Ta Da!!! Sort of..**UPDATED**

[85_600]

Well, after working for about 6 hours total time, the head is ready to come off.

I know, 6 hours and the head isn’t off YET!!?:o

This is me..the guy that took 4 hours to put a wheel barrel together. My fathers neighbor, Tony, is the V8 Mopar guy so this is a learning experience for BOTH of us.

The one VERY GOOD thing I learned today: When removing bolts or nuts, if possible, when the item is removed, thread the bolt/nut back from where it came from so you don’t loose it!! :thumb:

The only things left to do Thursday are:

Sawsall the downpipe (bolts got rounded off)
Sawsall the turbo support bracket
Unbolt the oil drain back tube
Release the fuel pressure

Then the head comes off.

Tony knows a guy who KNOWS his stuff about heads and valves and what not. The head will be going to him when it’s removed so I’ll get an answer in the next week or two if there is a problem that WASN’T apparent when we get the head off.

I’ll also know what’s up with the #2 piston (I hope) when the head is removed. If not I think I’ll have a bit more work to do pulling at least that piston. :o

Here are a few pics from today’s adventure:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0053.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0058.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0057.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0052.JPG



OH, and here is Tony’s car:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0060.JPG


AND, his time slip on a auto with a manual valve body. This was at Norwalk Raceway:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0062.JPG


More to come Thursday and maybe Friday.

[BIG PSI]

Looks good so far Paul,

Look forward to meeting you tommorrow.
I went out and cleaned up the HEMI car today, so it will look good when you show up.

Chuck

[85_600]

Looks good so far Paul,

Look forward to meeting you tommorrow.
I went out and cleaned up the HEMI car today, so it will look good when you show up.

Chuck

I'm sure my son Devan will LOVE it. He went crazy over the ones at the Auto Show.:nod:

[supercrackerbox]

My first head gasket swap took three days, and that was the 'quick' lift and swap method. I'd never wrenched on a car before in my life. I'd like to think that by now I could pull it off in an afternoon, but I've never had a blown headgasket since, so whatever I'm doing in there isn't quite that simple.

But nearly 10 years later, that car is still a great daily driver. :)

[85_600]

Got the head off today!! YEA!!!! Only after cutting various hoses with a pair of pruning shears!

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0077.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0078.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0065.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0066.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0067.JPG
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0064.JPG

[Spraynlog]

That head looks pretty clean on the inside. Did you find out what was up with the low compression?

[85_600]

That head looks pretty clean on the inside. Did you find out what was up with the low compression?

Heh, Nope :confused:

All the cylinders look perfect. No scoring, no unusual marks, nothing. Even the pistons look good - no play either down or side to side. Very tight, almost like new.

The turbo, however, I wish it didn't have the oil and dirt where it does - RIGHT where the outlet for the turbo meets the intake - Seals are most likely bad:mad:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0076.JPG

Looks like I've opened a can of worms - no turning back now...

[BIG PSI]

Look at the number one intake valve, it looks like part of the edge is chipped away.

Chuck

PS---Thanks for the (I Trader) update, Paul.

[unluckyty]

Our pistons like to crack between the ring lands, usually not notiable unless you remove the piston from the cylinder to inspect it.

Greg

[Turbo_Rampage]

Heh, Nope :confused:

All the cylinders look perfect. No scoring, no unusual marks, nothing. Even the pistons look good - no play either down or side to side. Very tight, almost like new.

The turbo, however, I wish it didn't have the oil and dirt where it does - RIGHT where the outlet for the turbo meets the intake - Seals are most likely bad:mad:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0076.JPG

Looks like I've opened a can of worms - no turning back now...


I would make sure that the oil buildup didn't come from excessive blow by through the PVC system over the years. The old suck through setups always had vacuum at the TB so it was able to pull crankcase vapours even at boost.. right? I would check the turbo for shaft end play while you have the head off. Both my old TI motors looked like that at that intake to compressor hose, and everywhere else from oil leaks!

Just a thought

[85_600]

Both my old TI motors looked like that at that intake to compressor hose, and everywhere else from oil leaks!

Just a thought

And your seals were fine? I do hope mine are still good. For having 46k miles I thought it would be doing alot better than it is.

[Turbo_Rampage]

I bought both motors that came from "good" running cars, so i guess they were fine (i never personally ran the motors) My guess would be to remove the TB off of the intake, and see if their is an oil residue just after the TB blade. (remove the 3 bolts that are on the intake, and loosen off the hose clamp, to remove the TB) I think this would be a good way of telling if theirs lots of blow by from the PVC, because you will have oil buildup before the turbo compressor... Did the car smoke at idle? in boost? when letting off the gas? did it boost good?

[TopDollar69]

That looks like a felpro headgasket.

[supercrackerbox]

That looks like a felpro headgasket.

Wow, good catch.

[85_600]

Did the car smoke at idle? in boost? when letting off the gas? did it boost good?

No smoking...It boosted just fine as well. That's the craziness about this - low compression in one cylinder, lower-ish compression in 2 adjacent cylinders, but yet no oil in the coolant and vice verse - everything was clean (fluids that is).

[Darkapollo]

well there is your problem right there! the head isnt attached! youve got to bolt that thing on before you will get compression :thumb:

Check the valves for play. Pistons, rings, and gasgets are not the ONLY things that make for bad compression. If your valve seats are bad then you will have compression issues too.

[85_600]

well there is your problem right there! the head isnt attached! youve got to bolt that thing on before you will get compression :thumb:

Check the valves for play. Pistons, rings, and gasgets are not the ONLY things that make for bad compression. If your valve seats are bad then you will have compression issues too.

If the guy that is checking over the head/valves for me sees any apparent problems, AND he thinks that would make the compression as low as it was, I won't mess with that one piston. However, if there is ANY doubt, like, "...with these valves you wouldn't have lost that much compression"...that kind of comment then yea, I'm pulling that one piston.

[Darkapollo]

Ive seen cases where the valve seats are so crusted with carbon that they no longer close fully.

[Lee'sdaytona]

If the guy that is checking over the head/valves for me sees any apparent problems, AND he thinks that would make the compression as low as it was, I won't mess with that one piston. However, if there is ANY doubt, like, "...with these valves you wouldn't have lost that much compression"...that kind of comment then yea, I'm pulling that one piston.
Geeze here we go again with the similarities! Are you sure you didn't take apart MY 2.2 engine...oh I guess not...its still in my driveway:o When I pulled the head on that, my #2 cylinder with the 90 psi reading looked perfect...and I know my head is good....I never thought about it cracking on the ring landing...that explains it though...Good luck with your build. The hardest part is over, beleive me
-Lee

[GLHS$%^]

If you can, have your head pressure tested, so that way at least you know you won't have to pull it again if it turns out to be your valve seals... I once had a blown headgasket, and I attributed it to the low compression, but later found out I also had a damaged valve which was cause low compression on cyl 1.

[5sp. mini]

way to go looks good just send the head to the guy and have him redo it if there a problem i have a spare head , to use . just pull the pan and remove that cyc. / piston . go daddy go. lol alan

[85_600]

Just a daily update:

I got the turbo, exhaust and intake manifolds all off today. All that's left before the head goes to be examined is the cam.

Any pointers on taking it off? Any trouble spots or is this pretty much a "piece of cake" removal? Looks to be that way but I just wanted to check.

Thanks!
Paul

[Clay]

yeah, just loosen the cam caps slowely as the cam is under pressure. Start in the center and work your way towards the outsides letting the pressure of evenly across the entire cam. Make sure the caps go back on where they came off.

Also, if the head is going to get inspected, why not leave the cam on?? They may need it, or want it on to check things out.

[85_600]

yeah, just loosen the cam caps slowely as the cam is under pressure. Start in the center and work your way towards the outsides letting the pressure of evenly across the entire cam. Make sure the caps go back on where they came off.

Also, if the head is going to get inspected, why not leave the cam on?? They may need it, or want it on to check things out.

I wondered that too but not until I read your post:(

I'm getting it inspected for free so maybe that's the reason - no extra work to be done...I'll ask the guy that's taking it to see.

I "was" going to engrave the caps with a #1, #2, .....so I didn't mess up where they go and here I look at the top of the caps and they already have numbers on them:thumb:

[85_600]

Alright, some more progress on my 600.

My fathers neighbor was able to get in touch with the guy he was going to have look/examine the head from the 600, BUT, the guy suggested this trick and I want to get your opinions on this, from a mechanics point of view.

The neighbor guy, Tony, said his friend suggested taking the cam off, flipping the head over to see the top of the combustion chambers. After this, fill the top of the chamber with alcohol and then look at the intake and exhaust ports for any leakage of the alcohol.

Here are my findings:

#1 = 150 psi chamber: Exhaust = No leak, Intake = Minor leakage
#2 = 90 psi chamber: Exhaust = Yes, Within a minute it started leaking. Intake = Yes, the same.
#3 = 120 psi chamber: Exhaust = Minor leakage. Intake = very little leakage.
#4 = 125 psi chamber: Exhaust = No leakage. Intake = No leakage.

So, what’s the verdict, if that’s possible to do here: Valves? If there is any doubt I’ll pull #2 piston. I can do this but it will add to my budget for this which at this point, due to my recent Saturn repair, is non existent:(

Any help?

Thanks,
Paul

[Lee'sdaytona]

hmm....well if there is a crack in the head between the valves, thats normal. If thats causing the leak or not I can't tell. But knowing that you had 90 psi on the one that leaks the most, it appears you have found your problem. But It may not be a bad idea to pull the piston to inspect the ring landings...
-Lee

[turbovanman²]

Well you definately have an issue with the 90 psi cylinder and personally, it looks like a cracked piston. Burn't valves read higher or lower but cracked pistons tend to hover around 90 psi. Have you done the leakdown test yet? That will tell you instantly with no guessing.

[85_600]

Just a short update and a couple questions (maybe)...

Since I have the cam off, I was wondering something here. I marked the cam with a marker to line it up with the sprocket. Now, what happens if, after I clean up the cam (I got some dust on the lobes :o ) I loose those marks. Is there still someway to tell which position the cam needs to be in for it to match the rest of the motor for timing sakes?

The more I think about this project the more I both want to finish it and I don't want to. I don't because of the time involved and the money but I do want to complete it just for doing so and saying "YES, I took apart a motor and put it back together...(Sorry, just a little rant and rave..:o )

Any ideas on the cam location though??

Thanks,
Paul

[yogurt_slinger]

Come on Paul.. this is easy stuff, the answers to most of your questions are all right there in front of you at thedodgegarage

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/timing_belt.html

the cam has a keyway which matches the cam sprocket..

[Clay]

The cam will only bolt to the sprocket in one position.

Think about it, the sprocket has to be in the same spot on EVERY cam otherwise there would be not standard way to time the engine, as everyone would be different.

On to the head thing, Im thinking you have a head/valve issue. See if you can rent/borrow a valve spring compressor and remove the valves from the head. This might give you a better look at why your loosing pressure in that cylinder.

clay

[85_600]

The cam will only bolt to the sprocket in one position.

Think about it, the sprocket has to be in the same spot on EVERY cam otherwise there would be not standard way to time the engine, as everyone would be different.

On to the head thing, Im thinking you have a head/valve issue. See if you can rent/borrow a valve spring compressor and remove the valves from the head. This might give you a better look at why your loosing pressure in that cylinder.

clay

I think I messed up here. What I was needing here was: If I mess up and can't figure out how to install the cam on to the head like it was when I removed it, then how do I time the engine when the head is reinstalled? I'm sure this has been done before but being this is my 1st time doing any of this I don't want to mess it up.

I guess what I need to know it: after the cam and sprocket are all back on the head, is there a TDC mark on it so that I can turn the crank to position the pistons at TDC, then install the head and at least have that portion of the timing set correctly?

I hope that came across the right way..:o

[yogurt_slinger]

Come on Paul.. this is easy stuff, the answers to most of your questions are all right there in front of you at thedodgegarage

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/timing_belt.html

the cam has a keyway which matches the cam sprocket..
.................................................. .........:nod:

[yogurt_slinger]

there is a tick mark on the crank sporcket and oil pump spocket, they need to be aligned with each other(they are way off in the pic, just ment to show the marks.)..once they are aligned, piston #1 will be at TDC.. then follow thedodgegarage.com instructions to complete the job.

[butchsuppe]

That heads been off before, all the bluing came from a Fel-Pro gasket, not a factory gasket. Get better pics of top of cyl. as they appear too clean due to steam. Did this car produce any white smoke ? Get pic of the combustion cambers, gasket usually blew at #1 cyl near water jacket at the rr. While head is off coat cyl. with WD40 to prevent rust.

[Clay]

go to www.thedodgegarage.com then to go the turbo section.

there is a breif, but good, description on how to set the cam timing.

[Lee'sdaytona]

I don't know paul, I think I am the only one who understands what your trying to ask. I guess its because we're building the same car and have the same questions :nod: There is no special way to install the cam onto the head. Just tighten from the center out. The direction does not matter, because when you go to time the engine, you move the sprocket to TDC, and that automatically moves the valves accordingly. There is no way to mess that up unless you somehow moved the lobes on the cam (which is impossible without breaking the cam ;) )
good luck, your getting there!
-Lee
EDIT: There is one thing, You have to use the same caps and in the same direction, so everything matches up as far as roundness. The factory numbered them for you, #1 starting on the left. Follow the torque specs for tightening

[85_600]

I don't know paul, I think I am the only one who understands what your trying to ask. I guess its because we're building the same car and have the same questions :nod: There is no special way to install the cam onto the head. Just tighten from the center out. The direction does not matter, because when you go to time the engine, you move the sprocket to TDC, and that automatically moves the valves accordingly. There is no way to mess that up unless you somehow moved the lobes on the cam (which is impossible without breaking the cam ;) )
good luck, your getting there!
-Lee
EDIT: There is one thing, You have to use the same caps and in the same direction, so everything matches up as far as roundness. The factory numbered them for you, #1 starting on the left. Follow the torque specs for tightening

EXACTLY what I was asking..:thumb: :thumb:

[85_600]

EDIT: There is one thing, You have to use the same caps and in the same direction, so everything matches up as far as roundness. The factory numbered them for you, #1 starting on the left. Follow the torque specs for tightening

I have all the caps in baggies with their bolts as well.

I also have the cam in rolled up in "parchement" paper of all things. I didn't want to use Saran Wrap for fear of it sticking to and tearing off of it.

So, basically it sounds like I didn't need to make those marks on it when I removed it...No biggie...

Thanks for all the info here. I'm starting to get renewed faith in wanting to complete this. Now all I need is access to some more $$:(

[turbovanman²]

#1 is at the pulley. I prefer to put the cam in with the key at 12 oclock, it rests nicely there. Don't forget to clean off the end cam caps and the head of old sealer. Use some brake cleaner and remove oil, lay some Anerobic sealer at the end of the cam caps where they mate to the head, NOT the bearing area but where the seals are, tighten down.