How to build an intercooler

[8valves]

ALL PICTURES HAVE BEEN MOVED TO LAST PAGE

I built a nicely packaged air to air intercooler to keep AC and all accessories on a customers Turbo Van. I took some quick pics through the process for those that haven't see it before.

Enjoy!

Garrett GT core, 10x12x4.5

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16122701.jpg

End tank designed and cut out from a paper template on 5000 series .125" Aluminum. This IC will utilize mirrored end tanks, so that makes it easier and nice appearing.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16154906.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16154921.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16171255.jpg

Tacked end tanks for final fitment check before dissasembling and welding the inside of the seams first, then the outside when it's finish welded.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16172436.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16172458.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-16172420.jpg

Then finish welded with machined 2.5" in/out connections from extruded AL tube, with a lathed lip on them.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-17130648.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-17130706.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/2011-11-17131508.jpg

Enjoy and go build something now!

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice work as always Aaron :thumb: Got pics of the install?

[Force Fed Mopar]

Looks great!

[tryingbe]

I was expecting to see this when I saw the title. Very nice job on yours. :)

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=3625514&postcount=76


http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k632/os_to_opposites/Picture010.jpg

[8valves]

Oh Lord... that's... interesting?

JT- It's not on yet. I left thursday afternoon for Brazil to tune a car down here and had just gotten it to that point. By tomorrow evening I'll be back and it should be installed by then, so I will make some updates. As well as the charge pipes and intake plumbing, etc. It should be a fun ride when it's all done![COLOR="Silver"]

[GLHNSLHT2]

can't wait to see the install process pics

[Ondonti]

"Going to brazil to tune a car.....HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE INTERCOOLER I AM BUILDING FOR A SOCCER VAN?!!!?!?!!!"

Priorities...

That is a lot of flowpath for the average turbo van...What brand of core do you use on the baller cars? I was tempted to make something with a Treadstone core but it ain't no Garrett. Garrett does seem hard to source big cores for an enthusiest, plus they are $$$
Was tempted to build a 4.5" thick by 24" vertical cooler but it seems like I would create too much flowpath and maybe wish I had a little longer core since the flowpath might end up being excessive for a 67mm. I just know I have seen my friend find huge bottlenecks on his flowbench with those 3" mishumoto type intercoolers even though they have very few internal fins.
I do know that with a tight finned core you need more flowpath. Seen guys running those huge 6" thick ETS intercoolers but those still don't have much more flowpath then this little intercooler you just built.

[Mopar318]

Awsome work. Im thinking about building my own inter-cooler. I have the ability to draw end tanks in solid edge and convert it to a sheet metal layout. That makes the layout very easy without having making templates.

[168glhs1986]

JT- It's not on yet. I left thursday afternoon for Brazil to tune a car down here [COLOR="Silver"]

Aaron - can you tune Electromotive? If so how bout I fly you up here for a day of tuning with Brian and myself. You;ll get to see your block in action.

[ajakeski]

Slick.
You should sell those.

[bakes]

OH no if Simon see this he will have cubby and he will be trying to dry hump everyone dam you Aaron. LOL

Nice work thanks for sharing..

[omni_840]

Awesome work! Looking forward to install pics:nod:

[turbovanman²]

Why do you make it look so easy, :(

Nice work, I should get my triple core stocker made one day, ack.

[johnl]

I'm impressed. Just gorgeous.

[turbovanman²]

I was expecting to see this when I saw the title. Very nice job on yours. :)

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=3625514&postcount=76


http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k632/os_to_opposites/Picture010.jpg

Damn, I call BS that he actually ran it, he never did post up pics of it installed.

[BadAssPerformance]

Aaron - can you tune Electromotive? If so how bout I fly you up here for a day of tuning with Brian and myself. You;ll get to see your block in action.

Someone else runs electromotive... was it Warren Stramer?

[8valves]

Thanks for the compliments guys.


"Going to brazil to tune a car.....HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE INTERCOOLER I AM BUILDING FOR A SOCCER VAN?!!!?!?!!!"

Priorities...

That is a lot of flowpath for the average turbo van...What brand of core do you use on the baller cars? I was tempted to make something with a Treadstone core but it ain't no Garrett. Garrett does seem hard to source big cores for an enthusiest, plus they are $$$
Was tempted to build a 4.5" thick by 24" vertical cooler but it seems like I would create too much flowpath and maybe wish I had a little longer core since the flowpath might end up being excessive for a 67mm. I just know I have seen my friend find huge bottlenecks on his flowbench with those 3" mishumoto type intercoolers even though they have very few internal fins.
I do know that with a tight finned core you need more flowpath. Seen guys running those huge 6" thick ETS intercoolers but those still don't have much more flowpath then this little intercooler you just built.

I don't do any intercoolers with anything other than Garrett cores, save for a select few, albeit rare, made with some older spearco a-w cores.

Most people dont pay attention to the amount of time the air spends in the core. If you make an intercooler that has "3000hp capabilities" sure it may flow well AND cool well... Until its on a 3000 hp car and it may not choke it, but the air may be passing through the core so fast at high rpm that it doesnt really get cooled off.


Awsome work. Im thinking about building my own inter-cooler. I have the ability to draw end tanks in solid edge and convert it to a sheet metal layout. That makes the layout very easy without having making templates.

That's some badass fancy stuff there! I just do the old paper templates. Works well enough, but it sure would be nice to have access to that kind of capabiltiy.


Aaron - can you tune Electromotive? If so how bout I fly you up here for a day of tuning with Brian and myself. You;ll get to see your block in action.

That sounds like an enjoyable time, but I've never touched one of those units. I primarily stick to AEM or Motec units.


Slick.
You should sell those.

I don't think anyone will buy one when there are "bigger units on ebay for cheaper!" Maybe people have learned though.

[Directconnection]

Aaron, when you tig (or is it properly called Heli-Arc?) aluminum such as this intercooler, do you back purge as you call it? I ask, because I found an aluminum radiator for my car, but I will have to shorten the filler tube/rad cap 1/2" I don't want nasties inside coming free over time... (I wouldn't be welding it... a former co-worker would)

[cordes]

Thanks for sharing Aaron.

Do you ever utilize baffles in the cores to direct the air flow to the later parts of the core? Was that one constructed with the in/out at about the same spot for packaging reasons, or have you not seen a difference in placing them at opposite ends of the cooler?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Most people dont pay attention to the amount of time the air spends in the core. If you make an intercooler that has "3000hp capabilities" sure it may flow well AND cool well... Until its on a 3000 hp car and it may not choke it, but the air may be passing through the core so fast at high rpm that it doesnt really get cooled off.

I'm trying to get my head around what you're saying here: Are you saying that a bigger core is the better to allow the air to slow down and cool off but still flow well enough to support your goals?

[Ondonti]

When you run a "more tubes, less length" intercooler and rely on air slowing down as it goes through the greater number of tubes, it works great at a lower HP number. At a high HP number you don't have a restriction but now the air is moving quite fast and while its making more power then a long intercooler with half the flowpath, its not going to cool well. It works well as long as you are nowhere near the limit of the flowpath. I guess you need both the flowpath AND the cooling capacity required for your turbo outlet temps. If you run that super huge intercooler at half capacity, then you will not be as happy as the version with less cooling capacity or just an overall smaller intercooler. Low boost setups don't put as much heat into the charge so they can get away with a different intercooler style too. Then I have heard E85 guys sometimes ditching their cooler.

[8valves]

I have only backpurged on aluminum in rare cases on old used parts to try to help. Other than that with aluminum it shouldn't be necessary. Also on my intercoolers i weld the inside ofnthe seams and the outisde, where possible. You could also call it GTAW welding. But TIG is easier.

Cordes, simply for packaging and appeaeance. I like the added symmetry with the mirrored tanks. And no, ive never done routing baffles inside a core.

Its tough to describe about the idea behind the core. I tjink Ondonti is getting what im trying to say. You need to find a compromise between flow and restriction. I like to use Garrett cores because i have had great luck with them doing the hard work of the design process on the core, then i just have to make a nice directional end tank.

---------- Post added at 07:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 AM ----------

As promised IC is mounted and charge and intake plumbing tacked up. Should be finish welded and up and running later tonight if things go well.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21201749.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21201818.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21214115.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21214125.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21214157.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-21214417.jpg

[iTurbo]

Wow, very nice!:thumb:

[Force Fed Mopar]

So essentially choosing a cooler is simply finding the right compromise between flow and cooling, correct? I think that is easy enough for us all to grasp. What isn't easy for most, is how do you tell how much compromise there is? Tube size, tube spacing, length, etc, we know they are factors, but how do you tell how much of a factor each one is?

Maybe we need a new thread to discuss :) Started one here:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?62829-Intercoolers-How-to-choose-the-right-one&p=869747#post869747

[Vigo]

So between your header and this intercooler im figuring the guy is going for a larger than stock turbo as well. What turbo is on this van? I assume it's something relatively mild since it still has a 1pc on it.

[8valves]

So between your header and this intercooler im figuring the guy is going for a larger than stock turbo as well. What turbo is on this van? I assume it's something relatively mild since it still has a 1pc on it.

Yup, pretty mild combo to just be fun and useable. It has the header and turbo (Mopar + unit) from the Daytona.

It was on a Mitsu and +40's with a RRR and AFPR, and a G valve boost control, and a cut out raiser bleeder. I got rid of all that and did a 3bar calibration and boost control, the header/turbo, the IC, and a downpipe without a section of 2 1/4" in it like the old one had. And a fuel pump/filter, etc.

It made 176whp/261 WTQ at 18 psi when it came in. Dyno to follow on how the changes helped out. I'm hoping for 260WHP/330 TQ. It's a factory 5 speed van too, and minty clean. :)

I think the next round of mods will be a modified intake manifold and a 3" swingvalve. And a clutch, lol. After that maybe spray it and outrun Simon's mega-fancy race van, haha! :p

[turbovanman²]

Yup, pretty mild combo to just be fun and useable. It has the header and turbo (Mopar + unit) from the Daytona.

It was on a Mitsu and +40's with a RRR and AFPR, and a G valve boost control, and a cut out raiser bleeder. I got rid of all that and did a 3bar calibration and boost control, the header/turbo, the IC, and a downpipe without a section of 2 1/4" in it like the old one had. And a fuel pump/filter, etc.

It made 176whp/261 WTQ at 18 psi when it came in. Dyno to follow on how the changes helped out. I'm hoping for 260WHP/330 TQ. It's a factory 5 speed van too, and minty clean. :)

I think the next round of mods will be a modified intake manifold and a 3" swingvalve. And a clutch, lol. After that maybe spray it and outrun Simon's mega-fancy race van, haha! :p

Very cool, does the A/C work? I liked where you put the IC, barring of course the A/C is still functional, :eyebrows:

Why does everyone pick on my van, :mecry:

I wouldn't call it a mega-fancy race van but a mega-heavy daily driver, kid/dog/wife/crap hauler and sometimes race van, ;)

[8valves]

Compared to this thing your cammed, GT35R, built auto, built motor, custom intake, Lotus headed van is indeed mega fancy compared to this thing, haha! ;)

And yes, the AC is fully functional, hence the purpose of this particular IC setup.

[turbovanman²]

Compared to this thing your cammed, GT35R, built auto, built motor, custom intake, Lotus headed van is indeed mega fancy compared to this thing, haha! ;)

And yes, the AC is fully functional, hence the purpose of this particular IC setup.

Not cammed anymore, ;)

Cool, literally. Wasn't sure it was still functional, everyone removes it. Got a pic of the A/C side?

[fishcleaner]

Great post, how long have you been welding? the welds look amazing.

[mcsvt]

Looks great Aaron, that would be really nice to have in my van. Maybe when I get the motor refreshed after winter I can figure out a similar setup.

[8valves]

Thanks, about 4 years or so daily, with a year of learning/basics prior to that.

Van is done and ready to dyno, but the tuned ECU has a bad internal voltage regulator so it will have to wait a bit. I will put up the finished pictures after i shower and theyve uploaded.

I think it turned out very nicely. It appears small through the grill, but should support more power than it will ever need to.

[cordes]

Thanks for the update Aaron. I appreciate your responses on here. It's a real learning experience.

[8valves]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-22202735.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-22202818.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-22202843.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-22203709.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-11-22221840.jpg

And here are some other SS welding pieces ive fabbed and done recently that tend to be a little more complex.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-01-30122741.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-05-10124528.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/2011-05-20165116.jpg

[Force Fed Mopar]

I would so paint that intercooler black :)

[Vigo]

It was on a Mitsu and +40's with a RRR and AFPR, and a G valve boost control, and a cut out raiser bleeder.

It made 176whp/261 WTQ at 18 psi when it came in

Wow. Having you lend some guidance and mechanical skill to that van build is probably the best thing that could have happened!

Im interested to see what it does on the dyno. I think you'll be pretty close considering this is overall a better setup (sounds like) than the daytona and that thing was pretty much there, aside from the 2.2/2.5 torque difference. Although, did your daytona have a stock 1pc? If not i could see that having some effect.


I would so paint that intercooler black
I agree.

[turbovanman²]

Mad skillz Aaron, wish I could weld like that.

Looks really good, :thumb: Pretty funny, mine looks the same thru the grill but mines on the other side, :lol:


I would so paint that intercooler black :)

I would so not, lol.

[Ondonti]

F you on that twins setup Aaron, that just looks like too much fun. Is it running yet?

[8valves]

I would so paint that intercooler black :)

The customer requested that it stay visible.


Wow. Having you lend some guidance and mechanical skill to that van build is probably the best thing that could have happened!

Im interested to see what it does on the dyno. I think you'll be pretty close considering this is overall a better setup (sounds like) than the daytona and that thing was pretty much there, aside from the 2.2/2.5 torque difference. Although, did your daytona have a stock 1pc? If not i could see that having some effect.


I agree.

That's actually the intake off of the daytona, and yes it is stock. I couldn't do all of this work and put the nasty dirty silver one piece back on.


F you on that twins setup Aaron, that just looks like too much fun. Is it running yet?

Sure is. Wait, the van or that system i put a pic of up? Either way yes, they both are running, haha. That system was a bit stressful actually. Got a little over zealous with the visual idea that ended up being very difficult to execute, but in the end it was a challenging experience... Which i guess ultimately makes it fun AFTER it's done.

[Mopar318]

What are those mini cylinders after the turbine outlet?

[8valves]

Mufflers.

[2.216VTurbo]

Stellar work as always Aaron. Sheesh, I still remember when you were that semi-talented 17 year old kid in trade school making 407HP in a Charger:thumb: Always a treat when you show your current projects:clap: That twin set up for an R8 or a Prancing Bull or?

[8valves]

Stellar work as always Aaron. Sheesh, I still remember when you were that semi-talented 17 year old kid in trade school making 407HP in a Charger:thumb: Always a treat when you show your current projects:clap: That twin set up for an R8 or a Prancing Bull or?

Ha! I figured that car dissapeared from most people's memories! Thanks much Alan, i always keep trying to progress.

Thats actually for a prancing horse. ;-) 458 Italia TT.

[turbovanman²]

Ha! I figured that car dissapeared from most people's memories! Thanks much Alan, i always keep trying to progress.

Thats actually for a prancing horse. ;-) 458 Italia TT.

No, we never forget.

[Reeves]

Wow!! Cool stuff! Makes me want to go work on my van.....hurt piston :( Miss it...

[Vigo]

If it hadnt been on 93 i would have forgotten.. honestly. lol

[GLHNSLHT2]

photo bucket pics aren't showing up :(

[8valves]

Ah ----, I think I moved the links. I will have to redo it, damn. Sorry.

[Directconnection]

Trying to revive this thread and hope this doesn't qualify for hijacking.

Aaron, I currently have the Spearco same-side unit TU/FWD has been selling for some time. (1060 cfm?) I have a 2.2 T-III with a 6262 that will run about 20-22psi max on the street, and wish to push it to 30-34 on a few occasions if I get all my eggs in that one basket. I have been looking at the Treadstone coolers and really like their -vertical- designs similar to the Spearco I have. The Spearco's core is 6"x18" and Treadstone offers a core of 6"x25" *or* 9"x25". I'd really like to have a Garrett core, but the Treadstone is half the price. Does the Treadstone core quality really reflect their prices, or are they really that good? (or Garrett you pay for the name?)

Thanx for your input!

[8valves]

Trying to revive this thread and hope this doesn't qualify for hijacking.

Aaron, I currently have the Spearco same-side unit TU/FWD has been selling for some time. (1060 cfm?) I have a 2.2 T-III with a 6262 that will run about 20-22psi max on the street, and wish to push it to 30-34 on a few occasions if I get all my eggs in that one basket. I have been looking at the Treadstone coolers and really like their -vertical- designs similar to the Spearco I have. The Spearco's core is 6"x18" and Treadstone offers a core of 6"x25" *or* 9"x25". I'd really like to have a Garrett core, but the Treadstone is half the price. Does the Treadstone core quality really reflect their prices, or are they really that good? (or Garrett you pay for the name?)

Thanx for your input!

I personally think that Garrett cores are really that good, but then again I'm someone who doesn't complain about saving up to buy a GT series DBB turbo either. I just value good quality parts like that.

I have no experience with the Treadstone products, so I can't really say if the unit would or wouldn't hamper you from a technical standpoint.

The only real advice, and take it for what it's worth, is can you use the money you saved on the IC and put it towards something else on the car equally important? The money spent to me is sometimes peace of mind that you won't run into an issue with it. I guess that's why I'm not the best gambling kind of guy. ;)

[8valves]

I moved my links so here are the pictures again, with final dyno results.

The van came in with a mitsu and a stock intercooler setup with raised boost.

I changed it to my EQ header from my Daytona, a .63 turbine housing Mopar + turbo with a 2.25" SV, and this custom intercooler setup, with a new calibration to get rid of the RRR, map bleeder, and G valve setup. The results were between 50-60 WHP and TQ across the board at the same target 20 psi.

Granted the Mitsu setup wouldn't hold boost up high like this will now, but the results are pretty good. It's fun to drive!

Power Gain
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/PowerGainGraph.jpg

Torque Gain
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/TorqueGainGraph.jpg


http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-16154921.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-16171255.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-16122701.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-16172436.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-17130648.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-17131508.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-17130706.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-21201818.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-21201749.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-21214115.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-21214125.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-22202818.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-22202735.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/Eight_Valves/Fabricated%20Pieces/Andy%20Mckee%20TurboVan/2011-11-22203709.jpg

[cordes]

That's a pretty big gain for sure. How much of it do you think came from the tuning vs. the hardware? Any way to guesstimate that?

[8valves]

Hard to say. I'm not thinking a great deal, simply because the van was pretty strong as it was. Funny though, as the cam was off a tooth retarded! I don't think it would've picked up a lick of power straight up, but it surely would've died a lot sooner. For a mitsu 2.5 it revved waaay too easily, which made sense once the new stuff went on and the power was down.

It took some investigating but got it figured out. To be honest, it made the mitsu combo much better than they usually are, as the peaks were settled down and it carried power much farther than most.

The AFR on the old setup, while not my preferred method of fuel mods, was pretty close to where they were left on the calibration. There's a bit more timing in it now up top to help carry the powerband with the cam straight up.

[cordes]

Wow, thanks for the info.