turning a 2.4L sideways

[strang3majik]

Ok...I have a unique project here...

Ok, I have a 1972 Datsun 510 with a 90hp motor in it...it'll work for now, but, not cutting it.

What I'm wondering is...whats involved in running a 2.4L in a RWD configuration? Like mounts, trans, etc?


Basically...all the Nissan guys are putting big bucks and big turbo kits on their KAs, etc, and getting 250hp out of it. Well...a stock SRT4 setup is making that.

Would an AX-15 from the older 2.5 Dakotas bolt up? There's a guy on another forum running one of those behind a v8 built up with jeep parts and its holding up...so...would that work?

And...how would one mount it sideways? What about the intake and exhaust mani?

Thanks guys. I know it'd probably be a lot of fabrication, but, it'd be cool, and be funny to blow everyones minds when they saw a Dodge motor in there...haha. I just like the bodys of the cars, though...the engine selection...eww.


It is hilarious watching these guys put mega bucks into their 16 valves and their "JDM" engine swaps, not making huge power though. Hell...half the 8 valve guys here are making as much if not more with minor bolt ons...hahahha

[tryingbe]

Google found this. You might want to ask them.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/90939-a853a855-srt-4-240z-project/
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=379667&start=0

[turbovanman²]

Find a RWD block, fab/modify manifolds, bolt up the AX15, have some fun.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?63999-2.4-vs-2.4

[strang3majik]

Ah...great links! thank you!

[moparman76_69]

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f68/350208-my-rwd-turbo-dodge-1977-toyota.html

[Force Fed Mopar]

I want to do the same thing to my Conquest :D

Edit: another good link

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

Hmm, I have a Suzuki Samurai waiting for a cool engine swap too... :evil:

[brett_498]

I want to do the same thing to my Conquest :D

Edit: another good link

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

Hmm, I have a Suzuki Samurai waiting for a cool engine swap too... :evil:

I went to Tech School with a kid that was in the process of putting a stroked SRT4 engine in his Conquest. Lost contact with him over the years.. Wonder if he ever finished it..

[BadAssPerformance]

Why not an RB25 swap?

[strang3majik]

inline 6 will not fit without cutting the firewall...but...a lot of great info in a short amount of time...you guys are awesome!

[Force Fed Mopar]

Why not an RB25 swap?

Because RB25's suck...

[turbovanman²]

Because RB25's suck...

Expensive too and getting harder to find.

[strang3majik]

Very very true.

But...these JDM SR20DETs are being dropped in making 300hp and these guys are spending upwards of $5k.

For probably $3k if I don't shop around, I could probably build a 300hp SRT4 motor...lol

[moparman76_69]

Yeah but even a N/A us sr20 would be pretty peppy in a lighter car.

[BadAssPerformance]

Very very true.

But...these JDM SR20DETs are being dropped in making 300hp and these guys are spending upwards of $5k.

For probably $3k if I don't shop around, I could probably build a 300hp SRT4 motor...lol

I have a friend who might still have an SR20DET for sale if it didnt end up in a Nissan 240 hatch... he also has a '72ish 240Z that the RB25 is supposed to be going into. He had it in a Nissan 240 coupe and it was a fun ride.

[strang3majik]

But a turbo 2.4 :)

The whole time I owned my SRT, I dreamed of how fun it would've been in a RWD platform...the torque curve it just perfect...basically, it'd be a ball........especially in a car that weighs a hair over 1900lbs wet :D


and here's the car for those who care...lol

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt282/strang3majik/DSC09177.jpg

[Force Fed Mopar]

I like those old 510's, they have a cool look to them.

[roachjuice]

Those Nissan guys are pretty anal about having Nissan only engines in their cars. Hell go for an 8v :D it's simple. Just like the car. Or ls1 it. That never fails.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1, Nissan/Satsun ppl are typically pretty loyal to their engines... Here's th eones I mentioned and have hauled before. Suggested the 2.4L Dodge motor for the 240Z and gat a sad face back, LOL

EDIT: The Nissan never ran with the VGT... only with the tiny JDM turbo, but still fast

[strang3majik]

Fastest that car ever went was behind that Dakota :p

But, I know what you're saying about the Nissan guys...but, I'm not a Nissan guy...lol

Bet I'd be the talk of the 510 meet :)

And...honestly, a 2.5L turbo in the Dakota configuration would probably be pretty stout...hahaha.



But, in all seriousness...the transmission out of a 2.5L dakota, would that bolt up to a 2.4L? And what transmission is that? Please tell me AX-15...and that it would bolt up...lol

[Force Fed Mopar]

Fastest that car ever went was behind that Dakota :p

But, I know what you're saying about the Nissan guys...but, I'm not a Nissan guy...lol

Bet I'd be the talk of the 510 meet :)

And...honestly, a 2.5L turbo in the Dakota configuration would probably be pretty stout...hahaha.



But, in all seriousness...the transmission out of a 2.5L dakota, would that bolt up to a 2.4L? And what transmission is that? Please tell me AX-15...and that it would bolt up...lol

Read that link I posted :) The 94-95 Dakota bell would bolt up, with the same issue as we have in the cars, that 1 bellhousing bolt that is offset.

But, if you read that link, there is a 2.4 5-spd rwd bell that will bolt up properly. And yes, it is an AX15 trans.

[moparman76_69]

The liberty/wrangler bellhousing will work on the R154 but the input shaft lengths are different.

[strang3majik]

R154s are exspensive though...lol

Theres a guy on another forum I'm on that has an AX15 bolted to a 360 v8 and holding together...he has one stock trans in a Dakota that never gets traction (probably why its still together) and a built one going in a conquest. He said parts are cheap, just buy them for a jeep trans...if you can rock crawl with one, a 1900lb car isn't going to break it...lol

And I've seen that link before...kinda so much info its overwhelming...lol I do remember reading that the Liberty bellhousing was a little long or something and you had to use the liberty flywheel with it??? And depending on what trans you use you had to have the bellhousing milled down?

Idk...but...hmmmmmm

What would that one bolt missing do on the bellhousing? Any way to make that work? Or would that reduce the structural integrity too much?

[omni_840]

Love 510's! That's one of my 3 cars that I'm always looking for on CL along with Volvo 142's and VW Type III SB's. Definatley make a thread when you dive into this projects:nod:

[kleiner]

Ya I love the 510's as well. Later in life I want ot get into one of these.
Good luck

[BadAssPerformance]

Fastest that car ever went was behind that Dakota :p

LOL. you've seen me drive? ;) The Datsun? Yes, so far, LOL.. the Nissan? well, although its had a few rides behind the Dak, it has gone much faster on its own

[nowhereman]

so are you gonna do it? if thats your kick go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!

[strang3majik]

Actually...its a potential project for down the road for another 510, or in the Conquest I have now. Many things were discovered about that car that made me get rid of it.

First off, the grille mounting holes were off by several inches and nothing really lined up right after I put it together, and the drivers door always needed slammed with no door sag. But, car was apart when I bought it, so, didn't think anything of it :/ I think it was in an accident. I'll get another someday, though...it was a cool car.

Here's a pic...also, the l20b motor that came with it that was "a good running engine" turned out to be a POS that needed a rebuild. :/

Anyway...

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt282/strang3majik/DSC09286.jpg

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt282/strang3majik/DSC09311.jpg

[nowhereman]

thats to bad.... would have been a cool build

[strang3majik]

very true...someday I'll own another. Very cool little car, I should've did a little more shopping though :/

[strang3majik]

Figured I'd bump this......because a srt4 motor is going in my e30.




That is all :) Going to start collecting parts here in the near future.

[black86glhs]

I missed this thread.....trying to figure out how....but anyway, that would have been a fun ride. Hell, the 2.4 from a Jeep wrangler would have made it an easy build too.

Which model 3 series do you have?

[strang3majik]

I missed this thread.....trying to figure out how....but anyway, that would have been a fun ride. Hell, the 2.4 from a Jeep wrangler would have made it an easy build too.

Which model 3 series do you have?

325e. Slow hunk of heavy aircraft engine redlining at 4500rpm crap...lol It'll yank a house down, but it isn't getting anywhere quickly. Plus its got in excess of 250k miles.

Body is perfect and all the suspension components and brakes are brand new, just needs paint and a powerful engine. :)


And BMW is far too expensive to modify, so, I'll go Mopar and be ahead in power anyway, with less weight...haha. I plan to collect all the parts while I continue to drive it, that way I'll have minimal down time, just actual making of the bracketry and running the electronics (probably megasquirt) left when I finally do it...and gathering the parts I didn't think about.......which always happens :/


I'm going to try and get my GLH running first though...doesn't need much, need to buy my remaining parts and install everything and that'll be done...then this project :)

[black86glhs]

So you have the 2.7 engine. I agree that the 2.4 is the better way to go....and much cheaper. I like it.:thumb:

[strang3majik]

So you have the 2.7 engine. I agree that the 2.4 is the better way to go....and much cheaper. I like it.:thumb:

Yup yup. I got completely whooped by an 80s ragged out V6 camaro yesterday. Now granted it wasn't a real race, he just passed me on the highway and I went full throttle and couldn't catch up to him :/ I honestly think the 2.2 automatic Horizon I owned for about a week had more grunt. Something might just be wrong with this one, but its slow, and I don't care to fix it...hahaha.

So 2.4!



Anyone know where I could find a 2.4L liberty bellhousing? They seem impossible to locate and I've yet to ever see a 2.4 Liberty.

[moparman76_69]

What about a 2.5 dakota bellhousing? The only issue would be the one bolt just like a 2.4/555 combo has.

[Aries_Turbo]

id go 2.5 bell and the r154. its not that expensive. i got one for 160$ a few years back.

sold all my conversion stuff to METZ. had everything but a clutch but thats easy.

hit him up and see if he used it.

Brian

[strang3majik]

The Dakota 2.5 bell will work fine just the one bolt? Starter engagement and all would work correctly? What would I use for flywheel, clutch/pp, etc?

I like that idea though, sounds cheap and easy to get...haha.


And you're saying Metz had the trans and bellhousing?

[Aries_Turbo]

metz had the trans, bellhousing, slave cyl, clutch fork, crankshaft pilot bearing adapter, driveshaft yoke, ujoint and a small section of driveshaft.

you still need to mod the bellhousing to catch that offset bolt as it wont be strong enough without it.

yes starter works but i think you may need to use the denso starter to clear the 2.4L bits.

pressure plate and flywheel is stock TD stuff. clutch disc needs to be a toyota tacoma 4 banger disc.

larryb knows all those details of the clutch stuff. i forget the year of the truck clutch disc but clutchnet carries it.

brian

[moparman76_69]

I've got the bellhousing, fork, and bearing housing if you can't find it. I'll probably never use it. I also have a '02 caravan 2.4 intake. It will bolt on and have the TB facing to the front instead of the rear like other 2.4 intakes.

[strang3majik]

I will message Metz, and if no luck, moparman, you will be hearing from me...haha. That intake sounds like it'd be the one to use as well. But thanks guys! I like the idea of using the 2.5 bell, I just wonder about the input shaft length with it...meaning I wonder if that bell is shorter then the liberty one?

Luckily the BMW has the intake/exhaust on the same sides as the 2.4, so that will be good for routing and such.


Also...its looking like this is happening sooner and sooner as this 2.7 is really getting on my nerves :/ Very fun car to drive, handles excellent, stops on a dime, I personally love the looks, but man does its powerplant suck :(


Soon :)

[moparman76_69]

To my knowledge, the 2.5 bell works fine, the liberty bell is too deep for the r154. The 2.5 bell has been used with a r154 and a MA5 successfully.

[OnLooker]

Is it possible to get a picture of the caravan intake?

[strang3majik]

To my knowledge, the 2.5 bell works fine, the liberty bell is too deep for the r154. The 2.5 bell has been used with a r154 and a MA5 successfully.

[Insert your avatar here] Lol. That's awesome! Does anyone have a reference pic of this bolt offset issue on the bellhousing to block? I'd be interested in seeing this to know what I'm getting myself into...haha. Sounds easy as finding someone who welds aluminum.

[moparman76_69]

Is it possible to get a picture of the caravan intake?

Yeah I'll try and get one, been meaning to make a FS ad with it and some other stuff.


[Insert your avatar here] Lol. That's awesome! Does anyone have a reference pic of this bolt offset issue on the bellhousing to block? I'd be interested in seeing this to know what I'm getting myself into...haha. Sounds easy as finding someone who welds aluminum.

Its the same issue as bolting a 2.4 to a 555/520/523/568.

[strang3majik]

Yeah I'll try and get one, been meaning to make a FS ad with it and some other stuff.



Its the same issue as bolting a 2.4 to a 555/520/523/568.

I've never done that either...haha. But I'll do some searching.

[strang3majik]

Well...the stock 2.7 in this POS is really getting on my nerves.


This is becoming closer and closer to happening. :/

[OnLooker]

2.4 caravan intake pics?

[nowhereman]

i'm starting my rwd swap. i'm putting it in a 62 dodge lancer. i have the liberty bellhousing, 2.4 engine soon to have srt4 internals, ma5 trans. and a 420a head, which will move the intake to the passenger side putting the throttle body out front. also giving me more intake manifold choices

[Nemesismachine]

nowhereman, gotta ask you throw up some pics. So many projects start like this from unregistered users and get our pants halfway tight, and are never to be heard from again. I think Larry may be one of the few that followed it through, among the die hards here and TD.com...

[nowhereman]

any progress?

[wheming]

Would be interested in knowing what year liberty bellhousing.
Using that bell is the MA5 the only trans option?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Would be interested in knowing what year liberty bellhousing.
Using that bell is the MA5 the only trans option?

No, there are a bunch of option. First post, towards the bottom of Part III

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

[wheming]

Thanks for the assist! :thumbup:

I remember now going through those pages before. Lots of good info there but only takes a short amount of time to make my head hurt! ;)

[Reaper1]

MOPAR power in a BMW!! I LOVE it!! :thumb:

[nowhereman]

Would be interested in knowing what year liberty bellhousing.
Using that bell is the MA5 the only trans option?

03-04. but i think it's the tj that uses it also. as far as transmissions you have r154 from the supra in the price range of $1500.00. and some other weaker ones. the ma5 reports to be shronger than the r154, has a better gear ratio and can be had for around $300.00 i got mine for $275.00 the flywheel for $75.00. and the bellhousing for $80.00. you can hack out the side of the 2.5 bellhousing, or mill some material off the liberty bells face to get the proper depth.

[strang3majik]

Hmm...don't know much about the ma5.

And I sold that BMW but I'm picking up another one. This by no means will be a quick project, so, I'll just drive it on the inline 6 til I pick up all the parts.


But this seriously is THE project I want to do someday in my life. I just want a srt4 engine in a sexy, handling, RWD platform. Would make for a perfect setup.

[Aries_Turbo]

wow. i had no idea the r154 got that rare/pricy that quick.

I had one that i picked up for 190$ a few years ago. sold it to buy a wrecked AWD caravan. lol.

Brian

[wheming]

Brian, do you remember what year r154 was the best years to get?

[Reaper1]

Yeah, the R154's have really gone up in price. That's why the MA5 is getting a lot of attention now. On top of it they've proven to be solid for some good power, too. AND there's multiple versions out there with different gear ratios depending on what you get. I don't know if the aftermarket is supporting it from the sense of custom gear ratios yet, but I would think that would happen eventually considering its growing popularity.

[nowhereman]

can be had from colorado, canyon and solstice.

[wallace]

03-04. but i think it's the t5 that uses it also. as far as transmissions you have r154 from the supra in the price range of $1500.00. and some other weaker ones. the ma5 reports to be shronger than the r154, has a better gear ratio and can be had for around $300.00 i got mine for $275.00 the flywheel for $75.00. and the bellhousing for $80.00. you can hack out the side of the 2.5 bellhousing, or mill some material off the liberty bells face to get the proper depth.

Are you milling off of the end that bolts to the transmission or the engine side? How much did you have to mill off? Thanks.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Is the MA5 a 5 or 6 speed?

[nowhereman]

Are you milling off of the end that bolts to the transmission or the engine side? How much did you have to mill off? Thanks.

The engine side more than likely
But I could take an even amount by doing both ends and the amount is anywhere from. 25-.50 of an inch. I'll have. To measure the depth to be sure

[Reaper1]

Is the MA5 a 5 or 6 speed?

5-speed, but it is available in a bunch of different platforms with different gear ratios.

[nowhereman]

The other option instead of milling the bellhousing. Would be to put a pilot bearing into the flywheel instead of the crank end

[wallace]

The other option instead of milling the bellhousing. Would be to put a pilot bearing into the flywheel instead of the crank end

Yep or a spud shaft. Maybe Advance Adapters already has one?

[strang3majik]

Wanting to bump this since I have acquired another e30 BMW.

This one is a for sure keeper needing serious help in the power plant department, and, right now I have an srt4 engine I can't sell sitting in my garage. Might as well use it.

Anyone have an ax15 and bell housing for sale? :)

But looking at the stock turbo, I can clock the o2 housing to exit towards the rear so I can route the exhaust. I have two extra turbos so shouldn't be an issue. Also have an srt and pt turbo intake manifold, and both intercoolers. Injectors, fuel rails...got a ton of parts. And a pt turbo auto starter, and an srt starter. And an srt modular clutch (can this be used with an ax15? But anyway, should have a good but of the pieces I'll need.

So I need the trans, and all the clutch/flywheel, starter bits that I don't have...along with mega squirt.

So if anyone has any of this stuff, let me know! Going to take a little time gathering, but it's going to happen. I can hear the BMW purists already.

Also I like the idea of the ax15 for now. If it proves an issue I'll upgrade to an r154 or ma5 later, but stock srt hp in a light car shouldn't pose an issue.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit my above post. Going hunting for an ma5. Didn't realize they were that common, pretty sure there's a few colorados at the local junkyard.

Hmm. Also just read this post that summed it all up. Makes things easier. Lol

Don't hate for me going to the dark side.

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f68/370573-ma5-chevrolet-transmission-confirmed-work-2-a.html

[turismolover22]

That, or pick up an np535, or nv3500? From the stick dodge trucks. They used the same trans fromt he 2.5 to the 318, just different bellhoushings.

[strang3majik]

I've heard nothing good about those transmissions though. Supposedly unless you don't plan on shifting it and only mashing it while already in gear then they're fine but nothing more even behid a stock 318. Lol

[turismolover22]

Ive heard mixed reviews. Some say they work well, some dont. Then again, it really depends on if they drive it right. Some like to drop the clutch in big trucks, expecting burnies. Ive found most of the people who say stuff is junk, who i dont know/trust, usually arent doing it right. But then again, sometimes junk is junk. But for something thats cheap, plentiful, and rightfully bolt-on with near zero mods, is a good starting point.

[strang3majik]

I've only ever seen one in the junkyard, so I don't know how plentiful they are...lol

Also, I thought the bellhousings were part of the case on those?

[turismolover22]

Nope, i have an np535. Bolts to it like a wc bg t-5. Might actually be the piece to score, would be a great base since it is so close to the 2.4 bolt pattern. I could see the center ring being milled, or the input shaft snout being custom, and nearly staright bolting it to a t-56 or something along those lines. Better than a full custom bellhousing id suppose.

[Aries_Turbo]

Brian, do you remember what year r154 was the best years to get?

sorry wayne, just saw this now. 87-92.

[nowhereman]

looking forward to your progress. time to get motivated

[wheming]

So, what are we seeing there for a trans, clutch, flywheel and bellhousing setup?
Thanks! Oh, do you have an estimated weight?

[strang3majik]

looking forward to your progress. time to get motivated

Yes, more info on what exactly we're seeing there please! Its a gorgeous site...lol

[nowhereman]

Thats a jeep liberty bell housing. 2.4 flywheel, and a ma5 trans from a pontiac solstice. The trans is also used in in the colorado and canyon pickup trucks. The clutch will be from an s10.the trans is a 5 speed and can handle 500 horse power.stronger than the supra r154 and cheaper in price

[wheming]

Thanks. :thumbup:

[strang3majik]

and impossible to find in my area :(

[Ondonti]

What exactly is the basis for saying this ma5 is stronger then an r154? I know r154's will have thrust washer problems at high power levels but that is supposed to be fixable. By high power I mean..a lot more then 500whp. Not sure how well either of these transmissions shift at high rpms. I don't think I would want to go with an r154 at those prices, especially if you might have a failure.

I wish there were more turbo manifold options for 2.4 heads that were RWD friendly and not weird or bad designs (the ebay stuff).

[Aries_Turbo]

it sucks that the r154 used to be cheap a few years ago. i had one for 190$.

Brian

[strang3majik]

I wish you still did...I'd settle for one in a moment...lol

But someone has an r154 on craigslist by me for $550, needs an input shaft bearing. Then another for $1200 for a rebuilt one.

These people are nuts. I'm almost to a t56 at that point and I'd much rather have one of them!

[Force Fed Mopar]

The MA5 is basically a descendent of the R154.

[Aries_Turbo]

I wish you still did...I'd settle for one in a moment...lol

But someone has an r154 on craigslist by me for $550, needs an input shaft bearing. Then another for $1200 for a rebuilt one.

These people are nuts. I'm almost to a t56 at that point and I'd much rather have one of them!

contact METZ either on here or td. he bought all my stuff when i sold it.

Brian

[strang3majik]

The MA5 is basically a descendent of the R154.

I know! I want one...but not too many Colorado/Canyons in junkyards quite yet...lol

And I contacted him a while back...I don't think he has the trans anymore or was keeping it. I know he had an intake mani though.

[nowhereman]

I have another bite on an MA 5 trans with only 40,000 miles on it. Guy want $300.00 if your intersted

[BBBDakota]

The daks with the 2.5 and holset hx 30 is pretty stout. I cant go above 28 psi just yet but them new 5.0 butsangs can't hand lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Mustangs can't hang... This spell correction is a little skewed.

- - - Updated - - -

But that was my first plan. The trans our of the Jeep liberty with the 2.4 and build the motor up a bit then shove some wind down its throat.