1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse (turbo) [Archive]

iTurbo

07-24-2011, 07:30 PM

So yesterday I went to try a new Mexican restaurant in town. After I put in my carry-out order, the kid behind the counter asks me if I'm the guy that owns that 'red' car. I thought he was talking about my CSRT that I happened to be driving at the time (it's actually orange), but it turns out he meant my Shelby Lancer and right away he's asking me if it's for sale etc....ha I gotta say I was surprised. It is cosmetically challenged to say the least with 90% if the clearcoat missing. So after telling him that I could probably never bring myself to sell that car because me and her go way back, we start talking about his car and some of the problems it's got. Turns out it's a '96 Mitsubishi Eclipse with the 4G63T. He tells me it has an exhaust leak, it's slow as hell, and the aftermarket BOV doesn't make any noise (lols). So I tell him to bring it by the apartments about a block away where I live.

Today he comes by with his other car (a nicely modded 350Z) while I'm putting the CSX together. After talking a while, he leaves and comes back with the Eclipse and a few of his friends. Right away they are looking at a few of my cars, and to my surprised they seemed to be most interested in the SL (?!), although I tell them straight up that the CSRT blows away all my other cars. One of the guys apparently owns an STI, and they were kind of hinting around they wanted a ride in the CSRT. So we all get in the CSRT and I show them what it can do....I think they were pretty shocked and I think I scared the guy riding shotgun lol as the CSRT ripped the tires loose through 2nd and a good chunk of third as I punched it up a fairly steep hill and they momentarily loss contact with their seat bottoms as I hit the summit.

So anyways, we go back to my place and start looking over the Eclipse. He pops the hood and I can see that the car has a big FMIC, Greddy Type S BOV, and an aftermarket 4-1 tubular header. The turbo appears to be stock Garrett T25. We take a drive in it and sure enough it is slow as hell. I don't think it was making any boost at all actually. After getting back from a short test drive, I can see that it has an exhaust leak at both the manifold flange and the turbine inlet flange. Unfortunately whoever installed the header used RTV (lots) on the exhaust manifold gasket which is undoubtedly making things a lot worse. Then I notice that I can actually SEE a gap between the header and turbine housing because the bolts are that loose. Geez....

So right now I'm waiting for the car to cool off enough that I can get my hands in there and tighten up some of the bolts. Do you guys that know anything about the $G63 tell me where to look as far as why this isn't making any boost? It doesn't seem to smoke other than the little bit due to the exhaust leak. You can BARELY hear the BOV which is dumping to atmosphere...probably because it isn't making any boost anyway. I told him that we could try using a MBC instead of the stock solenoid setup which appears to be hooked up right, but I'm not sure how well this car is going to cooperate with a grainger valve (all I have).

I told him if it was my car I would ditch the header and put the stock manifold back on but I don't think he has it....sounds like he bought it this way from one of his friends so I can't really blame him for the hokey installation.

dodgeshadowchik

07-24-2011, 08:22 PM

First and foremost, is he running the stock MAF and venting that BOV? If he is, tell him to recirculate that. If it is vented with the MAF in the stock location, than essientally this acts as a giant boost leak. (The computer metered the air, then all of a sudden its gone... )

You could hook up the grainer valve and take it out of the BCS if you want. However, if he doesn't have a boost gauge, this probably won't help anything. Worst case scenario is the car will hit fuel cut.

I would also ditch the header.. and yes fix that exhaust gap! Wouldn't be surprised if that is most of the problem. Oh yeah, a huge giant FMIC on a t-too-small is pretty useless. ;)

FYI, here's an easy way to tell if it still is runnng the T25:
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/turbo_tech/turbo_t25_1_P.jpg

The popular 14b/16g swaps will have a j-pipe that is lacking on the t25 since the compressor housing has that nice little extension that goes to the factory SMIC.

16g: (14b will look similar)
http://www.turbochargers.com/store/images/Evo3 Big 16G 010.jpg

iTurbo

07-24-2011, 09:24 PM

Thanks! After looking at it again, it is in fact the TD05H. I assumed it was a T25 since it's a 2nd gen Eclipse. I attempted to tighten the exhaust manifold hardware since most all of them were loose, but it was a waste of time. The exhaust leak at the manifold/head flange is so bad you can feel it blast your fingers and carbon tracking all over the place, including the hood mat! Also one of the four bolts for the turbine/header was snapped as it had warped so much!

I'm going to call the kid back and tell him the best thing to do is get rid of that header and throw it in the garbage. This car needs a stock exhaust manifold, all new hardware and a new gasket plain and simple.

I looked into the BCS a little bit more, but the electrical connector is all jacked up with black tape and a bolt sticking in one of the vacuum lines coming out of it. Anybody got a pic or vacuum diagram of proper BCS hookup?

It does appear that the stock MAF is still there, but he has this crazy green foam HKS filter sticking on it. There is a large ~ 1.25" port in the compressor inlet rubber boot after the MAF with a big machined aluminum plug in it. Is that where the BOV is supposed to recirc?

iTurbo

07-24-2011, 09:38 PM

BTW, anybody got a good used exhaust manifold for cheap? Looks pretty easy to replace so I may end up doing this for him for a small fee. Looks like I'll have to replace all the manifold hardware too. I don't know any good DSM places though....maybe RRE?

dodgeshadowchik

07-24-2011, 10:04 PM

Yea, that is probably where it needs to be recirc-ed back. I attached a few pics for you. TD05H, he's probably got one of the 16gs on there.

RRE is a good place. I find that ExtremePSI is a great source for parts, as well. They are very fast, too.

www.extremepsi.com (http://www.extremepsi.com)

If you go with the stock type manifold, try to locate an EVO3 manifold. They are less prone to cracking. The 2g DSM one tends to crack. The EVO3 ones could be found pretty cheap used, as well.

Tell him to check out www.dsmtuners.com (http://www.dsmtuners.com), if he is not already on there and surf the classifieds. Also, if you are going to mess around with the boost off a grainger... ask him what he has done for fuel. Don't go over 15psi on that turbo if he's still running the stock injectors and pump. :) You are right, doing a manifold/turbo job on one of these is not that hard.

dodgeshadowchik

07-24-2011, 10:06 PM

Idk what happened to the above post, but it changed the font and color... sorry if it's hard to read?

iTurbo

07-24-2011, 10:18 PM

Excellent thank you! I can read it if I highlight the text with the mouse. Looks like I also need to find that little formed tube to recirculate the BOV as there is just a big aluminum plug in there right now with nothing on the BOV discharge.

iTurbo

07-24-2011, 10:32 PM

OK right away I think I've found everything including OEM hardware, copper exhaust manifold gasket (Mr.Gasket), and the EVO3 exhaust manifold at ExtremePSI. Some of the items there is apparently a difference between a "6-bolt" and "7-bolt" motor. How do I know what this '96 model is?

dodgeshadowchik

07-25-2011, 07:21 AM

Anytime! :)

Since this car is not stock, it could be either. Most people have this preconceived notion that all 7-bots will crankwalk, so they swap them to 6-bolts. When talking about stock cars, the 6-bolt was found in the 90-92.5 dsm. 92.5 and up were 7-bolts.

There's a few ways to differenate them. 6-bolt engines used a CAS sensor, which will look like a big round piece sticking off the intake cam on the passenger side of the engine. The 7-bolts used a different style cam sensor. However, it is possible to use the 6-bolt head on a 7-bolt block... The easiest way.. and for sure way to tell is to look at the crank pulley and count the bolts. There's not a lot of room, so you might have to take the wheel and splash shield off. 6-bolts will have 6, 7 will have 7. (This is where the name comes from. ;) ) There's a difference in the oil pan, too, between the blocks. On the 7-bolt there's a flange that dips down right under the crank sprocket. On the 6-bolts it is straight.

Yeah, that's pretty normal for the newer kids to just vent that BOV for the "sound." Then they realize that the car doesn't run right anymore. But once they figure out how the MAF sensor works, they'll recirc it back. If he is bent on having one that vents off to atmosphere, tell him to look into moving the sensor so that its a "blow through" set up. I.E. the MAF is located in the UICP after the BOV.

zshadow

07-26-2011, 08:13 PM

+1 to dodgeshadowchik and her great info! :thumb:

if no reserc aka BOV w pipe into the intake then it needs reserc. Also check if the throttle body has 4 spots for vacuum lines or just three (4 spots = 1st gen 7 bolt, 3 spots = 2nd gen 6 bolt) that will also tell u what gen engine itll be.

if it sputters into boost also check his feed lines to the turbo, if they arent stock he might be drowning the turbo with oil. Those lines have to be the correct size for the amount of boost per application.

slowneon

07-26-2011, 09:12 PM

dodgeshadowchik

07-26-2011, 09:15 PM

Opps. sorry.. wrong side of the engine. I'm getting senile in this old age. LOL

iTurbo

07-27-2011, 12:42 AM

dodgeshadowchik

07-27-2011, 07:01 AM

List looks good thus far!

Any of those gaskets will be ok. The OEM stuff tends to work just fine.

Stock 2g cars run the feed like from the filter housing, and from your description, it is still that way. You can choose to run the feed from either location, but I'd just leave it at the filter housing. It does provide a bit more oil pressure from there as opposed to the head.

Do you or can you get a picture of how he has his intercooler pipes set up? I've seen some people just use regular hose and some clamps to connect the BOV back into the intake. But if the BOV is sitting in a weird spot, it could kink the hose.

dodgeshadowchik

07-27-2011, 09:54 AM

Oh, was digging through the bin with misc. DSM crap, and found the little hose that connects the BOV to the intake. However, It's an OE piece so depending on where his BOV is on the piping (and the size of the BOV's outlet), you may not be able to use it.

slowneon

07-27-2011, 09:48 PM

Thanks again everyone. So far I'm looking at ordering this stuff from ExtremePSI:

OEM exhaust manifold stud/nut set
ARP 8740 chromoly turbo-to-manifold bolts/washers (cheaper than OEM)
OEM 4-ply exhaust manifold gasket
OEM dipstick tube (crazy rigged thing sticking out of it now)
ExtremePSI oil feed line kit (oil filter location)

On the exhaust manifold gasket, ExtremePSI offers three different ones: 2-ply OEM, 4-ply OEM, and the copper Mr.Gasket one. Which one should I get?

On the oil feed line kit, ExtremePSI has "head location" and "oil filter location" feed line kits. Right now it looks like the car has an OEM-looking hard line that appears to go down to the oil filter area. Don't know if it's stock or what. Am I OK buying the "oil filter location" turbo oil feed line kit?

Still looking for a dump tube that will work with the Greddy Type S BOV on there too. Anybody know where to get one? Or have a close-up picture of this area?

2 or 4 ply gasket would be fine. I had a copper one that didn't want to seal. You should consider the arp SS manifold to head studs just in case its got to come apart down the road. Oil feed comes from the oil filter housing stock. I have been told that there is not enough oil flow thought the head on a 2g, to hook the turbo oil feed line. I don't really believe them but I always use the filter housing

dodgeshadowchik

07-27-2011, 09:53 PM

+1

Forgot about those $86 bolts. But worth it. LOL.. yeah, it's pretty much a good idea to not believe what most "dsmers" say. ;)

iTurbo

07-28-2011, 07:33 PM

Yeah if it were my car I probably would get the nice stainless ARP hardware. I know the TIII motors came with SS studs stock and they have always looked great when I remove them despite them being 20+ years old.

I think I will just get the 4-ply exhaust manifold gasket though. I was a little apprehensive about getting the copper Mr.Gasket one just because I'm one of those "stock is trick" people I suppose. I decided to get the 4-ply hoping that it will seal a little better as the eBay header on the car now has been leaking for a while so hopefully it hasn't damaged the flange on the head.

I'm about to tear into the car now....I finally have a night off from Dominos and I'm going to be taking pics before I even start and all along the way. I will take a pic of the Greddy BOV setup as well....maybe DSC can tell if the OEM BOV hose will work with it or not. I did find a good webpage on how to properly recirc the BOV and eliminate the BOV 'dump' tube inside the air intake hose so that should make the computer happy again. I have a feeling most of the problem is related to the major exhaust leaks though, so I'm going to fix that up first.

This car is pretty cool....if I wasn't so overloaded with old turbo Mopars I might get one myself!

dodgeshadowchik

07-28-2011, 07:52 PM

Good luck! Would love to see pics of the car. :)

They are addictive... so be careful. ;)

iTurbo

07-28-2011, 10:36 PM

OK, just got done working on the car. In less than two hours I had the intake, radiator fans, turbocharger, and header removed from the car. Here are some pics of it and my progress so far.

32836328373283832839328403284132842328433284432845 32846

Unfortunately I found even more stuff wrong with the car. Big surprise right?! I thought it was leaking oil, but upon further inspection it appears that most of the leakage is due to a coolant leak probably coming from the big aluminum water pipe that runs parallel to the block. Looks like a leaking O-ring where it meets the water pump just behind the P/S pump. Is this easy to fix? It doesn't look that hard to remove the big pipe but I haven't tried yet.

Second problem I found is that after removing the turbocharger, the turbine housing has a really big crack extending into the wastegate passage. One of the threaded holes for attaching it to the manifold was also stripped. The turbo seems OK other than that.... probably functional but possibly reducing response. I'm pretty sure it is a stock turbocharger as the compressor wheel is really small even compared to a Chryco TII unit.

Third problem is that several of the exhaust manifold stud holes have been helicoiled, but the ends of them were not cut off flush with the head and they are actually protruding out of the flange! This header didn't stand a chance in hell of sealing. I had to pry the 2-ply exhaust manifold gasket off the head and studs because of all the RTV that was used. I'm hoping that lots of cleanup with Brakleen and a razor blade will take care of most of it. I will have to use the Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the helicoils down flush with the flange, install another helicoil in one of the holes because it stripped, and then install all new studs/gasket/stock manifold.

Fourth problem (least of worries) was a major boost leak in the intercooler piping just below the BOV. That was probably the biggest reason for not making any boost at all.

Fifth problem is the timing belt seems really loose. Replacing the T-belt does not look like any fun at all!

So I'm going to talk to the kid and see what he wants to do about it....even after removing all this stuff I have to say it is pretty easy to work on *so far*.

shackwrrr

07-28-2011, 10:55 PM

I would hit up a trucking store and get a decent coupler for that tubing, Looks like it has the non reinforced "spectre performance" coupler meant for N/A cold air intakes.

Looks like the crankcase evacuation needs attention if they had to use screw to hold the dipstick to the tube.

iTurbo

07-28-2011, 11:03 PM

Actually, the screw in the dipstick tube 'thing' is just a means of having a pull handle attached. It doesn't actually hold the dipstick to the tube at all. I've driven the car a couple times and while it was slow as hell, it didn't appear to have any blowby problems that I could tell. I'm going to order a new OEM dipstick from ExtremePSI for it though.

The coupler that was leaking is the black straight section just below the BOV. Is that the one you were referring to? It is a cheap --- coupler, but the rest of them are blue silicone and all of those seem tight and use T-bolt clamps throughout. That's probably why the black one blew off....it was the weakest link. I will probably order a silicone hump hose to replace so it has a little more flex as well.

dodgeshadowchik

07-28-2011, 11:49 PM

Unfortunately I found even more stuff wrong with the car. Big surprise right?! I thought it was leaking oil, but upon further inspection it appears that most of the leakage is due to a coolant leak probably coming from the big aluminum water pipe that runs parallel to the block. Looks like a leaking O-ring where it meets the water pump just behind the P/S pump. Is this easy to fix? It doesn't look that hard to remove the big pipe but I haven't tried yet.

It is not that difficult to remove. Forget how many bolts hold it in, but they are all pretty easily accessible.

Second problem I found is that after removing the turbocharger, the turbine housing has a really big crack extending into the wastegate passage. One of the threaded holes for attaching it to the manifold was also stripped. The turbo seems OK other than that.... probably functional but possibly reducing response. I'm pretty sure it is a stock turbocharger as the compressor wheel is really small even compared to a Chryco TII unit.

This is pretty common, as well. You are right, it'll function, but not at 100%. Really you'd have to find another turbine housing... which typically isn't too hard. If you can get me some numbers off the turbo's compressor housing. Should be a pretty long series of numbers, not the TDo5H one. I'll look them up and tell you what one it is. (i.e.. 14b, small 16g, big 16g, or EVO316g) All of them are considered "upgrades" for the 2g, but are all still "stock" as the 14b was found on the 1g cars (with a manual trans) and the 16g's can be found on the EVO's in various forms.

Third problem is that several of the exhaust manifold stud holes have been helicoiled, but the ends of them were not cut off flush with the head and they are actually protruding out of the flange! This header didn't stand a chance in hell of sealing. I had to pry the 2-ply exhaust manifold gasket off the head and studs because of all the RTV that was used. I'm hoping that lots of cleanup with Brakleen and a razor blade will take care of most of it. I will have to use the Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the helicoils down flush with the flange, install another helicoil in one of the holes because it stripped, and then install all new studs/gasket/stock manifold.

Ouch! You know... this is pretty common, too. Got a cylinder head right now that has a messed up exhaust stud hole that needs helicoiled. Low and behold, it always leaked from that corner.

]Fourth problem (least of worries) was a major boost leak in the intercooler piping just below the BOV. That was probably the biggest reason for not making any boost at all.

That'll do it! Speaking of intercooler piping. That BOV looks like its sitting on a flange for a 1g BOV judging by the hole next to where it is bolted in and the shape of the flange. Is that actually sealing? With it faced that way, the OEM hose have won't work... it'll have to be rotated about 180º then it could be used.

Fifth problem is the timing belt seems really loose. Replacing the T-belt does not look like any fun at all!

How loose? The timing belts on these cars hsould be done every 60k. The actual timing components, like the tensioner, and pulleys should be done at 100-120k or so. How many miles is on the car and has it ever been done? These ARE interference engines, so if you suspect that it's loose I'd suggest he get that done ASAP to avoid more catastrophic damage. It's not the easiest job in the world... but pretty sure it's not the worst, either. LOL.

Thanks for the pics, btw... it doesn't look too beat up and the strut towers are clean! (2g's are prone to those rusting out) Seems like it could easily be corrected.

iTurbo

07-29-2011, 09:34 AM

On the timing belt, there seems to be more slack than I would expect between the cams and also on the run between the intake cam gear and whatever is after that. I think I may go ahead and look into the timing belt, but I'm going to let the guy know that it's not a cheap job first. The timing belt kit at ExtremePSI is about $280 just for the parts and that doesn't include the water pump either. I haven't done a 4G63, but I have done several TIIIs and a Mitsu 2.5L in a '95 Avenger once before (6G72) and that went well. I already have the little pin spanner wrench for the eccentric pulley too.

On the BOV, I think you are right about the flange. It looks like it was originally for a 1G DSM but somebody drilled it to accomodate the Greddy flange. I'm definitely going to remove it and change out the gasket at least and see if it was sealing properly.

dodgeshadowchik

07-29-2011, 09:59 AM

Probably a good idea to go ahead and do that timing belt. If you've done an Avenger, this shouldn't be much harder; space wise. Also do the balance shaft belt too while you're there. Here's a good write up on it:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

Cool deal, yeah seems like he had quite a bit of exhaust and boost leaks going on. lol...

thedon809

07-30-2011, 11:28 AM

They can somewhat be a pain the line the timing marks back up. First time I did it, they looked right but ended up being a tooth off.
I always wonder what my talon would be like if I never wrecked it. I sorely miss doing AWD donuts in the kmart parking lot when I worked there :(.

iTurbo

07-30-2011, 02:33 PM

Yup if I didn't have so many old turbo mopars I might get one. They seem like fun cars and easy enough to work on. I found out on DSMTuners that the automatic timing belt tensioner lets the belt tension relax after the engine shuts off, so the 'loose' appearance might not be as big a deal as I thought. A guy there says as long as it's not flopping like a fish out of water while the engine is running it should be OK..

I started cleaning things up today getting ready to put back together. I think the header might actually be OK and will seal up with it installed correctly. I went to NAPA and got an 8mm x 1.25 helicoil kit to repair the damaged threads in the cylinder head for the manifold studs. Several of the holes were already helicoiled but I will have to do one more that was stripped out from using a bolt that was way too long.

Then I started to clean up the turbocharger and I noticed something bad.... It looks like the aftermarket header required different bolts than stock to mount the turbocharger. I'm pretty sure the stock bolts were 10mm x 1.25, but the bolts that I took out were 10mm x 1.5. Needless to say all four of the threaded holes for the turbine inlet are all jacked up now. I also got a 10mm helicoil kit from NAPA, but with all the wastegate passage cracks in the housing this thing *really* needs a good turbine housing. If it were my car I would just upgrade the turbo to a Holset or Garrett T3 at the very least, but for now I'll try my luck with the helicoils.

iTurbo

07-30-2011, 09:13 PM

I got all the stripped bolt holes fixed today. I had to buy an 8mm and 10mm helicoil kits and associated drill bits at NAPA and it came to about $120! Yeoutch my ---!! At least they are common sizes that I know I will end up needing for my own car stuff. Let me tell you, drilling/tapping/helicoiling cast iron is NOT fun. I had to do all four holes in the turbine inlet flange and four of the nine exhaust manifold holes in the cylinder head. I also had to remove the radiator just to get the drill into position on the head, but it was only two radiator hose clamps and a few 12mm bolts and it slid right out. It's all cleaned up and ready to put back together, just gotta wait for my ExtremePSI order to come in and look into having the header flanges milled flat.

dodgeshadowchik

07-31-2011, 11:28 AM

Sweet! Glad you are making some progress on it!

iTurbo

07-31-2011, 02:08 PM

Hey, something I just thought of.... when I get everything back together, how do I disable the ignition so I can crank it over enough to get the oil flowing back through the turbo before actual startup? I thought about unplugging coil module but worried it might damage a driver in the ECU or something.

shackwrrr

07-31-2011, 04:29 PM

Cam or crank sensor, you could disable fuel too.

Or hold the turbo from turning and start it up, after 30 sec let it go.

iTurbo

08-02-2011, 12:29 AM

^Thanks! My order from ExtremePSI is on the way and should be here on Friday. Plus, I brought the header down to the machine shop and the shop owner dropped everything to machine the header flat on the spot! Holy cow, I wish he would finally do the TIII shortblock I brought down there almost a year ago, but I digress. The header flanges were WAY out! It took a while to make it flat on both the head and turbo flanges but I'm finally feeling good about reinstalling this thing back on the engine. It was cheaper to machine it flat than it was for a good used OEM manifold so...

The kid that owns the car came over yesterday with his STI buddy to paint the tail lights black (wtf?) and also had a narrow band Autometer Ultra Lite A/F gauge he wants me to install. I happened to have an extra Autometer Z-series mechanical vac/boost gauge and an M&M Racing grainger valve I sold him for $20 each so I'm going to install those too. I figure the car should run pretty darn good with all the exhaust and boost leaks fixed and probably set the boost at 12 psi after all the issues are fixed. Sound good?

dodgeshadowchik

08-02-2011, 07:48 AM

Sounds good thus far. 12psi is stock for the 2g's and should be ok on the stock fuel system.
LOL on the "tail light tinting."

I'm sure he will be thrilled to actually feel the car make some positive pressure for a change. ;)

iTurbo

08-06-2011, 11:21 PM

I got the car all back together today. It's a lot quieter now with all the exhaust leaks fixed, and it runs better, but there are still some issues. It was stalling out really bad, but I found all the parts to vent the BOV back into the inlet and that fixed the stalling/sputtering immediately. The Check Engine light was on, but apparently that was only because I had unplugged the cam sensor so it would get some oil to the turbo before actual startup. After disconnecting the (-) terminal for a few minutes and a couple test drives, no codes have come back and the check engine light is not coming back on either.

Still, the car doesn't seem to have much throttle response. It makes boost now and is definitely making more power, but the low RPM performance is soggy at best. Any ideas what to check? I know the turbine housing had a pretty big crack adjacent to the wastegate passage, but I don't know if it would negatively affect driveability this much. I also need to look at the vacuum diagram dodgeshadowchik posted and see if that is OK.... tomorrow I will likely be installing boost and A/F gauge in a pillar pod that the kid brought over and I may just throw the 'ol grainger on it and see how it likes 10 psi for starters. Probably change the spark plugs too.

iTurbo

08-06-2011, 11:44 PM

Oh yeah, where can I tee in for the vac/boost gauge hookup? Will it be OK to tee into the line for the BOV, or is there somewhere else that would work better?

After thinking about the soggy low RPM driveability issue, I'm having a bad feeling the cams might be out a little. That's what it feels like to me anyway.

iTurbo

08-11-2011, 01:16 AM

Just a small update, today the guy came over again and I helped him install Autometer UltraLite vac/boost and narrow band A/F gauges. I also put a grainger valve on the car....We got done installing the gauges and verified everything was working OK including the factory O2 sensor. We ended up with the boost via grainger valve at about 14 psi.... everything looks really good as far as the gauges and I must say I never heard a hint of detonation the entire time and the A/F gauges is full rich at WOT. I told him what to listen for at WOT (rattling etc) and made sure he puts at least 91 octane in the car. He is pretty happy with the car as it is now... it hauls --- compared to when he first brought it over!

Seems like the car is running so much better that I'm having second thoughts on the cam timing being a problem. It doesn't have the low end torque that a TII would have, much less a 2.5 TI, but it does pull really good up top. He called me about an hour after we got done and said that the car stopped making boost at all and would only hit '0' on the gauge. I looked the car over and found the wastegate rod clip had gone missing and the rod fell off the puck! I told him it would cost about 25 cents to fix but it would have to wait until tomorrow as it was dark out.

I still think the car lags excessively considering it has a stock 14b, so the next step is to do put the boost leak tester on it and get all the boost leaks checked out. He is wanting exhaust for the car so that should help, but a new turbo would help a lot as well consering the huge crack in the turbing housing adjacent to the wastegate passage. I'm thinking that is really slowing the spoolup on it.

black86glhs

08-11-2011, 02:27 AM

Truthfully, they didn't have much on the low end. I worked at Jeep in the early 90's and drove the Talons. They would light up around 2500-3000 rpm IIRC.

dodgeshadowchik

08-11-2011, 08:57 AM

Yeah, thats true. The 2.2 and 2.5 engines are defiantly torquier. A lot of that is the design of the cylinder head and intake/exhaust. The old TM's have the intake and exhaust manifolds coming off the one side; like the Jeep 4.0L. This gives you more low-end torque. The 4g63, and most DOHC cars; for that matter, see need to be revved higher to see the power.

JT told me that when the first 4.6L Mustang Cobra came out, people complained that it was slow. Well, they were shifting and driving it like the old 302... but that 4.6 was a DOHC in that car... so it needed to be revved out higher. Once people caught onto that, the times improved.

The lag shouldn't be that bad on a 14b.. so I think you're right in that you need to double check for boost leaks and such. Also, how big is that FMIC on it? Have a feeling it might be too big for that turbo? The crack probably isn't helping, either. As for exhaust... it will introduce another problem; boost creep. The best way to head off that is to port the 02 housing, and the turbine housing..including the wastegate hole. At that point, he mind's well look into an EVO316g.

BTW... does he have any engine management on there?

But on a side note... glad it's running better!

Orangetona

08-11-2011, 03:11 PM

Yeah...it helps keep the hacks away from it. Usually if you have a nice running car it tends to keep the hacks away from rigging it up to work.

MB and I just talked about this lol. :D

dodgeshadowchik

08-11-2011, 04:58 PM

LOL.. yes.. yes we did..

for s and g's here's some pics of the car form May 2010 to now.

iTurbo

08-12-2011, 07:19 PM

Wow DSC that car is way nicer than the one I have been working on! Do you still roll in the 2.0 or did you sell it off for the Mustang?

I got a wierd problem with the car now though. Back when we were turning the grainger up (we stopped at 14 psi), we brought the car back to my place and the coolant overflow bottle was "boiling over". According to the gauge in the cluster the car's temp was normal though (midway). He told me his dad had replaced the thermostat....is there anyway it could have went in backwards? Or is this sounding like blown head gasket? I suppose I'll check the spark plugs again next. This probably seems like a real newbie question but to tell you the truth I don't think I've ever had a blown head gasket on one of my cars; definitely haven't seen anything like this before after a couple boosted pulls on the highway with my own turbo cars.

shackwrrr

08-12-2011, 07:51 PM

How strong is the cap, and how strong is the antifreeze mixture? Usually fan turn on temps are close to 215 or so and after shutdown hotspots in the head will boil the mixture over.

black86glhs

08-13-2011, 01:34 AM

I was thinking the cap is weak also.

iTurbo

08-13-2011, 12:44 PM

Thanks. We haven't seen the car do that since it did it the first and only time. I think I probably didn't get all the air worked out of the cooling system and it was creating hotspots in the head. I refilled the cooling system and it seems OK now. I did bug him about getting a new radiator cap though, as the one on there looked original 6lb cap.

I also got the rod back on the wastegate with an 11¢ clip from hardware store and boost was right back to where it was before. One of his friends broke one of the shifter cables as well but I got it put back together. The actual cable came out of the outer sheath near the trans but I got it pushed back inside the clip/bracket and it seems OK now. I've had the same kind of thing happen to A568/A523 cables and after driving the car I already knew what had happened so thankfully it was also a free fix.

Seems really happy with the car though....he called me up late last night because he had won a street race against an '07 2.7L Hyundai Tiburon:love:

BoostedDrummer

08-13-2011, 03:54 PM

Where are the video's of this thing?? I say you get one of you and him running your SL or the GLH in you sig! :D

iTurbo

08-14-2011, 11:49 AM

Ha I wish I could get videos! Unfortunately my Shelby Lancer is having some driveability issues related to an aftermarket cal and the GLH is buried in my garage.

Yesterday the guy brought the Eclipse back AGAIN! It's kinda funny in a way how totally newb this guy and his friends are. One of his friends has a Subaru STI ('07?) and had to have me show him how to replace a fuse in his car! The guy with the Eclipse is bent on having a loud BOV and actually wanted me to take the recirc stuff off so it would vent to atmosphere and be louder. I told him the car stalls out all the time with it that way and he'll get sick of it in a hurry, but hey it's your car. I explained why this happened but they didn't understand at all how a MAF worked in the first place.

He says it still overheats so I'm going to see about replacing the thermostat and radiator cap and take the time to bleed the system thoroughly. I looked around on a couple DSM forums and it seems like a faulty radiator cap causing the coolant to boil in the overflow tank is pretty common.