PDA

View Full Version : SRT 4 swap no spark



stitus
08-15-2011, 08:54 PM
So I hit the key today and cranked, and cranked, and cranked.... I have no spark at the coil. No signal to the coil wires at all. Car is an 88 shelby z with a 90 TIV wiring harness, and a pt cruiser turbo motor with SRT 4 manifold. I'm hoping the cal I got wasn't for the 91+ style of coil, but other than that, I have no clue where to start. Please help!

roachjuice
08-15-2011, 08:59 PM
Wow. What a swap lol. Ok so are you using an srt coil or what? Or using a distributor from a 2.2/2.5 and just hybridizing it? Little more info. If using the srt stuff I think those have a crank and cam sensor. That would cause it. If using a distribution system I'd check the hep.

stitus
08-15-2011, 09:16 PM
distributor and coil from a 90 vnt, and hep was new :(

moparman76_69
08-15-2011, 09:28 PM
Is it a "hybrid" with the stock distributor location or is the distributor mounted to the cam? If so the distributor needs to be modified for reverse rotation and the hep flipped 180 degrees or you won't get correct spark.

stitus
08-15-2011, 10:25 PM
The distributor is running off of the cam... so I need to 180 the hep? Is there something I missed somewhere regarding running the distributor off of the cam? My HEP is plugged in like it was stock, I have and rbryant distributor... If I can't get this thing to breathe life, It's going to the junk yard!

stitus
08-16-2011, 08:45 PM
Can anybody help?? I swapped the grey and black connectors and 180'd the HEP, and still no sparky! Do I need to do anything else?

moparman76_69
08-16-2011, 09:28 PM
You have to modify the stutter wheel inside the distributor.


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?60581-Reverse-Rotation-Distributor-Any-issues

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

NVM you have the modified dist. from Rbryant? Then physically rotate the hep 180. That thread I linked talks about what to do.

stitus
08-16-2011, 09:34 PM
I did rotate the hep.... :(

moparman76_69
08-16-2011, 09:49 PM
tried it with the connectors both stock and reversed? Is the hep known to be good? Could the timing just be way off?

stitus
08-16-2011, 09:55 PM
I tried it both ways with the connectors. HEP came from a running car, however I know the timing is off a bit, but I've tried rotating it all the way around. When I hold a tester to the coil connections, the light flashes once on both terminals at the same time the IAS motor is cycling, but there is no light when cranking. How well does the motor have to be grounded?

forcedfedmopar
08-16-2011, 10:00 PM
how many grounds do you have? The coil needs to have 12v. if the coil has 12v then it should produce a spark if your distibutor is working correctly, reguardless of timing.

A.J.
08-16-2011, 10:08 PM
With a test light you need to check, like forcefedmopar said, for 12 volts at one terminal at the coil. Then take your test light, put the clamp on the positive terminal on the battery, and check to see if the other terminal flashes the test light while cranking. If both those things happen then your coil is bad. If they're not it's further up the line.

A.J.

roachjuice
08-16-2011, 10:10 PM
I don't think you can get the black and grey connectors backwards. They have different little plastic things on the inside to prevent this.

A.J.
08-16-2011, 10:20 PM
I don't think you can get the black and grey connectors backwards. They have different little plastic things on the inside to prevent this.

Rich Bryant who build the distributors can explain it better, but you're suppose to reverse the connectors when it runs off the cam. You have to modify the connectors to make it work.

A.J.

stitus
08-16-2011, 10:53 PM
Coil is good, there are 2 grounds on the motor, ASD Relay is good as far as I can tell, but no power to the green/blk wire coming out, but there is power to the others. I have power to the orange and blue wires in the HEP connector as well. What could I be missing?

turbovanmanČ
08-17-2011, 01:05 AM
Is your fuel pump working? If so, that means your ASD relay is working and barring a wiring issue, that means you should be getting 12 volts to the coil. If you jump the coil +, does the fuel pump turn on? If not, you have a wiring issue.

Just to clarify on the dizzy, you bought a modded unit from Rbryant? You need to reverse the firing order on the cap, swap positions 2 and 3.

I broke off the tabs inside the hep plugs so I can use any hep I want, plus I ground off the little locating nib.

stitus
08-17-2011, 01:19 AM
I broke off the tabs in the hep plug, jumped the + on the coil and the fuel pump ran. I can't really tell if the pump turns on normally as the stupid IAS motor buzzes when I turn the key, and there is also a very high pitch noise coming from the computer itself, kind of like the sounds you hear when you take a hearing test. I do have the modded dizzy, though until your post I couldn't determine which 2 wires I needed to switch for sure, though I should still have power to the coil regardless. Cap is modded also to fit the rotated HEP. I've basically narrowed it down to 3 possibilities... The cal is wrong, the HEP magically went bad sitting on a shelf, coming from a running vehicle, or the coil/injector driver circuit somehow went bad from the time I pulled it from a running vehicle, sent it in to be chipped, and got it back. Then again, there may be something behind curtain #4...

turbovanmanČ
08-17-2011, 02:08 AM
Do you have a chipped computer? The buzzing computer and IAC to me means you've missed some computer/engine grounds or the cal/computer is bad.

stitus
08-17-2011, 11:09 PM
I sent it to Shelgame last year to chip it and he burned me two cals. The computer came out of my daily driver along with everything else. Are there any grounds inside the car? If so, I don't have all of the harness to the tail lights hooked up yet, and I also don't have the headlights or other connections in front of the radiator hooked up yet either. Everything under the dash and on the firewall is hooked up though. The IAC just buzzes once real fast when you first turn the key forward in sync with the clicking of the ASD relay to start the pump.

stitus
08-17-2011, 11:57 PM
Ok, the HEP is good, the coil is good, the grounds are good. The signal wires are switched for the HEP, the HEP is turned 180* and notch cut in the distributor. If I jump the coil, the fuel pump turns on. I have the modded dizzy with position #2 and #3 swapped. Hmmm... anyone need an SRT motor with 70k on it? :mad:

A.J.
08-18-2011, 12:07 AM
Are you getting spark at all or are you not getting spark where you want it? What about injector pulse? Are you getting that? If you don't have a noid light you can use a stethoscope and listen for the injectors to "click" while cranking.

A.J.

stitus
08-18-2011, 01:00 AM
No spark period. Figured if I had spark, I should have injector pulse... however, I had my hand on the connector to the computer while I was cranking with the coil wire off, and it arced ONE TIME at the same time the whine in the computer quit, so I'm thinking somehow the connector to the computer isn't making proper contact with all the pins!! Of all the fu*kin problems I could have had, SUDDENLY the damn pins don't make proper contact! Not sure how to be sure that this is the problem since I couldn't reproduce the same result twice, but it seems there might be hope.

turbovanmanČ
08-18-2011, 04:44 PM
I sent it to Shelgame last year to chip it and he burned me two cals. The computer came out of my daily driver along with everything else. Are there any grounds inside the car? If so, I don't have all of the harness to the tail lights hooked up yet, and I also don't have the headlights or other connections in front of the radiator hooked up yet either. Everything under the dash and on the firewall is hooked up though. The IAC just buzzes once real fast when you first turn the key forward in sync with the clicking of the ASD relay to start the pump.

That is a sign of bad grounds or a bad cal. Do you have a burner?

Do you have the fuel rail ground hooked up?

moparman76_69
08-18-2011, 05:06 PM
Coil is good, there are 2 grounds on the motor, ASD Relay is good as far as I can tell, but no power to the green/blk wire coming out, but there is power to the others. I have power to the orange and blue wires in the HEP connector as well. What could I be missing?

You should have the neg. battery cable on the block, then a ground strap from the engine to the firewall and a ground from the intake to the fuel rail. I've never heard of a SMEC having an issue with bad connector at the 60 pin, and the SBEC on the 90 cars have the same type of terminals in the connector so I don't see it being a bad connection at the computer.

stitus
08-20-2011, 02:09 PM
Ok, I determined the problem is in the computer... which really pisses me off cause it worked when I sent it in. Anyway, I took the computer out of my dd and I have spark and all the electronics work normally, but I don't have injector pulse now! I get power to the BLK/GRN wire when I'm cranking, but the injectors don't do anything!

turbovanmanČ
08-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Ok, I determined the problem is in the computer... which really pisses me off cause it worked when I sent it in. Anyway, I took the computer out of my dd and I have spark and all the electronics work normally, but I don't have injector pulse now! I get power to the BLK/GRN wire when I'm cranking, but the injectors don't do anything!

Yep, that buzzing ASD and the noisey computer would indicate that. Glad you found it. It could also be the cal, try another chip.

stitus
08-20-2011, 03:25 PM
What I am saying is, I'm now using the STOCK computer from my other car, and I'm getting everything but fuel. I have power AND fuel to the injectors, but they don't seem to be opening. They are SRT injectors...would that matter? I know another guy used a stock computer to get his running... Unaclocker or maybe Una in this forum.

turbovanmanČ
08-20-2011, 03:27 PM
What I am saying is, I'm now using the STOCK computer from my other car, and I'm getting everything but fuel. I have power AND fuel to the injectors, but they don't seem to be opening. They are SRT injectors...would that matter? I know another guy used a stock computer to get his running... Unaclocker or maybe Una in this forum.

I don't think you can use SRT injectors, measure the resistance and compare to stockers to be sure.

Have you checked for power at the injectors using a noid or test light-edit, you've already checked. :banghead:

moparman76_69
08-20-2011, 03:46 PM
What I am saying is, I'm now using the STOCK computer from my other car, and I'm getting everything but fuel. I have power AND fuel to the injectors, but they don't seem to be opening. They are SRT injectors...would that matter? I know another guy used a stock computer to get his running... Unaclocker or maybe Una in this forum.

You have to use low impedance injectors, the srt-4's won't work they are high impedance. Also it might be the chip, sometimes if the offset is burned wrong then it will do the ASD click.

A.J.
08-20-2011, 09:14 PM
Ok, I determined the problem is in the computer... which really pisses me off cause it worked when I sent it in. Anyway, I took the computer out of my dd and I have spark and all the electronics work normally, but I don't have injector pulse now! I get power to the BLK/GRN wire when I'm cranking, but the injectors don't do anything!

I wouldn't be surprised that the computer was good before and now it's not. About every third computer I socket goes bad. I use a wrist grounding strap and everything.

You can't use SRT-4 injectors. That might even be what smoked your computer.

A.J.

moparman76_69
08-20-2011, 10:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that the computer was good before and now it's not. About every third computer I socket goes bad. I use a wrist grounding strap and everything.

You can't use SRT-4 injectors. That might even be what smoked your computer.

A.J.

Yeah I thought that but didn't want to say it. Probably smoked the injector drivers.

stitus
08-21-2011, 03:36 AM
The computer I sent off was to be calibrated for SRT injectors. I had two cals made for this EXACT setup, SRT injectors, motor, intake, etc. and neither one fired the coil or injectors. Only progress I made solving this problem was using stock parts from the TIV car I drive every day. Therefore, the computer I sent off was smoked after I sent it off, and before I plugged it in for the first time. The TIV computer I used to diagnose the damn problem is back in my daily driver still running fine, even after being hooked up to the SRT injectors for several hours cranking away... So basically I blew over $200 for 2 cals and a socketed ecu only to be EXACTLY where I was a year ago with all my stock components. Only difference is that I didn't know I could run this setup with minor mods to my stock parts! Blew out my brand new starter and battery during this ordeal as well, so grand total of around $500 to learn that my previously functioning ecu is now bad, and I could have had a reliable vehicle a year ago WITHOUT all this damn headache!!

A.J.
08-21-2011, 08:43 AM
You can't calibrate a computer for a different impedance injector. You can only calibrate for flow. So it is possible using the wrong impedance injectors smoked your computer. It's the same reason you can't use a test light to test for injector pulse. A noid light has the correct impedance and will simulate an injector in the system.

When you're building a custom car you have to expect hurdles. Just because it's been done before, doesn't mean it's going to go smoothly for you. I just installed a '98 5.9 engine in a '94 5.2 Dakota. For a week it's been running like crap. I was getting frustrated that I just spent $1700 on a truck I can't drive on the street. It turns out the '98 5.9 injectors I was using were smaller than the '94 5.2 injectors causing a lean misfire. I almost spent another $120 on an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and an unknown amount of time on fabbing this up on the truck. I ASSUMED (assumption being the mother of all f-ups) that the 5.9 injectors would flow more. I was wrong. Now the truck runs great.

A.J.

stitus
08-21-2011, 08:58 PM
My '88 Shelby Z T-top 2.4 90+ interior swap..... IS ALIVE!!! :eyebrows:

Thanks for the help guys! :thumb:

A.J.
08-21-2011, 09:34 PM
My '88 Shelby Z T-top 2.4 90+ interior swap..... IS ALIVE!!! :eyebrows:

Thanks for the help guys! :thumb:

So what was it? I have an SRT-4 build in the works that might not start when I turn the key. I'd like to know what to look out for.

A.J.

stitus
08-21-2011, 10:03 PM
I had to use stock injectors, because the SRT injectors are high impedance. Before I figured that out, I had the computer from my daily driver in it while the SRT injectors were in it, and it didn't fry the computer thank god! Oh, the calibrated, socketed computer was bad as well.

turbovanmanČ
08-21-2011, 10:16 PM
I had to use stock injectors, because the SRT injectors are high impedance. Before I figured that out, I had the computer from my daily driver in it while the SRT injectors were in it, and it didn't fry the computer thank god! Oh, the calibrated, socketed computer was bad as well.

We told you earlier, :D

Glad its alive. :nod:

Getting bad cals happens, even from the factory, so whomever did them for you will most likely redo them for nothing, so don't get mad.

FYI, when doing custom stuff, its wise to use stock components to get it running, then install the custom cals etc after you know it starts.

stitus
08-22-2011, 01:57 AM
cool... this is the first and ONLY custom project I am going to do! lol Sucks that I had 2 cals and neither one worked though, so I know the computer I sent in is now bad :( When I started this project, I wasn't even aware that I could get it running with stock components unfortunately.

moparman76_69
08-22-2011, 07:37 AM
cool... this is the first and ONLY custom project I am going to do! lol Sucks that I had 2 cals and neither one worked though, so I know the computer I sent in is now bad :( When I started this project, I wasn't even aware that I could get it running with stock components unfortunately.

Running yes. Running well and safely no. The 16v wouldn't be happy on stock 8v fuel maps. You'd have to have a custom cal.

ShelGame
08-22-2011, 11:51 AM
The computer I made for you is probably OK. But I did have an issue with the SBEC cals that was fixed in May. Send me a PM, I'll be happy to make an update for you.

turbovanmanČ
08-22-2011, 01:30 PM
Running yes. Running well and safely no. The 16v wouldn't be happy on stock 8v fuel maps. You'd have to have a custom cal.

Correct, get it running, then you can put in the goody's, just a few things out of the equation, especially if its a new engine, as if it was, he'd have killed the rings, :(