How long for the ecu to adjust the cruise afr

[1966 dart wagon]

About a month or 2 ago I installed the new version of turbonator on my daytona, This was the first time using mptuner and after getting the swing of it, its very nice to use! Anyways I have it tuned for 40+s and when I start it up it runs exactly at 14.7 afr but the longer it runs say couple mintues tops it slowly gets rich, all the way till around 10s, then as I'm driving around it would first still be in the 10s and slowly over about 30-40 miles got into the 12s, how long does it take the computer to learn how to adjust fueling, I know other cals its been right around the 40 mile mark and its all good, but its running so rich I really prefer not to drive it since I dont wanna wash down the rings, if this is even rich enough to do so, other then that no more missfire and everything else works great. I adjusted the map from baseline, part and full throttle tables, If any of you want I'd be happy to email you a copy of the cal and have you review it.

Thanks,
Jack

[roachjuice]

3 bar setup? you can match my fuel maps if you want. do not use the timing fix ones. just the +40's 3 bar one i had the same problems. its a mixture of a few fuel maps. i repeat. DO NOT USE THE TIMING FIX CALS IN THAT FILE.

[tryingbe]

There are limits on how much the computer can tune. I suggest you try to scale the injectors to 60 lbs and see what happens.

When you cold start, the a/f shouldn't stay at 14.7, it should be richer.

[zin]

I think the limit is in the 15-20% range, but don't quote me on that!

Curious as to what tables were adjusted to fix it in the cal... I don't imagine you extended the adaptive's limits, so that begs the question(s), what did you have to adjust to get it in-line?

Mike

PS I'm curious because, while I follow and try to learn as much as I can, I have yet to mess with adjusting/making cals, so any real-world experience is a big + in my mind.

[turbovanman²]

If its always rich, you need to adjust your pumpeff table or your part/full throttle fuel tables. After I change those tables, it takes about 5-10 mins to settle so to speak.

[GLHNSLHT2]

24.9% either side. 30-40 miles sounds about right. But the a/f shouldn't get richer or leaner, it should be where you set it and then get closer to stoich if you're off. To me it sounds like your curves are pretty far out of wack. When I put on my ported head the car would start out fine then get leaner and leaner until it would stall. Found I had to add 50% more fuel to the idle curve (it was leaning at idle) to get it to be ok. Basically I was pegging the adaptives and it didn't know what to do. Once I got it closer to 10% of where it needed to be the idle was good again. If you have an OTC 2000 you should be able to watch the adaptives. I haven't figured out how to do it on my 4000E.

[zin]

24.9% either side. 30-40 miles sounds about right. But the a/f shouldn't get richer or leaner, it should be where you set it and then get closer to stoich if you're off. To me it sounds like your curves are pretty far out of wack. When I put on my ported head the car would start out fine then get leaner and leaner until it would stall. Found I had to add 50% more fuel to the idle curve (it was leaning at idle) to get it to be ok. Basically I was pegging the adaptives and it didn't know what to do. Once I got it closer to 10% of where it needed to be the idle was good again. If you have an OTC 2000 you should be able to watch the adaptives. I haven't figured out how to do it on my 4000E.

OK, so what you are saying is that the adaptives are merely going to shoot for the target (14.7), unless that target is changed. This would also seem to indicate that they will only affect idle and p/t "trim"?... If so, then WOT would just use the values the cal comes up with based on what you have input/changed in the pumping eff. tables.

I would also assume they would only be in effect at p/t if you are at light/moderate loads...

Mike

[roachjuice]

The 2.5 cals on the lm are out of wack. I know that for a fact. Mine did the same thing. Compare my fuel map with yours.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/mobite/28998d38.jpg
Green is a stock manual 2.5. Blue line is mine. This worked. Pump eff table shouldn't be too far off honestly. It seems everyone's answer here is pump eff. IMO pump eff works if your lean or rich in certain rpm points. Say you get a little rich up top you can use the pump eff table to lean it out a bit. If it's just rich everywhere then it's something else. Try that table in the picture.

[turbovanman²]

OK, so what you are saying is that the adaptives are merely going to shoot for the target (14.7), unless that target is changed. This would also seem to indicate that they will only affect idle and p/t "trim"?... If so, then WOT would just use the values the cal comes up with based on what you have input/changed in the pumping eff. tables.

I would also assume they would only be in effect at p/t if you are at light/moderate loads...

Mike

The adaptives allow small changes, either rich or lean, to compensate for varying tolerances I would call it, and let the owner play with the car a little bit without ruining it. If the computer tries to compensate and can't, it will max out the adaptives trying, so then you need to adjust the tables.

The computer can't change WOT, its set, that's it.

[1966 dart wagon]

Did some tuning today, reset the cal. At cruise I got it spot on perfect at 14.7afr but when I go idle, and am at a stop it gets rich into the 12s, to adjust this I move the mapfrombaseline right? and the WOT was to lean 12.9+ I went to adjust it and burned a new chip and cant for the life of me get the car to run the CEL doesnt come on when I turn the key and it just cranks, I tried another smec along with the replacable board, cant recall the name with no luck, I even went back and burned my old cal, the one i was tuning at the begining, with no luck. Not sure what to do, unless the smec is fried. any idea how to test a smec, I've burned the chip 8+ times now.

[tryingbe]

What chip are you using? Does your chip need offset? Did you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key?

[89ShelbyGuy]

I just got a Tsmec 2.5 t1 base cal installed just recently, i started it up for the first time and i am balls to the walls rich..at idle i am 11.5-12..and sometime i dip into the 10's...then when i am cruising my afr's are shooting up..and when i slightly open the throttle i am getting real lean....its like the tables are backwards?? any ideas
?

[ShelGame]

About a month or 2 ago I installed the new version of turbonator on my daytona, This was the first time using mptuner and after getting the swing of it, its very nice to use! Anyways I have it tuned for 40+s and when I start it up it runs exactly at 14.7 afr but the longer it runs say couple mintues tops it slowly gets rich, all the way till around 10s, then as I'm driving around it would first still be in the 10s and slowly over about 30-40 miles got into the 12s, how long does it take the computer to learn how to adjust fueling, I know other cals its been right around the 40 mile mark and its all good, but its running so rich I really prefer not to drive it since I dont wanna wash down the rings, if this is even rich enough to do so, other then that no more missfire and everything else works great. I adjusted the map from baseline, part and full throttle tables, If any of you want I'd be happy to email you a copy of the cal and have you review it.

Thanks,
Jack

It should not get richer from the adaptives. They try to hold it at 14.7. There are some fuel corrections for the spark scatter idle control, but they are small.

I suspect it's something to do with transient fuel. There's a setting to turn the MAP transients off at idle. It's in the config flags. I called it "UseTPSTransFuelEarly" - but that's wrong. It's actually a flag to use MAP transients at idle (I named it before I really 100% understood it). If this is checked, then the ECU will calculate and use the MAP transient fuel at idle. If it is not checked, it uses TPS transients only.

Try unchecking it. I don't know if it will help or not as I've never really played with it. FWIW, every single stock cal I've seen has this box CHECKED...

I'm looking at the MAP transient factors now to see if there's something that needs to be tweaked...

[turbovanman²]

I just got a Tsmec 2.5 t1 base cal installed just recently, i started it up for the first time and i am balls to the walls rich..at idle i am 11.5-12..and sometime i dip into the 10's...then when i am cruising my afr's are shooting up..and when i slightly open the throttle i am getting real lean....its like the tables are backwards?? any ideas
?

Did you use MPTuners built in AF calculator? Did you adjust your PE table?

[1966 dart wagon]

What chip are you using? Does your chip need offset? Did you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key?

I'm using a 29c256 chip, no offset just burn and go its awesome, but I cant get it to work now.

I burn a chip, plug in the computer and turn the key and no cel, no fp no nothing just cranks, no cel tells me the smec or chip is bad, and since I tried 3 other smecs, one is known bad but I forgot to mark it. any ideas, since I will do more adjusting after I get it running. I'm going to do some more work on it tomorrow, but I've basically alreayd tried everything I can think of, is there a wire or something I can test off the smec to show if its working, and see if its the smec or chip causing the issue, I cannot find my spare chip, so cant rule that out, but still looking.