Mulitiple code problems

[Reb258]

I just brought home day before yesterday an 85 Daytona that I bought. Car is excellent condition. Body is great interior is great, engine not so good. The engine 2.2 turbo is all stock, no modifications. I drove it home 210 miles and it got 24 mpg but it ran all the way on limp mode. Very rough, misses, idle feels like it will stall at any minute, no power so on and so on. So today I got to mess with it and I ran the codes. I got 13 - 21 -23 - 24 - 51 - 52. I took it to a mechanic friend and he put his scanner on it and read multiple codes as well. Some of the readings were all over the place. He said that anything over two or three max is almost always a computer problem. So I would like some input from you guys on this matter. I was thinking about upgrading the computer anyway but I would like to know if this is really the problem. Also if I replace the logic module do you have to replace the power module or not. I can tear a 340 apart and put it back together with my eyes closed but I am new to 2.2 turbo stuff. Thanks for any advise you can give.


http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTc2WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqR,!mIE6B1fBU5OBOp,ub)NJ!~~60_3.JPG

[Murphy]

fault code info is on this site
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/

read and learn everything in the turbo database, some of the info is a bit outdated, but still good to know
http://thedodgegarage.com/

the knowledge center here is good too

to answer your question, you can change out the computer without changing the power module. I think something is wrong with your computer as you don't have code 55(end of codes). If you want, I think I have a few 86 computers here, a stock and an MP stage 1.

I saw that car for sale, I'm glad your becoming a member of the community here!

[Reb258]

Thanks for the welcome. I did get a 55 code at the end sorry didnt list it. Let me do some reading and I may get to you with the MP1.

[cordes]

You probably just have that many problems. I've seen that many times. Welcome to the site.

[Reb258]

Thanks cordes for the welcome. If your right I guess I have some work to do. The car is pretty sweet if I can get the bugs worked out.

[86tona]

If I may, I would like to suggest that you consider checking connections before replacing parts. Bob Lincoln and I assembled a 'How-to' set of articles which we published on another site. But the bottom line here is that in many cases it's connections rather than the actual part which causes codes.

Code 13 for example indicates that the signal from the MAP sensor to the ECU isn't changing. This could be caused by a bad vacuum hose or a bad connection. In the case of the '85 the MAP is attached to the computer and the vacuum line is suspect.

Code 21, 51 and 52..... this is very strange since ...

Code 21 indicates Oxygen sensor (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/eek/o2.html) reporting too lean or too rich after 2 – 12 minutes with temp over 170° and RPM above 1500

Code 52 indicates for '85 - 1985+: code 51=running too lean, code 52=running too rich

You found both a 51 and a 52. I can't see how you can be both rich and lean and to combine all these into one set of reported codes points me to a connection/harness issue. The other codes 23 and 24 (coolant temp/air charge and TPS) also have harness wires with these others.

There is a harness behind the VC which over time can get brittle and can have wires touch each other and ground. Perhaps it's time to investigate this harness as well as all of them in the engine compartment. Check every connection to insure that they are good and making good connection. If any wires are missing insulation and are shorting to ground or to another wire these should be fixed first. Then clear the codes and check for codes. If any more show up after the harness and connector 'repairs' then focus on these areas.

I have an '86 standard Daytona which I bought nearly 26 years ago. I've had issues with connections but also with the pins at the computer in the kick panel on the passanger side of the car. The little spring clips which make connection to the pins on the computer were broken off and were making very intermitant connections.

[turbovanman²]

Code 13 will make it run like crap, so I would redo ALL your vacuum lines, clear the codes. IF the 13 comes back, bypass baro solenoid, if code 13 comes back, replace the map. I would bet your oxygen sensor is bunk, especially if its original, so that won't hurt. It can be hard to get out, a torch and patience is needed. Use only OE or NTK, the other brands don't same to work very well.

[Reb258]

Hey thanks for the wisdom tona and TVM. When I looked at it again today I noticed one big problem. 3 of the vac hoses are run into a 3 way connector and right next to it are 3 hoses into a 3-way also. I am curious as to why someone would do this. OK so I am buying nothing right now except some vacuum hose and some wire. Im going to order a vac block and redo the lines first while I am in there I will check the wiring. Will keep you posted. Thanks for the start guys.

[turbovanman²]

Its pretty common to mess up the vacuum lines, the factory way is a joke.

I bet after you redo the lines, you'll find most of your problems are gone.

[86tona]

I took one look at the standard setup and decided that not only was it ugly but it was is easily breakable. I fabricated some metal lines to route my vacuum from the source to the solenoids. My engine isn't stock and uses the '88 intake but here's a picture of the engine (before I finished). Also part of this gallery are the other photos of the build. If there's an idea which I implemented go for it.

http://www.allpar.com/gallery3/index.php/Daytona/G1/album36/album57/DSCN0976

If you have any questions just holler.

[Reb258]

Tona looks great. I want to clean mine up, hope it turns out as good looking and functional as yours. OK so I found several issues.
1. The EGR was hooked directly into the manifold pressure scource at the manifold. Not good.
2. The throttle body hose was crushed and melted.
3. The waste gate hose ran thru the orifice and then was plugged into a 3-way connector that was tied into the bar sensor hose and purge solenoid.
4. Wastegate soleniod is drawing no vacuum even though there is vacuum going to it. Turbo is not working...see below.
Anyway worked thru all this and things improved allot. Found a wiring issue with what I believe is the charge air sensor. The wire insulation was worn and they had tape on them but had slid down the wire and they were in contact. Got to replacee that. So the good news is all the codes are gone. 12-55 .. clean. Car is running much better but still not great. Idle is about 1800 rpm, still stuimbles from stop. I now have some other issues.
1. Turbo is not functioning. The wastegate rod was not connected. Having a hard time figuring out how it hooks up, a pin or clip or what? Wired it together but got no boost at all driving dow nthe road.
2. Checked plugs and I have never seen a spark plug burn red but 2 of the plugs were red. Thoughts? I am going ot replace them but want to know if there is an issue here that may not involve the above.

Hey you guys are great I do appreciate the help. Any ideas?

[turbovanman²]

There is a clip that holds the rod on the turbo, I like the GM carb linkage clip, others have different idea's. The rod has some preload so it can take a bit of muscle to hook it on the SV.

Hook the wastegate to manifold vacuum and see what happens, you should get 4-5 psi of boost. I also prefer MBC's, work better than the factory setup, :eyebrows:

If you have a high idle, you have a vacuum leak or the idle motor is bad/computer, check the throttle blade, you can adjust the minimum idle with a torx screw, someone could have messed with it to make it idle, I like to back it off, then manually move the throttle until it stops binding/catching. You'll understand what I mean if you mess with it.

[cordes]

There is a clip that holds the rod on the turbo, I like the GM carb linkage clip, others have different idea's. The rod has some preload so it can take a bit of muscle to hook it on the SV.

Hook the wastegate to manifold vacuum and see what happens, you should get 4-5 psi of boost. I also prefer MBC's, work better than the factory setup, :eyebrows:

If you have a high idle, you have a vacuum leak or the idle motor is bad/computer, check the throttle blade, you can adjust the minimum idle with a torx screw, someone could have messed with it to make it idle, I like to back it off, then manually move the throttle until it stops binding/catching. You'll understand what I mean if you mess with it.

Great advice on the idle problem. Here is how to adjust the base idle.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/content.php?206-Base-Idle-Adjustment

[86tona]

Here's an article about the turbo rebuild on my Turbo Z.

http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/budget-turbo-rebuild.html

There is a good picture of the waste gate actuating rod and where it clips in place. I found some nice clips at Advance which have a lock. I can't find a picture just now but it's a round clip with a 'keyway' in the middle which locks the rod on the pin and then there's a lock over the keyway. This thing will NOT come off unless you take it off or it rusts away.