16V ported exh mani pics?

[moe44688]

I need pics of a ported tiii exh mani. I want to hog mine out as much as possible.

Thanks in advance.
Moe

[Turbo224]

Here ya go, I did this myself.

[moe44688]

Awesome! Thanks. Did you port the second to the last one on the 2nd pic?

---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

Your running a holset correct? I think I read your build thread on TD from a while back.

[Turbo224]

Awesome! Thanks. Did you port the second to the last one on the 2nd pic?

---------- Post added at 05:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

Your running a holset correct? I think I read your build thread on TD from a while back.

Yeah, I ported all of them, I just didn't take a picture after it was all finished. I am actually running a 50 trim on my car right, no Holset for me.

[moe44688]

I remember now, you sandblast and painted a whole bunch of parts during your build... I read it at some point somewhere. Anyway thanks for the pics. If anyone has anymore, I would greatly appreciate it.

[moe44688]

no one else?

[Juggy]

I got exactly what you need.....basically hog out right to the gasket. you can choose to leave the humps in there if you wish too, as TU says they may help promote velocity....the way I see it, the turbo creates all the velocity we need, so just give her ;) the most work involves smoothing/rounding the entry for the turbo. I did this manifold earlier this year and I hid it so good I cant even find it anywhere.....was looking to get rid of it but guess i need to port another now....oh well...


35980359813598235983359843598535986

[Juggy]

if your interested in some TIII parts let me know...i have a few goodies here

[moe44688]

Thanks Juggy, I might contact you next year when I get my project going, right now I'm prepping everything for storage since I'll be leaving the country next week for atleast a couple weeks.

Thanks a lot for all the pics.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------

Juggy, Really like the port work btw, I can tell how much time you put into it! I remember when I first started, I was using a dremel and a grinding stone lol.

[Juggy]

Thanks Juggy, I might contact you next year when I get my project going, right now I'm prepping everything for storage since I'll be leaving the country next week for atleast a couple weeks.

Thanks a lot for all the pics.

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------

Juggy, Really like the port work btw, I can tell how much time you put into it! I remember when I first started, I was using a dremel and a grinding stone lol.

thanks, I had lots of pics on my project but I cleaned them out. Got a ported head almost ready to go, just needs new guides, everything put on back burner for school and $$$$$ issues...besides I picked up a 2.5L 16v hybrid thats pretty much a drop in other then a few minor things like new radiator and exhaust downpipe, get the head cleaned since there seems to be some gunk in it.......but yeah the TIII is on hold here.....I might just have to slap the tiii in my lancer hehe

[moe44688]

I feel you on the school and money issues. I'm on the same boat lol.

I vote for a TIII lancer!! That would be an awesome H body.

[Juggy]

I feel you on the school and money issues. I'm on the same boat lol.

I vote for a TIII lancer!! That would be an awesome H body.

i do have enough parts to build two TIII engines now :D so its a definate possibility if the car ends up staying around (i cant drive right now either.....lol......)

[5DIGITS]

Nice job.
It takes a lot of time to port these things and you make a lot of metal splinters in the process.
Although, I have posted a few things below that differ slightly from your approach.


I got exactly what you need.....basically hog out right to the gasket. you can choose to leave the humps in there if you wish too, as TU says they may help promote velocity....

I see many exhaust manifold and two piece manifolds where they are ported to the gasket. In our cases the gaskets have large openings two allow for cheaper casting processes but this does mean that the runners (intake or exhaust) should be opened to them. Why? Imagine a garden hose with a weak spot that has stretched into a bulge in the hose. As water passes through this enlarged area it slows down and gains volume. This larger volume must then compress and then again gain velocity to enter back into the normal diameter.
In short, the gases exit the head slow/choke in the larger area. This creates a lower pressure/higher volume are that will ultimately need to squeeze through the smaller area down-stream. The downstream smaller area, in this case, is a turn. Knowing that air does not like to turn, it's typically a poor place to compound the issue, with an increase in velocity.


the way I see it, the turbo creates all the velocity we need, so just give her ;) the most work involves smoothing/rounding the entry for the turbo.

I agree but carefully approaching the process can avoid enlarging specific areas only to squeeze them back down to pass through areas that can't be reached, with a porting tool.
I also agree that the collector of the manifold is an area of focus. The turn can be 'stretched' to include the entrance of the turbine housing. This increases the short side radius and keeps the exiting air from rolling over itself as it makes the turn. You'll find when this is done aggressively, the turbo stud holes will be exposed on the inside of the manifold and the turbine housing will be larger and more tapered.



3598135986


I hope this helps.

[moe44688]

5digits, thanks a lot for the input, but you can you clarify something for me:

"The turn can be 'stretched' to include the entrance of the turbine housing. This increases the short side radius and keeps the exiting air from rolling over itself as it makes the turn. You'll find when this is done aggressively, the turbo stud holes will be exposed on the inside of the manifold and the turbine housing will be larger and more tapered." Not sure what "turn" your talking about here.

Thanks
Moe

[5DIGITS]

5digits, thanks a lot for the input, but you can you clarify something for me:

"The turn can be 'stretched' to include the entrance of the turbine housing. This increases the short side radius and keeps the exiting air from rolling over itself as it makes the turn. You'll find when this is done aggressively, the turbo stud holes will be exposed on the inside of the manifold and the turbine housing will be larger and more tapered." Not sure what "turn" your talking about here.

Thanks
Moe

Sure.
The photo below was taken from my T-III gallery and shows the transition into the turbine housing, as you look from the #3 and #4 exhaust ports.
The gray line indicates where the exhaust manifold ends and the turbine housing begins. This is the turn(s) that I'm referring to.
Notice that the turn has been tapered well into the turbine housing. This makes the transition, into the turbo, a much wider turn and moves the convergence of exhaust gases further towards the turbine wheel scroll entrance.

Look closely at the right side picture above the word "porting". The dark ring is the end of the turbo mounting stud.
Obviously, both bottom studs should be tightly installed (with anti-seize applied) during the porting process, to blend them into the port wall.

Final step - A template only insures that the two mating pieces support the same size opening but does not guarantee that they transition properly.
Bolt the turbine and exhaust manifold together to verify your work and complete the final step of blending the two components together.


36006

Did this help?

[moe44688]

Well after reading that about ten times I understand what you are saying. Thats a lot of material to take off lol. Well I'll do what I can now, but I'll have to wait till I get Holset from Jackson before I can finish. Thanks a for the pics and explaining it to me.

[5DIGITS]

No problem and anytime.
I hope it turns out great!

[rx2mazda]

In our cases the gaskets have large openings two allow for cheaper casting processes but this does mean that the runners (intake or exhaust) should be opened to them. Why? Imagine a garden hose with a weak spot that has stretched into a bulge in the hose. As water passes through this enlarged area it slows down and gains volume. This larger volume must then compress and then again gain velocity to enter back into the normal diameter.
In short, the gases exit the head slow/choke in the larger area. This creates a lower pressure/higher volume are that will ultimately need to squeeze through the smaller area down-stream. The downstream smaller area, in this case, is a turn. Knowing that air does not like to turn, it's typically a poor place to compound the issue, with an increase in velocity.


Are you talking about the gap caused by the larger gasket that will be in between the two mating surfaces? If so, how would that compare to a garden hose with a bulge analogy? That area will be very small(thousandths of an inch)and squared so to speak. The air would go their and get trapped would it not?

Like an airplane creates lift by speeding up the air over the wing by making the leading edge curved but, if you disrupt that smooth curve(i.e. Ice build-up)then the air doesn't flow like it should and you lose lift. Excuse my ignorance, I don't know a ton about fluid dynamics and I'm not suggesting that gasket matching the mating surfaces won't make the best flow......What I'm really asking is if having a larger than port gasket between the surfaces will affect power to measurable extent? If I dynoed a set-up with matched everything and got say 200whp and then added a bigger gasket in between the surfaces and dynoed again would I get less power? Thanks.

[mpgmike]

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd270/mpgchris/ExhaustManifoldPort1.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd270/mpgchris/TurboPort1.jpg

And the head port it goes to.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd270/mpgchris/TIIIIntakePort1.jpg

Mike

[5DIGITS]

Are you talking about the gap caused by the larger gasket that will be in between the two mating surfaces?

No, we were discussing something else but I do agree that a .010" - .030" gasket gap would be like minor cracks in pavement.. uneventful.

The discussion pertained to porting to the full gasket opening.
Chrysler, in the past, reduced cost by allowing larger process variation and, in this case, larger casting variation.
Therefore the gaskets were made with exaggerated openings to avoid ever having the gasket protrude into the port(s).
Because they're disproportionately larger, porting two mating surfaces to the size of the gasket can make an undesirable scenario for flow and tuning pulses.
This is where the previous 'hose' example was used.

I hope this helped.

[rx2mazda]

No, we were discussing something else but I do agree that a .010" - .030" gasket gap would be like minor cracks in pavement.. uneventful.

The discussion pertained to porting to the full gasket opening.
Chrysler, in the past, reduced cost by allowing larger process variation and, in this case, larger casting variation.
Therefore the gaskets were made with exaggerated openings to avoid ever having the gasket protrude into the port(s).
Because they're disproportionately larger, porting two mating surfaces to the size of the gasket can make an undesirable scenario for flow and tuning pulses.
This is where the previous 'hose' example was used.

I hope this helped.

Okay...I just read it wrong, lol! Thanks.

[Reaper1]

Are you talking about the gap caused by the larger gasket that will be in between the two mating surfaces? If so, how would that compare to a garden hose with a bulge analogy? That area will be very small(thousandths of an inch)and squared so to speak. The air would go their and get trapped would it not?

Like an airplane creates lift by speeding up the air over the wing by making the leading edge curved but, if you disrupt that smooth curve(i.e. Ice build-up)then the air doesn't flow like it should and you lose lift. Excuse my ignorance, I don't know a ton about fluid dynamics and I'm not suggesting that gasket matching the mating surfaces won't make the best flow......What I'm really asking is if having a larger than port gasket between the surfaces will affect power to measurable extent? If I dynoed a set-up with matched everything and got say 200whp and then added a bigger gasket in between the surfaces and dynoed again would I get less power? Thanks.

The short and simple answer to this is "no".

[moe44688]

mpg thanks for the pics, I like the close up of the exhaust port, exactly the kind of pics I was looking for!! (and 5digis helpful info). LWP has already ported the head and there is nothing left to port, IMO.

[Juggy]

Nice job.
It takes a lot of time to port these things and you make a lot of metal splinters in the process.
Although, I have posted a few things below that differ slightly from your approach.



I see many exhaust manifold and two piece manifolds where they are ported to the gasket. In our cases the gaskets have large openings two allow for cheaper casting processes but this does mean that the runners (intake or exhaust) should be opened to them. Why? Imagine a garden hose with a weak spot that has stretched into a bulge in the hose. As water passes through this enlarged area it slows down and gains volume. This larger volume must then compress and then again gain velocity to enter back into the normal diameter.
In short, the gases exit the head slow/choke in the larger area. This creates a lower pressure/higher volume are that will ultimately need to squeeze through the smaller area down-stream. The downstream smaller area, in this case, is a turn. Knowing that air does not like to turn, it's typically a poor place to compound the issue, with an increase in velocity.



I agree but carefully approaching the process can avoid enlarging specific areas only to squeeze them back down to pass through areas that can't be reached, with a porting tool.
I also agree that the collector of the manifold is an area of focus. The turn can be 'stretched' to include the entrance of the turbine housing. This increases the short side radius and keeps the exiting air from rolling over itself as it makes the turn. You'll find when this is done aggressively, the turbo stud holes will be exposed on the inside of the manifold and the turbine housing will be larger and more tapered.



I hope this helps.


5digits, thanks a lot for the input, but you can you clarify something for me:

"The turn can be 'stretched' to include the entrance of the turbine housing. This increases the short side radius and keeps the exiting air from rolling over itself as it makes the turn. You'll find when this is done aggressively, the turbo stud holes will be exposed on the inside of the manifold and the turbine housing will be larger and more tapered." Not sure what "turn" your talking about here.

Thanks
Moe


Sure.
The photo below was taken from my T-III gallery and shows the transition into the turbine housing, as you look from the #3 and #4 exhaust ports.
The gray line indicates where the exhaust manifold ends and the turbine housing begins. This is the turn(s) that I'm referring to.
Notice that the turn has been tapered well into the turbine housing. This makes the transition, into the turbo, a much wider turn and moves the convergence of exhaust gases further towards the turbine wheel scroll entrance.

Look closely at the right side picture above the word "porting". The dark ring is the end of the turbo mounting stud.
Obviously, both bottom studs should be tightly installed (with anti-seize applied) during the porting process, to blend them into the port wall.

Final step - A template only insures that the two mating pieces support the same size opening but does not guarantee that they transition properly.
Bolt the turbine and exhaust manifold together to verify your work and complete the final step of blending the two components together.


36006

Did this help?


bump, old thread, just noticed some replys...
thanks for the analogy Mike. i will def keep this in mind on my next manifold. unfortunately i fear that any ported exhaust manifold is going to starve my exhaust ports of flow, I havent benched my t3 head yet but expecting huge gains from exhaust side on flow. im still not sure if i made the intake ports flow more air at a faster rate or not.....but I can tell you volume has been massively increased on the intake ports, I am thinking the limiting factor should be the valves considering the size of the ports this head has now....lol.....