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View Full Version : replaced front crank seal, sounds like no oil



Murphy
07-09-2011, 08:28 PM
My car started losing oil really bad from the front of the engine. It got to the point of the lifters tapping, but never knocking. I went in and replaced the front main seal. When it pulled it into the garage, it wasn't even tapping. After putting everything back together, I start the engine, and it sounds like there is no oil in it. I have oil pressure at about 3/4 of the gauge at idle. In replacing the seal, I did not pull off anything that had a gasket on it, i was able to pull the old seal out by hand.

Ondonti
07-09-2011, 09:37 PM
not really sure what you mean by no oil in it. The engine won't make a noise because you have a leak. If you lost oil pressure the bearings are what I worry about.

RoadWarrior222
07-09-2011, 09:40 PM
Did you change the oil? I've found a couple of brands that sound like arse... and how long did this take? IF you drive it daily and never hear tap, it's a different thing when it's been sitting 2 or 3 days, they'll bleed down. If it persists after holding it at 2000 RPM for 30 secs or so, worry, if it clears up, don't.

Murphy
07-10-2011, 10:57 AM
theres the tapping which I'm not worried about but there also sounds to be bottom end noise, or something banging around that sounds really bad. I never lost oil pressure. I replaced the oil with the same brand I had it in before I blew out the front crank seal. It only took a few hours to do the front crank seal.

Murphy
07-10-2011, 01:21 PM
I started it up again and it didn't sound too bad. There's definitely a new sound, almost like a diesel at idle when the engine is cold. I drove it to work and back (40 miles). It runs great and isn't leaking oil

RoadWarrior222
07-10-2011, 02:09 PM
hmmm maybe the piston pins got a little loose from lack of lube when it was leaking and it's piston slap.

Ondonti
07-10-2011, 09:08 PM
how bad was your oil leak?

Murphy
07-10-2011, 09:25 PM
pretty much a steady drip. I would lose a quart every approximately 20 minutes. It still held good oil pressure.

minigts
07-10-2011, 09:35 PM
I tried sealing the oil pan twice with cork gaskets and had an oil leak like that. Not sure how you sealed the pan (if you pulled it), but if you didn't seal it well on the install you'd have an oil leak similar to that. Worth checking.

tsiconquest88
07-10-2011, 09:36 PM
probably a combo of wristpin slap and upper end sound is prob some beat up lifters.

turbovanmanČ
07-11-2011, 01:14 AM
Timing belt too tight? Idler noisey? Waterpump noisey? Timing belt hitting covers?

Ondonti
07-11-2011, 05:47 AM
I don't think you have any sort of piston slap going on. Bad sounds in a 3.0 are either really bad, or harmless.
Multiple times I have thought there was a problem and it was an exhaust leak that sounded like metal on metal.

Check if any of the lifters are soggy. Post up a video of the sound.

tsiconquest88
07-11-2011, 08:10 AM
lol- i thought he's been talking about a 2.2 or 2.5 lol

Murphy
07-11-2011, 11:28 PM
so I drove the car to school today. I drove it 40 miles yesterday and the tone didn't change so I was thinking(hoping) i thats something in the timing belt area, or a dead lifter. I got about 3/4 of the way to school and the sound got worse. When I went to leave school, the engine ran for a minute then died. when I cranked it, it sounds like it has no compression. I pulled off the front cam cover and the cam gear did move when I cranked the engine. I'm going to have it towed home tomorrow and pull off the valve covers and oil pan to see what happened.

I know it was stupid move driving the car when it was making a bad noise, but I can never learn things the easy way....

Big_P
07-11-2011, 11:37 PM
you and me both, my man.

Murphy
07-11-2011, 11:42 PM
I am REALLY wondering about what happened since it was driving smooth and strong for 50 miles then got worse. I don't think its bottom end related, but that might just be wishful thinking. It didn't sound like a rod knock, at least not like you hear in a 2.2/2.5 engine.

minigts
07-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Good luck Murph, I hope it's nothing too expensive to fix. :(

Ondonti
07-12-2011, 03:30 AM
Junkyard engine be cheap n fast!

I drove 1000+ miles on a spun bearing, and it never let go. I split a piston in half (after already killing 4 ringlands) and that was the only thing that could stop her. 3.0 rod knock is something that is obvious to someone familiar with 3.0's but not to people who work with other engines. That motor I drove 1000+ miles (including Washington to Utah), nobody would agree that it was rod knock. Mechanic said he thought it was okay to drive back to school in the car. I was still able to drive the car home 4 miles, but I bought some oil to keep replacing it as I drove home.

Thats why 3/S people just ask to hear some audio. 3.0 rod knock is hallow sounding but not very loud.
I had another motor with a bad bearing that I installed after that (was in the spare tire well in the duster, in a foot of water) and I just threw in a new bearing, didn't know what I was doing. That motor made a terrible clattering sound then locked up. I took it apart and nothing was wrong inside except that the bearing spun again. Not sure if the piston contacted the head or what.

3.0 spun bearings are always caused by low oil unless you have a weird issue like detonation breaking the piston and the piston smashing that ringland against the head and blowing out the bearing :eyebrows:
That means they are always preventable.

RoadWarrior222
07-12-2011, 10:12 AM
Something that I thought was rod knock ended up coming from the tranny. :D

Ondonti
07-13-2011, 05:26 AM
yeah, they thought my rod knock was intermediate shaft sound "getting worse"
Of course that sound would go away with the clutch in but who really has their brain on duty when it really matters.

Vigo
07-14-2011, 02:11 AM
I guess i am late to this but i have heard a 3.0 make a nasty rattling/clanging sound from the water pump. And coincidentally, a water pump is driven by a timing belt which can cause the motor to sound like no compression if something goes wrong.. Id check the pump when you get into it.

RoadWarrior222
07-14-2011, 10:08 AM
Yeah, usually when they're doing that tingtingtingting thing the shaft is off center and they're eating the belt and seeping.

Vigo
07-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Its hard to type out noises but ive heard something a lot more like a rod knock than tingtingting. It sounded more like rocks in a can when revving. It wasnt as rhythmic as a rod knock but made basically the same noise. My employer at that time used that case to test my guessing powers. I failed on that one. I said it was a rod knock.

Murphy
07-14-2011, 07:57 PM
That sounds pretty close to what this is. I got the car towed home. I got a research paper due next monday so I haven't had a chance to dig into the car yet.

RoadWarrior222
07-14-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah, the ting is when it's hitting light, it sounds more like gremlins with hammers if it gets to hard contact, it's usually obvious it's coming from that side of the motor though, and you get loads of brass shavings showing on the rad cap from the bearing wearing crooked.

Murphy
07-28-2011, 05:37 PM
front cam spins, but I can see the timing belt is a bit loose. It looks like the front cam is about 90* off. Maybe I didn't tighten down the tentioner enough and it was banging back and forth.

these are non interference engines right?

RoadWarrior222
07-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Yes, unless you ask the average shop, lots in the trade seem to be misinformed about it.

Murphy
07-28-2011, 08:34 PM
ya I think most manual tell you they are interference

Ondonti
07-28-2011, 09:58 PM
Long as you are not 10:1 ;)

Hoping its all happy.

Sundance 6g72
07-29-2011, 02:02 AM
Yes, unless you ask the average shop, lots in the trade seem to be misinformed about it.

they think anything Mitsubishi is interference..

RoadWarrior222
07-29-2011, 09:43 AM
Long as you are not 10:1 ;)

Hoping its all happy.

Yeah, diamante pistons, 24V pistons or shaved heads can get you anything from light to full interference...

Personally though I think the valves are pretty damn close and I wouldn't want the belt to let go at 6000 RPM... particularly in an older motor where the wrist pins and rod bearings might be a touch loose. Wouldn't expect major carnage (unless boosting) but could find the heads on a couple of valves are knocked askew.

Ondonti
07-30-2011, 03:15 PM
My +2 intake valves barely touched the forged pistons with a big cam. I had them fly cut to keep it non interference.

Murphy
08-01-2011, 03:21 PM
pulled it apart, the tentioner was set at the lowest position. Reinstalled the timing belt, tentioned it properly this time, and put it back together. Runs good, I just drove it about 50 miles.

Ondonti
08-01-2011, 04:11 PM
Did you crank down the bolt on the tensioner? I don't rely on the spring, I push then tensioner over with a wrench ALL the way and then tighten it down.

Murphy
08-01-2011, 04:27 PM
ya the bolt on the tensioner is tight. Its got about as much tension on it as it can.

Vigo
08-01-2011, 08:30 PM
So the tensioner was rattling and making the noise? Sounds like you caught it before it got even more annoying. :)

Ondonti
08-01-2011, 09:43 PM
Murph tried to kill it and failed!