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Aries_Turbo
09-10-2011, 10:14 AM
dont bother with all that rising rate crap those who are looking to do a 3L.

get an AEM FIC/6 30-1910. 6 injector channels, add and subtract timing and pulsewidth. only potential issue? 25psi max. ~370$ shipped new.

that said, 25psi on a 3l is crazy power, especially if you now have precise control over timing and fuel.

brian

Vigo
09-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Thats funny because i just suggested FIC to Brent (i have one for my 3.3 project) and he was against it..:p But i agree with you.

Biggest hangup about the FIC is you STILL need a socketed ecu so you can get a cal with a moved rev limiter. The FIC itself cant do that. Some people wouldnt care about the rev limiter, but i sure do.

bond_bbs
09-10-2011, 12:10 PM
That price seems a little close to a prebuilt MS2 unit... DIY lists their MS2 prebuilts for $420, and from the sounds of things the MS offers that much more control to justify an extra $50. Or if you buy the Kit to build it yourself, you can have an MS2 for only $265, so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.

Aries_Turbo
09-10-2011, 02:32 PM
Thats funny because i just suggested FIC to Brent (i have one for my 3.3 project) and he was against it..:p But i agree with you.

Biggest hangup about the FIC is you STILL need a socketed ecu so you can get a cal with a moved rev limiter. The FIC itself cant do that. Some people wouldnt care about the rev limiter, but i sure do.

chip with the rev limit is cake for 87-91 cars. i dont know if rob found the location for the 92-94 computers. shouldnt be a hard find if all you want is to change the rev limit and most likely the speed limit.


That price seems a little close to a prebuilt MS2 unit... DIY lists their MS2 prebuilts for $420, and from the sounds of things the MS offers that much more control to justify an extra $50. Or if you buy the Kit to build it yourself, you can have an MS2 for only $265, so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.

MS is harder to get all set up and working like stock. the ease of the FIC is that you can be totally stock up till boost where you can then decrease timing and add fuel and such. your idle will immediately work, you can scale for large injectors with the FIC and have them work like stock etc.

besides, if i want MS... its going to be MS3. :)

the neon guys have good success with them and if you use the SRT-4 version on a obd2 neon, it doesnt trip codes.

codes on our cars arent that big a deal in most states but 96 and newer stuff have a real hard time in alot of states cause of dumb emissions laws.

if i had a 3.0L car still, i would use a FIC even if i had access to the cal to change base timing and fuel values. it also has 2 remapper inputs as well that i bet could be used to increase fuel and or reduce timing if a knock detection box was hooked to them.

Brian

RoadWarrior222
09-10-2011, 02:38 PM
But ..... .... ... .. Okay you're right, I can't imagine needing more than 25psi :D

Vigo
09-10-2011, 04:49 PM
so from what I've read, the FIC isn't the most cost effective if you like at price/performance.

True, but the big advantage is in setting it up. With an FIC you only change what you want to change, everything else remains stock. With an MS you go from a 100% working vehicle to a 0% working vehicle and then work your way back up. Im not saying MS is super duper hard.. but FIC is easier.

Aries_Turbo
09-10-2011, 09:38 PM
dont get me wrong, ms is awesome, especially for the price. but for certain vehicles, id use a FIC. obd2 neon being one of them, and a stock internal mild boosted 3.0L being the other.

id probably use one on a home brew boosted obd2 subaru 2.5L (like my forester) with STi pistons and connecting rods too. 100$ for the rods and slugs, 100$ for a walbro, some large injectors and a FIC and an intercooler/turbo setup. easy and no maf based wiring swap crap. :)

Brian

Aries_Turbo
09-11-2011, 09:37 PM
thats awesome man, im glad your stubborn and persevered through this setup you have. now i can copy it, haha.

watch the timing in boost. thats part of the reason i suggested the AEM FIC. you can reduce timing in boost whereas with just a regulator you cant.

Brian

Sundance 6g72
09-11-2011, 09:43 PM
.. ed could not get timing control with e manage.. seems like the ecu gets in the way? im curious if the system your ^ ^ suggesting will work better. a stand alone isnt for everyone so having timing and fuel control with a simpler package would be a good thing

shayne
09-11-2011, 09:59 PM
i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over. i have to read on to see if i can use my distributors timing sensor to trigger the fic as my motor doesnt use a cam sensor and i need to find out if it can fire a regular coil and distributor setup as the installs i have seen are distributorless. but it would appear after scaling for bigger injectors, i wouldnt need to use a rrr, just afpr, and tune the fueling by changing the duty cycle..
i am not tech savvy and this piggyback thing is pretty daunting to me, a rrr i can understand pretty well, and thats why im excited ordonti's car is running properly now.

Aries_Turbo
09-11-2011, 10:29 PM
i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over. i have to read on to see if i can use my distributors timing sensor to trigger the fic as my motor doesnt use a cam sensor and i need to find out if it can fire a regular coil and distributor setup as the installs i have seen are distributorless. but it would appear after scaling for bigger injectors, i wouldnt need to use a rrr, just afpr, and tune the fueling by changing the duty cycle..
i am not tech savvy and this piggyback thing is pretty daunting to me, a rrr i can understand pretty well, and thats why im excited ordonti's car is running properly now.

yeah the FIC cant add timing. it doesnt manipulate the map sensor line to change timing though. it intercepts the signals from the distributor and delays them, creating timing retard when needed.

brian

Ondonti
09-12-2011, 12:25 AM
So all that thing can do is pull timing...Seems like a lot of expense unless you obtain it Vigo style. I am running 91 octane right now and I turned the boost up a tiny bit more, backed off the RR onset fuel pressure. Still rich.
We normally 3-4 degrees timing to n/a 3.0's running 87 octane so I think 91 octane and 6 pounds of boost on 12 degrees base timing is so safe its boring.

Vigo
09-12-2011, 01:20 AM
i have been doing a lot of reading and it seems as though the fic manipulates the map sensor reading so the computer thinks it needs to reduce timing, but nowhere have i read that it can increase timing so far. i was given an emanage by a friend who had it on his turbo accord, but it seems as though nobody has figured out the timing features for a dodge computer, plus emanage seems to be a bit of a dinosaur in the piggyback world as the new models with new features are taking over.

The fic can modify the map signal the ECU sees to manipulate timing, and on a vehicle with NON-adjustable base timing this is one way to use the FIC to advance timing.. trick the computer into thinking you are under high-ignition-advance conditions at all times and then scale it back as needed with the FIC. This is tuning-intensive and unnecessary for a 3.0..

Because, on a 3.0 with adjustable base timing, you can just crank in a mile of base ignition timing, and then retard back down to the numbers you want through the software using only the timing maps (whereas if you were heavily modifying the map signal you'd have to heavily modify the fuel maps as well and might pick up all sorts of other little issues with anything else the computer uses map signal as an input for). So, on a 3.0, you CAN effectively advance the timing using the FIC, without NECESSARILY modifying the map signal (although you can still do so if you want).

The FIC is, from what ive seen, far more capable than the E-manages, and with a few notable exceptions (cant raise rev limits, cant advance timing much or at all on certain apps) it is a lot like having a standalone without the need of having a base map or trying to make it work with factory gauges, etc. As far as i know, the FIC does not *take away* anything you might like about stock engine controls, because whatever you already like, you dont have to change.

Aries_Turbo
09-12-2011, 08:00 AM
the FIC can do alot more than just modify the timing.

it INTERCEPTS the actual injector signals and scales them on the fly for larger injectors and then adds pulsewidth with its map sensor when you go into boost.

you can also modify the MAP sensor signal for various reasons and clamp the signal so that the factory ecu stays happy.

you can also modify the O2 sensor signals as well to keep things safe in part throttle boost.

so basically, when you get into boost, the FIC is pretty much running the show, like a standalone more or less. its the best piggyback ive ever seen.


RRR is actually quite a good solution if you change the VE map and rev limiter on the base cal.

i agree with this. id also want to change the timing value for 0 vac as well in the anticipation of boost. that alone will be fine for a low boost setup.

now if you are going to go with the same regulator that you have, its less than the price of the RRR plus the stuff to do a cal to change the VE among other things.

its probably about the same price to do a FIC and have rob do a cal with no changes other than rev limit and no speed limiter.

Brian

shayne
09-13-2011, 12:13 AM
i didnt think rob wanted to do anything for the sbecII let alone a full cal. i am wondering if the piggyback debate would be a strong thread on its own rather than confuse up this build thread. im still glad ordonti's car is making him happy now, its gotta feel good after reading 20pages of frustration and anger with parts and tuning woes.

Vigo
09-13-2011, 01:33 AM
I 2nd the motion to move the piggyback discussion. I hear Brian has magical powers along those lines, even. :p

Aries_Turbo
09-13-2011, 10:12 AM
magical powers engaged lol

RoadWarrior222
09-13-2011, 04:31 PM
Wow, how did you do that? Wave your wang?

shayne
09-14-2011, 12:24 AM
so i understand the idea of advancing the actuall timing waay beyond the norm, and retarding it using the fic to where you want it which may be advanced compared to the stock timing settings. the other thought in my head was it seems as though the fic needs a cam sensor and a crank sensor to see what the rpms are and to manipulate timing via the stock ecm, but my problem is my motor only has a distributor, no cam sensor, or crank sensor. if i drove the cam sensor input with the output signal from my distributor, would it recognize it as a signal to retard for spark. would i need to add a crank sensor to keep the fic happy to identify rpms? just curious how a setup for a 3l would be laid out. the tuneability would be cool to have though i personally have no experience with tuning a car with a computer myself.

Aries_Turbo
09-14-2011, 09:47 AM
you would wire the FIC between the distributor connectors and the stock ECU. both the high and low rate signals. it intercepts those signals and delays them so that the stock ecu sees the signals later (ie retarded) but doesnt know, so its happy.

so yes, you could advance the distributor say, 5 degrees and then take 5 degrees out of the entire FIC timing map so that it appears to be totally stock. then you have 5 degrees to play with as far as adding timing.

Brian

shayne
09-14-2011, 06:15 PM
so i could use the distributors output to send signal for spark to the fic, would i need to add a crank sensor from, say a later model 3l from a van? and run it solely to the fic, or would i need to see if i could pick out a wire that has a tach signal for the fic to read for rpms? or does the fic even really need a crank sensor input to work? i have a greddy already, but if altering timing via the fic can be done relatively easily than i could sell it and go this route instead.

Aries_Turbo
09-14-2011, 09:01 PM
you know what, i dont know if it requires a crank sensor. it has 2 cam inputs/outputs so that you can do the low and high rate for the cam signals.

maybe someone ought to ask on the aem forums. ill do some digging. :)

Brian

Sundance 6g72
09-14-2011, 10:26 PM
MS controls timing for the dizzy with just 3 wires coming from the dizzy

Connect the Grey wire to pin 24 / shielded white wire on the megasquirt harness.
Connect Black/Light Blue to megasquirt sensor ground wire.
Connect the Orange wire to the same power source as megasquirt to power the distributor.

i dont see why the aem would be any different unless its only good for systems with a crank sensor/ cam position sensor.




basically, the orange dizzy wire is powered when the ignition turns on, the black wire is ground and then grey wire is the actually wire that sends rpm info and such to the MS. From there you need to set the trigger angle is megasquirt to sync up with the timing of the dizzy. we do this by setting a fixed timing of 10* in MS and then use a timing light to find where we are. if its off, adjust the trigger angle in tuner studio until you read 10* with the timing light. I would think the AEM had a similar process for syncing the timing for a distributor based ignition..

shayne
09-23-2011, 11:46 PM
from what i can see, the aem only intercepts the spark firing impulses from the distributor on the way to the ecm, the unit needs at least one input for spark to control timing and it needs a signal for rpm via a magnetic or hall effect crank sensor. ms, is totally different due to being standalone, the aem fic simply modifies, and limits what the ecm can see and react to. it looks as though i can run a stand alone crank sensor (with 5v power?) and 36-1 wheel to give the unit a rpm signal. the one thing still that is in my mind is that with obd1 cars like my sbec2 i dont know if i can monitor and adjust fuel trims realtime, to avoid the computer learning the short term and longterm fuel trims being out of whack by richening up the mixture while in boost or in transition to boost. i suppose i could use a o2 simulator and use a standalone wideband o2 sensor to monitor and adjust fueling, and totally keep the ecm in the dark for fuel control. any ideas anyone? lets discuss this more.

Sundance 6g72
09-23-2011, 11:59 PM
thats why i dont like the idea of a piggy back system. Ed ran emanage though and i think he was fine as far as the computer learning and tuning out your changes. not sure though.

how much does the aem cost? I think you can wire MS in as just an ignition control and the sbec will just throw a code possibly?

Vigo
09-24-2011, 10:53 AM
to avoid the computer learning the short term and longterm fuel trims being out of whack by richening up the mixture while in boost or in transition to boost. i suppose i could use a o2 simulator and use a standalone wideband o2 sensor to monitor and adjust fueling, and totally keep the ecm in the dark for fuel control. any ideas anyone?

The FIC can offset the o2 sensor signals so the computer sees what you want it to see from the o2s. That way you can adjust your offsets so that the fuel trims stay near 0 with your setup.

Sundance 6g72
09-24-2011, 11:09 AM
so remember what afr you are at when part throttle and wot and have the aem telll the spec that that is what is happening even though you might be super rich?

how much does this thing even cost

shayne
09-24-2011, 11:17 AM
then could i monitor fuel trims real time using a mechanic quality scan tool on my sbec2? i see the manual says to put a resistor in the o2 sensor signal line, and then run a "tee" for the f/ic to add or reduce voltage as it see's fit as the signal wire goes to the ecm to convince the computer the trims are fine. i know on an obd2 car this isnt a question, its easy to monitor fuel trims.

---------- Post added at 08:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 AM ----------

ebay says approx 350-400 plus shipping and taxes at the border for me. i dont want to go standalone due to me using my a604, and the lack of support for the ms2 to talk to the trans properly, and the megashift being in its infancy still (not to mention the lack of built in capacity to compensate for worn clutches)

Sundance 6g72
09-24-2011, 11:34 AM
MS can be installed as a piggy back

edit: well sort of

i think you can hook it up to just the injectors and have it control the injectors without any input from the sbec.

it just needs inputs from all your sensors still i think. 87turbodance would know more on the subject than me.

i like the idea of the aem but $350 is to much imo compared to megasquirt

shayne
09-24-2011, 11:44 AM
the big thing is ms would do a good job as a partial controller or a side by side install but the problem exists of my stubborness plus with a piggyback the car always has a very close base tune for 90% of the driving conditions when out of boost. with the ms i would still need to find a way to modify what the computer sees for fueling or else it may go goofy and try to pull timing or throw a bunch of codes and put the trans into a limp mode. not trying to say that the piggyback way is better, just trying to explore a different route that is more appealing to me at this juncture. failing this i will probably duplicate ordonti's rising rate setup. truthfully for every sucessfull ms install thread i see many hundreds more threads of problems and failures and tuning difficulties (not just on this site or other td sites but also truck sites where guys are converting older carbed truck to more modern efi)

Aries_Turbo
09-24-2011, 12:20 PM
adam, hook your FIC up to your 3L dynasty and see if it can offset the distributor timing signals without having a crank sensor.

i havent asked yet but because the distributor is at cam speed, and the FIC has cam specific inputs, that it can determine RPM and stuff with only cam signals and no crank.... makes sense cause the oem ecu does it that way and it makes sense that it has 2 cam sensor inputs for multiple cam sensors or distributor signals.

i registered on the aem forums. when my account is activated, ill do some more digging.

Brian

c2xejk
09-24-2011, 12:28 PM
thats why i dont like the idea of a piggy back system. Ed ran emanage though and i think he was fine as far as the computer learning and tuning out your changes. not sure though.

I use an FMU and AFPR to keep big injectors "stock appearing" to the stock ecu for off boost use. The FMU handles bulk of the extra fuel in boost with the e-Manage fine tuning the fuel (the lean spot on transition into boost and at higher RPM where the ported heads and intake improve flow...)

If you just run large injectors the stock ecu will use the long term fuel compensation factor to tune them out...

If you are staying in the stock RPM range on a turbo 3L, the Greddy e-Manage is a GREAT way to go. Easier to wire in and behaves stock in the non-altered areas. (ie. idle, cruising, starting, etc.) I have documentation on my website showing how to wire it in...

Ed Kelly
www.kmperformance.com

shayne
09-24-2011, 02:34 PM
^i have read the install, a close friend of mine gave me his emanage blue off of his honda accord and i have already peeled it open to switch around the jumpers and the "knobs" on the bottom, problem is for me he didnt include the harness or the cable for tuning the unit, i already have a copy of a good version of the software and the same friend is a member of a mail list that specializes in emanage stuff, i am looking at the aem because of the possibility of controlling timing, so far nobody has managed to control timing on a dodge with the emanage.
side note, a tech person at aem said to me via phone, that during the initializing you do to your aem install on your car, it says to start it up and bring it to 3000 rpm and press a button on your laptop screen to initialize the crank signal, he said it is his impression that the program sees whatever signal it gets for rpm and uses it to calculate your rpm based on how many pulses it sees at 3000rpm. so my impression is that maybe i could use the high rate (360-4?) pattern to act as a crank signal for the computer even though its only moving at half the actual rpm?

87turbodance
09-25-2011, 10:07 AM
If the AEM has a crank and cam signal input. The low data rate output on the dizzy is equivalent to a 3 toothed crank position sensor. The high data rate line has the missing section which would be used as a cam position sensor (not sure how many teeth total or how many missing).

Vigo
09-25-2011, 11:29 AM
I dont remember why i think this but i thought the trigger wheel had 360 holes? or maybe 359 heh.

Brian i am definitely putting the FIC on my 3.3 dynasty.

RoadWarrior222
09-25-2011, 11:50 AM
10 missing, 350 holes IIRC I've posted a diagram several times, see if I can find it again...

---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

Oh crap, dodgy memory

15*, 15 slot blank, 345 holes

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4927/30v6encoder.jpg

Sundance 6g72
09-25-2011, 01:49 PM
the big thing is ms would do a good job as a partial controller or a side by side install but the problem exists of my stubborness plus with a piggyback the car always has a very close base tune for 90% of the driving conditions when out of boost. with the ms i would still need to find a way to modify what the computer sees for fueling or else it may go goofy and try to pull timing or throw a bunch of codes and put the trans into a limp mode. not trying to say that the piggyback way is better, just trying to explore a different route that is more appealing to me at this juncture. failing this i will probably duplicate ordonti's rising rate setup. truthfully for every sucessfull ms install thread i see many hundreds more threads of problems and failures and tuning difficulties (not just on this site or other td sites but also truck sites where guys are converting older carbed truck to more modern efi)

in 100% honesty. i can make a tune based off of Ed's tune in 20min to get my self to work and school everyday. Making it perfect takes a little longer but its not hard and imo MS drove better than the stock ecu did. IT really isnt as big of a deal as some think. i thought it would be a pain at first but it really isnt.

as for the tranny computer.. idk

and for the failures, not everyone posts up about how well MS is working. Most only find time to post when they have problems. This is true with anything. I only recommend MS because i use it and its cheep... any stand alone will do.

shayne
09-25-2011, 04:53 PM
i just disected my own distributor to look at the optical sensors disc and its identical to the image posted, what concerns me now it that if the low rate just controls injector timing than it wont be anywhere close to ignition timing for my purposes, and with the high rate giving data to the ecm for ignition timing means that the ignition is completely timed internally in the ecm which means i could try to delay the signal to the coil from the ecm (if the aem could do that, my impression is it needs to delay the cam signal to the ecm) or could the aem handle delaying the high rate signal to the ecm? a standalone crank sensor wouldnt be that hard too do to give the aem a rpm signal with a generic magnetic sensor and a 36-1 wheel.
also a friend who has a later model caravan with a 3l has a factory crank sensor on the trans bellhousing, it reads a flexplate that has a given number of cut-outs to give rpm data, and his distributor is different on the inside.
anybody have any more thoughts?
just checked again.. the gaps in the high rate ring dont line up with the low rate ring like they do in the picture posted. i need to figure out how to post pictures.

87turbodance
09-25-2011, 05:44 PM
The 96+ Caravan has the crank teeth on the flexplate. I believe it has 3 sets of teeth - 2 sets of 4 and one set of 5. The 96+ van dizzy is just a TDC sensor - the inside of it is a half moon disk.

shayne
09-25-2011, 06:14 PM
^thats what it all looked like to me, poor guy got all freaked out when i started digging into his van because i wanted to know more about how his and mine are different.. lol.

Aries_Turbo
09-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Brian i am definitely putting the FIC on my 3.3 dynasty.

Can you do me a favor and try it on the 3.0l to see if it works acceptably?

just hook up the distributor outputs and see if it reads RPM and then try to put some retard into the table at idle and check with a timing light.

thanks

Brian

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

btw, even though its optical, it should respond like a hall effect.

Brian

turbovanmanČ
09-28-2011, 02:03 PM
What about the MSD 7AL is it? It has a completely programmable spark curve and its built with boost in mind so it can retard timing too! :nod:

I might be getting a 93 AWD 3.0L van for the wife, so this now interests me, :eyebrows:

Vigo
09-28-2011, 06:54 PM
FYI all the awd vans were 3.3/3.8. But a 3.0 swap is pretty straightforward, especially since you know your way around a transmission. You have to swap the AWD diff carrier into a 3.0 case but other than that i think it's bolt-in. Kreel did it so check out his thread (3.0 section i think).

Aries_Turbo
09-28-2011, 08:03 PM
adam, quit posting on here and put the FIC on your 3.0L dynasty!!!! :)

brian

turbovanmanČ
09-28-2011, 08:10 PM
FYI all the awd vans were 3.3/3.8. But a 3.0 swap is pretty straightforward, especially since you know your way around a transmission. You have to swap the AWD diff carrier into a 3.0 case but other than that i think it's bolt-in. Kreel did it so check out his thread (3.0 section i think).

Hmmmmmmm, ok, she told me it was a 3.0L, I asked her to describe it too. Crap, might have to rethink it, I don't want to be swapping transmissions, cases and engines, :(

Vigo
09-29-2011, 07:46 PM
Then turbo the 3.3. :)

Brian, i am too lazy! Also im not touching the 3.0 dynasty right now because im DDing it while my insight is down. The last time i tried to do anything to this car when i needed it, i broke the computer. lol.

Aries_Turbo
09-29-2011, 09:15 PM
cmon, its two wires. :)

sorry, its 4 wires... two for power and 2 intercepts to the dizzy. :)

Vigo
09-29-2011, 09:24 PM
that and i would have to actually fix my laptop power jack so i can take it out there and read the stupid thing.. :p

RoadWarrior222
09-30-2011, 09:27 AM
Well that will only take you two hours as long as you have 200 numbered containers to put the bits in as you strip it down :D

shayne
01-01-2012, 08:48 PM
back from the dead. nissan sr20det's running the aem f/ic or ems as well have sync problems with the cas disc. this is the same principle system we have on our 3l's. and in fact one of the common mitsubishi optical sensors is the exact one we have in our distributors. people are reporting frequent problems with sync'ing the hitachi made cas, but more success with the mitsubishi ones after altering how the aem software see's the signals (rising edge vs falling edge), but sync errors occur at higher rpms in many cases.

Sundance 6g72
01-01-2012, 09:16 PM
Neon guys use the fic.. but they have crank sensors. Local guy likes his but i convinced him to go megasquirr.. but i think he changed his mind. Fic works well for him

Ondonti
01-01-2012, 09:42 PM
back from the dead. nissan sr20det's running the aem f/ic or ems as well have sync problems with the cas disc. this is the same principle system we have on our 3l's. and in fact one of the common mitsubishi optical sensors is the exact one we have in our distributors. people are reporting frequent problems with sync'ing the hitachi made cas, but more success with the mitsubishi ones after altering how the aem software see's the signals (rising edge vs falling edge), but sync errors occur at higher rpms in many cases. So this wouldn't matter if you went with the AEM adapter on the distributor. Not that that needs to be necessary.

shayne
01-02-2012, 02:16 AM
if you use the aem cas disc then the factory ecm wont fire properly, it wont recognize the new optical pattern being sent to it. the aem cas disc is what you use with aem ems or possibly another standalone. from what i have been reading about the mitsubishi optical sensors, they provide the cam and crank sensor inputs for other cars.. ones with nissan sr20de or det's rb26det etc.. in these other apps, the outside high rate ring is used for can sensor input, and the inside low data rate is used for crank. then i would think that maybe our computers use the low and high data rate's in the same way.
what i cant tell for sure is if the aem would sync with our cas discs. one thing we have in our favor is our high rate rings have a void of 15 slots that would be recognized relatively easily, and our low rate is 6 evenly spaced evenly sized slots, unlike the rb26's with 6 evenly spaced from the start but unequal length slots.
the moral of the story is i am wondering if we could make the f/ic work on our 3l's giving someone the full benefit of a piggyback like this.
and with the rpm raised and speed limit removed from our neighbourhood tuner the key to a well controlled turbo setup without going standalone could happen.
im cheap.. and i want factory reliability from a factory computer
i suppose one could duplicate the cam and crank senor data rings with specially made rings adapted to the motor and send sensor input that replicates the stock setup to the sbecII through the use of magnetic sensors or hall effect sensors, as firing the aem f/ic that way seems to be pretty foolproof.

side note what is the minimum amount of time for a saturated high"z" injector to work. how large of a high z injector could one use scaled down and run at 43.5psi to give a correct idle mixture? 45lbs/hr? 60lbs/hr?

Ondonti
01-02-2012, 03:22 AM
Hah I forgot how the AEM distributor adapter attached. It does sound like someone needs to try it out before a lot of promotion is done.
I am also not sure if anyone is planning to be helpful with the rev limiter on the SBECII which is the majority of 3.0's out there. Limiter something that just screams to be raised.

Sundance 6g72
01-02-2012, 03:28 AM
+ 1 on the limiter. mine was at 6400 or so during a race and i topped out 4th because i didnt feel the power loss from the diamante cams.. maybe i had most of my attention to the road but i hit the limiter instead of letting off when i felt the loss.

you guys with the regrinds can go even further than my petty 6800 limiter that i now have set for funzies.

so the only thing stopping people from using fic is the question of "will it work with our dizzy" ?

what about the apexi safc? do they have timing control. that would be another option. might be using one for my tach.. LOL, one expensive tacho.

shayne
01-02-2012, 12:31 PM
yep, the only thing stopping me is will it work with our dizzy, it'll be hard to justify buying it without being able to control timing. (could just go with my free emanage blue and a msd 6al-btm for cheap'ish from a friend, for timing retard in boost) but the aem would offer some very nice tunability if it would work.

for the record, shelgame can raise the rpm limit on sbecII's, he's currently doing it for another member with a v6, and ive pm'd him lots about what he can do for the sbecII's for v6's. im told rpm limit can be raised and also speed limiter.

Sundance 6g72
01-02-2012, 12:48 PM
I know he tried it but last i knew he couldnt get the car to start on a socketed sbecII

MC#4
01-02-2012, 06:17 PM
Shel-game has my ecu right now. He said it would be no problem to up the stock limiters. I sure hope my car starts once i get it back... This is for a 94 3.0 auto ecu car now has a swapped 5 speed though. Hopefully he doesn't mind but It cost about $140 with shipping both ways for those interested.

87turbodance
01-02-2012, 07:33 PM
The stock 3.0 dizzy operated just like an NPN hall-effect sensor. outputs go to ground whenever there is hole in the slotted disk under the sensor.

FYI, the low data info can be replicated with a simple 3 toothed wheel on the crank and and NPN hall-effect sensor.

Can the FIC take in a custom crank sensor signal (like a 36-1 wheel) and then output a stock style signal (3 pulses per crank revolution) to the SBEC?

Aries_Turbo
01-02-2012, 10:09 PM
is it the high rate wheel or the low rate wheel or both that doesnt work with AEM products?

brian

shayne
01-02-2012, 10:12 PM
my understanding (take it for what its worth) from talking to a tech from aem was that the f/ic cannot change the ignition signals from the sensors only pass them along either immediately of delayed buy using the cam degree (high rate) pulses to determine timing retard to the sbecII. basically delaying how quickly the sbec "see's" the distributors sensor.
what you can change is how the sensor talks to the sbec via the stock signal, hence the rising edge or falling edge. (this phrase makes sense when you see the occiloscope reading from the optical sensor)

the tech also said the low data rate that would be the signal for the crank position wouldnt be a problem at all as the slots are rather large and even in size and location. POSSIBLE issue would be if the aem can sync with the high rate data ring

Aries_Turbo
01-02-2012, 10:14 PM
so the output of the FIC (sensor interrupt) is incompatible with the SMEC/SBEC for what it expects to see?

brian

shayne
01-02-2012, 10:24 PM
---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

the aem has trouble intrepeting the optical sensors high rate signals properly, or, apparently, sometimes not quick enough. our distributors have a more predictable patterm than some of the other jap cars, so i and wondering if it wouldnt be a problem to make the timing work.

Ondonti
01-03-2012, 02:06 AM
Shel-game has my ecu right now. He said it would be no problem to up the stock limiters. I sure hope my car starts once i get it back... This is for a 94 3.0 auto ecu car now has a swapped 5 speed though. Hopefully he doesn't mind but It cost about $140 with shipping both ways for those interested. Some sort of extended timing/fuel map to go along with that? Sold.
Auto ECU's are so much easier to come up with too :) No worries for me if it fries. I have a couple in storage.

MC#4
01-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Some sort of extended timing/fuel map to go along with that? Sold.
Auto ECU's are so much easier to come up with too :) No worries for me if it fries. I have a couple in storage.

You know I hadn't really thought about that. I just sent him an email asking "Do you happen to know if the car will actually run up to ~7000rpms with proper fuel/timing? Limit on that ecu is 5800 from factory and my concern is that it won't know what to do after 5800." I'm such a noob :(

c2xejk
01-03-2012, 01:43 PM
Likely the table lookups hold at the last entry in the table when the range is exceeded..

Ondonti
01-04-2012, 05:08 AM
So massive overfuel as the VE drops off.

MC#4
01-04-2012, 08:50 AM
I know this is an AEM FIC thread but I don't think this is too off topic. Is there no one running a socketed 3.0 ECU? Is everyone on MS? I wanted to stay with the stock ecu just because my build wasn't over the top + I'm staying N/A. I just wanted my speed/rev limiters gone.

Kreel
01-04-2012, 11:00 AM
I know this is an AEM FIC thread but I don't think this is too off topic. Is there no one running a socketed 3.0 ECU? Is everyone on MS? I wanted to stay with the stock ecu just because my build wasn't over the top + I'm staying N/A. I just wanted my speed/rev limiters gone.

I believe one person was working with Shelgame (Traquility...not sure if he's here or only on TD) but we haven't had an update in a long time.

Sundance 6g72
01-04-2012, 12:24 PM
like brent said, you would run way rich with stock cams because the flow drops way off.. you can see it in my VE table

If it keeps the same fueling that it would have at 5800rpms then 6500rpms will be way to rich and you dont make power there in the first place. You can really notice it when trying to hit 7000rpms while N/A

this picture isnt exactly spot on by any means so dont look at the actually values, but look at how they peak around 4000rpms and then then die off around 5200rpms rather quickly. Same curve as my dyno sheet

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394537_10150567035128899_534573898_10646368_904784 464_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/253791_10150260606898899_534573898_8688963_8217905 _n.jpg


megasquirt or even the fic isnt really going over the top. It works well in stock form and makes it really easy to diagnose problems. there is a guy on TD that cant figure out why his car wont start, and when it does it stalls out. Hes checking sensors and such. I just take a look at the laptop and figure it out quickly.

c2xejk
01-04-2012, 01:19 PM
I know this is an AEM FIC thread but I don't think this is too off topic. Is there no one running a socketed 3.0 ECU? Is everyone on MS? I wanted to stay with the stock ecu just because my build wasn't over the top + I'm staying N/A. I just wanted my speed/rev limiters gone.

I am running an e-Manage on my turbo 3L car.

Sundance 6g72
01-04-2012, 02:43 PM
yeah ed runs emanage. everyone else to my knowledge runs megasquirt or a rising rate regulator

fic would work just as good as emanage. the problem is getting them to work with the ignition so you can retard timing when you need to.

Ondonti
01-04-2012, 04:13 PM
So a hacked ecu will only do you good if you have a piggyback

MC#4
01-04-2012, 05:20 PM
So a hacked ecu will only do you good if you have a piggyback

eh, that's what I'm getting out of it. Probably ends up being about the same cost as MS just a little less wiring and tune setup, but less versatility.

c2xejk
01-04-2012, 08:18 PM
On the up side with a piggy-back, way easier to wire up and less tuning that needs to be done. I think the e-Manage will work with the spark, but I am guessing that my unit has some kind of problem. That said, I have not had an issue running 8-10psi on the stock spark table.

Aries_Turbo
01-04-2012, 09:37 PM
well someone needs to try the FIC on a 3.0L so we can know for a fact that the high rate wheel will or will not be a problem.

Brian

shayne
01-05-2012, 12:03 AM
hmmmmm, somebody.. btw, sorry for putting up possibly erroneous information, i may have gotten the purpose for the high rate ring, and the low rate ring backward, but im not sure. i was just reading the other day and it looked to me as though the high rate might be for the crank sensor, and the low rate may be cam timing? i dunno, im a bit confused now. gotta look into it further.

Aries_Turbo
01-05-2012, 09:22 PM
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36532&d=1325812926

36532

Brian

shayne
09-07-2012, 12:03 AM
update, as of an hour ago simon dropped by my place and helped me get my car started, (i had the distributor off a tooth, durrrr)
it started up and idled just fine after his help, and i was able to configure the piggyback to understand the distributors cas disc and pickup.
still have to drive the car and tune it, i will update any successes and failures with how i wired it up. and if anyone wants the wiring details as per a 3.0l '92 harness i can pm them or post them.
this may be a good alternative to those not wanting to do megasquirt but retain fueling control and timing control (as far as retarding timing)

Vigo
09-07-2012, 12:22 AM
Woohoo!!

Dont forget, you CAN use the fic to effectively advance timing. You just have to crank your base timing and then take it back out in the software from everywhere you dont want it. Tedious but better than no options?

shayne
09-07-2012, 01:24 AM
true, and as long as you put the correction amount in the ignition table it wouldnt be too hard to deal with, but it'd be nice to see what the factory's table looks like.

turbovanmanČ
09-07-2012, 01:36 AM
true, and as long as you put the correction amount in the ignition table it wouldnt be too hard to deal with, but it'd be nice to see what the factory's table looks like.

Rob's already cracked the cal, he just can't turbo it yet so he should be able to post the spark curve.

MC#4
09-07-2012, 09:02 AM
update, as of an hour ago simon dropped by my place and helped me get my car started, (i had the distributor off a tooth, durrrr)
it started up and idled just fine after his help, and i was able to configure the piggyback to understand the distributors cas disc and pickup.
still have to drive the car and tune it, i will update any successes and failures with how i wired it up. and if anyone wants the wiring details as per a 3.0l '92 harness i can pm them or post them.
this may be a good alternative to those not wanting to do megasquirt but retain fueling control and timing control (as far as retarding timing)

interested in details

Khajjathefang
09-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Sheesh, this thread makes me think i ought to try and sell that old hks aic sitting in my garage. Doesn't do anything for timing but it would be a helluva lot cheaper and its "period correct" lol

Cool thread

Sundance 6g72
09-07-2012, 05:31 PM
i have an apexi safc siting around but i dont have a 3.0 car with a wideband to see if it will work or not. should not be to hard to wire into place either.

id offer to sell it to someone, i got it for $50 but its going to be going to a friend of mine for his 240sx project.

Ondonti
02-15-2016, 12:40 AM
update, as of an hour ago simon dropped by my place and helped me get my car started, (i had the distributor off a tooth, durrrr)
it started up and idled just fine after his help, and i was able to configure the piggyback to understand the distributors cas disc and pickup.
still have to drive the car and tune it, i will update any successes and failures with how i wired it up. and if anyone wants the wiring details as per a 3.0l '92 harness i can pm them or post them.
this may be a good alternative to those not wanting to do megasquirt but retain fueling control and timing control (as far as retarding timing)

Well now I need need a handle on these settings as I think i need an FIC in one of my 3.0s which would not be benefitted by installing megasquirt. I do wish we had an sbecii with raised rev limiter even if the fuel and timing was flat

Ondonti
06-16-2016, 09:44 PM
Have Shayne's old AEM FIC test Installed on my 3.0 Daily.

After I resync'd the rpm which was wrong because I set it to the starter speed just so I could get the car to start I was able to accurately change the timing. With the calibration slightly off on RPM adjustment timing Corrections were incorrect.

Have to make an edit on the harness and then heatshrink and wrap it up. I have to video record my scanner to see max pulsewidth on stock cal. I can run 16.5ms pulse widths at 85% duty cycle and stock 6200 rpm limiter.

Shayne saved the day on the rpm recalibration call.

The wiring error involves me intercepting the TPS signal so I can modify it with the AEM FIC and force "WOT" condition whenever manifold pressure Is in boost. No more part throttle boost excessive timing! I send the signal out of the FIC back into the stock ECU and the FIC so I am lying to both

Aries_Turbo
06-17-2016, 01:34 PM
cool. I've wanted to see one of these on one of your 3.0l cars

Ondonti
06-17-2016, 03:48 PM
cool. I've wanted to see one of these on one of your 3.0l cars

Tps issue is really killing me. Works fine until I plug my splice in and it jumps to 5v on the scanner causing flood clear. Ruining an otherwise happy install. I cut out the tps interception and am just trying to get it to work with zero interference except the additional 2 connectors and extra wire length. Still have to verify ground. I was a bit too sleepy last night to actually do proper troubleshooting.

I want to be out racing tomorrow so I am grumpy!!!!

Vigo
06-18-2016, 01:24 AM
The only way the TPS signal would jump to 5v was if you somehow buggered the sensor ground circuit so the other end of the potentiometer didn't have anywhere to split voltage to. I doubt the FIC is feeding the 5v the SBEC is reading.

Aries_Turbo
06-18-2016, 09:30 PM
Tps issue is really killing me. Works fine until I plug my splice in and it jumps to 5v on the scanner causing flood clear. Ruining an otherwise happy install. I cut out the tps interception and am just trying to get it to work with zero interference except the additional 2 connectors and extra wire length. Still have to verify ground. I was a bit too sleepy last night to actually do proper troubleshooting.

I want to be out racing tomorrow so I am grumpy!!!!

could you get a potentiometer and hook one side to 5v, and one side to sensor ground and turn it till the voltage out is the same as what your car is at WOT. feed that fake WOT signal to a single pole double throw relay (SPDT) and trigger the relay with a pressure switch set to 1psi or less.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/522/medium/pressureswitchwot.jpg

Ondonti
06-20-2016, 12:23 AM
could you get a potentiometer and hook one side to 5v, and one side to sensor ground and turn it till the voltage out is the same as what your car is at WOT. feed that fake WOT signal to a single pole double throw relay (SPDT) and trigger the relay with a pressure switch set to 1psi or less.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/522/medium/pressureswitchwot.jpg


Turns out that the Van harness connectors I grabbed have the "dead" plug hole in the light grey connector in a different spot than the AA body cars of the same era. There was no ground! I just popped the tops off and moved the wire where the plug was and vice versa.

The AEM FIC TPS modification works too.

I just got my first datalogs.

Complaints so far.

#1 Accell enrichment is not good. Lucky that they added simple accell enrichment before stopping support of FIC.

#2 OEM ecu has a code for injector #6 circuit. No idea what that means. I am not happy about it. Constant check engine light.

The good?
I have already dug into the timing maps after setting everything up with the timing light and proving it works. I have the distributor advanced to 22 degrees and pulled 10 degrees across the board. This gives me a lot of advance potential and also makes changes simple when looked at visually. -11 degrees is actually -1 degree. -9 degrees is adding 1 degree of timing over stock.

According to my datalog, the tune was already very spot on. Mid 11's AFR so the OEM VE (fuel/pumping) curve fits the "stock" motor as it should (though I did add fuel at 12psi and above in the maps for future safety to tune out). Looks like the car really only runs about 9.2psi average boost from 4500 to 6200 limiter. More like 7psi from 3500 to 4500. The boost logged is between 7.6 and 10.3 psi, but those are the high and lows. The AEM map sensor is really sensitive and there is no averaging so its picking up valve opening and closing events.

Get an unlocked calibration from boost button and there will be trouble in River City. Only running about 9psi boost to get into the 12's on stock motor. Problem with Boost Button opening up my rev limiter will be duty cycle on injectors. At high pressure at only 6200 rpm limit, 30# injectors can make a lot more power (though you are really working for that power) than if you rev to 7k or 8k.

Ondonti
06-20-2016, 12:42 AM
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160515_142900.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160515_142900.jpg.html)
Picked the unit up from some of these Canadians at the PNW FWD Mopar Meet in Goldendale WA (located at the WW1 memorial).
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160527_171856.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160527_171856.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160529_204713.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160529_204713.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160604_124444.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160604_124444.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160611_172936.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160611_172936.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160611_184425.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160611_184425.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160612_021401.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160612_021401.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160616_165207.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160616_165207.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160618_145424.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160618_145424.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160618_190238.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160618_190238.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015659.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015659.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015715.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015715.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015740.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015740.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015806.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/20160619_015806.jpg.html)

Ondonti
06-20-2016, 01:00 AM
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/3rd%20gear%20pull%20174kpa%20max%20165%20avg%20zoo m%20.png (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/AEM%20FIC%20piggyback%20controller/3rd%20gear%20pull%20174kpa%20max%20165%20avg%20zoo m%20.png.html)

Vigo
06-20-2016, 10:46 AM
I feel vindicated even though i've done literally nothing with an FIC besides hold it and talk about it on the forums.

Aries_Turbo
06-20-2016, 08:59 PM
cool.

i wonder if going over all the connections for injector #6 might help the CEL.

or swap injector 5/6 wiring to see if the problem moves with the FIC Channel thats controlling that injector....

Brian

Force Fed Mopar
06-21-2016, 01:34 AM
So what is this doing, exactly?

Aries_Turbo
06-21-2016, 10:18 PM
So what is this doing, exactly?

this box allows you to intercept the timing signals from the distributor and feeds retarded signals to the SBEC (like when you get into boost or force feed it nitrous)

it also allows you to intercept the injector signals and feed it higher pulsewidth signals than stock once you get it into boost.

it also allows you to intercept the TPS signal and feed it a WOT signal as soon as the FIC sees boost....

basically rob, you need one. lol.

the FIC has its own map sensor. it just relays the stock timing signals and injector signals till you tell it to based on things like the map sensor signals.

stock drivability in vacuum and control of fuel and timing once in boost. its really pretty slick.

Brian

WarlockSyno
06-21-2016, 10:24 PM
Sounds like pure magic. So, in theory, this could work on any engine?

Force Fed Mopar
06-22-2016, 09:06 AM
this box allows you to intercept the timing signals from the distributor and feeds retarded signals to the SBEC (like when you get into boost or force feed it nitrous)

it also allows you to intercept the injector signals and feed it higher pulsewidth signals than stock once you get it into boost.

it also allows you to intercept the TPS signal and feed it a WOT signal as soon as the FIC sees boost....

basically rob, you need one. lol.

the FIC has its own map sensor. it just relays the stock timing signals and injector signals till you tell it to based on things like the map sensor signals.

stock drivability in vacuum and control of fuel and timing once in boost. its really pretty slick.

Brian

And you can adjust all the parameters?

I really wish we could just get a turbonator V6 code hashed out.

bakes
06-22-2016, 10:12 AM
Maybe not the Rev , speed limiter and cruise control .

Aries_Turbo
06-22-2016, 11:28 AM
yeah what he said^^^^

you cant raise the rev limiter but you can adjust fuel and spark timing and you can fake out the O2's and you can fake out the tps and stuff like that.

its not for all engines obviously like something that has ecu support like our turbo ecu's but for something like the 3.0L that has limited support, its pretty good.

Brian

Vigo
06-22-2016, 12:27 PM
If you move the rev limiter (and speed limiter if you want) in the SBEC you can basically do everything else in the FIC.

WarlockSyno
06-22-2016, 12:49 PM
Hmm. I might have to try this out on my 3.3/3.8 later.

Ondonti
06-26-2016, 04:05 AM
cool.

i wonder if going over all the connections for injector #6 might help the CEL.

or swap injector 5/6 wiring to see if the problem moves with the FIC Channel thats controlling that injector....

Brian

Wonder where in the line I make the switch. I wish someone could tell be the definition of that injector 6 circuit fault. For all i know it's faulting all and listing one.had to troubleshoot when you don't know the probkem beyond Mr red light.

I don't know about AEM FIC6 for nitrous. Megasquirt can pull timing on the hit. Maybe FIC8. Don't care to look it up.
To get Lozier's car up to its original intent the rev limiter must go up. That's where all the easy power is.

I don't think it's honest to day stock drivability remains. The tip In problem I have seeks to be a common issue. I did find an interesting explanation from an AEM tech.

Aries_Turbo
06-26-2016, 02:48 PM
Wonder where in the line I make the switch. I wish someone could tell be the definition of that injector 6 circuit fault. For all i know it's faulting all and listing one.had to troubleshoot when you don't know the probkem beyond Mr red light.

I don't know about AEM FIC6 for nitrous. Megasquirt can pull timing on the hit. Maybe FIC8. Don't care to look it up.
To get Lozier's car up to its original intent the rev limiter must go up. That's where all the easy power is.

I don't think it's honest to day stock drivability remains. The tip In problem I have seeks to be a common issue. I did find an interesting explanation from an AEM tech.

i thought they had individual injector drivers and codes in your car....

how did you get the code? key dance or scanner?

id move pins on the SBEC. and then move pins on the FIC plug to see.

oh i didnt realize that the tip in was that bad. is it a bog?

does the AEM dampen the TPS signal so the stock ecu doesnt apply its accel enrichment?

Brian

Ondonti
06-26-2016, 09:16 PM
i thought they had individual injector drivers and codes in your car....

how did you get the code? key dance or scanner?

id move pins on the SBEC. and then move pins on the FIC plug to see.

oh i didnt realize that the tip in was that bad. is it a bog?

does the AEM dampen the TPS signal so the stock ecu doesnt apply its accel enrichment?

Brian

Scanner to get the code. It wants to give more information but then doesn't when I hit proceed. I have 6 drivers and the FIC has 6 of its own injector drivers.

Possible there is delay in the conversion process of the Analog in and out but I wouldn't think much... It doesn't do anything anything odd when watching it on the AEM programming.
Its a full on shake the car misfire with leanout on the wideband. Seems like a well known issue since they added an accel enrichment function on the last update they ever did.

I can't do much right now because the walbro seems to be shorting out internally. Seems like the reason I was suffering spark blowout recently was the pump going out and both the pump and coil receiving power from the same dedicated relay. I took the coil and put it on its own relay with just the low power draw AEM and ignition came back to normal. Then blew amp AGC gold fuse on the freeway driving to work. Shorted the fuse with a wire to get to the parking lot, only melted it twice (18 guage jumper on the 10 guage wiring). Glad I had that wire just in case.

Vigo
06-27-2016, 12:15 PM
If injector power is coming from ASD as well maybe its possible that the sagging voltage on ASD circuit has something to do with your injector code.

lightbulb010
06-28-2016, 12:50 PM
I don't know if this has any bearing to the discussion, but my 87' 3.0l SMEC(low impedance injectors) seemingly had a max impedance on the injector circuit as well as the more obvious minimum. I tried to use injectors from a 00' dakota 3.9l on my van and the ECU killed the engine after a few seconds of running(and starting perfectly I will add) with an accompanying "power loss" light and injector code. These injectors ohmed out at 12 ohms(they are pink if it matters). To me, this means that something like the FIC needs to closely match the original injector impedance. At least for an SMEC, that is.

Ondonti
06-30-2016, 11:47 AM
If injector power is coming from ASD as well maybe its possible that the sagging voltage on ASD circuit has something to do with your injector code.
Simple feed wire slowly shorting out more.and more. Fixed. Not as much duty cycle left as I would have liked. 68% peak duty cycle stock. Not sure if i want to go 85% or 90% though my GenIII 4 hole injectors might be more tolerant. I can't remember my research there.

I don't know if this has any bearing to the discussion, but my 87' 3.0l SMEC(low impedance injectors) seemingly had a max impedance on the injector circuit as well as the more obvious minimum. I tried to use injectors from a 00' dakota 3.9l on my van and the ECU killed the engine after a few seconds of running(and starting perfectly I will add) with an accompanying "power loss" light and injector code. These injectors ohmed out at 12 ohms(they are pink if it matters). To me, this means that something like the FIC needs to closely match the original injector impedance. At least for an SMEC, that is.

I was thinking the FIC must have to spoof something. No options software wise.

Ondonti
07-04-2016, 05:49 PM
Been doing research on injector duty cycle as well as doing math for my fuel capacity. I made a spreadsheet to automatic populate fuel pressure per pound of boost up to 25 psi for whatever rate of gain I want to select. According to an employee at injector dynamics modern generation iii injectors ( car has 4 hole modern injectors as of a few months ago due to a failure) often have a recovery time of only 0.75 millaseconds. Older injectors often had a minimum recovery of 2.2 milliseconds and based upon old fashioned low rpm rev limits, r3comm3nded duty cycles were 80%. 0.75 millaseconds at 12,000 r.p.m is still 92 percent duty cycle and at only 6200 rpm I can go up over 95 percent duty cycle and still give recovery time for the injectors. Anything beyond that the injector will not discharge fully and add a little bit extra feel because it opens too easily.

I tried 3:1 rate of gain on regulator which required finding a BEGI restrictor hidden inside a hose in a box of hoses and cutting that hose open when found. Must have forgot what its for.
3:1 didnt work as I had to use all my duty cycle headroom too get back to proper mid/high 11 AFR. Was already at 92% duty on a spike at 9psi boost and was spending time at 88%. Will try for 4:1 rate of gain but that will only give me maybe 16psi before pump pressure Is too high for reliability. Was shooting for 20psi+ at stock rpm limit. So what this means is I need some 60# injectors if I increase the rev limiter or want more boost.

Ondonti
07-05-2016, 07:30 PM
4:1 ratio works enough that I could raise boost but now that I am using map based enrichment m, the noise Ian the Map signal is killing me. Can't have something going from 170k pa to 149kpa. That's equivalent to pressure change of 3 psi up and down in about 0.050 seconds. Not good for fuel trims that fit higher as boost increase s. The fuel trims are all over and this must cause some very leans combustion events.

I have reference at the end of the ported factory I take manifold. Next try is rederenced to throttle body neck on plenum. Then I will try lawnmower fuel filter as an expansion chamber/damper and last a restrictor before the lawnmower fuel filter. Also considering grounding thr FIC directly to battery in case there is some sort of backfeed? Possible since this map sensor is terrible in boost bit not otherwise. Might also have to take apart the fic inner case and zip tie map connections and check the little filter/damper it comes woth.

Aries_Turbo
07-05-2016, 09:43 PM
i wonder if some of the noise is the difference in signal ground vs power ground.

Ondonti
07-06-2016, 12:44 AM
i wonder if some of the noise is the difference in signal ground vs power ground.

How does that work. Right now the fic is grounded to the main harness ground point for the factory ECU and other wiring. The issue is mainly Rising when I hit full Boost at high RPMs over 4,500 then it gets really choppy and the fuel trims get very choppy going from let's say 24% added fuel down to 14%. I feel because I'm changing between cells which are increasing by large amounts since this is a non-turbo calibration this causes wild fluctuations in cylinder cylinder air fuel ratio. The oxygen sensor cannot pick this up because it takes an average of everything.

That is scary which is why I think the fic needs to have a perfectly smooth map signal over anything else in order to be safe for a non turbo calibration. For a stock turbo car you are just making fine touch changes so noise means less.

I just ran the vacuum signal to the neck of the 3.0 plenum and added a small restrictor that I got from AutoZone and also a small fuel filter after the restrictor. Response time does not seem to be delayed from watching the guage but a datalog would have told the truth. I have taken a small pull but not a full high RPM pull to test this. It was smoother up to 4500 RPMs where i had to let off. I guess I can still try to put a larger fuel filter on if I do have noise persisting. I will report when I know more. No test of ground.

lightbulb010
07-07-2016, 10:02 AM
If you use shielded wire for the MAP wires it should help reduce electrical noise if the noise is coming from crosstalk between wires. You could also try putting a small capacitor between the signal wire and the ground wire to "dampen" the signal. Sounds like you are thinking the fluctuations are coming from the pneumatic side of things. In that case, as RPM increases the amount of fluctuation would decrease unless the sensor is EXTREMELY sensitive. If you have access to an oscilloscope you can probe each of the MAP sensor wires to see where the noise is coming from and where it is manifesting itself. My guess is that it's coming from the ignition system. If you discover that the noise is at the same frequency as the ignition pulses try putting a choke in series with the coil or ground the MAP sensor to a better ground. If you move the ground for the MAP sensor it would be best to use the same location to ground the FIC itself so that both have the same ground reference. If the ground reference is different there will be an offset in the pressure reading.

Ondonti
07-07-2016, 01:27 PM
If you use shielded wire for the MAP wires it should help reduce electrical noise if the noise is coming from crosstalk between wires. You could also try putting a small capacitor between the signal wire and the ground wire to "dampen" the signal. Sounds like you are thinking the fluctuations are coming from the pneumatic side of things. In that case, as RPM increases the amount of fluctuation would decrease unless the sensor is EXTREMELY sensitive. If you have access to an oscilloscope you can probe each of the MAP sensor wires to see where the noise is coming from and where it is manifesting itself. My guess is that it's coming from the ignition system. If you discover that the noise is at the same frequency as the ignition pulses try putting a choke in series with the coil or ground the MAP sensor to a better ground. If you move the ground for the MAP sensor it would be best to use the same location to ground the FIC itself so that both have the same ground reference. If the ground reference is different there will be an offset in the pressure reading.

I have a ground stud installed aerospace style at the stock driver frame rail common ground and I added the FIC ground to that spot. Internal map sensor so bo wires. Guess it's time for direct battery ground to avoid the coil.

Edit, I looked and I have a large guage stereo wire going from the common ground stud to the battery. Not sure how moving the ground 6" onto the main terminal would help....???

lightbulb010
07-08-2016, 12:30 PM
Is the ground stud electrically connected to the frame rail or is it isolated by something and just mounted there? Could the noise be coming through the frame? If it's not electrically connected to the frame, moving the grounds to the battery probably won't help unless the noise is coming through something else that's also connected to that stud. It might be best to try and prevent the noise entirely rather than avoid it. You could try to use a choke on the coil(or whatever the actual noise source is) the FIC power wires or both. You can find a suitable choke inside a computer power supply or you could get a power filter made for a CB radio/car stereo etc. They are usually just a little plastic box containing a choke and a capacitor. If you decide to use a power filter on the coil it would be best to remove the capacitor because it could increase dwell depending on the size of it. The choke is there to help reduce high frequency noise from things like the ignition system and injectors. The capacitor is there to smooth out spikes and low frequency noise like that which can be created by switches and relays turning on and off. If you have ever had a car stereo that thumps when you hit the brakes and whines at a pitch directly related to your engine RPM you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't neglect the ground connections for the other systems either. Make sure the connections for the offending noise source are good ones.

With all that I have said, it's hard to say where the fluctuation is actually coming from without directly measuring it in some way.

Aries_Turbo
07-10-2016, 12:40 AM
The sensors are kept on a separate power system (5v regulated from the sbec) with its own dedicated ground for those sensors (black with blue stripe) .

All the power driver components have their own power feeds from the battery and dedicated ground (black with white stripe) as these create more electrical noise from switching higher current loads.

The aem fic is reading sensors and driving injectors so I'm surprised it doesn't have more separate power/grounds for its internal systems.

Brian


How does that work. Right now the fic is grounded to the main harness ground point for the factory ECU and other wiring. The issue is mainly Rising when I hit full Boost at high RPMs over 4,500 then it gets really choppy and the fuel trims get very choppy going from let's say 24% added fuel down to 14%. I feel because I'm changing between cells which are increasing by large amounts since this is a non-turbo calibration this causes wild fluctuations in cylinder cylinder air fuel ratio. The oxygen sensor cannot pick this up because it takes an average of everything.

That is scary which is why I think the fic needs to have a perfectly smooth map signal over anything else in order to be safe for a non turbo calibration. For a stock turbo car you are just making fine touch changes so noise means less.

I just ran the vacuum signal to the neck of the 3.0 plenum and added a small restrictor that I got from AutoZone and also a small fuel filter after the restrictor. Response time does not seem to be delayed from watching the guage but a datalog would have told the truth. I have taken a small pull but not a full high RPM pull to test this. It was smoother up to 4500 RPMs where i had to let off. I guess I can still try to put a larger fuel filter on if I do have noise persisting. I will report when I know more. No test of ground.

Ondonti
07-14-2016, 12:49 AM
Is the ground stud electrically connected to the frame rail or is it isolated by something and just mounted there? Could the noise be coming through the frame? If it's not electrically connected to the frame, moving the grounds to the battery probably won't help unless the noise is coming through something else that's also connected to that stud. It might be best to try and prevent the noise entirely rather than avoid it. You could try to use a choke on the coil(or whatever the actual noise source is) the FIC power wires or both. You can find a suitable choke inside a computer power supply or you could get a power filter made for a CB radio/car stereo etc. They are usually just a little plastic box containing a choke and a capacitor. If you decide to use a power filter on the coil it would be best to remove the capacitor because it could increase dwell depending on the size of it. The choke is there to help reduce high frequency noise from things like the ignition system and injectors. The capacitor is there to smooth out spikes and low frequency noise like that which can be created by switches and relays turning on and off. If you have ever had a car stereo that thumps when you hit the brakes and whines at a pitch directly related to your engine RPM you know exactly what I'm talking about. Don't neglect the ground connections for the other systems either. Make sure the connections for the offending noise source are good ones.

With all that I have said, it's hard to say where the fluctuation is actually coming from without directly measuring it in some way.You guys know more about electronics by far but factory wiring gin an sbecii car has a direct ground for almost everything ecu related on the driver fender. The only other ground is opposite fender. I
My ground style grounds directly to the fender just like the factory screw with serrated washer. The fic has 3 ground wires and I have these tapped into one larger guage wire which leads to this common ground. I believe there are 3 ground wires only because each pin has an amperage limitation. I learned this from the megasquirt group where the megasquirt has 6 or so ground wires even on a megasquirt 2 because each pin can only hold so many amps.

I added a 2nd restrictor near the first and a 25% larger filter chamber. I only see 3kpa movement at most up above 4600 and rock steady before that rpm.
I don't know what this means for electronic noise.


The sensors are kept on a separate power system (5v regulated from the sbec) with its own dedicated ground for those sensors (black with blue stripe) .

All the power driver components have their own power feeds from the battery and dedicated ground (black with white stripe) as these create more electrical noise from switching higher current loads.

The aem fic is reading sensors and driving injectors so I'm surprised it doesn't have more separate power/grounds for its internal systems.

Brian
I just bought some 60# Siemens injectors because I couldnt find any extra fuel for more than a few psi boost. Now I will set rate of gain very small. Should be fun. Betting clutch is the next weak link.4 puck with a 250k or 300k mile stock 3.0 plate
.Btw stuck on phone still unless I visit parents. Zzzz

lightbulb010
07-14-2016, 10:30 AM
Glad you got it sorted out:thumb:. Where do you think the fluctuations were coming from? I'm assuming they must be from the intake valves opening and as the engine revs up and sucks in more air the pressure in your intake fluctuates wildly at a high rate of speed. I can't think of where else the fluctuation would be coming from unless there was a leak somewhere. It would be interesting to see if the same fluctuation occurs with a larger intake and/or TB.

Can't wait to see the results with the bigger injectors. I like the idea of this FIC. Almost makes me wish I hadn't already gone through the trouble of rewiring my van for the Megasquirt. Good luck!

Ondonti
07-18-2016, 09:53 PM
Glad you got it sorted out:thumb:. Where do you think the fluctuations were coming from? I'm assuming they must be from the intake valves opening and as the engine revs up and sucks in more air the pressure in your intake fluctuates wildly at a high rate of speed. I can't think of where else the fluctuation would be coming from unless there was a leak somewhere. It would be interesting to see if the same fluctuation occurs with a larger intake and/or TB.

Can't wait to see the results with the bigger injectors. I like the idea of this FIC. Almost makes me wish I hadn't already gone through the trouble of rewiring my van for the Megasquirt. Good luck!

I don't know why they happen at 4600, possibly resonance in the intake manifold. Remember the "torque tube" in early intake manifolds and the divider in later model intake manifolds. I moved the reference from the rear of plenum to the neck so I dont understand. Car certainly doesn't appear to have bottlenecks.
I wish I could say that electrical noise was not at fault but I am not really sure. I just don't see how the grounds can get much better. I do understand that the restrictor stuff is usually used on cars that have poor idle qualities like ITB setups or rotaries.

Injectors arrived. I need to find a place that can repair my old modified TIII pressure plate. I have a feeling I will be blowing through my clutch soon and not be able to race.

Ondonti
07-19-2016, 01:01 AM
Saving my thoughts here cause I had real internet for my laptop while visiting parents. Researched what I need for the injector swap. Going back home tomorrow.

Plan of attack is to set rate of gain with new injectors to 2.5:1 rate of gain so that at 25psi boost, my fuel pressure would be at 98.5 when starting at 36. That will give me more headroom on pump flow. Not sure how much power it will make, especially since its going to get some bumpsticks in the future. I have my base pressure down real low and I might undo that and instead mess with the injector delay function on the 30# injectors trying to get the OEM ecu back to 0% fuel adaption. Then I have to figure out what I want to do with the 60# for the lag factor. Not sure if I want the 60# injectors at 0% correction or what. I can modify that 3 ways. Changing base AND by messing with lag factors AND by changing fueling correction table. I think I would prefer keeping around 30# base pressure and then add in the full -50% fueling (should be twice as big as the 30 so -50% fueling....) and then see what happens. If its too lean or too rich, I can tweak. These injectors might not idle @ 14.7:1 AFR because I see they get very sketchy at 1.5ms pulsewidths. Lose all linearity and flow drops to zero real quick.

AEM FIC injector lag factor simply means how much of the incoming pulsewidth to ignore when calculating the fueling changes you have in your tables. So for a value of 0% change, nothing happens. With 1% change it only changes the PW beyond the lag time by 1%.
Lame that they don't tell you this information ANYWHERE. Even the techs often incorrectly answered questions on this topic years ago.

All this stuff, base pressure, rate of gain, injector lag, injector scaling needs to be locked in before I start datalogging and dialing in the fuel maps.

One thing I haven't messed with is being able to change the load bins. I don't want all the load bins out of boost because thats almost always closed loop. I need more resolution in boost because my fueling % numbers change too much on a naturally aspirated ECU (since I am adding ALL the fuel for boost on top of what the ecu already commands instead of just correcting the amount of fuel provided to account for modifications).

Aries_Turbo
07-19-2016, 04:20 PM
i see you are still using a rising rate regulator.

any reason to add fuel mechanically rather than all in the FIC via pulsewidth?

Brian

Vigo
07-19-2016, 09:57 PM
FIC can only add/subtract PW within a range afaik so outside that range you have to do something in addition.

Ondonti
07-20-2016, 08:20 AM
Did a little more adjustment at 3.5psi boost and played with acceleration settings. Feeling better but haven't fully tested tip in.

I am realizing another serious problem. The larger I go on injector the less resolution I have for fine tuning. Doubling injector size halved my accuracy. Hoping I am able to get fueling close enough to mid 11s as I move up the chart. If I can't hit where I want on AFR i have to go richer. My 3 psi load line is at -45 to -43% fueling right now so I have a lit of fuel left. The auto populated numbers when I created a new table based on doubling injector size show +54% fuel at 25 psi right now which is not possible duty cycle wise. Hoping those numbers up to are able to go lower as I keep bumping boost and analyzing datalogs. I think my limit is around 35% added fuel if my stock duty cycle is 68% peak on on a WOT pull. That would put put me at 92% duty cycle, a safe stop point. I think 25 psi will end up within my fueling limits. My bigger concern is that adding cams or other mods will take me beyond the Injectors capacity at high rpms.

Ondonti
07-24-2016, 01:25 PM
Up to 5.5psi from 3.5psi. Trying to get boost to exact table levels. So far I have only been removing fuel so that's good. I don't have enough load cells perfected to see a trend on fueling as boost goes up so I can make better guesses and skip some load points

Vigo
07-24-2016, 09:12 PM
I think 25 psi will end up within my fueling limits.

Well, that's one major goal hit. Big cams and rpm imply MORE than tripling stock power. I think expecting a piggyback to handle that is ambitious. I'm not against trying until you figure out where its limits are but in the end if you are paving a path for others to follow i think the FIC will fit almost everyone's builds who are not going for huge power and the standalone stuff should be left for the VERY ambitious projects.

Ondonti
07-27-2016, 10:15 PM
Well, that's one major goal hit. Big cams and rpm imply MORE than tripling stock power. I think expecting a piggyback to handle that is ambitious. I'm not against trying until you figure out where its limits are but in the end if you are paving a path for others to follow i think the FIC will fit almost everyone's builds who are not going for huge power and the standalone stuff should be left for the VERY ambitious projects.

I have the car tuned to a full 10psi boost and the theoretical trims at 25 psi have dropped to +19% which is well within duty cycle limits. Now it's a matter of not having enough fuel for a big cam. 8000 rpms will really close up time to open injectors. That might force rpm limiter lower or lower boost. FIC has no limiter and I dont want to send calibrations back and forth messing with rev limiter. Cams and dry double edge sword. More air at high rpms and more total rpms.

It is possible total fuel at 25 psi is +10% which would give me up to +30% at a 88% duty. I think just the rpm change eats that up alone to 8000 rpms. 8000rpms or 25 psi boost....

Force Fed Mopar
07-27-2016, 11:40 PM
What cams do you have?

Ondonti
07-28-2016, 07:48 AM
What cams do you have?

I have the old cams I ran years ago plus my idea to shim lifters since no other options exist. I have a different design for threaded adjustable lifters but I don't want to deal with it. Planning on a bigger cam for the Junkyard but possibly the old cam is too large for my needs. Never had them on the dyno over 6200 rpms to see what they do and when they fall off. I don't have a moderate cam grind In my possession.

BTW the injector code is due to using the wrong AEM FIC. They had to create a special Chrysler version 30-1913 which had some Injector flyback mods. This is for all sbec 2 or later Chryslers.
Regarding throttle tip in problems,it is possible that I have too much delay on my tps. Datalog I looked at last night shows map signal being ahead of tps. Might not be a fiemware issue. Tuning the accel table still doesn't make sense to me due to lack of Instructions beyond beyond a vague forum post by AEM where they failed to answer follow up questions about what delta TPS means in AEM. That is the sensitivity setting....

!!!!!!!!Right now my most pressing issue is noise in the AFR signal as the AEM FIC6 sees it. I data logged both the MTXL and FIC6 and there there is noise with the engine running that is exactly the same when the engine is turned off. FIC6 constantly goes up and down about 0.4 AFR which makes reading datalogs not fun. I had been tuning with the high points in mind which throws off everything else (too rich). I don't want to datalog 2 systems and compare for each pull. Turning the radio off doesn't help.

Ondonti
10-31-2016, 08:20 PM
BTW this motor ate a piston when running about 220 degrees sitting in line forever and being stupid not turning the fan on. This was at a no prep drags/rolls airport event near Seattle. Car did well but the first hot dig pass hurting a new boltons SS camaro but had a few hiccups due to heat induced detonation. Cold 1/3 mile roll perfect against an rs4 Audi. Hit speed limiter at the end. Then 220 degree dig race against supercharged SRT8 Jeep turned out poorly. I thought about backing out when I noticed the temp at the burnout box but he had called me out.
Eventually upload videos.

I swapped rings to new piston as they survived. Didn't clean out intake and a piece of piston was up there and fouled that cylinder near idle on first drive. Picked and blew out debris while inspecting with an Android phone endoscope and now daily driving without taking the head off again.

Timing is a bit unsafe at high block temps and boost is around 13psi so the car picked up a lot. I was shooting for more and safer boost but I had a battle with misfire due to a failed cap that I only fixed just before the race.

Ondonti
03-24-2017, 05:22 PM
Lost hard drive on laptop so this car has been stuck in it's current tune. Was really wanting to push her a few times this year before I go back to working on the Junkyard. Still don't have any engine mods or a higher rev limiter which is disappointing since I know she is so corked up.
Not sure if my low load tune is worse now or diaphragm in regulator is failing again. BEGI really frustrates me when it comes to communication. Gave up last year getting new material and made one out of neoprene glove.

Nearly all real fun potential is currently ruined by stock rev limiter

Force Fed Mopar
03-24-2017, 07:17 PM
Nearly all real fun potential is currently ruined by stock rev limiter

This is one of the first things me and wowzer will be trying to identify in the 3.0 cals. And soon...