3.0 sohc build

[Wiscoballer]

Well, I figure its time to start my thread. I won't have much progress to show until I get back home from school, but I got a bit of work done over easter.

Starting point:
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3208-1.jpg

Large rust hole below gas cap, few small ones on the roof, factory "racing stripes"

Grill painted black, planning the same for all the interior trim.

Motor Modifications planned:

ported intake
ported 52mm throttle body (Here)
new exhaust
T3 Turbo, 60 Trim
2.25" downpipe
diamante cams
new headers (flanges on the way)
MegaSquirt
Bigger injectors
plenum spacers (material on the way)

Interior Modifications
Replace broken trim (arrived)
Plastic trim painted black
Race Seats (Sparco hopefully)
5 Point harnesses

Suspension
R/T suspension, looking at:
KYB Adjustable Struts
Koni Shocks
Strut Bar
Sway Bar

Exterior mods:
fmic
rework front bumper for intake/fmic
paint
trim delete
functional hood scoop (debating this, or turbo through hood)
Replace fog lights (on the way)

My WTB thread for this build:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?65366-WTB-Looking-for-MS-Suspension-Turbo-for-a-Spirit&p=908392#post908392

[c2xejk]

Well, I figure its time to start my thread. I won't have much progress to show until I get back home from school, but I got a bit of work done over easter.

Welcome!


Starting point:


Large rust hole below gas cap, few small ones on the roof, factory "racing stripes"

Grill painted black, planning the same for all the interior trim.

Motor Modifications planned:

ported intake
ported 52mm throttle body
new exhaust
mitsu turbo
2.25" downpipe
fmic
diamante cams
new pistons
full rebuild
new headers
MegaSquirt
Bigger injectors (on the way, believe 37 lb/hr?)



Which 'mitsu' turbo? You are likely going to want a fairly sizable turbo like a T3/T4 hybrid with a 60-trim...

The down-pipe you want for a turbo would be 2.5" or 3" (or larger if you are going really radical.)

I would skip the diamante cams and go with a regrind. You could probably run a race regrind if you have a valve job done and have the machinest set the valve tip height higher than stock. Let me know if you want some help with this.


Interior Modifications
Plastic trim painted black
Race Seats (Sparco hopefully)
5 Point harnesses

Back when I was planning on running normally-aspirated I was toying with light weight racing seats. In my research I found that it is 'highly recommended' that you have a roll-bar before you go with racing seats and/or 5-point harness. Basically in a rollover, the stock seats and belts give you room to slump/move when the roof collapses. Without that room, very bad things can happen...


Suspension
Koni struts(r/t)
1" lowering springs
monroe gas shocks

Unless you have the Koni struts and springs (or are planning on modifying struts for another vehicle,) you might want to look at going with a coil-over setup. Wide range of parts to tune the suspension with and more adjustability for the ride height...


Exterior mods:
rework front bumper for intake/fmic
paint
trim delete
functional hood scoop (debating this, or turbo through hood)

[Wiscoballer]

Welcome!



Which 'mitsu' turbo? You are likely going to want a fairly sizable turbo like a T3/T4 hybrid with a 60-trim...
one off of a 2.5 L I4

The down-pipe you want for a turbo would be 2.5" or 3" (or larger if you are going really radical.)

I don't plan on going very radical. I want to be running around 250 HP, so I am fine with a smaller downpipe

I would skip the diamante cams and go with a regrind. You could probably run a race regrind if you have a valve job done and have the machinest set the valve tip height higher than stock. Let me know if you want some help with this.

Might want help, but looking to keep it cheap. I have access to mills/lathes at school, and plan on using them as much as possible.



Back when I was planning on running normally-aspirated I was toying with light weight racing seats. In my research I found that it is 'highly recommended' that you have a roll-bar before you go with racing seats and/or 5-point harness. Basically in a rollover, the stock seats and belts give you room to slump/move when the roof collapses. Without that room, very bad things can happen...

Good to know. I wanted racing seats more for looks, but I was thinking of putting together a bolt together roll cage for the interior.


Unless you have the Koni struts and springs (or are planning on modifying struts for another vehicle,) you might want to look at going with a coil-over setup. Wide range of parts to tune the suspension with and more adjustability for the ride height...

Also good to know. I plan on trying to keep this cheap, and was hoping to find someone parting a R/T that had recently replaced suspension parts.



Thanks!

[c2xejk]

The mitsu turbo off a Chrysler 2.5L I-4 is definitely WAY too SMALL! I ran a garret from a 2.2L which is a bigger turbo and that was really too small. right now there appear to be several good cheap turbos that will work way better.

For the downpipe, I really wouldn't go smaller than a 2.5"

If you put a roll-bar in, make sure you follow the NHRA guidelines in case you ever take it to the track.

There are a lot of ebay coil-over kits that will work ok.

Ed Kelly
www.kmperformance.com

[Ondonti]

You can always go with a seat that is more race inspired but not a death trap in a cageless car.
Bigger turbo, bigger exhaust.
What year car is that? I got the side skirts and front bumper off an older AA body years ago but I lost the side skirts at someone elses house. I don't know what trimlevel that is and have not seen one since.

[Wiscoballer]

It is a 1990 Spirit ES. I will look into turbos, but I find the Mitsu's for $40. i was thinking 2 small ones=1 big one? Like, run one off each header, instead of just one off the crosspipe. still thinking, havent bought too much yet, just the TB, fuel injectors, and a trim piece (broke off taking my backpack out last year)

Just polished up the throttle body.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3210.jpg

[MC#4]

Always good to see another 3.0 build. Keep this thread updated and don't hesitate to ask questions.

[Wiscoballer]

I am sure I will ask quite a few, as I have almost no experience with turbos... :o

[Sundance 6g72]

i would go wish kyb gas adjust rear shocks personally. the konis up front is nice though!

dont get those cams unless you find them for a cheep price. they help but the money is better spent on other things usually.

i think those injectors are a good choice too. The exhaust needs to be bigger though.

[Wiscoballer]

Planning on a bigger exhaust, but not going for the cat delete like you did. Trying to find stuff used but not abused, so kinda in the "show me what you got" stage. I understand the cams are overrated, but I was thinking that they would be helpful with the turbo, as the intake would be extended.

[Sundance 6g72]

they are deff helpful but its hard to justify lets say.. $50 for them. I got mine for $20 so it was no big deal.

it just depends i guess. The difference in duration is very little and i think the lift is the same as stock. just a fun mod really. I used dsm headbolts as my main crank cap bolts but it was totally unnecessary.. just something fun.

feel free to smooth out the throttle body. see that lip in the bore of the TB (looking at the pic). This is a fun mod too and wont really do much but it cant hurt.

i have a ported upper plenum i could sell ya for a few bucks. it still needs some more porting doen to it but most of the work is done already. if you have the time, you could port yours or grab a second one from a local junkyard.


my issue with the stock cat staying in place is that its small and wont flow well. a turbo on a 3.0 will make it feel great no matter what but it wont be as fast as it could be. I would recommend a magnaflow high flow 3inch cat but some say they dont actually work as well as a regular restrictive car.


something cool would be a cutout right before the cat. run like a 3inch downpipe into the stock exhaust and have the cutout right where the 3inch ends. you can be loud and fast when you want, and then legal when you want. just some thoughts.

[Wiscoballer]

Might take that plenium off you. Gonna put it under the mill and smooth it all out. I plan on having a daily driver that can hit a few tracks, but mainly be driven as a point a to point b car. I am going to most likely pull the TB apart, and stick it in the lathe, and bore it out a bit.

[Ondonti]

I would get the megasquirt running before you step from the boltons to turbo setup. 50 dollars is not bad for cams since junkyard prices are not the same for everyone. There are a lot of things you will do for 50 dollars that sure don't help much so its not like the cams are a ripoff. 3" catco cat works fine and if you have stock ignition timing will pass emissions. I removed mine and am saving it for whenever I might want to use it.

[Wiscoballer]

I don't have emissions testing, as WI doesn't require it. I am simply hoping to keep it as stock as possible, hence the "Budget Build" atmosphere. I am concerned about my fuel injectors, as the ones I was supposed to be recieving have been replaced by hershey's chocolate bars...

[Sundance 6g72]

first off, file a claim with paypal (i hope you did it threw paypal)

you can run 3800 supercharged injectors from a poniac (they are high impedence) youl want to do some research on what year had certain sizes.

[Wiscoballer]

No, I worked a deal with Username, where he would ship them, and I would send back cookies. I sent a picture of what I recieved to him, but he has not responded. Gotta wait this one out...

Edit: He said that is not what he shipped. I will need to investigate this further.

[c2xejk]

It is a 1990 Spirit ES. I will look into turbos, but I find the Mitsu's for $40. i was thinking 2 small ones=1 big one?

True, but the complexity level rises pretty quickly... One large turbo is physically only slightly larger than a small turbo. Then you have a myriad of pipes and hoses that you have to buy/fabricate/run. (intake piping, exhaust piping, oil supply and return lines, etc.) I can see the cost of the extras quickly out pacing the cost of one properly sized turbo from somewhere like CXRacing... Then there is the issue of finding space for the extra turbo and its supporting parts...

For reference the turbo below is ~$240

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=TRB-T3T4-V&Category_Code=T3T4

[Wiscoballer]

if it is only slightly larger, then why would it make a huge difference? sorry if it is a stupid question. I am not going for an all out build, I simply want to add a bit of horsepower to my car.

[TainterRacing]

Physical size of the turbo don’t tell the story to well. It matters what the wheel sizes are and the Mitsubishi ones are going to be too small unless you were to run td06.

[Wiscoballer]

think the 3800 SC injectors are good? I know Sundance said they are, and I have a bead on a set for cheap (less than $50), but if people have a better idea, im open to it.

[Sundance 6g72]

you seem to be keeping up on this thread so i wont bother returning the pm, ill just post in here.

I run the 3800SC injectors. back when i found them, i did the research and found them to be either 33 or 36#. They just dropped right in. I would not run them on a stock ecu unless you lower the base pressure to like 30psi or something.

They are high impedence so make sure your ecu supports that (megasquirt likes high impedence)

[Wiscoballer]

http://www.gmtuners.com/flow/index.htm

(http://www.gmtuners.com/flow/index.htm)found this, shows that series 1 are about 29 Lb/Hr.

Are the stock ones low or high impedance?

[Wiscoballer]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-99-DODGE-NEON-FRONT-UPPER-POLISHED-STRUT-BAR-JDM-STYLE-1ST-GEN-/120799389381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1995%7CModel%3ANeon&hash=item1c203466c5&vxp=mtr#ht_713wt_1270

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-99-DODGE-NEON-FRONT-UPPER-POLISHED-STRUT-BAR-JDM-STYLE-1ST-GEN-/120799389381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1995%7CModel%3ANeon&hash=item1c203466c5&vxp=mtr#ht_713wt_1270)Will this work with my car?

[Sundance 6g72]

not sure if it will clear the hood. neon bars have to be re drilled to fit as well.


as for the injectors, i have no idea about sizes. i determined mine where 33 or 36 a long time ago. cant remember what year car they are from.

high or low impedance is dependent on your year ecu. Not that it should matter, if you go megasquirt, you need high impedance. stock injector size is 19# btw.

[Wiscoballer]

good to know about the neon bar, I thought the first gen bars bolted right in. Series 2 are 36 LB/Hr, thats prob what you got. I wirant to be able to run on stock computer as well as MS just in case MS is acting up, or if I push MS off a bit.

[Wiscoballer]

looks like a found a T3 Turbo thats a 60Trim, needs a rebuild, but $50 asking isnt bad.

[Ondonti]

I don't think the turbo sizing is heading in the right direction here.
Picking the wrong turbo and trying to fix it with nitrous...that will just make thing worse.

[Wiscoballer]

I am not trying to fix it with nitrous, its just an option. the turbo I found seemed quite similar to the one c2x recommended.

[Sundance 6g72]

try and find the actual wheel dimensions. i got lucky with mine. all i know about it is its a 63trim with a .60ar or something like that. lol

rebuilding turbos is not to hard if you take your time the first time through

drilling the neon bar is not hard but that bar looks to be too tall but its hard to say.

[Wiscoballer]

T3 flanged T60 turbo thats siezed (just needs a rebuild) - $50

Thats what I know. I asked him for photos, I will post them when I get them. I didn't think it would be that hard. The other turbos he has for sale are:
T3 flanged T70 turbo - $150 (Has some shaft play but didn't smoke)
Brand new still in the box, T4 flanged T60 turbo - $300
CT10 turbo works good and no shaft play Mitsu flange/garrett - $75 (smaller then a T25)
16g knock off turbo with shaft play - $75

I don't want to pay the $300, as I can get that one that c2j posted for less. The CT10 would be too small, and I am unsure of the 16g

[c2xejk]

if it is only slightly larger, then why would it make a huge difference? sorry if it is a stupid question. I am not going for an all out build, I simply want to add a bit of horsepower to my car.

A increases by the square of the radius. So you don't have to double the radius to double the area. Area of the turbine exducer (exit of the hot side) is generally indicative of the exhaust side hp capability.

The turbo I am currently running (a T3/T40B w/stage 3 turbine wheel) is not much (physically) bigger than a Mitsu, but flows and performs much better because the wheels are bigger. It supports 300whp @ ~9psi. The car idles at 21.5"Hg.

[Sundance 6g72]

keep in mind ed has his ported heads, ported intake, and his awsome header with an external wastegate while making that 300whp. it all works together


something to keep in mind, the internal wastegates on the cheep turbos will most likely be to small for our engines. an external wastegate would be needed or porting of the internal wastegate. My car right now rips past 8psi like its nothing. still need to install my external gate.

[Wiscoballer]

was planning on an external, hence why I am trying to pick up a cheaper turbo, save room in the budget for the extras

[c2xejk]

If you are handy, rebuilding a turbo is not too difficult. Just need to make sure the wheels have not touched/been damaged.

[Wiscoballer]

is there a better turbo out of that list?

[Vigo]

I think we need to go over what makes up a turbo..

If we think of the compressor inlet as the 'front', then let's go front to back..

Compressor cover, compressor wheel, compressor backplate, center section, turbine wheel, turbine housing. Those are the major pieces. A really complete, accurate for sale listing will name most of those pieces (naming all is rare because some are interconnected and when you specify one you imply the other). MOST listings might name one or two of those pieces, maybe not correctly, and then make up some bullshit term that they think encompasses the whole thing when it really tells you jack ----. For example, 'trim' numbers are meaningless without knowing the compressor wheel 'family' (specifically the exducer diameter) but there are a lot of listings that just say 'XX trim turbo'.

Of that list, the 't4-flanged t60' sounds like the best fit for a 3.0 to me. The t4-flange is referring to the turbine inlet flange, where the turbo bolts to the exhaust manifold. There are lots of other flanges on a turbo but usually when people talk about a turbo flange they are talking about the turbine inlet flange. T4 is a garrett 'family' of turbos although you will see turbos and turbine housings that use the t4 flange without being based on garrett designs. The 't60' is a misnomer as far as i know. It is probably referring to a t04e 60-trim compressor side (compressor side refers to the compressor wheel, cover, and backplate when i use it..). That compressor side would be a decent fit for the 3.0 motor. Unfortunately, that description doesnt tell you what turbine wheel or housing is on that turbo, and that COULD be a dealbreaker.

Every compressor wheel and turbine wheel has an inducer diameter, and an exducer diameter. You really need to know these numbers to be completely sure what a turbo is because most people dont know how to refer to turbos and will just give you some made up half-baked term when describing what they're trying to sell to you. My .02 on turbo sizing for a street-driven turbo 3.0 is try to find a compressor wheel with an inducer diameter between 55-62mm and dont worry about the exducer diameter too much. That should be your starting point for 'is this turbo even in the ballpark'. Then look at the turbine diameter and try to get an exducer diameter somewhere in the 55-60mm region. Im willing to bet that regardless of brand/family/style/flange etc etc etc, most of the turbos that our 3.0 users here would call 'a good fit' will fall within those number ranges.

[Ondonti]

60 trim t3 turbo is not anything like a 60 trim t04e series wheel. Its like running an upgraded t1 garrett.
T4 is nowhere in that description Vigo. My financial advice would be to never buy something unless you are sure what it is or are willing to buy something else when it doesn't work out. If you are going to use it no matter what, don't buy a mistake.


That said. Nitrous to make up for the wrong turbo is a huge waste of money that you keep wasting. Its worth it to buy the right product the first time, especially when your nitrous kit and refilling costs a lot more then the right size turbo ever will.

[Vigo]

Brand new still in the box, T4 flanged T60 turbo - $300

That's out of his post.. So yes t4 IS in there. But it's still a ---- description and might not even be a t4 turbo. :(

[Wiscoballer]

Like I said, the t4 is more expensive than the one c2j mentioned, so it is not an option. I will wait for pictures of the t3, and post them up.

He emailed me back, said I would get pics tomorrow. 16G is pending for friday, so it looks like the CT10 or the T3 are my main options, followed by the T70

[Ondonti]

the t4 could be a 60-1 which would be a great turbo...except that the turbine side would be a mystery.

[RoadWarrior222]

Are the stock ones low or high impedance?Good question on a '90, 91 and later would be high, and '89 and earlier would be low methinks. Got some suspicion that there was a half year changeover.... but it's been too long since I read up on it.

[Wiscoballer]

I hope not, my 90 was an 08/89 assembly...

[Sundance 6g72]

kmperformance.com has a write up on the emanage piggy back. it goes into detail on high and low impedance stock injectors. id look it up for you but i have to go soon.


edit: why are you worried about impedence if your going megasquirt?

[Wiscoballer]

because I want to use the stock computer until I get megasqurit, and I want to add the injectors when I get them, not just when I get megasquirt.

Edit: 92+ is High, Before 92 is low. Darn.

[c2xejk]

A Greddy e-Manage has the ability to drive 2 auxiliary injectors. So you could use it to provide extra fuel. The cheap but less tunable option is to use an FMU (aka RRG) which increases the fuel pressure in boost faster than 1:1. On my Spirit I am running a 10:1 FMU along with 36# injectors with the base fuel pressure down ~20psi. The Greddy e-Manage fills in some gaps (0-2psi of boost and at higher RPM were the flow of the ported heads diverges from stock heads.)

Ed Kelly
www.kmperformance.com

[Wiscoballer]

Ed,

Do you still have any of those 3.0L flanges? I'd take a set from you, especially being how much of a help you are.

[Sundance 6g72]

last i knew, he dosnt have them

this is what you need

http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/flanges-custom-waterjet-cutting-36/header-flanges-194/mitsubishi-197/mitsubishi-6g72-sohc-header-flange-1-2-mild-steel-2339.html

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------

why do you want to add injectors right away? you wont need them until the turbo is on and you cant run the turbo without the megasquirt (or some other way of fueling while in boost)


your going to run VERY rich while wide open throttle unless you get a fuel pressure regulator that is adjustable and to be honest, thats a waste of money if you plan on going with megasquirt anyways. megasquirt dosnt need the pressure to be lowered.

[Wiscoballer]

Alright, I understand. I won't get anything else until I get MegaSquirt, I just am not 100% sure of myself tuning it. I ordered gaskets from RockAuto, just gonna pattern them off that, saw the lab has quite a bit of plate steel laying around, so I should be fine getting the spacers and the flanges cut.

[Wiscoballer]

gonna see if I can scoop this up for cheap, I see the MS kits are 300 plus assembly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Power-XMS-V3-Engine-management-system-/110857983887?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19cfa6978f&vxp=mtr&autorefresh=true#ht_500wt_1287

[c2xejk]

I don't sell them, but Juggy has a set he bought from me forsale on this board.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?64993-3.0L-header-flanges-5-16-quot-thick&highlight=juggy

[Wiscoballer]

good to know, didn't know if you were sitting on a set. I posted in his thread, as well as messaged him.

[Sundance 6g72]

uhhh dont just buy any megasquirt kit. it has to be set up for our ignition specificly.

[Wiscoballer]

I understand that, but this isnt a megasquirt kit.

[Wiscoballer]

what do people think of the 16G? I know the DSM's used it, specs would be:




Turbo: Greddy TD05-16G

Compressor:

Wheel Trim: 16G60[/URL]

Inducer Dia: 1.83"/46.5mm

Exducer Dia: 2.236/57mm

Housing: TD05

CFM: 520@2PR

Turbine:

Wheel Trim: TD05H

Exducer Dia: 1.93"/49mm

Inducer Dia: 2.20"/56mm

Flange Style, Housing Size: TD05H6,7,8cm23bolt







Map at: [URL]http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/td05h-16gsmall-cfm.gif (http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/td05h-16gsmall-cfm.gif)


I see the exducer would be what was recommended, and DSM turbos are a dime a dozen.

[Sundance 6g72]

its to small but somewhat close. I think the 16g was used on the shelby 3.0 prototypes and it had a hard time keeping up at high rpm.

[c2xejk]

The turbine wheel exducer is too small... You will want something in the 55mm-60mm range.

[Wiscoballer]

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/turbo3.jpg
Turbo would be on left
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/turbo2.jpg
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/turbo1.jpg
Turbo is one closest to box. For reference, the small one on the right is the mitsu turbo.

[RoadWarrior222]

See the little fella over on the right, what cute little buggers they are, adopt two of them :eyebrows:

[Wiscoballer]

that was my plan, but then I got yelled at on here for trying to make it too complicated...

[Wiscoballer]

does it look good? Looking to pick it up for $40

[Ondonti]

Looks like a broken impeller on that bigger turbo. Two turbos = double the cost of parts, but probably even more then double to make things work.

[Vigo]

I agree with Ed, the 16g turbine side is too small for a 3.0L. In the case of a mitsu turbo like that, the 16g is referring to the compressor side, and the td05 is referring to the turbine side. Td05 is pretty much too small for a 3.0L. There is such a thing as a td06 but they are not common, you rarely see them for sale. The vast majority of the turbos for sale at any given time are catered towards 4cyls. Sometimes the compressor side is ok for a 3.0L but the exhaust side usually isnt.

Its hard to know exactly what that t4 turbo is without measurements but im willing to bet it's workable as far as size. Condition looks like a bit of a risk. Is there a chunk missing from the top of one of the compressor blades? The fact that the nut is missing on the compressor wheel means the wheels have probably rotated relative to each other so unless the components are individually balanced (maybe they are, but i bet that was before a chunk was missing from that wheel..), you would probably want to send it off to be balanced as an assembly after rebuilding it with new bearings and seals. By the time you get done with all that you'll probably have $200 in it (40 turbo plus ~50 rebuild kit plus $100 balance w/shipping?) and you might be able to get something that would take less time and work at that price if you keep shopping.

[c2xejk]

Looking at it, I am not sure the nut is just missing. It looks to me like it may have been sheared off... If so, that would make the turbo pretty much useless...

[Wiscoballer]

well I may pull the trigger on it after looking at it. He said he would take $40, so we will see.

[Sundance 6g72]

to be honest, something isnt right if its $40. lol. i wouldnt chance it unless you are open and 100% willing to rebuild and buy extra parts. might turn into a headache but noone gets anywhere without trying.

[Wiscoballer]

I plan on rebuilding it, he said it is an off brand, and I see rebuild kits are $30 on ebay. $70 for a turbo is cheap to me.

[Sundance 6g72]

my cheepy brand new was $150. Just saying. you know it wont have been messed with and dont need to worry about balancing and stuff.

[Wiscoballer]

I cant find a turbo brand new on ebay for less than 250...

Anyways, he is bringing it by monday night. I will check it out, and if it seems to look good, I will pick it up, and grab some measurements. Worst case, I throw it back on craigslist, and start over on the hunt.

[Wiscoballer]

after further research, the turbo I am going to look at tomorrow is a copy of the garrett T70

[Vigo]

Ok. It is definitely bigger than it needs to be and that's going to affect your spool. Unless you do a bunch of mods to move the motor's powerband up (the turbo doesnt really count) you're going to have a fairly narrow powerband with that turbo.

I was looking over your original post trying to narrow down the turbo thing. As far as a t3 goes, you COULD use a t3 turbine, but you'd be looking for a stage 3 turbine in a .63 or larger housing, and a t4 compressor side, so it would be a t3/t4 hybrid. Theres a lot of those out there, they are extremely popular. The main thing is the wheel stage on the turbine. Stg1 is way too small, stg2 is slightly too small/borderline acceptable, stg3 is ok for a street car, and stg5 is too big. There is no stg4. So if you found a stg3 in a .63 a/r t3 housing you'd be ok, and since your power goals are fairly low (as far as i can tell) you'd be ok with pretty much any t4 compressor side that has a ~52-62mm inducer. That t70 you're looking at has a 70mm inducer, it's WAY too big (i.e. 800hp capable). The t04e wheels you could use would be 50 trim, super 50 trim, 54, 57, and 60 trim. The t04b wheels you could use would be the V and H trim ones. If you happen to come across any t04s you could use the 48, 52, or 56 trim of those.

All of those wheels fall within a 53-58 mm inducer range which will easily support the power you plan to make without being so much bigger (overkill) that they stick you with a bunch of extra lag and no benefit.

[Wiscoballer]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T70-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-59-TRIM-0-7-A-R-COMPRESSOR-62-TURBINE-UPGRADE-600-HP-/200702788529?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ebad183b1&vxp=mtr

pretty sure this is the one I am looking at

[c2xejk]

If that is truly a T70 compressor wheel, it is way big... Most/all of the operating points will be in the surge zone...

[Vigo]

That is not a t70. All of the "t-series" t4 wheels have the inducer diameter in the name. So T70 = 70mm inducer. The turbo in that link is smaller than a t70 at 56mm inducer. In fact, the compressor side looks good.. but the turbine is too big. That ~74mm outer diameter is massive, and that's going to mean unresponsive/'laggy'.

Another thing about turbo sizing.. the smaller diameters on both wheels will basically characterize how much air it can flow in and out (i.e. it's 'hp potential') but the bigger diameters have more of an effect on lag. Compressors with larger exducer diameters (the bigger one on the compressor) usually perform better at high pressure ratios (higher boost) than wheels with smaller exducers, but since your 3.0 will not need or use that big of a pressure ratio, you dont really need to look for anything particular on compressor exducer.

Anyway, half of that turbo is right. Keep searching. This will pay off with a good driving car when you find the right one.

[Wiscoballer]

any of this useful? I know the pump will be nice, but anything else good?
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2938903971.html

[Vigo]

The adjustable fuel pressure regulator actually fits on the 2.2/2.5 fuel rail iirc but it's not of MUCH use to you, although you could rig it to work if you wanted to. The pump is an upgrade but since the wires and the regulator arent much use to you you'd basically be paying full new price for a used 255.

[Wiscoballer]

thought so lol. How is this turbo? Just found it, obviously I would be asking less than what he is asking.
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2933057222.html

[Sundance 6g72]

looks like my turbo with a smaller compressor wheel. by just making a guess, i would say its not a good fit. would also be nice to know what brand (even if its knock off)

[Vigo]

Hard to tell what that is. I was trying to identify the turbine but i cant. I have pics of stg 1,2,3, and 5 in T3 turbine wheels in chrysler-style t3 housings. None of them look quite like that.

For one thing, that turbine has 12 blades while all the t3 pics i have show either 10 or 11. It looks to be bigger than a stage 1 in size, but that's all i can say.

The compressor side looks like one of the smaller t4 compressor wheels, maybe in the 50-55mm inducer range just making an educated guess.

So i would say it's on the small side of ideal, but it could definitely work if you were ok with that.

Here are the pics i have of the different t3 turbine wheels for reference in future searching.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/stockvsstg2.jpg
Stg1 and Stg2
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/stage3_turbine.jpg
Stg3
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/t34e_stage5_turbine.jpg
Stg5

[TainterRacing]

That last turbo you posted there looks to have a td06 turbine I would gues its some high bread deal. As far as I know thats about one of the only oes that come in 12 vanes.

Here is some help ull info on Turbines
They are listed in order now how much they flow low to highest as you can see the wheel size dont allways mean it will flow more then a smaller one. Some of them are very close to the same flow

Diff. housings will all so make it flow less but its going to give you an I dea any how.

TD05----55.8---- 47.5
TD05H-- 55.8 --- 49
HX30--- 65.5--- 52
TD06--- 65 ---- 55 Mhi 12 blade
TD06sl2--61---- 54 After market 11 blade
T31----- 65----- 56.6 AKA Stage III
HY35---- 65------ 58 Also used in HE341CW, and
TD06H--- 67.31--- 58.8 Mhi 12 blade
TD06H----67.14----58.8 After market 11 blade
HX35---- 70------ 60
GT30 ---- ?------- 60
GT35---- 68------ 62.3
T352---- 70----- 61.87 AKA StageV
P Trim---- 74---- 64.5
HX40--- 76----- 64? 67?
GT40 --- 77----- 68

[Sundance 6g72]

what about a 20g with a tdo6 housing


if i set this up right, it looks pretty good.

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph.php?version=4&pr0=1&pr1=1.07&pr2=1.38&pr3=1.69&pr4=1.69&pr5=1.69&pr6=1.69&pr7=1.69&airflow0=49&airflow1=158&airflow2=230&airflow3=314&airflow4=374&airflow5=400&airflow6=439&airflow7=449&product_id=91

[Wiscoballer]

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2953505248.html

m (http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/2953505248.html)ust resist, must resist....

[87turbodance]

I run GP 3800 GT (N/A) injectors in my motor and they work well. I believe they are either 19 or 21 lb/hr. I'm only running them as an experiment. I can't recall if I used the 3800 injector r-rings or the 3.0 injector o-rings. The injectors I run are the pencil style L36 after 2000.
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/madmax032/3800Injectors.jpg

The 97-03 L67 (3800SC) should be 33 lb/hr if I remember correctly. The ? - 96 L67 injectors should be the older style 36 lb/hr injectors.

[RoadWarrior222]

Were there any older low impedance in similar apps?

[Wiscoballer]

I can also run turbo 2.2/2.5 injectors, they are Low Impedance

[Sundance 6g72]

how many times to i have to say that megasquirt prefers high impedence injectors. And if your not going to run new injectors until you install megasquirt, why bother with low impedence.

[RoadWarrior222]

Got low impedance SMEC

[Irocelectric93]

If you go with megasquirt go with High Z injectors. Unless you want a peak and hold board installed in which you then could run Low Z instead. As far as cheap injectors that flow alot....low Z is better in that department.

[Wiscoballer]

I am still debating megasquirt. I may just hold off and turbo it without megasquirt, and run turbo injectors.

[Vigo]

You understand that running larger injectors without SOME kind of fuel control means you will be overfueling most if not all of the time, right? Just checking.

You really shouldnt run larger injectors unless you have some software control through a hacked ecu, piggyback, standalone etc, or at the bare minimum an adjustable base pressure rising rate fuel pressure regulator that will at least get you in the ballpark.

Keep it up. Its a long road trying to find cheap deals and turboing a 20y/o family sedan. :)

[RoadWarrior222]

Well, you can hope the ECU trim does about +/- 10%, then if you're tending lean after several good 20 min+ drives to give it time to adjust, then can assume it's at the top +10% of the trim... so you can then go to +20% injectors, about 21lb, disconnect the battery to lose the trim, then do several 20+ min drives at varying outputs and throttle openings and you should end up with the trim compensating down to -10% with up to +30% over stock fuelling available... ~220HP ...

Buuuut... if you go for super wild mods... and want really big injectors, you might have to get an AFPR, turn them down to be able to start the motor, drive a little, tweak FP up a little, etc, until you've got a trim that can actually start your motor without flooding it and still give you some extra... but I'm not sure you'll get a whole lot more than +20% would anyway like that with stock calibration.

I say 20 mins of driving, meaning 20 mins from when engine is warm and in closed loop. The SMEC/SBEC won't fault sensors such as the SDS or O2 unless anomalies have been seen for this long, therefore one could presume that it won't adjust trim as much as possible until it's been driven this long.

[87turbodance]

My opinion is that you should install MS first and become familiar with it long before you turbo the motor or make significant engine mods. Installing the turbo setup is the easy part. The engine control is the most time consuming and difficult part and is required to get your turbo 3.0 to perform with acceptable reliability (my opinion). Once MS is installed and out of the way, you'll have a lot less to deal with when it comes time to turbo it.

[RoadWarrior222]

I guess that's probably the smart way round.

[Vigo]

I completely agree with 87turbodance.

[Wiscoballer]

What if I just socket my computer, and then use MPTune?

[87turbodance]

What if I just socket my computer, and then use MPTune?

I don't have a full understanding what can be changed in the 3.0 cal at the moment but my understanding that you can't change much beyond minor things like removing the rev limiter. There is no code in the 3.0 cal to handle more then atmospheric pressure (ie computer can't understand boost).

[Vigo]

AFAIK you CAN socket your 3.0 computer and modify the cal. Shelgame has done a cal for a 90 3.0 car before.

But, you will only be able to tune the areas that the computer has tables for. You will not be able to do proper fuel or spark tuning in boost. Can you make it work on low boost with no other hardware? Probably. If you give the proper amount of fuel and timing for X psi at WOT (0psi) in the n/a tune, it will have the right amount of fuel for X psi but it will be be out of tune for everything between 0vac and that boost number. If you're going to run like 5psi at first, it will probably work.

you CAN use a tuned stock ecu and a RRR to get a decent setup going since you will have ability to keep timing safe (if not ideal) with the ecu. But this is still nowhere near as precise, and ultimately not as safe, as having real control via a piggyback like an e-manage or FIC, or a standalone like megasquirt.

Personally, my ideal solution for a 3.0 car involves both a chipped ecu AND a piggyback because you cant raise the rev limiter with a piggyback and most people (myself included) want to raise the rev limiter on their 3.0s in addition to doing other things like turbo.

[austen]

As unrealistic as it may seem, I would almost say if you're trying to get up and running ASAP with everything try and find a 2.2/2.5 turbo 8 valve motor/car. It's gonna be a lot simpler for you to learn on and get your hands dirty. Mega squirt is pretty dang involved when it comes to tuning, especially for your first project turbo car (correct me if I'm wrong) one wrong change in your map and bam, yet alone making an N/A motor run and drive good with a turbo on it. (don't gang up on me 3.0t guys ;)) Now on the OTHER hand, if you're doing it for the pure love of the 3.0, keep going! It'll all come together someday. My advice to you is take your time and do everything right the first time, once you start rushing is when things start to break. Turbocharging a motor that isn't suppose to be turbocharged is definitely a process. :thumb:

[Wiscoballer]

I am trying to decide what to do. This is my DD and I can't have it down for too long. I am thinking about grabbing a S10 my neighbor has by the road in trade for mowing her yard like, 4 times. Its an I4 with a stick. That would give me something to drive this summer while I work on the car, but im not sure what it needs to be road legal. Might grab a 2.2/2.5 and rebuild it, and just deal without a car for a week (have my mom drop me off and pick me up) while I transplant it.

[austen]

That's a good idea. Like I said, 8 valves are perfect motors to get the hang of things and make some awesome power. Keep your eyes open on craigslist for Daytonas, probably gonna be the most common thing you'll see pop up with a 2.2/2.5.

[Wiscoballer]

I'm going to talk to Lotashelbys, he is local to me, and has a bunch of parts cars

[Vigo]

The thing about a 2.2/2.5 is it needs a turbo to get to where a 3.0 starts. My 3.0/5spd dynasty is as fast as a stock 5spd tII or 2.5T and it doesnt have much for power mods. An 8v is a SHITTY flowing motor that hides it's shittiness with a turbo. A 3.0 is a respectable flowing motor that's mostly held back by it's upper intake tract and factory ECU tuning. A turbo and breathing mods on a 3.0 is a monster compared to a mild turbo 8v.

Honestly, im COMPLETELY against swapping an 8v into a 3.0 car, and this is coming from a guy who's had like 6 8v cars and is still building more.

Im actually swapping the 2.5 turbo setup OUT of my caravan so i can put a boosted 3.0 in.

Sure, a 2.2/2.5 turbo is easier to increase the power with since it ALREADY has a turbo on it, but if your car didnt start as a 2.2/2.5 turbo, imo they arent worth the effort of swapping in vs turboing the 3.0.

[87turbodance]

I've gone down the 2.2/2.5 road and back again. Then I gave the 3.0 a chance and I would never go back to the 2.2/2.5

[Ondonti]

Regardless of your path, having a backup car is a necessity when you drive old cars and want to play with them. It will save you so many headaches not having to get things done so you can get to work.

[RoadWarrior222]

It's also a great feeling to get up in the morning and know you don't have to drive the worst POS..... you can drive the second worst POS instead. ;-)

[Ondonti]

<3 my pos #1

[Sundance 6g72]

from personal experience, id rather work on a megasquirted 3.0 than a 2.2T. Makes it easier to figure out WHY certain things are happening.

Vigo also made a good point. the swap is kind of pointless. the effort you put into it would be around the same as just turbocharging the 3.0 but you would come out with less by doing the swap (stock 2.2t vs. a 3.0 with turbo)

[austen]

I guess that was the stupidest idea I could've ever offered. STUPID!!! :lol: I probably should sell my non-3.0 spirit!

Alright, alright i'll stop being a sore D-bag. All you 3.0 guys made some pretty good points.

[Vigo]

Im not getting rid of my TII spirit.. :)

but i ALSO have 3.0 projects. :eyebrows:

[Wiscoballer]

well, project might have just hit the fan. Mom took the car into work yesterday (she works at a chrysler shop) the tech looked at it for a front end alignment, said it wouldnt hold. She said limp it for the next 3 months, and then its gone... ):

[Sundance 6g72]

id be curious for this "techs" reasoning on why a cars front end "wont hold"

[Ondonti]

Maybe he has no idea what he is doing? Would not surprise me. I once took my car in to a chrysler dealer for a coolant leak when I was in school and the idiots changed the water pump etc and I still had a leak. Fixed it on my own in a less obvious parking lot at my apartment and that sent me over the edge for ever trusting a mechanic again (and into the dark world of grease). All there really is to do is the tie rods (toe) and the eccentric bolt (camber). Those parts are 100% replaceable if they were damaged anyways. The eccentric bolt is the easiest thing in the world.

[Sundance 6g72]

even if you do not go forth with the project, fixing an alighment issue is easy if there even is an issue. dont send a perfectly good car away just because of that.

[RoadWarrior222]

I would imagine it has worn bushings, TREs and balljoints or something.... dealer parts + dealer labor rate - 2% staff discount = $3920 :D take an afternoon and do it yourself = $150.

[Vigo]

Most of my alignments are done with a tape measure in the driveway.

I agree, sounds like the tech is full of ---- (i am a working ASE master tech, btw).

Do you have irregular tire wear or a steering pull or any kind of symptom to make you think something needs to change with the alignment?

[RoadWarrior222]

Me too for the alignments...

Hey we need to get a van... if you've got a problem, if nobody else can help, maybe you can hire, the K-team... Kludging K-cars since 1980...

[Vigo]

If i could be part of a travelling k-car fixing task force for a living i might be interested... lol

[Ondonti]

Tech's gotta help the sales staff.

[Wiscoballer]

I work there too now, sheesh. Car goes straight when steering wheel is at about 45* to left. Guess the tierods are bad, bushing are bad, and the 23 years of salt didn't help either. Oh well, might just have to say goodbye to the car in a flash of glory....:eyebrows:

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

tech on the side+parts was about $500, told my mom after rebuilding the tranny, alternator, water pump, intake gasket, fuel pressure regulator, tires, brakes all around, and such, that if anything ran more than 250, it would see the junkyard.

[Sundance 6g72]

you where going to turbocharge a car that requires the wheel to be turned almost half way in order to go straight?

[Wiscoballer]

yeah...it doesn't shake or shimmy, it just has to be held at an angle to go straight, ive taken it to 102, its not like it isnt safe, just isnt fun...

[Vigo]

This can be fixed with a tape measure. It's just tedious to do it that way. Zero dollars, though.

[c2xejk]

That assumes no worn parts...

I have a some info on my site showing how to do a "pre-alignment"... If there are any worn parts, get them replaced, then do the pre-alignment...

If you purchase used parts and do an install yourself, you should be able to save a LOT.

Ed Kelly
www.kmperformance.com

[Ondonti]

Well who saw this going very far anyways ;)

[Wiscoballer]

Well who saw this going very far anyways ;)

Way to be a jerk throughout my thread. Please see your way out.

[Vigo]

Honestly, if the inner and outer tie rods are ok (certainly not a safe assumption) and the steering rack itself is actually tightly bolted down (which is also frequently not true), none of the other stuff has too much of an effect unless your control arm bushings like flat fell out. I think either all, or all but one of my cars has had original control arm bushings, but ive had to replace several tie rods.

[Wiscoballer]

tech told me that control arm bushings were bad, as well as tie rods, and the whole K frame was rotten.

[RoadWarrior222]

Nonsense, K frames don't go rotten on 3.0s they have a self oiling design :D

Heh, I'm kidding, but hard to know which definition of "rotten" a tech is using... like the "we need the business and I can see rust on it" rotten or the actually getting holes in it kind.

[Orangetona]

Way to be a jerk throughout my thread. Please see your way out.

Im not being a jerk here, but just posting some advice. All of the guys who posted in this thread ARE the people you want to talk to about doing something like this. Unfortunately this is a mostly 2.2/2.5 forum but I wouldnt mind trying to turbo a 3.0L. But the thing is, you cant just jump into something like that without any knowledge on the subject. As knowledgeable as they are, there is only so much you can do over the internet. The idea of running it on megasquirt before turboing it IS the right way. You cant expect everything to fall together by slapping injectors and an turbo on it. I would have loved to see this project grow into something. Unfortunate :(

[Ondonti]

I feel that debating over and over about megasquirt and turboing your vehicle then giving up because of basic car maintenance is jerking us around. So many times have I seen it. I didn't give Joe much hope until he proved he was really interested in working on cars more then fantasizing. Work is something my generation and those after seem to suck at. Most people who don't know whats going on but give it one heck of a swing seem to hit it out of the park eventually. Persistence pays off. Every time I read an old post of mine I think "gee, I was an idiot" compared to whatever I know now. Sure thought I was smart at the time though!

I daily drive the AA body that my parents bought in 1996 and that I took over in 2001 while in highschool. My car was limp home mode status in 2001 and would have been junked but I saved it. 11 years later I drive around with a baby seat and a Holset turbo.
Sounds like you just need to pay to play. If your project puts a financial burden on your family then its not a good thing. I haven't been racing in 2 years and I have a 19 month old. Coincidence? I had no job when he was born but I sure had bills.

[Orangetona]

I feel that debating over and over about megasquirt and turboing your vehicle then giving up because of basic car maintenance is jerking us around. So many times have I seen it. I didn't give Joe much hope until he proved he was really interested in working on cars more then fantasizing. Work is something my generation and those after seem to suck at. Most people who don't know whats going on but give it one heck of a swing seem to hit it out of the park eventually. Persistence pays off. Every time I read an old post of mine I think "gee, I was an idiot" compared to whatever I know now. Sure thought I was smart at the time though!

I daily drive the AA body that my parents bought in 1996 and that I took over in 2001 while in highschool. My car was limp home mode status in 2001 and would have been junked but I saved it. 11 years later I drive around with a baby seat and a Holset turbo.
Sounds like you just need to pay to play. If your project puts a financial burden on your family then its not a good thing. I haven't been racing in 2 years and I have a 19 month old. Coincidence? I had no job when he was born but I sure had bills.

I couldnt agree more with your post. Its funny because I do the same thing with my old posts. :D I still make dumb posts ;) cant help making an arse outta myself hahaha.

[Sundance 6g72]

yeah go read the first few pages of my original build thread on turbododge.. omg fail!

good thing im to stuck up to not do what i say.

[Vigo]

I feel that debating over and over about megasquirt and turboing your vehicle then giving up because of basic car maintenance is jerking us around.


Not to be harsh to the OP but i completely agree. Also, just to be honest, if your mom has ultimate say over whether you get a turbo, you're not getting a turbo. Gotta break out of that situation. Ive been telling people the last couple years that if i had to pick between having space, tools, and a shitty car, and having no space, no tools, and a nice/cool car, id always pick the shitty car. Ive seen it too many times to count.. people who claim to be car enthusiasts but dont live it because they choose to live in circumstances that prevent them from actually doing anything with a car but drive it to work. You gotta prioritize time, space, tools, etc above some of the other options in your life, or in the end you will never be able to accomplish anything with cars.

Sounds like the cheapest way to fix your suspension is to try and find a nice junkyard donor with a non-ruined k-frame, control arm bushings that are still there, and decent tie rods. You COULD actually drop the whole k-frame,control arms, and steering rack together by undoing a total of 6 bolts and then swap that into your car.

This is assuming your stuff is actually bad to begin with. I work as a tech and my perspective coming from inside the business is verify what they told you yourself because there's a very good chance they're lying to you. Happens all the time.

[Orangetona]

Not to be harsh to the OP but i completely agree. Also, just to be honest, if your mom has ultimate say over whether you get a turbo, you're not getting a turbo. Gotta break out of that situation. Ive been telling people the last couple years that if i had to pick between having space, tools, and a shitty car, and having no space, no tools, and a nice/cool car, id always pick the shitty car. Ive seen it too many times to count.. people who claim to be car enthusiasts but dont live it because they choose to live in circumstances that prevent them from actually doing anything with a car but drive it to work. You gotta prioritize time, space, tools, etc above some of the other options in your life, or in the end you will never be able to accomplish anything with cars.

Sounds like the cheapest way to fix your suspension is to try and find a nice junkyard donor with a non-ruined k-frame, control arm bushings that are still there, and decent tie rods. You COULD actually drop the whole k-frame,control arms, and steering rack together by undoing a total of 6 bolts and then swap that into your car.

This is assuming your stuff is actually bad to begin with. I work as a tech and my perspective coming from inside the business is verify what they told you yourself because there's a very good chance they're lying to you. Happens all the time.

I remember going through all that crap at 16 lol...I had to go behind someones back and actually pick up my first TM. Once I had it, the parental figures were ok with it surprisingly lol.

I have the crappy car/minimal room/but halfway decent tools part. But it was was better than the nice car/no room/no tools/nothing option. Id do it all over again. Theres something about that crappy car that your hard work made it into what it is thats so appealing that most dont understand.

[Wiscoballer]

Not to be harsh to the OP but i completely agree. Also, just to be honest, if your mom has ultimate say over whether you get a turbo, you're not getting a turbo. Gotta break out of that situation. Ive been telling people the last couple years that if i had to pick between having space, tools, and a shitty car, and having no space, no tools, and a nice/cool car, id always pick the shitty car. Ive seen it too many times to count.. people who claim to be car enthusiasts but dont live it because they choose to live in circumstances that prevent them from actually doing anything with a car but drive it to work. You gotta prioritize time, space, tools, etc above some of the other options in your life, or in the end you will never be able to accomplish anything with cars.



Sounds like the cheapest way to fix your suspension is to try and find a nice junkyard donor with a non-ruined k-frame, control arm bushings that are still there, and decent tie rods. You COULD actually drop the whole k-frame,control arms, and steering rack together by undoing a total of 6 bolts and then swap that into your car.

This is assuming your stuff is actually bad to begin with. I work as a tech and my perspective coming from inside the business is verify what they told you yourself because there's a very good chance they're lying to you. Happens all the time.

Well, unfortunately for me, I chose the "you sign for my loans so I can go to college, and I have to listen to you for the next 4 years since you are legally obligated to pay $80,000 in loans if I can't" route. My car is still my car, and I have the choice of whether to turbo it or not, but when they decide that it won't be stored at the house, and I am not home to move it, it goes to the junkyard. I also don't have friends with huge yards to store stuff, don't have my name on a lease, and don't want to pay to store something where I can't work on it. Rough life, but I know when I come out, get my loans paid off, get a house with the wife, and have a car payment, that I will still have enough on the side to fund my expensive hobbies of paintball and cars.

[Irocelectric93]

Since we all seem to be talking about this.....I understand where the OP is coming from but you also have to give guys like Brent and Joe credit. These are dudes that do what most guys don't so when another guy comes along with a thread like "I want to turbo my 3.0....whats it take to do that?" kind of thing can't help but get a little irritated, or rather just not take it super seriously. Honestly between TD and TM i can't count how many guys have come along saying "Yeah I'm gonna turbo my 3.0. It's gonna be awesome and BLabity blah blah blah". In fact when Joe first hopped on TD and started questioning it I rode him off unfairly. I've been saying "I'm gonna finish my car" to myself and others for a long time now to the point that even I kind of fit into that category I'm speaking of although bills get in the way for me...I tend to be frugal with my money. So i understand the whole "debt" obstacle. I mean after like 3 years all i have is a boat load of parts....a nice turbo...and a car running on MS3 with basically no tune and no turbo as of yet....not alot to be proud of really. Bah enough of that.

Have you inspected the K-frame yourself? unless you just aren't confident enough to make mechanical decisions...why aren't you looking into this stuff yourself?

[RoadWarrior222]

Guilty!

I'm always talking about modding my Voyager, but get my wrenching time and budget sucked up by maintaining it rather than upgrading it.... though I'm aiming for the prep condition you'd expect for a several hundred mile navigation rally with autocross and road-course special stages. i.e. pound on it and nothing breaks, and you're not scared of throwing it sideways at 60mph, because you know what, I have to throw my cars sideways at 60mph once or twice a year to escape 'tards on the highways.... and that's apart from winter being 3 months worth of ice rally... with oncoming traffic coming sideways at you.... (Okay it's really only a week or two total of it being that bad and we got off light last year) .. yah so the state that that car sounds in, exaggerated by the tech or not, it would be limited by me to city duty until it got front end work done.

[87turbodance]

Changing hard parts in the front end, or even changing the whole K-frame is easy enough to do but might take a whole saturday and sunday afternoon.

If the front unit-body it rotten - like the firewall, strut towers, k-frame mounting points rotten are then I'd give up.

If the all you need to do it swap some control arms bushings and replace the tie-rod ends then that's no reason to junk a car.

You can get a poly urethane control arm bushing set from Energy Suspension for about 60 dollars then you could replace all four tie-rods with premium for another hundred dollars.

If you can do your own maintenance then these cars are hard to beat on a dollar / mile ratio. If you can't do your own maintenance then old cars like these can quickly become giant money pits.

If I was in your spot, and I had a real interest in cars, now is a great time to get your hands dirty. The auto wrecker / pick n pull can be a good friend when money is tight.

[Wiscoballer]

well, just swayed my mom with spending my "spending money" aka what I earn mowing yards on the side to fix my car. Looks like entire new suspension plus tie rods from RockAuto it is! She is going to pay a tech to "watch" me, basically I get the use of a hoist, and a tech will help me when I need it, plus use of his tools to do it, which is good because I dont have a spring compressor. Looks like the turbo is not going in this year, but I get to keep my car!

[Vigo]

Maybe not the best possible news, but certainly good news!

The tech will probably tell you everything you need to know. Otherwise id be typing out a half page of tips about not smashing your tie rod threads and how to separate ball joints, etc.

One thing he might forget to mention that i WILL say is if you have an airbag you need to be careful not to spin the steering wheel while the steering rack is disconnected from the steering column. If you mention it he will know what you're talking about.

[Wiscoballer]

what are all the polybushings I need for my suspension? Might as well do that while I am at it and have the car all apart...

[Sundance 6g72]

swaybar bushings, control arm bushings. i think thats it.

[Vigo]

Yeah, i think there is a rubber part under the passenger side steering rack hold down on some, so you could check on that thing, but i dont know where you'd get one. Dealer i guess?

[Wiscoballer]

PROGRESS!!!!

I have been so busy the last few weeks, I haven't had time to work on the car. It's my dad's birthday today, and we went shooting, and afterward, he said, "If you have stuff to do, then do it!" Needless to say, I jumped right on the car. It is quite warm today, but I got some work done.
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3256.jpg
52MM Throttle Body!
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3257.jpg
Airbox delete, crankcase breather, 52MM throttle body, High flow air filter.

[Sundance 6g72]

have you checked out your suspension yet? would be a good idea to make sure the ball joints are decent.

jacking up each control arm (one at a time) and trying to force the wheel up down left and right is a good ways to make sure the ball joint still has some life in it.

i know its taken forever for me to get you a shipping price on the ported plenum but im going to have to hold onto it

[Wiscoballer]

thats fine, I plan on running to the pick a part this weekend and grabbing one to port myself. Little projects at a time. Looked at suspension, going to go with new shocks, struts, inner tie rods, control arm bushings, and sway bar bushings. Also found a guy in town with a FMIC for $40, gonna meet up with him and offer $30. Start hoarding parts for my turbo build (:

[Sundance 6g72]

what about your ball joints? those are more important than bushings if your current ones are sketchy

[Wiscoballer]

probably just order and replace them when I order from rock auto, they are only $6 apiece

[135sohc]

The crap junk balljoints are $6, made from recycled soup cans and will be trash in a year.

[Wiscoballer]

then i'll get the $10 ones. Anything has got to be better than the stock ones from the factory.

[Vigo]

To check these balljoints i think you want to be jacking up on the body and letting the suspension hang. If you jack on the control arm on a strut car you're compressing the balljoint with the coil spring which would hide the slop. You do jack on the control arm on cars/trucks with the spring between the control arm and the frame, though. The point is to get the balljoint unloaded when you check it.

[Wiscoballer]

I plan on doing that tomorrow, switching to my snowflakes for a few days while I paint the snipers. Got a bunch of my interior trim pieces painted black tonight, drying currently, and will be putting them in tomorrow. Wheel/tire cleaner does quite a good job cleaning trim pieces (:

[Sundance 6g72]

To check these balljoints i think you want to be jacking up on the body and letting the suspension hang. If you jack on the control arm on a strut car you're compressing the balljoint with the coil spring which would hide the slop. You do jack on the control arm on cars/trucks with the spring between the control arm and the frame, though. The point is to get the balljoint unloaded when you check it.

this is what i did, i was told to jack up the control arm in a thread i recently made in the suspension section. probably cant hurt to do both!

[Wiscoballer]

ran the car to work today. It started hard, took a little while to level out, and gas milage went down. Is that typical for a short ram intake and high flow filter? I had expected it to gain gas milage, not lose it.

[john1320]

Just looked at the filter you're using, and i know that one personally. It is TINY and total filter media area is less then the panel it replaced. I wouldn't put that filter on a 1.6l honda. I went with the mid-sized cone from Spectre. It has a larger total media area and will do nicely. (~$30) I went with the massive Spectre (P5) cone and shoe-horned it into the Shelby, but it would be overkill on my 3.0 until i get heads and front log swapped.

[Wiscoballer]

the one I bought is a spectre... I can see about swapping it for a larger one today, but I am unsure of that. Anyone else have an opinion? (not discrediting yours John, just asking for more opinions)

[Wiscoballer]

Well, went home for lunch, took the filter off, ran to the auto parts store (with no filter) and traded in mine for the medium sized filter, and put it on before going back to work. Seemed to fix the problem, and now the TB, Adapter, and Filter match!

[Wiscoballer]

well, with a 13.00+ class at the FWD Nationals at GLD (Union Grove, WI) on July 7/8, looks like I have a date set. Need to do a lot of work. With $200 winner, $100 runner up, can't imagine that it will be too expensive to enter. Next monday doing some work for my aunt, and hope to have enough to get my RockAuto order set for full suspension. Need to talk to the guys in the shop about finding some cheap 15" tires that I can have mounted for burnouts/racing.

[Wiscoballer]

just got my 15" snowflakes mounted on the car, gonna paint the snipers black tomorrow. Thinking black satin with satin clear coat, about 4 coats each (:

[Vigo]

Drag racing wont do much to your tires unless you are doing burnouts (which you shouldnt on street tires) or spinning 1st gear run after run after run (which you probably wont). I wouldnt hesitate to use your everyday tires at the track until you make more power or want to hit a certain et.

[Wiscoballer]

alright, good to hear. The 604 probably won't hold too many burnouts, so I should be good there, but I need the guys in the shop to keep an eye out for 14" tires, as I plan on just painting the rims with the tires on, and then swapping tires.

[Sundance 6g72]

ran the car to work today. It started hard, took a little while to level out, and gas milage went down. Is that typical for a short ram intake and high flow filter? I had expected it to gain gas milage, not lose it.

keep your foot off the gas? i wouldnt worry about filter size but bigger isnt worse, thats for sure.

the hotter air that the short ram is going to take in will increase mpg. colder air is more dense and more fuel is dumped. that will lower mpg MAYBE. the goal is less throttle input at the same rpm and still being able to hold your speed.

get a timing light and set your timing to 15* base timing. that will give you power and mpg.

[Wiscoballer]

I don't want to mess with the timing right now, as I plan on doing the turbo and Megasquirt/Megashift next year. I will deal with the timing for this year.

[c2xejk]

Adjusting the base timing is VERY easy. I would recommend you go ahead with this now...

[Sundance 6g72]

you just need a timing light and a 12mm wrench.

[RoadWarrior222]

and possibly a wire brush and a white or yellow paint pen.

[Sundance 6g72]

yeah first step is to locate the bracket that has the degrees marked on it. It needs to be cleaned up a bit. its located above the crank pully. idk how else to describe it

second step (someone correct me if im wrong) is to unplug your coolant temp sensor, this puts the car into base timing mode. now you connect the timing light to cyl1 ones spark plug wire and hold the trigger down. point the gun at the degree bracket and adjust the dizzy until the light flashes on 15*

bam you now have more horsepower, torque, and mpg.

[Wiscoballer]

I'll have to stop by the pawn shop this week then. I think they had a timing light for like $3

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

going to get a plenum from 6G72Acclaim (other forum) in a week or two, get that ported and on. I really really hope to make Midwest FWD Nationals with this car, if nothing other than to meet some local guys, and if everything falls into place, walk away the winner in the 13.00+ Class!

[c2xejk]

second step (someone correct me if im wrong) is to unplug your coolant temp sensor, this puts the car into base timing mode. now you connect the timing light to cyl1 ones spark plug wire and hold the trigger down. point the gun at the degree bracket and adjust the dizzy until the light flashes on 15*

If you paint in all the notches on the crank pulley, then you can hook up any spark plug wire....

[Wiscoballer]

does anyone know how to remove the center counsel on a spirit? I found the two screws under the coin holder for the armrest, but I am unsure as to the other screws holding it down. I think I saw some rivets up front? Working on painting all my trim black, what I have done so far looks great but I want to continue it throughout the entire cabin.

Thanks

[87turbodance]

Take the back piece with the arm rest off first. Then there will be two more screws under that as well as a few screws up front at the top behind the removable trim as well as a couple on the bottom. A number of other things wil have to come out first like the glove box and drivers side cover under the steering wheel.

[Wiscoballer]

Take the back piece with the arm rest off first. Then there will be two more screws under that as well as a few screws up front at the top behind the removable trim as well as a couple on the bottom. A number of other things wil have to come out first like the glove box and drivers side cover under the steering wheel.

Ok, sounds good. I think I remember that from when I ran all my subwoofer wiring.

[Wiscoballer]

full wash/wax tonight...I hate buffing a car by hand.

[RoadWarrior222]

wax on, wax off..

[Wiscoballer]

yeah, the wax on is easy, the wax off with a microfiber towel and two hands sucks.

[Sundance 6g72]

i washed my car for the first time in like 2 years the other day.

[Wiscoballer]

lol, I saw the dash in the video where you drove to your buddies shop, I was like, if he stacks things on the dash, his car must not be too clean

[RoadWarrior222]

Well you don't wanna rest your burger and fries on the floor and have the c0ckroaches get at it.

[Wiscoballer]

LOL!

I tend to keep my car pretty clean, especially considering I throw a weedeater in it multiple times a week for my side mowing business.

[Wiscoballer]

got the stripper, primer, paint, and clear for my wheels. After work, I plan on stripping and primer, and paint/clear tomorrow. Looks like 2 coats primer, 3 color, 3 clear?

[Wiscoballer]

Primer!
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3258.jpg

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3259.jpg

Gonna sand tomorrow, shoot color and clear.

[Wiscoballer]

I found a deal on two spray guns, gonna trade a musky rod, reel, and tackle I don't use (don't even have a fishing license) for them.

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/paintsprayers.jpg

[Wiscoballer]

just sprayed my last coat of color, I'd take a pic, but its still wet and glossy. I'll take a pic before I spray clear.

[Wiscoballer]

just realized I was supposed to take pics :mad:

My rims are fully painted, I'll take a pic of them tomorrow on the car. On a side note, I need four AR centercaps for my rims, I stupidly threw them away 2 years ago. ):

[Wiscoballer]

as promised, a picture of the rims mounted.

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3266.jpg

Most taken apart my interior has been, at least by me. Still gotta figure out how to get the dash out, gonna study the chilton's in a bit.

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3265.jpg

Painted interior!

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3264.jpg

[Vigo]

What all are you trying to paint? And what paint are you using?

[Wiscoballer]

read, then look, dont look then read (meaning caption is above picture.) I am using rustoleum's paint for plastics, painting all my interior plastic pieces (armrest plastic, center counsel, glove box, lower dash, around steering wheel, etc.) Going to shoot a couple coats of satin clear on it tomorrow, then install monday.

[Wiscoballer]

well, chilton and I had a meeting, gonna pull the dash tomorrow early in the morning, paint, clear, and install late tomorrow night. Here is the last picture of the night, a little project I took on. got the guage cluster apart, cleaned, and the surround is carbon fiber wrapped. Looks pretty clean to me (:

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3267.jpg

[Vigo]

For someone who doesnt know ---- about cars, you sure get mouthy toward car forum moderators.. lol. But point taken, in jest... :)

[Wiscoballer]

Lol, sorry, I thought it was a bit obvious. But you are true in that I dont know $hit about cars (:

[Wiscoballer]

Put the interior back in.

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3268.jpg

Black interior trim looks really good (:

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3269.jpg

Really liking my CF instrument cluster (:

[Vigo]

hard to tell what quality of finish you achieved but im liking it from what i can see. Some jeeps got a black version of that steering wheel. Also, some daytonas got a black perforated leather 4 spoke wheel which will go on your car. Has the cruise buttons and all that. I have one on a Dynasty. :p

[Wiscoballer]

good to know. I was eventually going to spring for an aftermarket steering wheel. I hope to make this a street/strip car, and won't want the airbag in my face theny

http://madison.craigslist.org/pts/3053606081.html

I really like this one, but it isn't the right color.

[Wiscoballer]

finish is 3 coats gloss paint with one coat satin clear.

I have been looking at picking these up for the car, then pick up some 5 points.

http://madison.craigslist.org/pts/2990313020.html

[Vigo]

So wait, you want to drive the car FASTER and have LESS airbag? :p

[Wiscoballer]

exactly what I am going for, but I won't do the steering wheel until I have at least 5 points in the car.

[Vigo]

Pretty sure you have to have a cage to have functional harnesses.. correct me if im wrong. You going for that?

[Sundance 6g72]

i always thought that too. to have a true "raceing" harness you need a cage because thats how the harness hooks up :P

i think its a waste of money until your going way to fast for your own good.

[RoadWarrior222]

But the General Lee had one...

[c2xejk]

Pretty sure you have to have a cage to have functional harnesses.. correct me if im wrong. You going for that?

That is what I was finding in my research....

[Wiscoballer]

who said it had to be functional? :p

[RoadWarrior222]

Yeah, I'd just clip a bungee to my belt and the other end to the child seat anchor... :eek:

[Wiscoballer]

might work well, but I was thinking of bolting the harness to the seat.

[Sundance 6g72]

and snapping your neck? the harnesses are set up the way they are for a reason. they hold you in tight and they have to be hooked up correctly or you can rape your self.

[Wiscoballer]

ordering my struts right now. Advance Auto is having a sale right now, spend $100, get free shipping+15% off+ a $50 coupon off your next purchase of $100 or more (:

Edit: After a long talk with a representative about how price matching is not a discount, I was not able to both price match, and get the discount. I plan on price matching RockAuto at Advance, and getting the free shipping/pick up at the store.

[Wiscoballer]

inner tie rods are getting replaced tomorrow. I have a company loaner, as I have training tomorrow and wednesday, which means I have a tech working on my car tomorrow. I noticed they were really bad last night, when the steering wheel would jiggle back and forth. Thought it was easier for the tech to do them, as he won't set off the airbag, and then I can just do the suspension when I get everything. I'll take a pic of the loaner in a bit, its still mopar! (:

[Vigo]

Im not trying to be rude here but talking about taking out your airbag and making your seatbelts nonfunctional sort of shows your age. I highly recommend you retain your airbag and functional seat belts. There are plenty of ways to make the car cooler without making it unsafe.

[Wiscoballer]

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s493/WISCOBALLER/DSCF3270.jpg

Company Loaner! (: They have good taste (:

[RoadWarrior222]

w00t, large wrecker parts run wagon!

[Wiscoballer]

with a hitch too, and AWD! Too bad its the 3.5L and not the R/T

[Vigo]

Is it the stealthy hitch? I tried to find one of those for my magnum 2 weeks ago and couldnt find one in the whole country. :(

[Wiscoballer]

nope, you can see the whole crossbar, and its 1 1/4"

[Vigo]

Well then i wont pay you to steal it :p

[Wiscoballer]

lol, its going wholesale tomorrow, so I probably could have gotten it for free ):

[Vigo]

Well damn!!! I would have taken it for that price! And still given you money. lol.

I got my magnum from an insurance company fleet. Paid $4600 for it with 77k. Then my fiancee wrecked it and the best deal of my life has been going downhill ever since.

[RoadWarrior222]

Man, you just had to do things backwards didn't you, buy it off the insurance company THEN wreck it??? :D

[Wiscoballer]

that sucks! Yeah, had it been the stealthy, I would have taken it and billed you, or just taken some 3.0L goodies (:

[Vigo]

I would have happily traded you several of my spare 3.0 intake manifolds for it. hehe

[Wiscoballer]

darn it! ):

[Wiscoballer]

got my timing done today, as well as inner tie rods done. Gotta start saving for the suspension, looks like right around $200 for full KYB suspension, and I need new tires now.

[Wiscoballer]

I found an Air/Fuel guage on craigslist for $30 (Narrowband), as well as a boost guage, an AFPR for $40, a Turbonetics 60 Trim .58A/R turbo for $100, and a turbonetics Intercooler for $60. Any a must buy? I'll prob grab the Air/Fuel and AFPR, but not sure on the others.

[Vigo]

Is it a 60 trim t4 compressor and a .58 a/r t4 housing? If so, i would say buy it.

AFPR depends on the design.

I definitely wouldnt spend $30 on a narrowband a/f gauge. Id put that money towards an old scantool like an otc2000 or 4000 that will read that plus every other thing the computer does. It'll be a lot more helpful in the long run. Narrowband gauge doesnt do anything but give you something to look at that doesnt tell you anything you need to know (while n/a).

[RoadWarrior222]

I want a narrowband, but mainly for mpg, so I can see if there's leanburn conditions (would be at part throttle) and how to take advantage of them.

[Sundance 6g72]

widebabd should be a requirement for any turbo car with mods.

[Wiscoballer]

Is it a 60 trim t4 compressor and a .58 a/r t4 housing? If so, i would say buy it.

Yes it is

AFPR depends on the design.

I definitely wouldnt spend $30 on a narrowband a/f gauge. Id put that money towards an old scantool like an otc2000 or 4000 that will read that plus every other thing the computer does. It'll be a lot more helpful in the long run. Narrowband gauge doesnt do anything but give you something to look at that doesnt tell you anything you need to know (while n/a).

I would be installing it while N/A for when I went turbo.


Well, I will see what the guy has this week.

[Irocelectric93]

I have a narrowband somewhere...if i could find it...you can have it Roadwarrior.

[Wiscoballer]

lol, thanks Iroc...:confused:

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

Found a pair of these on craigslist for $100, including sliders. Prob gonna pick these up once the guy gets back from vacation.

http://www.jegs.com/photos/034124105.jpg

[Vigo]

Sure you're installing the narrowband for n/a but it doesnt do you any good there either. It's just a voltmeter with lights instead of accuracy. Id rather buy a voltmeter.

The only thing you need to know about your o2 sensor is 'is it working' and you dont need a light show 100% of the time to tell you that 1 of your ~10 sensors is still working.

It's not even really a safety thing, you can lean out your n/a motor and go road racing and not blow it up. My DD pings like crazy on 87 octane gas and i floor it everywhere. It doesnt make enough heat/power to break itself. Most old-school n/a's dont.

That turbo would be a very good fit for you.. id make that top purchase priority if it's rebuildable.

[Wiscoballer]

Sure you're installing the narrowband for n/a but it doesnt do you any good there either. It's just a voltmeter with lights instead of accuracy. Id rather buy a voltmeter.

The only thing you need to know about your o2 sensor is 'is it working' and you dont need a light show 100% of the time to tell you that 1 of your ~10 sensors is still working.

It's not even really a safety thing, you can lean out your n/a motor and go road racing and not blow it up. My DD pings like crazy on 87 octane gas and i floor it everywhere. It doesnt make enough heat/power to break itself. Most old-school n/a's dont.

That turbo would be a very good fit for you.. id make that top purchase priority if it's rebuildable.


Is it a 60 trim t4 compressor and a .58 a/r t4 housing? If so, i would say buy it.

AFPR depends on the design.

I definitely wouldnt spend $30 on a narrowband a/f gauge. Id put that money towards an old scantool like an otc2000 or 4000 that will read that plus every other thing the computer does. It'll be a lot more helpful in the long run. Narrowband gauge doesnt do anything but give you something to look at that doesnt tell you anything you need to know (while n/a).

In both posts, you refer to it doing nothing while N/A. I state that I will put it in while N/A in preperation for the turbo, not strictly for N/A.

[turbovanman²]

In both posts, you refer to it doing nothing while N/A. I state that I will put it in while N/A in preperation for the turbo, not strictly for N/A.

RW said he wanted an NB gauge, that's who's he's referrring too and he's right, its for WOT only.

[Vigo]

The thing is, if you put a turbo on you should have a wideband and a proper gauge for it.. So the narrowband is near-useless for both n/a and turbo. If you want to spend any kind of money on any kind of a/f reading device, i'd say either put that money towards and old scanner or a wideband (which is useful n/a too). Since this is my third regurgitation of .02 i'll stop here.. im just trying to be clear it's not because you're not turbo yet, it's just that it's a near-useless piece of equipment.

[Wiscoballer]

getting my intake manifold upper tomorrow, and thursday should be an off day for me. Need to come in for a tutorial on the new CRM software, and two yards to mow, but I should still find time to start on the intake manifold, and finish my plenum spacers. I just need them trimmed to the same width, and they should go on at the same time as the plenum.

[Wiscoballer]

I pulled the plastic cover between the windshield and hood tonight, and used some restore black on it, as well as tire shine. I also pulled the rear seat (found $0.25!!!) and plan on vacuuming it out tomorrow, and putting it back together. Having a heck of a time figuring out how to remove the rear seat supports (right and left of the folding seats) so I can remove all the plastic trim for paint on thursday.

[Wiscoballer]

got my intake plenum today, they threw in the throttle body for free!?!? Anyways, plan on getting the car cleaned out tonight, maybe even pull the carpet and shoot it tomorrow in the detail bay to try to get it clean. Two yards to mow, and need to get the intake plenum started. How much is powdercoating on a piece like that? Want to get it powdercoated red, but might just hit it with some high heat enamel.

[RoadWarrior222]

IMO the power coat would go tacky when the plenum gets real hot, which is when you sit idling in traffic for 10 mins on a 90F day... then any road grit sitting on it would probably sink into the surface.

Check out the diameter of the TB, might be bigger than the one you got, might be smaller, also, be aware that the TPS, AIS, etc on it could have different connectors, also could have a different vacuum arrangement... which could include the plenum too... some have a charge temp sensor in the end, some don't.

[Wiscoballer]

I have a 52 right now, looks like my 48mm. Figured I should prob just go to the high temp engine enamel. Might hit the yard tomorrow and grab a set of full heads, start trying to clean them up.

Two issues I have been having. I get white smoke at startup, but goes away after 3 seconds (quick puff)

I get a screeching noise at about 1600 rpm. If I hold it there, it continues, and if I give more or less gas, it goes away, but it has a small range where it starts as a low screech(pitch) and gets higher, from about 1550-1650, then goes away.

[MC#4]

Powdercoat would probably hold up fine, I've seen plenty of the TT 3/S guys powder coat the upper plenum and it stays nice. Their underhood temps are waaaay higher than yours will ever be. I went with silver header paint on mine and it is doing well so far, ~6 months.

[Vigo]

Considering powdercoat gets put on with a 400* oven, i think it will be fine on a ~150* intake manifold.

[Wiscoballer]

I was wondering how much it would cost lol. Prob just gonna hit it with some high heat enamel. I got the bottom half of the manifold done, gotta work on the top. I had to be at work for 5 hours today on my off day, only got one yard mowed. Once the engine cools down tonight, I am gonna put my plenum spacers on.

[Wiscoballer]

plenum spacers are on, will test them tomorrow morning. Hopefully they will not melt (:

[Vigo]

Sounds good! Any news on that turbo? It's just about perfect for your goals and as you can tell from all the back and forth we had earlier in the thread.. that's not a common thing hehe.

[Wiscoballer]

gotta mow my yards this week, then I will have enough for it. I keep putting my suspension off ): but the right turbo would be nice to have for next year.

[Wiscoballer]

good news, my plenum spacers didnt melt! (:

[Wiscoballer]

got more of the plenums ported, but ran out of grinding wheel. Gotta pick some more up tomorrow, and monday I work at 1:30, so I have time to work on it before work.

[Wiscoballer]

got my exhaust manifold flanges designed tonight, dad is going to try to get them plasma cut tomorrow, or this week.

[Sundance 6g72]

nice. make sure they are perfect flat when its said and done. thats the only reason i dont bother with haveing some made and selling them. cutting them is the easy part (for me at least)

[Wiscoballer]

upper plenum is nearly done, just two little areas to finish. just purchased an A pillar molding for the drivers side, so I have something to work on adding an A pillar guage pod to, making it look as factory as possible.

[Wiscoballer]

got my bigger injectors paid for, should ship tomorrow.

[Wiscoballer]

the 3kgt fuel rails work for us right? They are much easier to mount an AFPR on...

[Wiscoballer]

intake is done, injectors on the way, and trying to find a fuel rail. Should be all put together next wednesday.

[Wiscoballer]

got a lead on a fuel rail, injectors look good, and plenum is painted with caliper paint (all I could find high temp gloss red) gotta clean up my injectors and let the plenum cure. Might do the calipers tomorrow with the leftover paint.