What the heck is that noise?

[BlueBaron]

2002 Neon, 2.0L Auto.

The noise, is a rubbing sound. Here is some info I've gathered:

Sound is at the front. Passenger side I think.
No visible marks like a tire rubbing or such.
Sounds like it changes with the speed of the car.
It's there when the car travels down on it's suspension, but generally under acceleration. Mild sound when coasting in gear. I don't think I hear it at all coasting in neutral. I did hear it once when stopped at a red light, in gear but not moving. It might be more obvious or louder when turning to the right.

Quiets down when the car warms up. But more interesting, it also depends on outside temp as well. It's loud in Winter temps. Barely there in the hot summer temp.

Wheel bearing??

[shadow88]

Rubbing sound? Tough one.... Maybe a loose wheel? Longshot guess, your blower motor is dying? Mine squeaked to a death.

[turbovanman²]

If it does it stopped, its not a wheel bearing or diff bearing, axle. It could be transmission pump, or maybe a planetary has let go.

[BlueBaron]

Today the noise was nice enough to show up at first idle. I quickly opened the hood to find the belt side of the engine is vibrating against the frame rail. It's sitting too close to it.

Anyone know what these motor mounts look like? The engine doesn't have a mean tilt or anything. I've seen that when my LeBaron needed a mount.

[turbovanman²]

Front is similiar to our TM's, so check to see if its hammered out or the bracket is bent. The trans mount doesn't move, its like the front mount so again, see if its hammered out. Passenger mount can move a bit but most likely the other 2 are shot, or possibly the car is bent/tweaked.

[BlueBaron]

Well the car isn't tweaked. I bought it new. The noise is from the passenger side. If I push down or pull up a bit at the upper torque mount, the sound goes away. ie, it isn't hitting the frame.

[turbovanman²]

Probably just needs a mount.

[RoadWarrior222]

Use the official fix...

Jack the motor up and hammer slivers of wood in there.

[Big_P]

The mounts should be very cheap.

[RoadWarrior222]

Or like Mr Pedantic says, jack it up and bung a new mount in, waste of precious couch change if you ask me, could get a whopper meal for what it's likely to cost.... but if you wanna waste a whole $10 on it, that's fine by me, it's not like your axles will go bad for a year or two...


;-)

[Aries_Turbo]

it doesnt have a front mount simon, its a 2002. 2000+ are like the SRT mounts.

it has a pivot mount that attaches the motor to the frame rail and then it has an upper and lower pass side mount to control movement.

probably a worn out mount. check for play and see if the bolts are all tight.

Brian

[RoadWarrior222]

riiiiiiight. <<< That was a dawn of understanding riiiiiiight, not a sarcastic riiiiiiight, which is like:- riiiiiiight

Yah, inserts for those may not be around $10.

[BlueBaron]

I got a new mount from Rock Auto. Today I thumbed through my FSM and opened the hood.
Who's the genius that decided to make it so I need to drop the entire drivetrain out of the car to change this thing?? :mad:

[RoadWarrior222]

annnnd that's why I'm not so keen on Neons :D

[BlueBaron]

Well, talking with a Chrysler tech... We decided it really can't be the engine mount. The engine looks straight, and the upper isolator isn't being distorted (like it would if it needed to hold the engine). And the big thing, is that the noise almost goes away when the engine is warm.

If I push on the passenger side of the engine, the noise goes away. I'm confused.

Anyone want to buy a Neon mount? lol

[RoadWarrior222]

It could be transmission pump,

I'm starting to suspect this... loose on shaft, worn, or bushings between it and clutch pack on input shaft worn or something. Causes, high mileage, bad tranny fluid, lack of lube pressure (blockage etc) contaminants (grit metal etc)

However, check flex plate and TC bolts first.

See if you can make it do it by angling the car without directly pushing on motor, jack up passenger side, see if it knocks louder, jack up drivers, see if it goes quiet.

[BlueBaron]

Well, I can tell you it doesn't get louder or quieter when I go around a sharp corner.
It does get quieter when the engine isn't under load. When I coast toward a stop sign for instance.

[contraption22]

Timing belt rubbing a cover?

[BlueBaron]

Well here's a clip I took today. Some info in the description.
http://youtu.be/zhRMRm_Lt3w

I just wedged the phone somewhere so you could see my hand pushing. I over acted the pushing to stand out. Looks like I'm putting more than the 20 lbs of force needed.
I might try another recording on the side the noise is at, not caring about picture, just to catch the sound. It's not as loud being recorded from next to the battery.

[shadow88]

I remember a few doing this when I was at the dealership.

What you're pushing on is technically called a strut. The dogbone shaped thing. The mount, as you found out, is lower, sunk into the frame and difficult, but not impossible to change with the engine in the car.

I've had a couple where the strut (dogbone) is making contact with the body and required a little bashing to clear the body out of the way. Try it with the strut removed. The weight is supported by the mount.

[BlueBaron]

It's the mount !!

Today I pulled the guard from over the belts and disconnected both struts. The engine was free to pivot on the mounts. I could clearly see nothing was touching the frame rail but through the mount.
With the engine running, I pushed down on the engine near the oil cap. The noise was still there. And with one hand on the frame, you could feel the vibrations being transferred from the engine.

The mount seems to be holding the engine properly. One suggestion I heard, is the rubber of the mount might be hard from age. (10 years) Thoughts?

Is it worth changing the mount? If so, what's the method for doing it without pulling the drivetrain?

[shackwrrr]

Spray silicone spray in the mount while making the noise and see if it goes away. Could be a crack in the rubber that with the engine weight you can't see.

With the front mount a bobble removed put a jack under the oil pan with a board, remove the trans mount long bolt then let the engine down as far as it will go then remove the three small bolts. The whole mount should come out then.

[shadow88]

It's the mount !!

Today I pulled the guard from over the belts and disconnected both struts. The engine was free to pivot on the mounts. I could clearly see nothing was touching the frame rail but through the mount.
With the engine running, I pushed down on the engine near the oil cap. The noise was still there. And with one hand on the frame, you could feel the vibrations being transferred from the engine.

The mount seems to be holding the engine properly. One suggestion I heard, is the rubber of the mount might be hard from age. (10 years) Thoughts?

Is it worth changing the mount? If so, what's the method for doing it without pulling the drivetrain?

If you have the FSM from post 13, you'll have the service procedures in there.

[shackwrrr]

Spray silicone spray in the mount while making the noise and see if it goes away. Could be a crack in the rubber that with the engine weight you can't see.

With the front mount a bobble removed put a jack under the oil pan with a board, remove the trans mount long bolt then let the engine down as far as it will go then remove the three small bolts. The whole mount should come out then.

This probably wont work, forgot it was a neon

[RoadWarrior222]

Don't think of it as pulling the drivetrain, think of it as just letting it out for some fresh air.