Went to the track tonight. Slower then I wanted but still fun

[87turbodance]

Here is my best run of the night tonight:

r/t .747
60' 2.4240
330' 6.8410
594' 9.8429
1/8ET 10.51
1/8 MPH 67.07
1/4ET 16.3019
1/4 MPH 83.79

1989 Spirit ES with carpet and headliner removed.
'89 3.0 short block with '00 Caravan heads, Diamente cams. Plenum divider removed and 52mm TB. Megasquirt literally tuned by the seat of my pants because I don't have a wideband.
Stock original suspension rubber and shitty after market rubber engine mounts. Bad inner joint on re-man passenger axle. A543 3.50 FD . I went through the traps in 3rd around 7000 rpm.
My first trip to the track in my Spirit ever. Wheel hopped through 2nd. 200lb driver and 120lb passenger.

[cordes]

Wow, that's great. IIRC I managed a best of 16.3 in my Daytona at SDAC a couple of years ago. 89' TII with a MP cal in it. Keep up the good work.

[Sundance 6g72]

we got a best of 15.1 today.. comparing both cars, that not bad considering how much is done to the shadow. Anyways, good work. ill try and get you a better tune once i have my car back on MS. our cars are very similar!

[turbovanman²]

Not bad at all considering your first time at the track.

[87turbodance]

we got a best of 15.1 today.. comparing both cars, that not bad considering how much is done to the shadow. Anyways, good work. ill try and get you a better tune once i have my car back on MS. our cars are very similar!

I'm going to have to add a LC1 to my Christmas list I think.

I really just want add an Eaton M90 Harv style. 8psi from a roots blower should get me in the 14s.

[Ondonti]

Should I think it strange that people running MS are running slower?

[Sundance 6g72]

yes :(

[Shadow24]

14.308 @ 94.74 = slow? :D

87 - I'd DEFINITELY get an LC-1. Without proper A/F feedback, your tune is probably not as accurate as it could/should be robbing you of power. Once i got my tune dialed in somewhat and the nut behind the wheel tightened, I was mid to low 14's fairly consistently in a full interior P-body. I'd venture a guess that you are ritch in the upper RPMs robbing you of top end HP. I have had to constantly PULL fuel from my full throttle section of the map to bring the A/F #s in line. I probably can pull more, but haven't been able to drive the car due to all the transplant work for the new chassis.

[Sundance 6g72]

speaking of wideband and wot tuning, for NA, what afr do you guys like. with ms i was at 12.5 and stock computer 13.2 not sure what was faster (no dyno :( )

the timing made the difference though, thats for sure

[shadow88]

The general rule for a safe a/f ratio is 13:1 for N/A engines. 12:1 for turbo engines and add 1 point richer if using nitrous oxide.

[Sundance 6g72]

i was plannin on 11.5 for turbo...

ryan, ill try and get you a tune of like 12.8:1 and that way with your setup it might be a tad richer or leaner but shouldnt be horrible...

what does your spark advance look like?

[87turbodance]

Should I think it strange that people running MS are running slower?

I blame it on the fact that my VE table is mostly a guess at WOT.

[Vigo]

Ouch. You're definitely way down on power,thats slower than a stock 3.0/543 full weight spirit would be capable of.

I dont see how you could be making power at 7000 rpm with a barely modified engine.. I think you would have trapped higher shifting to 4th (if not ET'ing better).

My 3.0/543 dynasty with plenum divider removed and 52mm tb feels like it's peaking around 52-5300 rpm and then tapering slowly. My auto rev limiter is still at 5800 and while it's losing power at that rpm, i would ride it a few hundred more rpm before shifting if i had the option. I cant picture stock diamante cams moving your powerband more than a few hundred rpms so you're still way out of the powerband at 7k. It's possible some weirdness in your tune is tricking you into shifting late by being in better tune at 6000-something rpm than it is at 5000-something.

The wideband should let you get a lot closer to the full potential of the motor.

[87turbodance]

I'm pretty sure that I was holding onto each gear too long. I was looking through my logs and I was shifting at 6500. I think I would have been better shifting at 5500 or 6000. I love the sound of the 3.0 at 7000 rpm though.

I have 45 degrees timing at WOT from 3000 rpm to red line.

I'm not sure that the Diamente cams make any difference at all.

[Vigo]

6500 is not as outlandish to be shifting at.. Right now my 3.0 dynasty is probably pretty similar to your weight and motor mods (other than the cams, which may or may not do anything) and i think my ideal shift rpm is probably ~6000rpm. Not far off the ~5700 i shift at now. I wish i had the moved rev limit like you because i hit the rev limiter at ~85mph in 3rd, right where i'd probably be trapping, so it would be nice to be able to ride 3rd out at the track like you.

I saw in your other thread that you said you trapped the same whether shifting to 4th or staying in 3rd, so that addresses my earlier statement... I guess it all comes down to waiting for that wideband. :)

[87turbodance]

I really just want to get a wideband and some reground cams. I do need to replace some of the suspension rubber and engine mounts with poly. I thinking about a new chassis though. My Spirit is in great shape for it's age but it has some serious rust where the floor meets the firewall and behind the front wheels.

[bond_bbs]

There is a spotless bone stock 3.0L / 543 1993 Shadow in Bolton for like $2000ish. Red with black 16" Pumpers (I think that's what they're called).. if I remember I think it only had like 170km on it. Its on trader.ca

[Shadowv4l]

The First time i was ever on a drag strip my stock 3.0L DD shadow had two 16.4 second passes back to back at 82mph each time, 4 speed auto, 130,xxx miles on motor. My second run I was able to grab a .174 R/T . Off the line the car did great but by the time I made it past half track the car felt like it wanted to take a nap. Does anyone have a 1/4 mile time for a stock 3.0L with a manual? I think the 4 speed is holding the engine back quite a bit.

[Vigo]

Plenty of people have made runs with 3.0/5spd cars, what body style are you asking about? The shadows run quicker than the spirits, daytonas, and lebarons.

Generally the p-bodies will run low 15s stock, and some people have gotten into the 14s. The heavier cars run high 15s stock. This is for the 5spds. Even the lightest 604/auto struggles to get into the 15s stock, although there have been one or two people that have gone pretty quick with near-stock 3.0/autos.

[Shadowv4l]

A stock P body 3.0 manual hitting 14's, geez, I didnt think they were that quick. Maybe ill have to keep my eyes open for a manual trans and perform a rainy day swap, haha

[Ondonti]

14.308 @ 94.74 = slow? :D

87 - I'd DEFINITELY get an LC-1. Without proper A/F feedback, your tune is probably not as accurate as it could/should be robbing you of power. Once i got my tune dialed in somewhat and the nut behind the wheel tightened, I was mid to low 14's fairly consistently in a full interior P-body. I'd venture a guess that you are ritch in the upper RPMs robbing you of top end HP. I have had to constantly PULL fuel from my full throttle section of the map to bring the A/F #s in line. I probably can pull more, but haven't been able to drive the car due to all the transplant work for the new chassis.

Big difference between making a rare pass on a bad tune and making a LOT of passes on a decent tune. Your car is still missing something for power in all that 24 valves of madness. You took most of the driver out of the equation. I hurt my performance on a regular basis whenever I sat behind the wheel.

For others, most of the problem is the driver. All I ever did with a604 was put it in 1st gear selector, Brake torque until I was on the stall of 2250 or whatever things are stock, and then roll out as fast as I could while holding traction. A543 was a little faster but not consistent. My first pass with a543 was slower then my best a604 pass even though I thought I did a good job, and the car was a little quicker.

YogurtSlingers junk Duster ran a 15.2 stock after sitting 2 years and then a 14.8 when he put some old tiny 22" slicks on. The 15.2 was on 2 year old gasoline. I believe the driver had mad driving skills to go along with a happy 3.0.

[87turbodance]

There is a spotless bone stock 3.0L / 543 1993 Shadow in Bolton for like $2000ish. Red with black 16" Pumpers (I think that's what they're called).. if I remember I think it only had like 170km on it. Its on trader.ca

I'm not a big p body fan. I used to have one and I like the A body better. If I find a nice p body I might reconsider. That being said, $2000 is bit more then I want to spend. I can get a clean 2.5/auto A body for under $1000 and then swap everything over.

I have been considering a 1st gen neon and swapping the 3.0 over with a custom intake.

Maybe a Stratus...

[Sundance 6g72]

neon over stratus. Neon handling is sooo much better and of course its lighter. I love driving the stratus though <3

[bond_bbs]

I'm not a big p body fan. I used to have one and I like the A body better. If I find a nice p body I might reconsider. That being said, $2000 is bit more then I want to spend. I can get a clean 2.5/auto A body for under $1000 and then swap everything over.

I have been considering a 1st gen neon and swapping the 3.0 over with a custom intake.

Maybe a Stratus...

To each their own. My only reason for posting that up is because it is spotless. Most early 90s Dodges for cheap (and expensive sometimes) are rotten or beginning to rot. And this is factory V6/5spd , and being in good shape and relatively low clicks makes her the most rare EEK ever!

[87turbodance]

To each their own. My only reason for posting that up is because it is spotless. Most early 90s Dodges for cheap (and expensive sometimes) are rotten or beginning to rot. And this is factory V6/5spd , and being in good shape and relatively low clicks makes her the most rare EEK ever!

I agree it's a great option. I just another car in my if I'm spending over $2k

I think I found the car you are talking about - nice car! He wants $2900 with 240,000 KM.

I'd rather find myself a Status and swap my motor and trans into it.


---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------


neon over stratus. Neon handling is sooo much better and of course its lighter. I love driving the stratus though <3

I agree but I might need the roomier interior of the Stratus because this car will have to be more then a dedicated track car.

[bond_bbs]

Could be an older ad for the same car, not 100% sure where I saw it.. but I swore it was closer to 2K with lower klicks..

[Vigo]

If you're talking about a 1st gen stratus, i think that's a good idea. IMO it's an attractive car with a decent interior and if i had a 2.0/5spd again (i had one at one time which i parted out for my neon) or a 3.0/5spd i'd be DD'ing it right now. :)

[87turbodance]

If you're talking about a 1st gen stratus, i think that's a good idea. IMO it's an attractive car with a decent interior and if i had a 2.0/5spd again (i had one at one time which i parted out for my neon) or a 3.0/5spd i'd be DD'ing it right now. :)

Yep. A 1st gen stratus with a 3.0/A543 with megasquirt and maybe a turbo over the trans.

[bond_bbs]

If you're looking for a cool transplant idea - there is a guy in my area with a Stealth ES stripped down, has running DOHC 24V 3.0L that he's willing to let go of for cheap. Like $300 - $400 cheap. No tranny though, but bolt that thing to an A543 and have some fun.

With that being said - 87, it sucks that we never got the 2nd (or is it 3rd?) gen Stratii.. the sleaker nicer looking ones that came with 5spd 3.0L in RT trim..

[Vigo]

Stealths have the motor and tranny on opposite sides of the engine bay compared to a dodge. To me, that means it would be pretty pointless to try to swap it to dodge-style orientation when you could start with a COMPLETE sohc/5spd stealth for very cheap and end up in pretty much the same place.

As for the newer stratus coupes (i assume you're talking about the ones from '00 to ~05 here?), i dont really like them. To me, they dont look that great. IMO the 1g Stratus sedan has a really clean, attractive design, and since it came with a similar motor (sohc 24v 2.5l 6g73) you have a lot of stuff to start off with.. it's almost guaranteed that you would not have to do much fabrication to bolt in a 12v 3.0.

i DO think you'd need a custom plenum on a mitsu lower intake, though. Those cars have an intake manifold that is contorted to fit in that engine bay (hood clearance).

[Sundance 6g72]

idk man... to each his own. guy around me goes to the local meats with his 3.0 RT stratus with gloss black paint and wheels, SEXI. needs a slight drop due to the typical stock lifted suspension on our cars but other than that is nice.

otherwise id go for a 2.4 5pd car and just MS it and run an srt4 turbofold with srt 4 rods and pistons from modern performance for cheep. last time i checked they where SUPER cheep (like $400) for rods, pistons and rings.

[87turbodance]

idk man... to each his own. guy around me goes to the local meats with his 3.0 RT stratus with gloss black paint and wheels, SEXI. needs a slight drop due to the typical stock lifted suspension on our cars but other than that is nice.

otherwise id go for a 2.4 5pd car and just MS it and run an srt4 turbofold with srt 4 rods and pistons from modern performance for cheep. last time i checked they where SUPER cheep (like $400) for rods, pistons and rings.

I don't want a 2.4. Too buzzy for me. Whatever car I choose will run either a 6g72 SOHC 12V or SOHC 24V. Likely the 12V because that is what I have. 1st gen Stratus is an attractive option for because it was offered with a mitsu v6 factory, has a modern appearance, suspension and interior. Also, they can be found in decent shape for a small sum of money.

[Ondonti]

I wanted to check out my Duster's shifting problem (doesn't want to go into 1, 3, 5) and while messing with the cables etc etc, I started the motor up and its idling 20:1 AFR during warmup.

I think that might partially be thanks to my KPA settings stopping at 38. I couldn't idle lower KPA then that at 4400 feet elevation.
No throttle response but then it revs up over 5k when I am just trying to throttle it up. So loud with straight pipe 3"
I took off the hatch so I can get new lexan cut. I want to drive it.

It didn't start up as easy as last week but no big deal.

[j4278h]

YogurtSlingers junk Duster ran a 15.2 stock after sitting 2 years and then a 14.8 when he put some old tiny 22" slicks on. The 15.2 was on 2 year old gasoline. I believe the driver had mad driving skills to go along with a happy 3.0.

That was my duster that we pulled out of a field. The only thing we did to that car was put a new rear wheel bearing on it. Then off to the track with it. I drove the heck out of that car without a working tach. Got it to around 14.9 with street tires and down to a 14.6 with slicks.

Ended up with many passes on the car. That car made me a believer out of the 3.0 5speed setup.

[Sundance 6g72]

I wanted to check out my Duster's shifting problem (doesn't want to go into 1, 3, 5) and while messing with the cables etc etc, I started the motor up and its idling 20:1 AFR during warmup.

I think that might partially be thanks to my KPA settings stopping at 38. I couldn't idle lower KPA then that at 4400 feet elevation.
No throttle response but then it revs up over 5k when I am just trying to throttle it up. So loud with straight pipe 3"
I took off the hatch so I can get new lexan cut. I want to drive it.

It didn't start up as easy as last week but no big deal.

same with my car. due to the coolant temp sensor being a gm along with the stock ecu. is your sensor calibrated right? maybe warmup enrichment's are now funky?

[Ondonti]

Well the real issue would really be that stock camshafts move a LOT more air at low rpms then big cams. Not exactly a priority to get right. The car is so loud that I don't know if I should even think about driving it. I think I put a muffler on it but there may also be some leaks.