Sundance 6g72
03-04-2012, 01:37 AM
Want to mod your 3.0 for more power but dont know where to start? This thread can be used as a guideline.
Bolt ons / supporting mods.
- 52 and 58mm throttle body.
The 52 is most common and can be found on almost all 3.3 dodge motors along with older 3.0 motors. Usually you need to swap your stock tps onto the new throttle body. It would be wise to use the ais motor that is already on the 52mm throttle body. if it needs replacement, you can try your stock ais motor but it might not function correctly due to being a different throttle body.
Giving the throttle body a slight port and polish job before install is easy and can only help (if done right)
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405561_10150568415323899_534573898_10652681_175078 7039_n.jpg
- Port your Upper intake plenum.
Simply unbolt the plenum, take off both halves and take a mill, grinder, dremel or whatever you want to all the crap in there. your end all goal should look similar to this
http://kmperformance.com/techcenter/plenumporting/pictures/plenum_243.jpg
Ed Kelly has a write up on how to do it. Check out KMPerformance.com
Ed will port your throttle body, upper and lower intake and even your heads for an affordable price if you are not comfortable doing so.
- 1/2" - 1" intake spacers.
These go between the upper and lower intakes. 1inch spacers are proven to give a good bit of power. Half inch is all that will fit in a P body. Even then you will have some clearance issues with the hood but this can be fixed with a little common sense and willingness to remove some of the support from the hood. no big deal
My spacers are made out of steel. not the best choice but it works. You can make them out of anything you want really.. i know of 2 guys using strong wood but most use something like delrin.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/398028_10150568414738899_534573898_10652670_204709 1039_n.jpg
- Cold Air Intake
Removing the stock intake box and hosing helps a good amount. A cone filter right on the throttle body is a better idea than running the stock setup. The best way would be to get creative and run your filter to a cold location.
- Flip the intake plenum
This move the filter to the other side of the engine bay. Less clutter and provides a better spot to get cold air (essentially with an AC delete and charcoal canister removed. *Removing Emissions might get you in trouble if your car gets tested, do at own risk*)
you will need a throttle cable from a 3.3 Mini Van to do the flip. You will also have to extend the wiring for the tps and idle motor.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/403747_10150568414503899_534573898_10652666_146325 1420_n.jpg
- 3inch Exhaust.
Exhaust is cheep for our cars. $160 will get you cat back pipes from FWD performance. i replaced my stock cat with a magnaflow straight muffler and it sounds pretty nice. im considering a second straight muffler at the bumper to finish it off. If you can run 3inch pipe from the exhaust manifold all the way back, youl be in business.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390008_10150568413903899_534573898_10652653_163663 5365_n.jpg
- Set ignition base timing to 15* (do not do this if your going to turbo charge the motor)
This increases horsepower and torque and at the same time will give you a little more mpg.
- Port the lower intake.
Porting the lower can only help.
- Diamante Cams
These cams have a little more duration to them. The difference is not much so unless your getting a good deal on them, dont bother. Its just a fun mod to do that is also proven horsepower. If would be great if your not allowed to have an aftermarket/ regrind cam (class restrictions)
All of that is proven horsepower! With those mods, I did two back to back dyno pulls and made 147/168 to the wheels. Power was left on the table because i had stock ignition timing, half inch spacers and my plenum porting could have been better along with using stock cams. (no ported lower intake)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point you will want to consider investing in a wideband o2 sensor. When i did my dyno pulls, i was at 13.2:1 air fuel ratio. From my understanding, the ecu does not adjust WOT fueling and runs strictly from a fixed table. Adding even more air will just lean the motor out and eventually hurt power. There might be more power at 13.4:1 air fuel ratio but i can say for certain that once it hits 14:1 you can feel the power loss. You should be able to add fuel with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
Head Work
- Head Porting
You should have the heads sent to Ed Kelly if this is something you want to do. You cant just port the heads and expect better performance. Ed has years of experience with 12 valve 3.0 heads and his own flowbench to make sure things are improving. He offers very fair prices on his site.
- Custom regrind cams
Here is a cam card that can be looked up on the Crower site.
E-27829. That cam is proven to put a daytona on spray into the 12s. Its street drivable too.
A custom regind can be done, just ask on this forum what would be best for your motor and goals.
- Valve train
We have a few options for our valve train. For the springs, you can go with 3.3L dodge engine valve springs or Schneider 6610 valve springs.
The 6610 springs are a direct drop in spring. The 3.3 springs are beehive springs and require ls1 valve locks and retainers. Comp cam 623 retainers are what im going to run along with oem beehive retainers. Make sure to ask around before going forward with ls1 valvetrain
the goal with the ls retainers is that the oe steel ones are still lighter than our stock retainers. You can also order lightweight titanium retainers if you want that would be even lighter. The more weight you shave off, the easier it is for the valve spring to do its job and let you rev higher.
3.3 springs with ls locks and retainers are 7500rpm proven. I witnessed it my self in Ed's car.
*keep in mind that the retainers have to be trimmed a little due to it not being flush with the top of the valve. ill post a how to on this once i get to it with my motor.*
- OEM 10:1 pistons.
the Diamante came with 10:1 pistons. Ask before ordering these to ensure you picked the right piston. I have seen them go for $150 for a set of 6. You might be able to get away with 87 octane but it would be wise to bump it up to 89 octane.
- Less reciprocating mass
Lightweight flywheels can be had from some of our venders. Im sure FWD sells them still.
if your lucky, you might find a lightweight crank pulley floating around somewhere. Also, after market clutch kits tend to be lighter than stock. Im pretty sure my 6puck stage two clutch from Turbos Unleashed is lighter than my stock clutch. Less spinning mass means more power will make it to the wheels and your motor will rev faster.
The clutch is also a good idea when going this deep into a motor build.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/404578_10150568414068899_2093565718_n.jpg
- Custom headers.
I really would not try this without a wideband. Ed saw a significant bump up in the VE valvues of his megasquirt after replacing only the front manifold with a custom header.
- Stand Alone Engine Management
A few reason to go with a stand alone are
full control over engine fueling
full control over ignition timing
rev limiter control
overboost control for boosted cars
ability to read sensors via laptop. no more guessing games and counting flashing lights.
Basically, if you are willing to go as far as an upgraded clutch and built heads, it would be a good idea to get an engine management. Chances are that the stock tune is out of fuel and needs something to control it. Something else to think about is revability. if you pay a pretty penny for cams that want to make power at 7500rpms, then youl need something to let you rev that high along with feeding it proper ammounts of fuel.
I my self us megasquirt II. Its easy to install and is pretty cheep compared to other systems. Vieweing the senors output in an easy to read layout makes troubleshooting an easy task.. unlike reading various voltage readings by tapping into wires
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/407215_10150568415588899_534573898_10652687_198102 7465_n.jpg
All in all; ported heads, big cams, and headers might allow your 3.0 to move to much air for the stock ecu to handle. Making an aftermarket ecu or piggy back ecu a nessessity to makeing real power. I know of at least 2 3.0s that currently run slower than they used to after swapping to ported heads. One of them comfirmed that he was running way to lean. the other has yet to check his air fuel ratio. My bet is that he is in the 14s when wide open.
Turbocharging/ Super Charging
If your still reading, your ready to turbo your 3.0 and make it a beast. This is a different thread in its own.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?64310-How-to-turbo-3.0-(how-i-did-it) (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?64310-How-to-turbo-3.0-%28how-i-did-it%29)
Thanks for reading. If I missed something, spelt something wrong or you just want me to add somethign.. feel free to tell me!
~ Joe
Bolt ons / supporting mods.
- 52 and 58mm throttle body.
The 52 is most common and can be found on almost all 3.3 dodge motors along with older 3.0 motors. Usually you need to swap your stock tps onto the new throttle body. It would be wise to use the ais motor that is already on the 52mm throttle body. if it needs replacement, you can try your stock ais motor but it might not function correctly due to being a different throttle body.
Giving the throttle body a slight port and polish job before install is easy and can only help (if done right)
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405561_10150568415323899_534573898_10652681_175078 7039_n.jpg
- Port your Upper intake plenum.
Simply unbolt the plenum, take off both halves and take a mill, grinder, dremel or whatever you want to all the crap in there. your end all goal should look similar to this
http://kmperformance.com/techcenter/plenumporting/pictures/plenum_243.jpg
Ed Kelly has a write up on how to do it. Check out KMPerformance.com
Ed will port your throttle body, upper and lower intake and even your heads for an affordable price if you are not comfortable doing so.
- 1/2" - 1" intake spacers.
These go between the upper and lower intakes. 1inch spacers are proven to give a good bit of power. Half inch is all that will fit in a P body. Even then you will have some clearance issues with the hood but this can be fixed with a little common sense and willingness to remove some of the support from the hood. no big deal
My spacers are made out of steel. not the best choice but it works. You can make them out of anything you want really.. i know of 2 guys using strong wood but most use something like delrin.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/398028_10150568414738899_534573898_10652670_204709 1039_n.jpg
- Cold Air Intake
Removing the stock intake box and hosing helps a good amount. A cone filter right on the throttle body is a better idea than running the stock setup. The best way would be to get creative and run your filter to a cold location.
- Flip the intake plenum
This move the filter to the other side of the engine bay. Less clutter and provides a better spot to get cold air (essentially with an AC delete and charcoal canister removed. *Removing Emissions might get you in trouble if your car gets tested, do at own risk*)
you will need a throttle cable from a 3.3 Mini Van to do the flip. You will also have to extend the wiring for the tps and idle motor.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/403747_10150568414503899_534573898_10652666_146325 1420_n.jpg
- 3inch Exhaust.
Exhaust is cheep for our cars. $160 will get you cat back pipes from FWD performance. i replaced my stock cat with a magnaflow straight muffler and it sounds pretty nice. im considering a second straight muffler at the bumper to finish it off. If you can run 3inch pipe from the exhaust manifold all the way back, youl be in business.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390008_10150568413903899_534573898_10652653_163663 5365_n.jpg
- Set ignition base timing to 15* (do not do this if your going to turbo charge the motor)
This increases horsepower and torque and at the same time will give you a little more mpg.
- Port the lower intake.
Porting the lower can only help.
- Diamante Cams
These cams have a little more duration to them. The difference is not much so unless your getting a good deal on them, dont bother. Its just a fun mod to do that is also proven horsepower. If would be great if your not allowed to have an aftermarket/ regrind cam (class restrictions)
All of that is proven horsepower! With those mods, I did two back to back dyno pulls and made 147/168 to the wheels. Power was left on the table because i had stock ignition timing, half inch spacers and my plenum porting could have been better along with using stock cams. (no ported lower intake)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point you will want to consider investing in a wideband o2 sensor. When i did my dyno pulls, i was at 13.2:1 air fuel ratio. From my understanding, the ecu does not adjust WOT fueling and runs strictly from a fixed table. Adding even more air will just lean the motor out and eventually hurt power. There might be more power at 13.4:1 air fuel ratio but i can say for certain that once it hits 14:1 you can feel the power loss. You should be able to add fuel with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
Head Work
- Head Porting
You should have the heads sent to Ed Kelly if this is something you want to do. You cant just port the heads and expect better performance. Ed has years of experience with 12 valve 3.0 heads and his own flowbench to make sure things are improving. He offers very fair prices on his site.
- Custom regrind cams
Here is a cam card that can be looked up on the Crower site.
E-27829. That cam is proven to put a daytona on spray into the 12s. Its street drivable too.
A custom regind can be done, just ask on this forum what would be best for your motor and goals.
- Valve train
We have a few options for our valve train. For the springs, you can go with 3.3L dodge engine valve springs or Schneider 6610 valve springs.
The 6610 springs are a direct drop in spring. The 3.3 springs are beehive springs and require ls1 valve locks and retainers. Comp cam 623 retainers are what im going to run along with oem beehive retainers. Make sure to ask around before going forward with ls1 valvetrain
the goal with the ls retainers is that the oe steel ones are still lighter than our stock retainers. You can also order lightweight titanium retainers if you want that would be even lighter. The more weight you shave off, the easier it is for the valve spring to do its job and let you rev higher.
3.3 springs with ls locks and retainers are 7500rpm proven. I witnessed it my self in Ed's car.
*keep in mind that the retainers have to be trimmed a little due to it not being flush with the top of the valve. ill post a how to on this once i get to it with my motor.*
- OEM 10:1 pistons.
the Diamante came with 10:1 pistons. Ask before ordering these to ensure you picked the right piston. I have seen them go for $150 for a set of 6. You might be able to get away with 87 octane but it would be wise to bump it up to 89 octane.
- Less reciprocating mass
Lightweight flywheels can be had from some of our venders. Im sure FWD sells them still.
if your lucky, you might find a lightweight crank pulley floating around somewhere. Also, after market clutch kits tend to be lighter than stock. Im pretty sure my 6puck stage two clutch from Turbos Unleashed is lighter than my stock clutch. Less spinning mass means more power will make it to the wheels and your motor will rev faster.
The clutch is also a good idea when going this deep into a motor build.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/404578_10150568414068899_2093565718_n.jpg
- Custom headers.
I really would not try this without a wideband. Ed saw a significant bump up in the VE valvues of his megasquirt after replacing only the front manifold with a custom header.
- Stand Alone Engine Management
A few reason to go with a stand alone are
full control over engine fueling
full control over ignition timing
rev limiter control
overboost control for boosted cars
ability to read sensors via laptop. no more guessing games and counting flashing lights.
Basically, if you are willing to go as far as an upgraded clutch and built heads, it would be a good idea to get an engine management. Chances are that the stock tune is out of fuel and needs something to control it. Something else to think about is revability. if you pay a pretty penny for cams that want to make power at 7500rpms, then youl need something to let you rev that high along with feeding it proper ammounts of fuel.
I my self us megasquirt II. Its easy to install and is pretty cheep compared to other systems. Vieweing the senors output in an easy to read layout makes troubleshooting an easy task.. unlike reading various voltage readings by tapping into wires
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/407215_10150568415588899_534573898_10652687_198102 7465_n.jpg
All in all; ported heads, big cams, and headers might allow your 3.0 to move to much air for the stock ecu to handle. Making an aftermarket ecu or piggy back ecu a nessessity to makeing real power. I know of at least 2 3.0s that currently run slower than they used to after swapping to ported heads. One of them comfirmed that he was running way to lean. the other has yet to check his air fuel ratio. My bet is that he is in the 14s when wide open.
Turbocharging/ Super Charging
If your still reading, your ready to turbo your 3.0 and make it a beast. This is a different thread in its own.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?64310-How-to-turbo-3.0-(how-i-did-it) (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?64310-How-to-turbo-3.0-%28how-i-did-it%29)
Thanks for reading. If I missed something, spelt something wrong or you just want me to add somethign.. feel free to tell me!
~ Joe