used wrong head bolt removal sequince. did i screw the heads?

[Sundance 6g72]

so my manual says that the sequence goes

1 5 8 4

2 6 7 3

basically you go from outside in. i went from inside out. i thought thats how your supposed to do it and i didnt have the manual handy at the time.

these are not the heads on my car. they are junkyard heads that i have yet to completely pull and have not paid for them. should i just close the head and find a different 3.0 or should the heads still be good? i dont really want to chance it.

[shackwrrr]

you wont hurt anything.unless you have the engine hanging from the head or the engine is hot there wont be any issues.

[Sundance 6g72]

engine was deff as cold as it gets and the motor was still on all 4 mounts. i just dont want to have the machine shop tell me the heads are bad. im getting a good deal $60 for a pair of heads but id hate to waste my time.

[22mopar]

for you, it really doesn't matter how you take the bolts loose. you can start in the middle, end or what ever other sequence you can come up with and all will be just fine.

[Vigo]

I agree. It really doesnt matter. Certain engines are picky, but afaik this one sure isnt.

[RoadWarrior222]

I don't think you hurt it, if it was was a warm motor and you went right to left or vice versa it might have done something. Putting 'em back on it's more critical, or the gasket might not seat right, or it might shift and leak when it warms up. If you get 'em off and find them warped, it probably wasn't you.

[Sundance 6g72]

well the heads are off. ill need to inspect them later when i have time.

[Shadowv4l]

check it with a straight edge, removal isnt quite as important as installation as far as bolt sequence goes. I know guys that will use an air gun to romove the bolts in any pattern they choose and they havent had an issue, not saying I would do that to my own car but ive seen it alot.

[Sundance 6g72]

i love your P bodys ^ ^

ill be sure to check the heads, im sure they are fine

the car was clean as hell. had a timing belt job, headgasket job, and the interior was in amazing condition. Im sure the tranny (4spd) was shot and thats why it was in the yard. im sure the heads are fine

considering there was new headgaskets on the car... i wonder if they had the heads off to fix the valve issue? im going to replace the guides anyways but id be willing to be that these heads dont burn oil.

[Shadowv4l]

there was a tsb out for the valve guides, they were supposed to be notched and a clip installed on the mid section of the guide that stopped them from dropping. My 1994 came from factory with this tsb already performed, but im sure there are some 1993 and older cars out there without this tsb treatment. My suggestion would be to check the guides that are in the heads, if they are ok then let them go or do the tsb, if they are dropped - replace and perform the tsb. If the heads have alot of miles on them and the guides didnt drop then im sure theyll be fine for the remainder of the vehicles life. I recently rebuilt another 3.0L @100,000 miles and checked the guides and none of them had dropped, the valve seals were getting old so i just replaced the guide seals and didnt worry about the tsb. This stopped the vehicle's oil burning issue and i now own the car and its gotta be one of the most healthy 3.0L engines I have seen (next to my 94's 3.0L which has 200,000 miles on it and running strong)

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, I'm sure there's thousands of these blowing a little blue and the mechanic says "guides" and in the next breath, a 4 figure sum to repair, and they got sent to the yards... when in the later ones it would be pretty much always the seals, or PCV system messed up, and on older ones, probably 80% chance of that too.

[Sundance 6g72]

im hoping my guides are the cause of my oil burning. my burning is very inconsistent. sometimes it smokes when i tap the throttle, sometimes it dosnt. but it has gotten worse.

i put down 147hp and 168lb on the dyno to the wheels and my compression was good when i checked it a month or so ago.

how will i know if the guides are dropped? ive never done headwork before on ANYTHING

[Shadowv4l]

well.... chances are that not all of them dropped, so compare the dropped ones to the ones that look like they are the correct height. i dont have a measurement in front of me but before you do any work i would pick up a service manual, its nice to have it for reference. Bad valve seals will cause a smoke issue when the vehicle sits at a stop light for a breif moment and then you hit the gas, the oil has time to build up and then you step on it to accelerate and all the oil blows out the back and you see a blue cloud. If you are pulling the heads i recommend a quick valve lapping while youre in there, just dont mix them up and lable EVERYTHING, just in case.

[Sundance 6g72]

well i bought the junkyard heads so i can rebuild them while having a running car.

i plan on replacing the valve seals and any other seal (wear part) for that matter.

i plan on sending the cams to crowler to get the regrind that brent likes to recommend to people.
stiffer valve springs recommended by ED
LSI retainers
comp locks.. think thats what they are.. ed recommended them (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-623-16/

new valve guide for sure

MLS head gaskets

i think thats all i need. im still a little confused on what is in the head?? when im told to get LS1 locks and retainers and then ed also says he recommends the comp cam 623 (comes up as what they call a "Lock" so do i use those with the LS1 retainers and just forget about the LS1 locks?

im going to get the car running on megasquirt and once the heads are rebuild correctly im going to take a week and put the car in my buddys garage and give it an overhall

new head install
timing belt and water pump replacement (set base timing to 12* preparing for turbo)
KMP crossover turbo mount
60AR turbo
6puck clutch
33# injectors
255 walbro fuel pump
FMIC, bov, etc (still need to order these parts along with oil lines for the turbo, but everything else is sitting right here)

i already have the 3inch exhaust, 52mm TB and intake spacers with the plenum flipped and ported out.


i just cant see me boosting the car with an engine that burns oil. just dosnt make sense.

[Sundance 6g72]

i did a little research. if im understanding right, the term "valve lock and retainer" is just one thing?

Ed told me to use LS1 retainers but also recommended that i use http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-623-16/ instead.

[RoadWarrior222]

yup, and those are LS1 retainers, so he's pointing you at what he thinks are the best LS1 retainers.

[Sundance 6g72]

well it looks like ill be getting the following

3.3 Chrysler Valve springs (unless there is a better option, im still open to a different spring)
Stock LS1 retainers (open to the ones ED prefers but im not sure what the benefit is. im trying to rev to 7000-7200)
new valve guides
new valve stem seals
all other seals that come with my felpro headgasket set
felpro MLS head gaskets
crower cams (custom regrind E-27829

[22mopar]

There is no benifit to running the 3.3 valve springs over the stock 3.0 stuff.

[Sundance 6g72]

apparently they are stiffer or something with the install height.

edit: ED said this when asked if 3.3 springs with ls1 retainers where a good option for higher revving.


Don't know, I have only taken them to 7200.

They measured 100 lbs on the seat.

[Sundance 6g72]

i cant find where to buy stock ls1 retainers. i found the locks but cant find retainers

[bond_bbs]

http://www.lmperformance.com/6325/74.html

Not sure if those are exact, as I'm still running factory valvetrain. But these are Comp LS1/2/6 valve locks.

[Ondonti]

My Old 94 Spirit motor was diagnosed as having poor ring seal, Still went 14.8@92mph, but when I eventually took the motor apart you could see the evidence of poor ring seal, with dark brown pistons where it was leaking. It went 13.9@101 on the Ebay turbo. I have never had a valve guide seal oil burner.
Just pointing out that while it might make good power, it might not be in perfect shape. I only reringed this shortblock because it was a motor delivered to my old house and was crap from day 1. Leaking valves and rings = yuck. Still got great mileage.

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------


There is no benifit to running the 3.3 valve springs over the stock 3.0 stuff.

There is when you are able to drop retainer size, and the 3.3 springs actually measure out to be about 100# when brand new. 190k mile 3.0 springs can sorta handle 7000 rpms on a huge cam, so a slight upgrade/weight loss + new springs should be golden.

[Sundance 6g72]

what about the Schneider 6610 springs? from what i understand they are a drop in replacement (no need to get new locks and retainers)

and regrind E-27829 should be able to make power at 7200rpms right? this is the cam you recommend on 3si

im starting to think i can just get that regrind and the 6610 springs and ill be all set. but then i start to get worried about my lifters at 7000rpms


edit: brent, my oil burning is really inconsistent. the only time its noticeable is if i let the car sit and i tap the gas in Neutral. when im driving its really not there at all unless i give the car hell and then it sometimes shows up. i was told my compression test numbers where good and that it sounds like i have a dropped valve guide. hopefully thats the case

[Ondonti]

The valvetrain is all up to you. Those will work but its not as sexy. We are lucky with our valves because we have the more modern style groove lock so the parts will work with OEM reliability for us.