Interest in Scatter Shields [Archive]

Reeves

01-01-2012, 03:51 PM

I made a scatter shield for my car last year (common block with A555) that covers the flywheel and cluch area in case of an explosion. It is made to NHRA rules.
It seems there is some interest in producing a few more of these.
I just wanted to see how many show of hands there are for people WANTING them.
If you run faster that 11.50 in the 1/4, you are supposed to have one.
Should fit any 2.2/2.5 and 460/465/525/520/555 trans bolt pattern, but we are going to be testing on 2.2L/A568 and 2.4L/A568 to see if it will also fit.

Show of hands?

Pat

01-01-2012, 04:52 PM

As disussed, Likely 2.

Ondonti

01-01-2012, 07:16 PM

Is this helping tie together the bellhousing as well or just keeping their swimmers nhra safe?

ShelGame

01-01-2012, 07:20 PM

Any chance it'll fit an A413 too?

Reeves

01-01-2012, 09:01 PM

Is this helping tie together the bellhousing as well or just keeping their swimmers nhra safe?

Honestly I just made it per the NHRA rules, but I'm sure it probably helps the bellhousing area some. It is 1/4" thick steel that is 2.5" wide. It bolts on at the top two mounting bolts, and the bottom bolt towards the rear. The two halves bolt together using (2) 3/8" bolts.

Any chance it'll fit an A413 too?

There is a pretty good chance it would fit. Maybe I can ship you one when/if we get them made so you can test it for me?

MILKCARTON

01-01-2012, 09:06 PM

Honestly I just made it per the NHRA rules, but I'm sure it probably helps the bellhousing area some. It is 1/4" thick steel that is 2.5" wide. It bolts on at the top two mounting bolts, and the bottom bolt towards the rear. The two halves bolt together using (2) 3/8" bolts.

There is a pretty good chance it would fit. Maybe I can ship you one when/if we get them made so you can test it for me?

I am very interested in one or more if it fits an auto

ShelGame

01-01-2012, 10:26 PM

cdavis

01-01-2012, 10:46 PM

I may be interested in one if it will fit the 2.4/568 combo. I'm in the beginning stage of converting to a 2.4. Hoping to have it done soon.

black86glhs

01-01-2012, 11:37 PM

Send me one and you will have the satisfaction of knowing I'm running one! :eyebrows:

Kinda sounds like your Koyo bearing posts in 135sohc's thread, doesn't it? :p

BadAssPerformance

01-01-2012, 11:48 PM

In for 1 for sure, maybe more!

cordes

01-02-2012, 12:12 AM

It may be something I would purchase in the very far distant future, but I'll need to turn way more RPMs or go way, way faster than I do now for me to buy one. I think it's a great idea for all of you fast guys though.

shackwrrr

01-02-2012, 01:27 AM

I'm not drag racing but high rpm gear changes and twisties still invite some flywheel explosion hazards. I'm interested.

OnLooker

01-02-2012, 12:01 PM

Interested in 2.2 523

Reeves

01-02-2012, 12:49 PM

JT, Tommy, Rob.....

I could take the scatter shield off my car for now, ship it to JT (2.4/568) and Tommy (2.5/568) to test fit. Then, they can ship it to Rob to test fit on A413. Then Rob can ship it back to me.

Think that is feasible and could be completed in a relatively short period of time?

BadAssPerformance

01-02-2012, 12:57 PM

I think it is feasible. Can you get it here before next weekend?

Shadow

01-02-2012, 12:59 PM

Weight?

Turbo3Iroc

01-02-2012, 01:01 PM

I'm in for one.

Force Fed Mopar

01-02-2012, 04:00 PM

I'd be in for one if it'll fit a 2.4/T350 combo :)

ShelGame

01-02-2012, 04:02 PM

I can easily test fit it on my spare A413...

tommy

01-02-2012, 07:25 PM

I'm in for one maybe more and i am up to test fit one if needed .

chilort

01-02-2012, 07:51 PM

Seems like a good idea. I'm planning on doing some racing with my car (NASA, but maybe some 1/4 mile stuff too). There will likely be others driving it (like my wife, though she doesn't have balls, thank goodness :thumb:) and I'm worried more about someone else missing a shift than the thousands of mistakes I'm likely to make.

I'm more worried about the price than my balls; I've got one screaming 5 week old kid right now and a track-made vasectomy doesn't sound all that bad.

4 l-bodies

01-02-2012, 08:49 PM

Weight?
Rob, Sometimes, you just gotta bit the bullet for safety sake. At least the weight is on the front end. I think your car and James is close to #1 and #2 qualifier for being in the market for one.
Todd

Shadow

01-02-2012, 10:14 PM

Rob, Sometimes, you just gotta bit the bullet for safety sake. At least the weight is on the front end. I think your car and James is close to #1 and #2 qualifier for being in the market for one.
Todd

Agreed, but I still want to know how much weight I will be adding. :) And your right, adding weight to the right place (right over the tires or further forward) doesn't bother me at all, but if this sucker is 50lbs of 1/4" plate, I may have to weigh my options ;) (get it? WEIGH my options! :lol:) Man, sometimes I just crack myself up! :D

BadAssPerformance

01-02-2012, 11:47 PM

I think his design is about as light as would make sense and still be safe. I say this after having sketched one up per the NHRA rule book and then seeing Reeves' at Monster Mopar Weekend last year. His way is definitely lighter than how I was planning to do it, and every bit as safe.

cordes

01-03-2012, 12:53 AM

Rob, Sometimes, you just gotta bit the bullet for safety sake. At least the weight is on the front end. I think your car and James is close to #1 and #2 qualifier for being in the market for one.
Todd

+1 The RPMs some guys are turning on the stock flywheels would have my nards clinging to the door sill so I wouldn't close the door every time I tried to jump in the car.

Reeves

01-03-2012, 10:07 AM

I think it is feasible. Can you get it here before next weekend?

Probably....

Weight?

See below.

I'd be in for one if it'll fit a 2.4/T350 combo :)

Possibly. Aren't the top two bolts, and the rear lower bolt the same bolt pattern?

I can easily test fit it on my spare A413...

I didn't even think of just trying it on the trans. Duh. I have a few A413's laying around.

I'm in for one maybe more and i am up to test fit one if needed .

Do you see JT often enough that if I ship it to him you could try it on your combo?

---------- Post added at 09:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

The below is from here:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?44482-Reeves-OMNI-GLH-R-Update!&p=844921&viewfull=1#post844921

Reeves Racing/Creative Fabrication Scatter Shield = 9lb 5.2oz

33618

Mockup:

33617

On the vehicle:

33619

Fit like a glove!

Tested it this weekend at IFO. It contained whatever broke in my trans :thumb:

Mopar318

01-03-2012, 10:55 AM

So it works on HEMI? Nice piece!

Force Fed Mopar

01-03-2012, 11:32 AM

Possibly. Aren't the top two bolts, and the rear lower bolt the same bolt pattern?

Yes they are.

Shadow

01-03-2012, 01:02 PM

See below.

Like'n it! :thumb:

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

+1 The RPMs some guys are turning on the stock flywheels would have my nards clinging to the door sill so I wouldn't close the door every time I tried to jump in the car.

Agreed, nice to be using SFI certified parts at this power level. (although that doesn't always gaurantee it's better! lol)

BadAssPerformance

01-03-2012, 02:32 PM

Do you see JT often enough that if I ship it to him you could try it on your combo?

Thats why i offered it up to you before... we are only a half hour apart

Reeves

01-03-2012, 03:51 PM

Thats why i offered it up to you before... we are only a half hour apart

Right.....sorry...thought that's what you said but wanted to make sure.

Also, Pat is going to try it out on some TIII stuff he's got to see if it'll clear the crank sensor and throttle body/intake.

Out of curiosity JT, why do you need it this week? I can remove it tonight and ship it to you if need be. We are trying to get a qoute now for the material, but I can take the measurements I need before shipping it to you.

Shadow

01-03-2012, 04:05 PM

Does this block the timing window on the trans, or can you still see it enough to see timing?

turbovanman²

01-03-2012, 04:18 PM

Do you need one for a FWD auto in NHRA?

Reeves

01-03-2012, 05:01 PM

Does this block the timing window on the trans, or can you still see it enough to see timing?

It has a removable timing window.

Do you need one for a FWD auto in NHRA?

I'm not sure on that one. I do know that Brian Slowe runs one on his car.

BadAssPerformance

01-03-2012, 05:49 PM

Right.....sorry...thought that's what you said but wanted to make sure.

Out of curiosity JT, why do you need it this week? I can remove it tonight and ship it to you if need be. We are trying to get a qoute now for the material, but I can take the measurements I need before shipping it to you.

Just cuz its going to be warm out this weekend, like 40's LOL... No rush, whenever you send it, we'll check it :thumb:

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

Do you need one for a FWD auto in NHRA?

The question is "when" (mph or ET) is one needed?

trannybuster

01-03-2012, 06:59 PM

Test vehicle as it explodes/then design change, or some type of FEA analysis.??..talk is cheap without data; crapshoot. Depending on that pretty interested!

turbovanman²

01-03-2012, 08:51 PM

The question is "when" (mph or ET) is one needed?

So what's the answer? :eyebrows:

Anyone have a TC come apart?

Shadow

01-03-2012, 08:58 PM

It has a removable timing window.

Nice, I guess you thought of everything. Does it integrate to the rear axel housing on the trans to strengthen the diff section of the case? :P

Pat

01-03-2012, 08:59 PM

So what's the answer? :eyebrows:

Anyone have a TC come apart?

If anyone was going to be the first, it would be you with your luck! Get a scattershield on there...better safe than sorry.

BadAssPerformance

01-03-2012, 09:09 PM

Test vehicle as it explodes/then design change, or some type of FEA analysis.??..talk is cheap without data; crapshoot. Depending on that pretty interested!

Please don't play games.

Here is all that was claimed:

Honestly I just made it per the NHRA rules, but I'm sure it probably helps the bellhousing area some. It is 1/4" thick steel that is 2.5" wide. It bolts on at the top two mounting bolts, and the bottom bolt towards the rear. The two halves bolt together using (2) 3/8" bolts.

And this is what will be tested:

I could take the scatter shield off my car for now, ship it to JT (2.4/568) and Tommy (2.5/568) to test fit. Then, they can ship it to Rob to test fit on A413. Then Rob can ship it back to me.

trannybuster

01-03-2012, 11:03 PM

Shadow

01-04-2012, 12:07 AM

I think this was made (like most things in this community) because nothing exists that is available for purchase and use. So like everything else, it has to start somewhere. Fortunatly, it started on one of the top power cars and by someone who goes to lengths to assure that as much thought was put into it as possible.

A shield of this design is pretty straight forward. Either the material is capable of holding back the debris or it isn't. So, I would think that if one follows the NHRA rules and uses a little common sense, it Should be good. No?

Also remember, this is a super Cheap community. Make a nice piece like this and then go to the trouble of getting SFI approval and no one wants to pay for the time and effort :( Then the whole thing gets scrapped and everyone looses :(

ShelGame

01-04-2012, 09:29 AM

Games...?? I asked for data to ensure this would save my life isnt a game! Really..?? I dont rely on brakes that 'should work' (safety device)..??...Actually if you have Unigraphics NX5 or any other kind of 3d Modeling most come with FEA software which truly isnt so hard to setup and run a simulation. If its made to NHRA rules can it be endorsed? I dont mind spending the money but where is the work besides bending a hunk of steel? Probably should make ppl paying for one of these sign some type of waiver stating that it MIGHT save them. Thanks in advance.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

BTW I understand that not anything is 100%....AND I polled I would prbably buy one, cause I like my family jewels and something is better than nothing!

Actually, it's pretty hard to simulate an explosion in any FEA software. Linear FEA software (which is the basic type of FEA that comes with major CAD programs) assumes that the part doesn't break, even when you theoretically stress it beyond it's limits. Even if you estimated the size of a chunk of the flywheel or torque converter, how do you estimate how much energy is lost when it goes thru the bellhousing? Then, how do you estimate the size of those chunks and their energy? Even if you could, you still need a non-linear, dynamic FEA package to do the crunching. That generally does not come built-in to any CAD software.

Really the only way it could be proven is to put it on a dyno and force a flywheel to explode. I guess if one were sent off to SFI for certification, that's what they would do. But, in fact, the NHRA suggested specs are designed to exceed the specs of parts that have PASSED the SFI testing. That's probably as good as you're going to get unless Reeves wants to sell a bunch of these and decides to foot the bill for the SFI testing...

Reeves

01-04-2012, 09:46 AM

I'm only selling these to fill a void....not get rich. I'm making NO guarantee of any kind that it will save ANYTHING in the event of a clutch or flywheel failure. It is made per NHRA rules and will pass NHRA tech and that's it. I for one feel way more comfortable running one. I made this for my own car for 2 reasons:

1.) NHRA says you have to have one if running faster than 11.50
2.) I wanted one after installing the one off totally custom dual disc clutch

Since I already had one made and done, I had a few people ask about it. I'd be more than happy to just help those few people out, instead of making a batch of them.

There will be a disclaimer sent with the units.

I dont mind spending the money but where is the work besides bending a hunk of steel?

trannybuster

01-04-2012, 10:13 AM

Actually, it's pretty hard to simulate an explosion in any FEA software. Linear FEA software (which is the basic type of FEA that comes with major CAD programs) assumes that the part doesn't break, even when you theoretically stress it beyond it's limits. Even if you estimated the size of a chunk of the flywheel or torque converter, how do you estimate how much energy is lost when it goes thru the bellhousing? Then, how do you estimate the size of those chunks and their energy? Even if you could, you still need a non-linear, dynamic FEA package to do the crunching. That generally does not come built-in to any CAD software.

Really the only way it could be proven is to put it on a dyno and force a flywheel to explode. I guess if one were sent off to SFI for certification, that's what they would do. But, in fact, the NHRA suggested specs are designed to exceed the specs of parts that have PASSED the SFI testing. That's probably as good as you're going to get unless Reeves wants to sell a bunch of these and decides to foot the bill for the SFI testing...

Perhaps, but at least it would be some type of analysis wouldnt it. Linear is fine, it would give you a picture to when it would yield(Comsol may be better..?), or would the bolts fatigue first? It would be benefical and to say it isnt worth doing, well......Reeves has a solid head on his shoulders, Im sure it would deflect it, the thing looks solid and really thats all it needs to do(deflect to other direction). I think a dual clutch def. needs it, alot more mass than what was intended for factory pieces. Got a ballpark price..??? Sorry if I missed in the thread.

FYI... Took my brother for a ride in the 's', mind you he had a Cuda that ran 12's spining most way down track and he said the thing was scary fast..lol..in fact he kept saying 'okay, okay as it kept pulling hard over 115" so Ive been a bit edgy about that clutch visiting me inside the car, had flashback of slingshot dragsters.!

Turbo3Iroc

01-04-2012, 12:38 PM

I'm only selling these to fill a void....not get rich. I'm making NO guarantee of any kind that it will save ANYTHING in the event of a clutch or flywheel failure. It is made per NHRA rules and will pass NHRA tech and that's it. I for one feel way more comfortable running one. I made this for my own car for 2 reasons:

1.) NHRA says you have to have one if running faster than 11.50
2.) I wanted one after installing the one off totally custom dual disc clutch

Since I already had one made and done, I had a few people ask about it. I'd be more than happy to just help those few people out, instead of making a batch of them.

There will be a disclaimer sent with the units.

It has been a little bit since I looked at the rule book on these. From what I remember it says one made to SFI specs (basically home made) is ok if a SFI shield is not available.

Pat

01-04-2012, 01:03 PM

It has been a little bit since I looked at the rule book on these. From what I remember it says one made to SFI specs (basically home made) is ok if a SFI shield is not available.

It said SFI scattersheild but if one was not available, it had to be a full wrap around with the exception of the diff area (on a FWD) made of 1/4" thick steel.

Turbo3Iroc

01-04-2012, 01:07 PM

It said SFI scattersheild but if one was not available, it had to be a full wrap around with the exception of the diff area (on a FWD) made of 1/4" thick steel.
Thank you Pat. I know I looked at it before and that is what I saw also.

turboshad

01-04-2012, 01:43 PM

Sorry man, a few points for you....

Static FEA will tell you nothing in regards to the situation a scatter shield is intended for. If you really want one I can do it but it won't tell you squat.
Setting up a dynamic simulation is not easy at all. Yes I can do dynamic FEA but no I'm not going to spend that kind of time on it.
No the bolts won't yield before the plate does. Even if they did it would still work to scatter and dissipate the energy of the flying pieces.
Reeves made it to NHRA spec. Do you do a static FEA on your roll cage design or do you just make it to spec? There is a reason the specs are what they are.
Like Shadow said, the TD community would never come close to paying for a part with studies, research and certification behind it. That is why there is a spec that people can make stuff to that don't have SFI available parts.

Perhaps, but at least it would be some type of analysis wouldnt it. Linear is fine, it would give you a picture to when it would yield(Comsol may be better..?), or would the bolts fatigue first? It would be benefical and to say it isnt worth doing, well......Reeves has a solid head on his shoulders, Im sure it would deflect it, the thing looks solid and really thats all it needs to do(deflect to other direction). I think a dual clutch def. needs it, alot more mass than what was intended for factory pieces. Got a ballpark price..??? Sorry if I missed in the thread.

FYI... Took my brother for a ride in the 's', mind you he had a Cuda that ran 12's spining most way down track and he said the thing was scary fast..lol..in fact he kept saying 'okay, okay as it kept pulling hard over 115" so Ive been a bit edgy about that clutch visiting me inside the car, had flashback of slingshot dragsters.!

trannybuster

01-04-2012, 03:34 PM

^^I assure you it WILL tell you something. I agreed it wouldnt be exact..but Comsol is better at it than shooting from the hip, junk in=junk out, it needs to be setup properly. The model would take 15mins, even less..? Anyhow enough brow beating...how long will the poll last until preorder? Thanks in adavnce.

Juggy

01-04-2012, 03:38 PM

what kind of price are we talking here? PM me if you dont want to announce it to everyone.
I know Ill be needing one, just dont know if/when I will be able to afford it.

thanks,
Juggy

Reeves

01-04-2012, 03:56 PM

shackwrrr

01-04-2012, 05:36 PM

I have a price for the materials, I have a price for the labor, I'm getting a price for shipping today. I have a sale price in mind, but want to make sure it fits other apps before deciding if mods to the original design are needed.

I do not have a hardware cost yet. Would you like to see it include hardware, or just get that on your own?

A hardware option would be nice. The area I live in you'd get hung by the kkk if you asked for metric

BadAssPerformance

01-04-2012, 11:37 PM

Actually, it's pretty hard to simulate an explosion in any FEA software. Linear FEA software (which is the basic type of FEA that comes with major CAD programs) assumes that the part doesn't break, even when you theoretically stress it beyond it's limits. Even if you estimated the size of a chunk of the flywheel or torque converter, how do you estimate how much energy is lost when it goes thru the bellhousing? Then, how do you estimate the size of those chunks and their energy? Even if you could, you still need a non-linear, dynamic FEA package to do the crunching. That generally does not come built-in to any CAD software.

Really the only way it could be proven is to put it on a dyno and force a flywheel to explode. I guess if one were sent off to SFI for certification, that's what they would do. But, in fact, the NHRA suggested specs are designed to exceed the specs of parts that have PASSED the SFI testing. That's probably as good as you're going to get unless Reeves wants to sell a bunch of these and decides to foot the bill for the SFI testing...

Sorry man, a few points for you....

Static FEA will tell you nothing in regards to the situation a scatter shield is intended for. If you really want one I can do it but it won't tell you squat.
Setting up a dynamic simulation is not easy at all. Yes I can do dynamic FEA but no I'm not going to spend that kind of time on it.
No the bolts won't yield before the plate does. Even if they did it would still work to scatter and dissipate the energy of the flying pieces.
Reeves made it to NHRA spec. Do you do a static FEA on your roll cage design or do you just make it to spec? There is a reason the specs are what they are.
Like Shadow said, the TD community would never come close to paying for a part with studies, research and certification behind it. That is why there is a spec that people can make stuff to that don't have SFI available parts.

^^^ Well said, X2 guys. Yes, there is a reason the specs were written the way they were.

The NHRA spec for the "home built"/"non-SFI approved" sheilds requires heavier stock and hardware than many of the SFI approved parts have. To get the SFI approval physical testing and validation is required. That is how some of the SFI approved parts can be made more mass efficient, and also why the non-SFI requirements force a higher factor of safety.

^^I assure you it WILL tell you something.

Exactly what "WILL" static FEA tell you about an explosion and resulting impacts?

Have you ever done FEA either mathematically or with software? Do you realize how many variables and assumptions need to be considered correctly and can cause error with the slightest variation?

The model would take 15mins, even less..?

You got 15 minutes, show us what you got :thumb:

trannybuster

01-05-2012, 01:59 AM

^^Ha, I work for AAM, I use simulation software everyday,in fact I setup a DeForm simulation in 10mins for a new shaft for Linamar and it cranked it out in 15mins(okay Im using a $4000.00 pc.. :), load prediction, material flow, tool yeild,press loads, I ran 25 differnt iterations in one day and had tooling designed in TWO DAYS, 1st pass aka extrusion 2nd pass forge, press fits, tool types blah blah. I could draw that thing in 15mins flat,probably less with a sketch on bar napkin to get wheels movin. Deisgned ALL the end of arm robot tooling for our Aja8 3000 ton machine, all modeled as well as prgm'd a good part of robot stuff, PLC (slc500) Im not so good at. I could on for hours, I gurantee Ive ran more simulations in one day than anyone on this forum in a year and probably modeled more components as well......facts...these quotes arent my lifes work, more a less than months worth. Weisco was just at our shop not 6 months back looking at how we do our automation as we do it on the cheap, innovation before capital. A good engineer uses ALL the tools in his handbag, so to say. The reason that is, is that we all make mistakes, so the more data collected the better its made PERIOD. Again I wasnt asking for every situation. We 've spent millions on space prgm and that things blown up a few times..lol...doh.

Force Fed Mopar

01-05-2012, 10:12 AM

Sooo, whip up a simulation then :) Or will they not let you do that at work? Did any of those sims you mentioned involve them exploding or flying apart at 7000rpm? Simply finding a part's breaking point seems different to me than finding it's destructive energy at a certain speed or momentum. I know jack about engineering and computer sims though :p

trannybuster

01-05-2012, 10:40 AM

Just got a whole press line dumped on me yesterday, Ill be lead on ALL the robot automation ie grippers , induction heating layout. I cant say too much for fear of insider trading. Anyone in the area needing a job visit the website regularly http://www.aam.com/Careers/Hourly-Jobs-138.html , the shop has been hiring people and I wont kid you this isnt work cutout for women although I know some are quite capable. Need to be very mechanically inclined. When I was at Accugear for 3months they hired like mad men and Oxford Forge across the street hires most times.
A quick simulation of linear load would be fine (how many times do I need to says this...). For a quick simulation keep it short and sweet (low tetrahedra count, or mesh, whatever you choose to call it), shoot for max energy. With a couple weeks or so of training you could easily do some crude analysis :)

ShelGame

01-05-2012, 11:24 AM

Well, I could do a crude analysis right now. I could tell you what it's breaking strength is at any given point on the shield, I could tell you how much deflection it will have for any given load. I could even calculate it's natural frequency. But, none of that will matter when a chunk of flywheel and parts of the bellhousing hit it. That's the point.

Where I work, we have guys with PHD's running impact simulations on supercomputers nearly 24hrs/day. If you really want to know what happens when a large chunk of metal hits another piece of metal at high speed, that's what you need.

If you can come up with a way to adequately approximate the impact performance of the scatter sheild with a static linear simulation, then I think we're all ears.

trannybuster

01-05-2012, 11:40 AM

Lol you guys are great, I can just imagine a group of you standing around trying to design a car 'aw fu'k it, its heavy, about yay thick, itll hold' ........kudos.

Well, I could do a crude analysis right now. I could tell you what it's breaking strength is at any given point on the shield, I could tell you how much deflection it will have for any given load. I could even calculate it's natural frequency. But, none of that will matter when a chunk of flywheel and parts of the bellhousing hit it. That's the point.

Where I work, we have guys with PHD's running impact simulations on supercomputers nearly 24hrs/day. If you really want to know what happens when a large chunk of metal hits another piece of metal at high speed, that's what you need.

Apples and oranges...what they have going on isnt some simple scatter shield Ill assure you.

Is it better than nothing? I think so(really most of what you propose is simple math, and thats fine), or do you prefer ignorance and bliss? I can see why ppl get fedup in this community, a handful of know it all quacks brow beat a few and feel good about themselves...love the smell of hypocrisy.

Force Fed Mopar

01-05-2012, 11:46 AM

Alright, this is starting to get a little off-topic guys.

turboshad

01-05-2012, 11:55 AM

I gurantee Ive ran more simulations in one day than anyone on this forum in a year and probably modeled more components as well

mmmm....OK then..:thumb: (that's a sarcastic thumb) You sure about that? So you know what I do and have designed and where it has gone and succeeded whether it be in -40C, +40C, or 3000m under water? Sorry, but that was a pretty bold and arrogant statement.

If you can come up with a way to adequately approximate the impact performance of the scatter sheild with a static linear simulation, then I think we're all ears.

^^^ This. I will eat my words as well if you can come up with something useful and relevant in regards to the purpose of a scatter shield through a static simulation. I read a whole bunch of talk, maybe it's finally time for you to help the community with all your experience and expensive tools. (PS, $4000 isn't an expensive computer)

trannybuster

01-05-2012, 12:05 PM

My point, no one here is the be all end all, but a few of you sure think so. Im not trying to cut into this round, circle thing thats going on, not how I roll.

Actually 4000.00 isnt squat, so I agree, and people have done more with paper and pencil than we ever will accomplish. Last post fellas, thanks for listening.

turboshad

01-05-2012, 12:17 PM

There is no round circle. Make a contribution and your in, but not really because there is no group to join. You bragged allot but still won't contribute. Sure I am an professional engineer, but only one of many on this site that use their knowledge, skills, and equipment to try to help better the community. I'm never going to say I know everything, or that I'm the smartest on the forum, etc. because honestly I don't think it's true. We have some great minds here and it is the gathering of all of them that will help us do things with these cars that even Carroll Shelby never imagined could be done. So my only challenge would be to use your resources, skills and knowledge to help everyone out, like the rest of "us" try to do.

Sorry James, slightly off topic here. :o

chilort

01-05-2012, 12:24 PM

I wont kid you this isnt work cutout for women

I'm really surprised this kind of misogynistic BS is allowed to fly around here.

This has gotten way off topic.

If you want to know about the things you are asking about, call. THIS WORK HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY. That's how they set the specification.

NATIONAL HOT ROD ASSOCIATION
2035 Financial Way
Glendora, CA 91741
(626) 914-4761; fax: (626) 963-5360
OFFICE HOURS
Monday through Thursday:
8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.
Friday: 8:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.

You sound like a someone with a two-year technical degree, a few months of CAD experience that you'd like to now show off, and a chip on your shoulder.

If this turns into the NERO / FWD Performance / Traction Control garbage because of this nonsense back and forth ......

R/T

01-05-2012, 02:22 PM

So, basically:

James Reeves = MERCHANT OF DEATH!!! :( :angel:

ShelGame

01-05-2012, 02:37 PM

So, basically:

James Reeves = MERCHANT OF DEATH!!! :( :angel:

Well, that's clearly a given. Sheesh...

Pat

01-05-2012, 02:45 PM

So, basically:

James Reeves = MERCHANT OF DEATH!!! :( :angel:

I heard he was providing cracked flywheels to go with his scatter shields....

Shadow

01-05-2012, 03:02 PM

I heard he was providing cracked flywheels to go with his scatter shields....

For personal "explosion" testing at home! :cool:

Force Fed Mopar

01-05-2012, 08:26 PM

A true diy testing kit...

Shadow

01-05-2012, 08:36 PM

So what's the word, these ready for local pick-up yet? Was gonna stop by for an "off season" brewsky and bring back all the Canadian orders. :)

Mopar318

01-05-2012, 09:42 PM

I went ahead and drew a rough 15 minute sketch, then tested it with my super computer. As you can see it contained the explozion just fine!
36533

cordes

01-05-2012, 09:46 PM

I went ahead and drew a rough 15 minute sketch, then tested it with my super computer. As you can see it contained the explozion just fine!
36533

And there you have it. I guess I won't share the work I've been doing by hand. I'm basically a supercomputer in human form and it took me about 17 minutes to work out the calculations.

rx2mazda

01-05-2012, 11:22 PM

There is always "one" in every thread and Trannybuster is that "one". Congrats lol

BadAssPerformance

01-06-2012, 09:59 AM

There is always "one" in every thread and Trannybuster is that "one". Congrats lol

He brought up some good points and it would be great if we did all have time and resources to do all of the analysis, explosion testing, etc.

Unfortunately, this is not a huge customer base like the Mustang or LS1 crowd where we simply call up Lakewood or other companies that have SFI approved bell housings on the shelf and due to significant sales can afford to do such testing.

So with many things, it is up to the community to make parts we need, and this is a perfect example of how we can help eachother out. :grouphug:

There is no round circle. Make a contribution and your in, but not really because there is no group to join. You bragged allot but still won't contribute. Sure I am an professional engineer, but only one of many on this site that use their knowledge, skills, and equipment to try to help better the community. I'm never going to say I know everything, or that I'm the smartest on the forum, etc. because honestly I don't think it's true. We have some great minds here and it is the gathering of all of them that will help us do things with these cars that even Carroll Shelby never imagined could be done. So my only challenge would be to use your resources, skills and knowledge to help everyone out, like the rest of "us" try to do.

Sorry James, slightly off topic here. :o

Well said :clap:

Reeves

01-06-2012, 11:38 AM

So what's the word, these ready for local pick-up yet? Was gonna stop by for an "off season" brewsky and bring back all the Canadian orders. :)

Are you going to be in the Cincy area?

It's out right now for testing on other fitments (568, 2.4L, etc). Hopefully we'll know soon what all it will fit in it's current form, or if simple changes can be made to fit a wider variety. We were going to make the template and start production before this, but if only simple changes need to be made to the original desing, then we'll wait for feedback from the test group.

I'm starting to think my original plan of just providing a few to the people that asked me personally may have been a better choice. I figured if I made ten or so off the bat then it would drive the cost down, but that comes with a bunch of BS I guess....

Shadow

01-06-2012, 12:01 PM

Are you going to be in the Cincy area?

It's out right now for testing on other fitments (568, 2.4L, etc). Hopefully we'll know soon what all it will fit in it's current form, or if simple changes can be made to fit a wider variety. We were going to make the template and start production before this, but if only simple changes need to be made to the original desing, then we'll wait for feedback from the test group.

I'm starting to think my original plan of just providing a few to the people that asked me personally may have been a better choice. I figured if I made ten or so off the bat then it would drive the cost down, but that comes with a bunch of BS I guess....

Not sure yet, there May be a car that needs picking up in Ohio, still waiting on final word, but I thought I'd throw it out there just to light a fire. :p

On the other front, I think you have to take everything with a grain of salt on the net, specially when your offering something for sale or production. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and that's what you were looking for, opinions on wether this was feesable or not, right?

I don't think anything that was said was ment to be offensive, and from a consumer point of view, it was a good thing it came up, so it could be mulled over and now ppl know where you stand and where they stand. :thumb:

If anything, I think we prob horsed around a little to much at the end there, as I'm slowly starting to put myself in the other persons shoes (never really did this before) to see the effect a little horse play has, and I think we effectively made it look like we just booted him out of our "circle"!lol (ya know, the cirlcle we said we never had! :confused2:)

I think the best annalogy was the roll cage, same principle, follow NHRA rules and your golden. Now IF this was a piece that either had to have SFI certification or it would Not pass inspection, well that would have been a whole different story.

Bottom line, I think everyone will agree that it's ALL good now, no hard feelings, burry the ol hatchet and all that! Chip, Chip and Cheerios! :D

BadAssPerformance

01-07-2012, 02:40 PM

Top secret packaged arrived from top secret location... going to garage now to check top secret fitment

Reeves

01-07-2012, 04:49 PM

Top secret packaged arrived from top secret location... going to garage now to check top secret fitment

and from the top secret phone call, it sounds like only a few simple top secret mods need to be made for fitment on a 568!

chilort

01-07-2012, 05:41 PM

I did my top secret happy dance.

bakes

01-07-2012, 06:06 PM

I did my top secret happy dance.
did you remember to wipe and flush?

BadAssPerformance

01-07-2012, 06:56 PM

and from the top secret phone call, it sounds like only a few simple top secret mods need to be made for fitment on a 568!

Top secret surgery completed and....

I learned that a pnumatic cut-off wheel in ~40°F temps WILL infact freeze internally requiring thawing and prolonged the surgery process... :(

Oh yeah... it fits! :D

Reeves' design is very nice and looks to meet or exceed the intent of the NHRA specifications :clap: Also, since he designed it to fit tight to the case (tiny L-bodies make you do things like that, and the closer the better to stop projectiles before they get too much momentum) after aforementioned doctoring was completed it fit into place easily. I only had to remove one IC pipe and a ground wire to get it in the Z...

KEEP in mind, your car WILL be different and you may have to entirely re-do your intercooler piping... mine was designed with a sheild in mind as I had planne dto make one.

ALSO KEEP in mind, your trans case WILL be different, as case to case tolerances will come into play as it is a tight wrap around design. I will send Reeves pics of every tight spot noted ont he A568 test fit and also the differences compared to the A555 (I put it on one of those too)

Tommy will call me when he gets out of work and we'll discuss if we think the 568 in the L body needs to be checked, but seriously I think we are good to go :thumb:

OH YEAH! ONE THING we still need to check is a T-III... can anyone post a pic of the crank trigger? Also of the intake manifold proximity to the bell housing?

OK, been a long day, and need to go grab some lunch... I just topped off the fuel cell, set the rev limiter to 7500 and put a brick on the accelerator pedal, will report back later with results of top secret clutch explosion test ;)

chilort

01-07-2012, 07:17 PM

did you remember to wipe and flush?

I think your happy dance might be a bit different from mine.

Turbo3Iroc

01-07-2012, 07:55 PM

Top secret surgery completed and....
OH YEAH! ONE THING we still need to check is a T-III... can anyone post a pic of the crank trigger? Also of the intake manifold proximity to the bell housing?

OK, been a long day, and need to go grab some lunch... I just topped off the fuel cell, set the rev limiter to 7500 and put a brick on the accelerator pedal, will report back later with results of top secret clutch explosion test ;)

Since it is already out that way, maybe Jackson can fit it? He is the only one I know of around there that would have a drivietrain available to test fit on without having to disassemble a running car. My drivetrain is out of the car but I do not run a stock intake, I think the TB will be very close to the vertical flange if not impeding on it.

A cam sensor sticks up probably only 3/8" off the case. I'll try to get a pic up.

Turbo3Iroc

01-07-2012, 08:15 PM

Looks like it sticks out a little more than I estimated but it is kind of shrouded. Photo was taken as square on as possible. I can email the full resolution pic to anyone that might need it.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/turbo3iroc/daytona/2012-01-07_19-04-31_419.jpg

Pat

01-07-2012, 09:45 PM

OH YEAH! ONE THING we still need to check is a T-III... can anyone post a pic of the crank trigger? Also of the intake manifold proximity to the bell housing?

OK, been a long day, and need to go grab some lunch... I just topped off the fuel cell, set the rev limiter to 7500 and put a brick on the accelerator pedal, will report back later with results of top secret clutch explosion test ;)

James and I have been PM'ing about T-III fitment...I have a complete drivetrain sitting on the stand waiting to test fit.

Turbo3Iroc

01-08-2012, 01:52 AM

James and I have been PM'ing about T-III fitment...I have a complete drivetrain sitting on the stand waiting to test fit.

Ok, so Rockville has a stop on the top secret tour :nod:

BadAssPerformance

01-08-2012, 10:53 AM

Thanks for the pic Kelly! I think we're good on the sensor maybe?

3656436565

Shadow

01-08-2012, 11:59 AM

Slightly confused here. Reeves pics shows the shield bolting together in front of the tranny. Your pics show it bolting together over the timing window? WUWT?

ShelGame

01-08-2012, 12:00 PM

Slightly confused here. Reeves pics shows the shield bolting together in front of the tranny. Your pics show it bolting together over the timing window? WUWT?

I think that's the removeable timing wondow cover...

Turbo3Iroc

01-08-2012, 01:05 PM

Thanks for the pic Kelly! I think we're good on the sensor maybe?

3656436565

Yes it appears to be in the clear. TIII TB now I'm not so sure of.

BadAssPerformance

01-08-2012, 02:00 PM

I think that's the removeable timing wondow cover...

Correct

Yes it appears to be in the clear. TIII TB now I'm not so sure of.

Pic?

moparman76_69

01-08-2012, 02:01 PM

Can you get pics of the diff area with the shield on?

BadAssPerformance

01-08-2012, 02:07 PM

Per the rules, it does not go around the dIff. We'll get some pics up.

moparman76_69

01-08-2012, 02:13 PM

Per the rules, it does not go around the dIff. We'll get some pics up.

I'm just wanting to make sure it will clear what I'm thinking it will clear. It shouldn't be a problem but I'd rather be sure now.

BadAssPerformance

01-08-2012, 02:16 PM

Turbo3Iroc

01-08-2012, 06:25 PM

As of right now, it has been test fit onto A555 and A568, so it should fit any A520,555,523,568... not tested on aA525 cuz the diff will let go before a flywheel or clutch LOL

Anything outside of the trans itself, such as IC piping, custom headers, etc. Some mods may be required to your plumbing, wiring, etc. Buyer beware

Now that you mention it, I had to trim that ear off by the starter for turbo clearance. I'm a bit concerned now:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/turbo3iroc/daytona/DSC00897.jpg

Russ Jerome

01-09-2012, 03:24 AM

I expect its gonna work on a 413, so I would be in. Minor tweeking it should work with my RWD 413
https://sites.google.com/site/shelbycoltrt/home/040.jpg
My floor is aluminum, anything will help im sure :)

rx2mazda

01-10-2012, 11:40 PM

Slightly confused here. Reeves pics shows the shield bolting together in front of the tranny. Your pics show it bolting together over the timing window? WUWT?

Really Rob? You asked earlier about the timing window and James told you he already had a removable bolt on timing window...now you ask this?:welcome:

Reeves

01-11-2012, 10:05 AM

Hardware is on it's way.

Shadow

01-11-2012, 12:11 PM

Really Rob? You asked earlier about the timing window and James told you he already had a removable bolt on timing window...now you ask this?:welcome:

Are You Really trying that Hard to PISS ME OFF!!!!!!

Trust me Boy, I PISS OFF VERY EASILY and you Really Don't want to see that side of me! :censored: :mad:

Shadow

01-11-2012, 02:47 PM

:)

I did this for all of you worry warts out there, Not for Carrolls sake! lol (I knew he knew, ya'know! :thumb:)

Shadow

01-11-2012, 04:22 PM

Really Rob? You asked earlier about the timing window and James told you he already had a removable bolt on timing window...now you ask this?:welcome:

Ha, I was looking at those biga$$ bolts that were holding it together and figured the joint was changed due to some unorthadoxed reason that James was hiding from us ;)

+ it didn't dawn on me till now that the window cover will be made of the same thicka$$ material that the rest of it's made from. :p

Gonna take a good look at the Charger tonight as I customed the comp housing to come over the trans and I'm thinking it's pretty tight there! Now this was done when I still had the big Daytona brake booster in there, so I might be able to just swap back to stock unmodded cover with 90. :)

rx2mazda

01-11-2012, 08:08 PM

Hulk Smash! lol

Shadow

01-12-2012, 01:11 AM

Hulk Smash! lol

:censored::mad::evil::p:thumb::)

OnLooker

01-16-2012, 11:34 PM

Update?

Juggy

01-17-2012, 01:14 AM