Subliminal
11-04-2011, 08:34 AM
So, about a year ago I converted my truck from the auto w/ overdrive A518 to the 5 speed Getrag 360. The transmission/transfer case/etc all came from a plow truck, and there was some slop in the shifting as well as a whole lot of leaking out of both tranny and transfer case.
At the same time I did the swap, I also had the flywheel turned and installed a new (OEM) 13" Sachs clutch kit.
Well, after the new parts went in, I had...issues. Not drivability issues so much as just annoyances. If the engine was revved up, it would shake like crazy. So, I pulled the tranny again and took the flywheel and pressure plate in to be rebalanced. They both checked out, so I put it all back together. Same deal, so I called the company I purchased the clutch from and they had Sachs drop-ship me a new setup.
Well, that cured the shake, but the balance issue was definitely still there, as instead of shaking, it just made what I can only describe as an 'out of balance noise'.
Anyway, this went on for a year. I usually granny shifted and just avoided it by keeping the RPMs low. The Cummins is good like that, it likes it low.
Well, fast forward to last week. I made a little extra at work, so I decided to fix my issues.
I called a guy named Jim in Indiana who has a good rep rebuilding these old trans. I talked to him about swapping to the NV4500, and about the ins and outs of both the Getrag and the NV4500. Upon his recommendation (as someone who has driven and built both transmissions for years), I decided to purchase a rebuilt Getrag. $1100. On telling him about my noise/shake, he said he'd recommend going to a South Bend clutch/flywheel setup. He said that that out of balance was always an issue with the old setup (the pressure plate was cast and weighed in at probably 75 lbs). The flywheel originally had a brass bushing in it, and the SB setup has a ball bearing in the middle.
So, I took that advice, too, and spend $750 on a new flywheel/clutch/pressure plate/TOB setup.
Finally, my transfer case is the 'bulletproof' NP205. Very basic, and known in most 4x4 worlds as the top of food chain. I talked to him and he said he got $700 for a rebuilt one. I looked around and found a write-up on rebuilding it, and he agreed that it wasn't exactly 'rocket science' and sold me a reseal and rebuild kit for $200.
So, $1100+$750+$200+$150(shipping) and I'm golden. Couple this with new U-Joints from and rear and a newly rebuilt driveshaft, and pretty much everything from engine to rear will be brand new.
So, I tore into it last week. I got everything out from under the truck in no time. I've done the deed about 4 times now, so I basically take a sleeping pill, crawl under the truck, and when I wake up, it's apart. ;)
That night, my cousin Doug came over and we tore into the 205. The directions were great, and the rebuild went fairly smooth. Only hickup was that I busted off one of the spring retaining bolts that hold down the ball bearing to give the shift rails the feel of 'going into gear'. But I found a bolt the right size, cut it, notched it for a standard screwdriver, and drilled out the hole for the spring. Done.
Then I installed the new flywheel and clutch setup, coupled the transmission to the transfer case, put it on the handy-dandy quad jack and rolled it under the truck...
---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------
...this is where things went a bit south on me. Like I said, I've done this before. The hardest part is getting everything lined up properly. The input shaft has to go thru the throw out bearing, then the splines need to go thru the clutch plate and finally the tip needs to go through the bearing in the middle of the flywheel.
Well, that first day I was alone and tried for about 6 hours to get everything lined up and thru. I could get it all but the last 3/4 of an inch. Basically, I had the input shaft butting up against the flywheel bearing, but the TOB was in the right place, the splines were thru the clutch plate, and the tranny bolts were in the right spot.
I crawled out from under the truck a defeated man.
The next day I had some help, and we took the transfer case off and put a nice piece of plywood underneath for the jack to roll. Well, it would roll nice and easy, and we got it back to the same spot and no matter how we fenangled the jack, it would just thump up against the flywheel. Another few hours of this and we crawled out, defeated once again.
So, I posted on a Cummins forum and a few guys mentioned hooking up the clutch and having someone press it while I pushed the tranny. Wouldn't you know I had it lined up so well that as soon as the clutch was depressed, the thing just moved right into place? Sweetness!
After that, it was just a matter of attaching the bolts to the bellhousing, attaching the crossmember, and moving the TC up into place.
This afternoon I need to install the shifter and the driveshafts and then take her for a spin and see how it all works.
Good times, I tell you. Goes to show: Even when you've done a job 3 or 4 times, there's still something to be learned. :)
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------
Some pictures:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hba9JLIt2FY/Tq3J24yIbgI/AAAAAAAAKTE/y7Z8T2eSyYw/s800/IMG_20111028_153239.jpg
Old tranny and new one...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8PW5vF9qtVM/Tq3JsxbQtZI/AAAAAAAAKS8/iJaqxspZTYc/s640/IMG_20111030_140431.jpg
New setup, reassembled and ready to roll under the truck (new driveshaft in the background)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L2rpPu1cyNs/Tq3Jk0ULBPI/AAAAAAAAKS0/Yl-yvtnlNrU/s800/IMG_20111030_140452.jpg
...alternate view (crossmember in background)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NHFU-UDov58/Tq63W1XrBEI/AAAAAAAAKTQ/xxmzI75UBaM/s800/IMG_20111031_105539.jpg
SB clutch setup on top, OEM on bottom
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FfupAN-8ayk/TrPWJU4--BI/AAAAAAAAKUA/G3uW1FcCk8M/s800/IMG_20111031_110058.jpg
...other side of clutch setup.
At the same time I did the swap, I also had the flywheel turned and installed a new (OEM) 13" Sachs clutch kit.
Well, after the new parts went in, I had...issues. Not drivability issues so much as just annoyances. If the engine was revved up, it would shake like crazy. So, I pulled the tranny again and took the flywheel and pressure plate in to be rebalanced. They both checked out, so I put it all back together. Same deal, so I called the company I purchased the clutch from and they had Sachs drop-ship me a new setup.
Well, that cured the shake, but the balance issue was definitely still there, as instead of shaking, it just made what I can only describe as an 'out of balance noise'.
Anyway, this went on for a year. I usually granny shifted and just avoided it by keeping the RPMs low. The Cummins is good like that, it likes it low.
Well, fast forward to last week. I made a little extra at work, so I decided to fix my issues.
I called a guy named Jim in Indiana who has a good rep rebuilding these old trans. I talked to him about swapping to the NV4500, and about the ins and outs of both the Getrag and the NV4500. Upon his recommendation (as someone who has driven and built both transmissions for years), I decided to purchase a rebuilt Getrag. $1100. On telling him about my noise/shake, he said he'd recommend going to a South Bend clutch/flywheel setup. He said that that out of balance was always an issue with the old setup (the pressure plate was cast and weighed in at probably 75 lbs). The flywheel originally had a brass bushing in it, and the SB setup has a ball bearing in the middle.
So, I took that advice, too, and spend $750 on a new flywheel/clutch/pressure plate/TOB setup.
Finally, my transfer case is the 'bulletproof' NP205. Very basic, and known in most 4x4 worlds as the top of food chain. I talked to him and he said he got $700 for a rebuilt one. I looked around and found a write-up on rebuilding it, and he agreed that it wasn't exactly 'rocket science' and sold me a reseal and rebuild kit for $200.
So, $1100+$750+$200+$150(shipping) and I'm golden. Couple this with new U-Joints from and rear and a newly rebuilt driveshaft, and pretty much everything from engine to rear will be brand new.
So, I tore into it last week. I got everything out from under the truck in no time. I've done the deed about 4 times now, so I basically take a sleeping pill, crawl under the truck, and when I wake up, it's apart. ;)
That night, my cousin Doug came over and we tore into the 205. The directions were great, and the rebuild went fairly smooth. Only hickup was that I busted off one of the spring retaining bolts that hold down the ball bearing to give the shift rails the feel of 'going into gear'. But I found a bolt the right size, cut it, notched it for a standard screwdriver, and drilled out the hole for the spring. Done.
Then I installed the new flywheel and clutch setup, coupled the transmission to the transfer case, put it on the handy-dandy quad jack and rolled it under the truck...
---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------
...this is where things went a bit south on me. Like I said, I've done this before. The hardest part is getting everything lined up properly. The input shaft has to go thru the throw out bearing, then the splines need to go thru the clutch plate and finally the tip needs to go through the bearing in the middle of the flywheel.
Well, that first day I was alone and tried for about 6 hours to get everything lined up and thru. I could get it all but the last 3/4 of an inch. Basically, I had the input shaft butting up against the flywheel bearing, but the TOB was in the right place, the splines were thru the clutch plate, and the tranny bolts were in the right spot.
I crawled out from under the truck a defeated man.
The next day I had some help, and we took the transfer case off and put a nice piece of plywood underneath for the jack to roll. Well, it would roll nice and easy, and we got it back to the same spot and no matter how we fenangled the jack, it would just thump up against the flywheel. Another few hours of this and we crawled out, defeated once again.
So, I posted on a Cummins forum and a few guys mentioned hooking up the clutch and having someone press it while I pushed the tranny. Wouldn't you know I had it lined up so well that as soon as the clutch was depressed, the thing just moved right into place? Sweetness!
After that, it was just a matter of attaching the bolts to the bellhousing, attaching the crossmember, and moving the TC up into place.
This afternoon I need to install the shifter and the driveshafts and then take her for a spin and see how it all works.
Good times, I tell you. Goes to show: Even when you've done a job 3 or 4 times, there's still something to be learned. :)
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------
Some pictures:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hba9JLIt2FY/Tq3J24yIbgI/AAAAAAAAKTE/y7Z8T2eSyYw/s800/IMG_20111028_153239.jpg
Old tranny and new one...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8PW5vF9qtVM/Tq3JsxbQtZI/AAAAAAAAKS8/iJaqxspZTYc/s640/IMG_20111030_140431.jpg
New setup, reassembled and ready to roll under the truck (new driveshaft in the background)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L2rpPu1cyNs/Tq3Jk0ULBPI/AAAAAAAAKS0/Yl-yvtnlNrU/s800/IMG_20111030_140452.jpg
...alternate view (crossmember in background)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NHFU-UDov58/Tq63W1XrBEI/AAAAAAAAKTQ/xxmzI75UBaM/s800/IMG_20111031_105539.jpg
SB clutch setup on top, OEM on bottom
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FfupAN-8ayk/TrPWJU4--BI/AAAAAAAAKUA/G3uW1FcCk8M/s800/IMG_20111031_110058.jpg
...other side of clutch setup.