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MC#4
01-14-2012, 04:56 PM
I saw that sundance6G72 was talking about this in his build thread but I didn't want to clutter his thread all up. Some things have changed for me and I have a little wiggle room to do some mods to my car. I have the top end partially apart right now to replace head gaskets that I blew 2 months ago. I'm currently porting the plenum and I think I'd like to do some more mods while the car is down.

Ok I'm really looking to get some cam regrinds but I have a few questions. I know a few people have had this done and I'm curious about details.

1. I've read Crower and RPW were doing regrinds but I guess RPW is austrailian based and therefore turnaround would be much longer. Turbovanman also had some options I think, not sure if they were regrinds though?
2. It seems as though I have a unique situation since there are very few Non-turbo V6's with a 7k rev limit let alone nitrous on top of it.
3. Rick Lozier's cams come up in almost every thread about cams but facts are hard to come by. No one seems to know if the cams were any good past 6200 or so or if it had any street manners.
4. Cost seems to be around $150-$200 for (2) regrinds. Wondering if this is still the case?
5. I have a spare set of cams from my header mock up motor. They are from a 96ish van. Any problems with sending these out to get regrinds?

I just sent this message to Crower.
Hi there, I am very interested in getting (2) camshaft regrinds. This would be for a '94 Dodge Shadow 3.0 V6 SOHC. (6G72 engine ID). Stock rev limiter was set at 5800 rpms but my rev limiter is now set at 7000rpms. I want to take full advantage of my new found rpms. The car does have intake and exhaust modifications as well as 75hp shot of nitrous. I want it to remain streetable so I don't want to only make power above 5k rpms or anything. Would something like 2500-7000 be possible? I am planning on uprading valve springs as well as mild head porting while I have the top end apart. Please let me know turn around time and approx. cost. Thank You!

P.S. In case you haven't seen before. I am running a socketed ecu from shel-game with a 7k rev limit. The factory map was NOT changed at all. Shel-game says the car should run up to 7k but it will run with the same fuel/timing as it does as 6k. I have not driven the car with the new ecu yet, but I do have a wideband installed and will report back with results of how the car reacts about 6k.

Ondonti
01-14-2012, 05:05 PM
RPW does billet cams. Supposedly core are from china but who knows. They are big bucks (near 1000 dollars).
There is a local place here called Delta cams that does very affordable extreme things BUT they wanted to see my custom Vintage Racing cams camshaft before making me a new cam and that turned me off.

IMO, if you know a race shop nearbye, its likely they have a cam guy. Thats what I did.

turbovanmanČ
01-14-2012, 05:30 PM
I have 2 regrinds, both work with the factory computer but the race one does need valve spring mods as the stockers can't handle it, but can get anything made you want, barring of course the limits of regrinding the stockers.

Ed Kelly has some of my RV cams, I sold him a set probably 5 years ago or longer.

Becareful of Crower, their quality control is brutal, many threads on SRT forums of their cams looking like someone took a chisel to them and fixing them is like :banghead: Not to mention turn around time and they don't listen to you, that was the case with Kreel.

Sundance 6g72
01-14-2012, 05:39 PM
i cant vouge for dsm graveyard other than the fact that they have a good rep in the dsm community. they also do 3s stuff and told me yesterday that they will regrind my cams. i dont have a price yet but i hope its decent so i can make a day trip over there and get them done. just another source to think about.

shayne
01-14-2012, 07:51 PM
i stand behind simons cam guy, he's been doing it for longer than some of us have been alive. and he has the results to stand behind. and he will work with you to make up what you want, most cam grinders will just give you what they already have and thats it. you should go ahead and save for a porting job of if you can do it yourself, do that. just beware that one can ruin a set of good heads without a proper understanding of the work you need to apply. ideally you want to port and do the cams at once. with your flow numbers you can choose a cam that best suits your rpm and hp needs.

MC#4
01-14-2012, 10:59 PM
http://www.3si.org/forum/f36/sohc-above-beyond-mod-bible-476200/

This makes the rick lozier cams look pretty good. (for N/A at least) Power to 7k, steetable, cheap. Any one care to reinforce/refute the SOHC bible?

shayne
01-14-2012, 11:16 PM
cheap is relative, more and more customers are becoming disastisfied with crower's lesser known product lines like regrinding, like simon mentioned. buyer beware. most of the posters in that thread have little experience seriously modifying a sohc 12valve, and fewer still have any experience with that cam, and talk about it as if they run it themselfs, based solely on what they have heard. so what you need to do is find someone who actually runs a car with it and ask for impressions and powerband, and necessary mods to make it work effectively.
reliable and cheap is not fast
fast and cheap is not reliable
fast and reliable is not cheap.

Sundance 6g72
01-14-2012, 11:28 PM
yeah i dont like taking advice from sohc 3s guys because they *ususally* are the ones that bought a stealth because it was a stealth, not because they wanted a twin turbo awd car... so then they evenautlaly find out that its *slow* and want to upgrade it with intake and exhaust and expect big gains. for sohc 6g72, us dodge guys are way ahiad of the game

ricks cam grind isnt exactly un proven.. it got the car into 12s with spray.. he didnt go cheep with it either.. its a thought out cam that i would trust but his car isnt my car so maybe its not good for me? the specs on it prove that its a decent upgrade that isnt harsh enough to ruin streetabilty

as far as the sohc bible that brent wrote goes, i agree with everything.. its all straight forward

MC#4
01-15-2012, 12:15 AM
I didn't even read the posts in that thread, I was just referring to Ondonti's post. It looks like this particular grind would suit my needs pretty well. I've got nothing against turbovanman's (simon?) grinds except cost, this is a budget build for me. I'm new to cam regrinds, can anyone use that number and come up with the same cam? I have a local guy in mind if so.

Sundance 6g72
01-15-2012, 12:24 AM
you want to take that cam number and look it up on the crower site.. copy down all the info and have your cam guy make the cam.

is that what your asking?

shayne
01-15-2012, 02:02 AM
and my point was that ordonti hasnt used the cam in question i dont really think anyone has those cams in a running and driving 3l car so nobody can really know, i dont think the person who owns rick loziers (reaper, i believe) car has it in running shape to be able to give you an idea of what to expect. and also if you see pics of that car, it had one purpose and one alone, to be a drag car, so that leads me to scrutinize the suitability of those cams in a street, or street and mild strip motor, also, you if you have emissions testing in your area, lumpy cams seldom pass the sniffer, and in the odd case it throws a code most emissions places wont even test you. these are all things to think about.
as for simons cams, i cant make anyone buy from him, im just saying that his guy is really smart and offers excellent grinds that work really well for the application that you work together with. for me the cams i bought are exactly what i wanted, modified to my spec, and the service and workmanship are top notch.

Sundance 6g72
01-15-2012, 02:37 AM
no arguing with you there. Sniffer test went out the window when i got megasuirt :P BUT The op does run his stock ecu so maybe thats important.

to pass emissions, its not that hard to swap back to stock cams ONCE a year and swap to stock type exhaust. Thats what i would do. I ran dual ecus.. i could swap from megasquirt to sbecII in 40 seconds (unless you count the injector swap)

anyways, back to cams. Im open to anyone who can get me a regrind cam, and im sure everyone else is. We would just like to know all the specs on said cams.. rick's cam is open the public but it sounds like the other guy only tells us the duration (and i dont know JACK about cams so maybe thats all we need to know?)

turbovanmanČ
01-15-2012, 03:43 AM
My info is posted in the vendor section, and like I said, I can get anything made barring the stock cam limitations.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?11413-For-you-N-A-3.0L-guys-stage-1-and-race-cams!&highlight=cams

I'll confirm the specs and pricing as its been a few years, then you can make up your own minds. :nod:

---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------


no arguing with you there. Sniffer test went out the window when i got megasuirt :P BUT The op does run his stock ecu so maybe thats important.

to pass emissions, its not that hard to swap back to stock cams ONCE a year and swap to stock type exhaust. Thats what i would do. I ran dual ecus.. i could swap from megasquirt to sbecII in 40 seconds (unless you count the injector swap)

anyways, back to cams. Im open to anyone who can get me a regrind cam, and im sure everyone else is. We would just like to know all the specs on said cams.. rick's cam is open the public but it sounds like the other guy only tells us the duration (and i dont know JACK about cams so maybe thats all we need to know?)

Why would you have issues with the sniffer test? If the cams aren't that big and you can tune, I don't see an issue. My last set of cams were pretty wild and I could easily pass a sniffer test.

Sundance 6g72
01-15-2012, 05:32 AM
I didnt bring up the sniffer.. i was just stating that its not a factor (for me)

Checking link naow

RoadWarrior222
01-15-2012, 01:07 PM
I've got nothing against turbovanman's (simon?) grinds except cost, this is a budget build for me.

I haven't had the spare cash for them yet, but the pricing seemed reasonable to me.... of course you'll always see SBC and 5.0 cams dirt cheap, and cheaper and actually available used.

If they're good quality, it's cheaper than doing it wrong a couple of times first. But of course he can't compete if the local wrecker wants to give away a pair of diamante cams for $20, not that they're the same thing.

Ondonti
01-15-2012, 02:54 PM
Not reading all this. Quality control is something to always worry about. Seen tIII guys with ruined cams from I can't remember who. Nothing wrong with checking the parts you receive. That has been a problem with vendors here too.

I trust my cam guy but Kreel wanted to save 40 bucks and he paid for that savings. My guy did what I wanted even though I probably asked for too much at that time.
As long as you are using a cam card and not trying something custom its probably easier to trust products.

Kreel
01-16-2012, 02:53 PM
Yeah, I went with Crower and regretted making the choice. They lost my cams once, lost all my paperwork another time, and reground them incorrectly when I made specific requests. They eventually made everything right but it was a multi-month ordeal. I saved money but it cost me a lot of time and I wouldn't recommend them if you're doing anything they consider a "custom" regrind.

c2xejk
01-17-2012, 01:57 PM
I ordered one of Crower's off the shelf regrinds. It took over a month and likely would have taken longer if I hadn't proded them. I was told by their customer support that it take about 2 weeks... I would love to put the cams I got on a cam doctor to see exactly what they are because I am not convinced they are what they said (they may be...) Compression ratio between the two banks is off 10 psi (all cylinders.)

For my next cam I am strongly considering Delta so I can have the lobes welded to equalize the seperation angle.

MC#4
01-17-2012, 03:59 PM
Well it looks like Crower is out. Turbovanman do you have updated info yet?

P.S. I've read in different places about our rockers being 1.5 and 1.6 ratio. Does anyone know for sure which it is?

Sundance 6g72
01-17-2012, 04:32 PM
wow just talked with DSM graveyard about cam regrinds. i already forgot his name but what a nice guy. he remembers me from facebook and from our local forum, he made me feel special by actually remembering me.

hes really busy today but said he will call back with an estimate for 12valve regrinds. HE told me the typical 4g63 16valve regrinds cost $250 so our cams should not be much different.

he told me they are trying to make it into the 3s market a little bit so thats good for us, even though we are the minority as far as the 6gx goes.. he still made me feel like he cared and thats saying alot compared to some of our vendors who shove us off and give us the run around.

stand by

shayne
01-17-2012, 08:44 PM
the factory hydraulic roller (not slider type) rockers are effectively 1.6:1 ratio as i measure it to be.

Sundance 6g72
01-18-2012, 12:06 AM
Guy at dsm graveyard got back to me in my thread to let me know he didnt get a chance to quote me yet but would like to know what grind im looking for. sense im not sure yet, what would you guys want a price on?

http://www.xceedspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200651&p=4059976&viewfull=1#post4059976

post 95 is where he posted.

Ondonti
01-18-2012, 06:12 AM
the factory hydraulic roller (not slider type) rockers are effectively 1.6:1 ratio as i measure it to be. Yup. Force Fed measured 1.62 I measured 1.6. Hydraulic sliders are only 1.38 (or whatever I said in the valvetrain thread on BoostedMopar) but the cam also seems tiny but I didn't measure all its aspects. It is pointy, a very different looking profile.

I also don't know anyone running the Cam that Ed has from Crower and am not sure where that profile came from. Off the wall grinds might end up very bad.

Delta does weld cheap but I am scared of their ability to come up with a good profile.

That said, seems like a witch hunt on cams if nobody can be trusted. Cam people would not be in business if they could not do their job properly. Does that mean they are mistake free?

MC#4
01-18-2012, 09:52 AM
Guy at dsm graveyard got back to me in my thread to let me know he didnt get a chance to quote me yet but would like to know what grind im looking for. sense im not sure yet, what would you guys want a price on?

http://www.xceedspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200651&p=4059976&viewfull=1#post4059976

post 95 is where he posted.

I'll be watching to see what he says. Very interested to see what kind of turnaround time he can come up with.

turbovanmanČ
01-18-2012, 01:57 PM
Ok, sorry took so long, got slammed at work. He now has another off the shelf grind, a stage 2 so to speak, a local used one and it would smoke the tires and rev easily but not recommended for a DD unless you don't care, the stage 1 is best for a turbo. The race needs longer valves or lash caps-.035", the stage 2 varies, some do, some don't.

Not sure about pricing from others but that's the best I can do.

I asked him about welding and said no, just too many issues can be had and it drives the price thru the roof, which most aren't willing to pay.

All readings at 1.6-
Stage 1 or RV 256 dur and .408" lift, $350 plus cores and shipping
Stage 2 270 dur and .429" lift, $375 as above-
Race 280 dur and .435" lift, $400 as above.

MC#4
01-18-2012, 04:24 PM
Ok, sorry took so long, got slammed at work. He now has another off the shelf grind, a stage 2 so to speak, a local used one and it would smoke the tires and rev easily but not recommended for a DD unless you don't care, the stage 1 is best for a turbo. The race needs longer valves or lash caps-.035", the stage 2 varies, some do, some don't.

Not sure about pricing from others but that's the best I can do.

I asked him about welding and said no, just too many issues can be had and it drives the price thru the roof, which most aren't willing to pay.

All readings at 1.6-
Stage 1 or RV 256 dur and .408" lift, $350 plus cores and shipping
Stage 2 270 dur and .429" lift, $375 as above-
Race 280 dur and .435" lift, $400 as above.

Prices for a pair correct?
Any idea on turn around time?
Any idea on what kind of RPM range these will make power in?
Idle characteristics?

Sundance 6g72
01-18-2012, 05:33 PM
Stage 1 or RV 256 dur and .408" lift sounds about right for me

would bumping the duration up but leaving the lift at .408 do anything significant? im new to this stuff

Sundance 6g72
01-18-2012, 06:02 PM
The guy i talked to on my phone and on xceedspeed is a different guy than who sent me this email ( i emailed them last week)


Hey how are ya

I just looked into it, and it appears we can get them We would have to do your cams, since we don't have any cores. We outsource our cam grinding, since its become pretty complicated with the new style of cams.

When I checked, they said that your cams have a Hydraulic Intake, and a Solid Lifter Exhaust, which makes this process time consuming. They would run $749.95 plus a core to do the regrinds, but if you knew a manufacturer, we might be able to just get you new ones. They do need to be sized to the valve height as well.

Let me know, we will need around 2 weeks to get them done,

Thanks!



he must be high as ----. Were in the world did he get that our exhaust has solid lifters but the intake does not? And over $700 for regrinds.. 12 valves for crying out loud. RPW has them for $1000. The guy i talked to in my thread and on the phone seemed like he knew what he was talking about.. said that 4g63 16 valve cams go for around $250, and thats legit. Ill wait for him to respond with a price and ignore the email i got.

turbovanmanČ
01-18-2012, 10:21 PM
Prices for a pair correct?
Any idea on turn around time?
Any idea on what kind of RPM range these will make power in?
Idle characteristics?

That is a pair, correct.

Idle is smooth for the stage 1, stage 2 and race are lumpy. He said the stage 1 will rev to 7K, the others same if not higher, so basically the stage 1 is a midrange and top end cam.

Turn out, probably a couple weeks, I might have cores or can get some so that speeds things up.




Stage 1 or RV 256 dur and .408" lift sounds about right for me

would bumping the duration up but leaving the lift at .408 do anything significant? im new to this stuff

I'll ask.


The guy i talked to on my phone and on xceedspeed is a different guy than who sent me this email ( i emailed them last week)



he must be high as ----. Were in the world did he get that our exhaust has solid lifters but the intake does not? And over $700 for regrinds.. 12 valves for crying out loud. RPW has them for $1000. The guy i talked to in my thread and on the phone seemed like he knew what he was talking about.. said that 4g63 16 valve cams go for around $250, and thats legit. Ill wait for him to respond with a price and ignore the email i got.


You can't compare a mass hotrodded engine to a V6 that no one really modify's, they sell 1000's of 4g63 cams to one set of V6 cams. Just like Mustangs, dime a dozen.

Sundance 6g72
01-18-2012, 11:10 PM
Ever compared a 4g63 cam to 12valve cams? I remember them being similar

What gets me is the whole solid lifter part lol... What info did he find?

turbovanmanČ
01-19-2012, 01:50 PM
Ever compared a 4g63 cam to 12valve cams? I remember them being similar

What gets me is the whole solid lifter part lol... What info did he find?

They maybe but you need to set up for different cams and if the grinder isn't set up, he will charge more to cover that.

Haven't called yet, will today.

c2xejk
01-19-2012, 02:07 PM
turbovanman, what does your guy do with the lobe seperation angle (LSA) on the cams?

In stock form the front and rear cams have different LSA. With my current Crower cam I think they left the LSA the same and I can see the effect when testing the compression of the engine (10 psi difference between the banks.) I think I am also seeing a difference in the running engine with a fair amount of fluctuation in the A/F ratio. To get max performance out of the engine I would like to get commonize the cam profiles between banks...

Also worth noting, for my next cam I will likely be getting custom valve w/longer stems so that I can run a more heavily reground cam and possibly a cam with more lift. I will be looking for a race level cam... Needs be "streetable" enough to make the 1000 mile circuit for Drag Week... (lots of cars there that have very loppy cams!)

What is the duration @ 0.050" lift of these cams? Does he change the ramp rate of the cam? How much additional ramp does he think our hydraulic lifters take?

Thanks

Mdoe8
02-08-2012, 03:08 AM
That's very bizarre about the LSA's. I wonder what they're reasoning behind this was?

Shadow24
02-08-2012, 08:16 AM
IIRC split LSA was originally developed by Volvo to enable a motor like a v6 to have one bank have good low end power and one to have good upper end power. combine the two and you have a decent average power over a larger RPM range. This usually means drive-ability is greater for the average person.

turbovanman - do you think your cam guy's prices would change much for the SOHC 24v cams? (9 lobes per cam instead of 6) And does he have any good ideas on what the SOHC 24v cams can have done for a roots supercharged setup?

stock specs are:
4v/cyl
original base circle: 1.180
intake/ex Adv. duration 248
Intake/ex lift .270
center-line 106*/110* (split LSA)

Mdoe8
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM
I suppose that kind of sort of makes sense on the split LSA....but a matching properly designed cam makes more sense :)

The motor, after all, DID have pretty good torque and a decent rpm range....albeit slow up top.

Sundance 6g72
02-08-2012, 01:09 PM
24 valve guys blame the offset lsa on some of their engine failures.. but most of them didnt run intercoolers with their superchargers soooooooooooooooooo

Shadow24
02-08-2012, 01:55 PM
24 valve guys blame the offset lsa on some of their engine failures.. but most of them didnt run intercoolers with their superchargers soooooooooooooooooo

In the 24v application, it is true that one bank runs quite differently than the other. Couple that wth a non-intercoold centrifugal supercharger and usually a poor fueling/management system is what i consider the main culprits. However, if you tune correctly and take the corrcect precautions, the motor will run fine. One example is a club3g member that ran 15 psi on a stock GT 24v with no issues.

shayne
02-08-2012, 07:39 PM
the cams will have close (plus or minus a few degrees) to the same lsa as stock so the lobes will be different front and back heads (12valve).
shadow24, give turbovanman a pm about the 24valve cams and im sure he could find out, though the prices would be higher i assume because of twice as many cams to do.
as for offset cam lsa's the subject is kinda not spoken about much but is widely used in sohc and dohc v6's that dont use a variable cam timing system, but with a small displacement v6 like a 3.0l if you made cams that match front and rear then you do narrow the powerband to the type of grind you use in the motor, even when you cam a big nasty v8 you wind up moving around the powerband with cam change, but with them the torque loss from a hot cam isnt felt as badly because of the virtue of already being a much larger motor to begin with. the 3l's have a broad powerband stock because of the different cam lsa, and they only fall off on the top end because of lack of cam duration and intake tract that needs at least some basic clean up and porting to make flow well.

turbovanmanČ
02-08-2012, 10:18 PM
turbovanman, what does your guy do with the lobe seperation angle (LSA) on the cams?

In stock form the front and rear cams have different LSA. With my current Crower cam I think they left the LSA the same and I can see the effect when testing the compression of the engine (10 psi difference between the banks.) I think I am also seeing a difference in the running engine with a fair amount of fluctuation in the A/F ratio. To get max performance out of the engine I would like to get commonize the cam profiles between banks...

Also worth noting, for my next cam I will likely be getting custom valve w/longer stems so that I can run a more heavily reground cam and possibly a cam with more lift. I will be looking for a race level cam... Needs be "streetable" enough to make the 1000 mile circuit for Drag Week... (lots of cars there that have very loppy cams!)

What is the duration @ 0.050" lift of these cams? Does he change the ramp rate of the cam? How much additional ramp does he think our hydraulic lifters take?

Thanks

Sorry, kinda wrapped up with work, I'll get an answer tomorrow.


IIRC split LSA was originally developed by Volvo to enable a motor like a v6 to have one bank have good low end power and one to have good upper end power. combine the two and you have a decent average power over a larger RPM range. This usually means drive-ability is greater for the average person.

turbovanman - do you think your cam guy's prices would change much for the SOHC 24v cams? (9 lobes per cam instead of 6) And does he have any good ideas on what the SOHC 24v cams can have done for a roots supercharged setup?

stock specs are:
4v/cyl
original base circle: 1.180
intake/ex Adv. duration 248
Intake/ex lift .270
center-line 106*/110* (split LSA)

See above, I"ll find out.

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------


the cams will have close (plus or minus a few degrees) to the same lsa as stock so the lobes will be different front and back heads (12valve).
shadow24, give turbovanman a pm about the 24valve cams and im sure he could find out, though the prices would be higher i assume because of twice as many cams to do.
as for offset cam lsa's the subject is kinda not spoken about much but is widely used in sohc and dohc v6's that dont use a variable cam timing system, but with a small displacement v6 like a 3.0l if you made cams that match front and rear then you do narrow the powerband to the type of grind you use in the motor, even when you cam a big nasty v8 you wind up moving around the powerband with cam change, but with them the torque loss from a hot cam isnt felt as badly because of the virtue of already being a much larger motor to begin with. the 3l's have a broad powerband stock because of the different cam lsa, and they only fall off on the top end because of lack of cam duration and intake tract that needs at least some basic clean up and porting to make flow well.

Mustang 2 and 4 valve engines are notorious for being out bank to bank and put them both to specs increases HP etc.

shayne
02-08-2012, 11:24 PM
yes but the mustang motors are supposed to be aligned straight up, the mass production time limits dictate that they dont degree the motor the way an enthusiast would, mustangs' and other mod motor cams are identical lobe profiles from either bank, the 3.0l's and many other v6's have the actuall cam grind done at a different lsa to affect rpm breathing ability. i got an older copy of engine masters magazine that did a test with three different lsa cams in the same motor, iirc the first was 106 degrees, the next was 110, and the last was.. 114 i think.
it was cool to see what kinds of differences there were in power delivery and efficiency.

Shadow24
02-09-2012, 08:20 AM
Shayne,

my 24v is SOHC, same # of cams, just an extra 6 lobes compared to the 12v :)

c2xejk
02-09-2012, 01:01 PM
as for offset cam lsa's the subject is kinda not spoken about much but is widely used in sohc and dohc v6's that dont use a variable cam timing system, but with a small displacement v6 like a 3.0l if you made cams that match front and rear then you do narrow the powerband to the type of grind you use in the motor, even when you cam a big nasty v8 you wind up moving around the powerband with cam change, but with them the torque loss from a hot cam isnt felt as badly because of the virtue of already being a much larger motor to begin with. the 3l's have a broad powerband stock because of the different cam lsa, and they only fall off on the top end because of lack of cam duration and intake tract that needs at least some basic clean up and porting to make flow well.

I can afford to give up some low-rpm torque to gain higher-rpm power...

On a side note, I advanced the cams 4 degrees and did some testing last night. Indeed low-RPM power is UP. Mainly seems to be up below ~2500 RPM. Looking at the log file, you can see the rate of increase of RPM definitively fall off at higher RPM... Cruising at 55mph and the throttle was reading ~1%. I had to turn off the closed loop IAC because it was trying to mess with engine speed as I was cruising!

When I retarded the cams 4 degrees I picked up power above ~5500 RPM...

I might try making some 2 degree sprockets some time.

Sundance 6g72
02-09-2012, 01:55 PM
1% throttle at 55 is what you get with twin 80s :P

RoadWarrior222
02-09-2012, 02:09 PM
Lack of torque low down = traction control :D

One can find 2* offset keys I would think..... Or I'm kinda tempted to hog out the key slot each way and shim it.

c2xejk
02-09-2012, 02:24 PM
1% throttle at 55 is what you get with twin 80s :P

It wasn't as bad with the cams retarded 4 degrees...


Lack of torque low down = traction control :D

You got it...


One can find 2* offset keys I would think..... Or I'm kinda tempted to hog out the key slot each way and shim it.

The 3L use a pin to locate the cams. What I did was file the hole oval, then tack weld the opposite side to adjust them.

Mdoe8
02-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Just send two of the higher LSA cams (same bank) in to get a regrind. That way they match.

Sundance 6g72
02-09-2012, 02:46 PM
we thought about that but it wont work. one drives the dizzy

if you deleted the dizzy and ran coil on plug or something it still dosnt work because the cams are different the way they fit in. :( sad face

Mdoe8
02-09-2012, 02:55 PM
OHHHH good point. Forgot about that. (sad trombone sound)

Are all of the 12v cams the same offset? I know the diamante are supposed to be a tad more aggressive, do they still have the offset LSA?

Shadow24
02-09-2012, 07:21 PM
don't forget that the cams are different lengths in order for the timing belt to line up correctly (staggered pistons/heads) in addition to the 12v having the front cam drive the dizzy

RoadWarrior222
02-10-2012, 09:39 AM
Are it possible to run two front or two back heads, never looked at it.

MC#4
02-10-2012, 09:55 AM
The bare heads are identical, you can flip them and use em on either side.

Sundance 6g72
02-10-2012, 02:08 PM
problem is that they are "flipped" to fit, so no go

Ondonti
02-11-2012, 08:49 PM
Vee motor guys. Rear bank is closer to the belt then the front head. The distributor adapter housing is what extends the head all the way to the belt. As stated, heads are identical.

nordic2068452
04-10-2021, 12:41 AM
Have you heard these cams hybrid ?