line pressure makes it shifter higher. So if you add the heavier TBI small weight, it will shift alot faster, not fun with a turbo car.

You need to make the large valve heavier to lower the WOT shift points, so yeah, its trial and error. I would say with the line pressure you have now, put the heavy TBI weight in and use the orange spring.

[GLHNSLHT2]

If your happy with your 1-2 2-3 shifts, leave the little valve alone.

Correct, if you lighten the little valve, the shift times go up, making it heavier makes it shift earlier, raising the line pressure makes it shifter higher. So if you add the heavier TBI small weight, it will shift alot faster, not fun with a turbo car.

But if I add the TBI small weight, then up the line pressure can I get the shift points back to stock turbo like it is right now?



You need to make the large valve heavier to lower the WOT shift points, so yeah, its trial and error. I would say with the line pressure you have now, put the heavy TBI weight in and use the orange spring.

Whoa?!?! Jdizz says to make the big valve lighter???? Which is it? Jdizz quoted below.


So making the big valve lighter or the spring for it heavier, will lower the WOT shift points.



Making the big valve heavier would be easier, just swap in my TBI valve, Gonna be guessing at making the turbo big weight lighter.

[turbovanman²]

But if I add the TBI small weight, then up the line pressure can I get the shift points back to stock turbo like it is right now?

Sure you could do that but your happy with your shift timing now.


Whoa?!?! Jdizz says to make the big valve lighter???? Which is it? Jdizz quoted below.

Right, my bad, sorry, too much carb cleaner, cleaning out my trans and valve body.



Making the big valve heavier would be easier, just swap in my TBI valve, Gonna be guessing at making the turbo big weight lighter.

So yeah, put the lighter big valve in to lower shift points or lighten it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Large Turbo weight 29.96g. After lightening 28.60g Guess we'll see what that does this weekend. I can go more but thought I'd stop at that.

[GLHS60]

Just curious if you tried any more cable adjustments and if there was any difference?

Thanks
Randy




Thanks, when I 1st got the trans back together it wouldn't shift out of 1st and I could move the TV arm on the trans probably 1/4" or so at WOT. Maybe I'll just disconnect it and try. I do like the way it downshifts with no slack in the cable though.

[GLHNSLHT2]

no, just the original setup that had some slack in it (about 1/2"??) and adjusting it so there was no slack. Both wouldn't shift at WOT but the kick down was a bit nicer with no slack.

[ShadowFromHell]

Like I said, my car did this and adjusting the kickdown fixed it. Im talking a very little amount of moving it. I dont remember how/if it affected down shifts as its been quite a while. But since I dont remember a issue, I doubt there was one.

[GLHNSLHT2]

So, what'll happen if I just disconnect the kickdown cable all together as a test?

[GLHS60]

That's what we're waiting for!!!


Thanks
Randy


So, what'll happen if I just disconnect the kickdown cable all together as a test?

[turbovanman²]

So, what'll happen if I just disconnect the kickdown cable all together as a test?

You can drive for a bit but don't do it for too long, not sure you'll damage anything over the long term though.

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok disconnected TV cable. Floored in 1st gear car shifts at 23-25MPH and approx 3000rpms. So here's my new thoughts for the weekend. Put small TBI weight in governor, put lightened big valve turbo weight in as well. Turn line pressure up a bit as it's too low and the shifts suck. Set TV cable LOOSE! Tighten up slowly till it shifts at WOT in 1st at about where I want it to shift. Assuming the Indy IC flows as well as a Cummins the shift points should be good in the 5700-6grand range.

[GLHS60]

TV cable Nursery Rhyme:

Tight is too high, loose is too low, adjust it some more and let us know !!!

Thanks
Randy






ok disconnected TV cable. Floored in 1st gear car shifts at 23-25MPH and approx 3000rpms. So here's my new thoughts for the weekend. Put small TBI weight in governor, put lightened big valve turbo weight in as well. Turn line pressure up a bit as it's too low and the shifts suck. Set TV cable LOOSE! Tighten up slowly till it shifts at WOT in 1st at about where I want it to shift. Assuming the Indy IC flows as well as a Cummins the shift points should be good in the 5700-6grand range.

[GLHNSLHT2]

haha funny.

I'm about ready to take it to the Calgary Hyundai dealer and have their tech fix the thing.

[GLHS60]

I'm sure Chad could fix it but I was just trying to encourage you to keep on the TV cable. That's why it's adjustable!!

Thanks
Randy




haha funny.

I'm about ready to take it to the Calgary Hyundai dealer and have their tech fix the thing.

[Vigo]

If it upshifts with no kickdown cable hooked up, that means you can adjust it to get your WOT shift points in the ballpark just by using the cable. You're not adjusting to take the slack out, you're adjusting to get the proper shift point. Tightening it the first time just took you in the wrong direction. You needed to loosen it.

Now, just because you can get your WOT shift points in the ballpark on one shift doesnt mean they'll be right on the other one, or that your part throttle kickdown will be right. That's why hydraulic trans are annoying. If you want EVERYTHING how you want it you have to mess with the governor, the valve body, and the cable, and they all sort of interfere with each other so its a pita to get one 'perfect'.

You probably do have some kind of 'problem' if this problem wasnt there at one point and it is now, but you almost certainly CAN patch it up well enough to keep going just by adjusting the kickdown cable some more.

[turbovanman²]

I've spent too many hours to count getting mine to shift the way I want. One night, I had the governor out 4 times, :banghead:


haha funny.

I'm about ready to take it to the Calgary Hyundai dealer and have their tech fix the thing.

:confused: lol.

[GLHNSLHT2]

:confused: lol.


Randy knows what I'm talking about.

[GLHNSLHT2]

ok, so swapped in the TBI small weight and my lightweight turbo big weight. Turned up the line pressure. Question, when you start turning it up a lot does the spring make noise as if it's slipping each turn? Cause mine does and I'm worried that I might of stripped the adjusting screw. But I'll drop the pan later and see. Car shifts at 13mph and 19mph just barely on the gas. Floored it was 25MPH and 35MPH or so. So I adjusted the TV cable tight like I had it.

Car shifts into 2nd at WOT at 6grand even! And HARD! Not sure if I could hear the tires chirp or not. PERFECT IMO.

But 3rd gear hits about 4grand maybe 4500. Too early. How to I get it to shift to 3rd higher?

Thanks guys!

[turbovanman²]

Yes, you can hear spring noise.

Not sure how to adjust for 3rd, just manually shift from 2-3, that's what I do, let the trans shift from 1-2.

[GLHNSLHT2]

if I'm going to manually shift it I'd put the Manual valve body in.

[Vigo]

I think you'd strip the hex part before the threads on that adjuster.. i wouldnt worry about that.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I only worry because when I was turning the line pressure down it got to the end and just free spun. When I turned it back up I didn't really guide it onto the threads I just turned it until It started to move. It was pretty tight at 1st and even when I put it all back together. Well yesterday after getting it back together and going on my test run I pulled over, pulled the plug and started upping the line pressure. After about 4 turns it started turning really easy and each time around you could hear the spring making a skipping noise.

I have to pull the pan again anyway because once again a bolt stripped out, one is going to strip i don't know how it didn't. I think I might just wait and get enough heli-coils to do the whole pan flange. But I'll check in then and swap it with a good one if it's bad.



So Anyone know how to get the shift to just 3rd gear to happen later?????

[GLHS60]

Getting very picky now!!!!! LOL

Thanks
Randy


if I'm going to manually shift it I'd put the Manual valve body in.

[GLHNSLHT2]

oh thanks you're a lot of help there Randy :)

[dwh4784]

The manual valve body is amazing. You think it chirped going into 2nd? Try the manual one and see how hard it can really shift.:eyebrows:

The only thing that I didn't like about it was the 3-2 downshift, it could get annoying on a DD and you really had to be careful who you let drive it.

[turbovanman²]

if I'm going to manually shift it I'd put the Manual valve body in.

I don't mind shifting from 2-3 around town or at the track, it makes it easier to drive sometimes, or when I am lazy daily driving it, I just leave it in D.


I only worry because when I was turning the line pressure down it got to the end and just free spun. When I turned it back up I didn't really guide it onto the threads I just turned it until It started to move. It was pretty tight at 1st and even when I put it all back together. Well yesterday after getting it back together and going on my test run I pulled over, pulled the plug and started upping the line pressure. After about 4 turns it started turning really easy and each time around you could hear the spring making a skipping noise.

So Anyone know how to get the shift to just 3rd gear to happen later?????

Which way are you turning the adjuster? Clockwise lowers line pressure, and I just tried it, you can easily tell when you've bottomed it out.

Not sure how to fix your shift, mine will shift around 7K if I let it.

[GLHNSLHT2]

The manual valve body is amazing. You think it chirped going into 2nd? Try the manual one and see how hard it can really shift.:eyebrows:

The only thing that I didn't like about it was the 3-2 downshift, it could get annoying on a DD and you really had to be careful who you let drive it.


I'm sure it is amazing, I just don't want to be shifting it constantly. It's an Auto for a reason.

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 PM ----------


I don't mind shifting from 2-3 around town or at the track, it makes it easier to drive sometimes, or when I am lazy daily driving it, I just leave it in D.



Which way are you turning the adjuster? Clockwise lowers line pressure, and I just tried it, you can easily tell when you've bottomed it out.

Not sure how to fix your shift, mine will shift around 7K if I let it.


I'm turning it counterclockwise. If I get some time this weekend I'm taking it out and putting the TV rod back to stock. Wish I had found Chad's post before doing this. I'll check to make sure the adjuster is turning properly then.

I also need to heli-coil almost every one of the pan holes so need to pick up some more heli-coils.

[turbovanman²]

I'm turning it counterclockwise. If I get some time this weekend I'm taking it out and putting the TV rod back to stock. Wish I had found Chad's post before doing this. I'll check to make sure the adjuster is turning properly then.

I also need to heli-coil almost every one of the pan holes so need to pick up some more heli-coils.

So are you turning up the line pressure? I tried just tried again on a spare valve body and when bottoming out the adjuster, it really gets hard to turn, I forced it and it will stop, if you really force it, you can still make it turn a bit more, so maybe you did it backwards and the adjuster plate came off?

Yeah, I've stripped out a few threads, :banghead:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm turning the screw the right way, going to have to wait till I get the pan off to see if the adjuster is actually moving though.