Has my headgasket taken a dump ?

[135sohc]

Noticed some rough running this morning, this afternoon I pulled the plug wires one at a time to see if there was a difference and there wasnt. Lately the dipstick has had oil come out of it, little amount like you would see on a boosted engine with a bad pcv setup. Today both the dipstick and oil filler cap had very large amount of non oily clouds of ??? billowing out of them :(

Just what I didnt need right now...:banghead:

Engine is a 2.2 tbi, 260k. I did the headgasket in early 2008, just over 3 years ago to the month @ 232k. Didnt get anything resurfaced at the time since it checked out ok. Used a mopar (stock) gasket & headbolts.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Should've used a Felpro :D lol j/k

Sounds like either the head gasket, or possibly the rings are just worn out (I know, it's only 260k, but still... lol). Do a compression test.

[135sohc]

This engine blows oil out of the fresh air inlet to the valve cover from the airbox so they probably are gone to some degree.

[135sohc]

Looks like I'll be putting together a new engine sooner rather than later :bolt:

Found the source of the mystery transmission oil leak was not the transmission but rather all the blow by oil dripping out of the airbox... After todays little jaunt on the highway looks like a quart of 10w30 was sprayed in the engine bay.

[22mopar]

that's indicative of major blow by.

[135sohc]

Its been giving the signs of bad engine health for awhile now. I knew this day would come, just would have liked it to wait a couple more months to really take a dump.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Too bad you are so far away, I have a great running 2.2 TBI for sale :)

[135sohc]

how much $

[Force Fed Mopar]

I dunno, maybe like $250. I have heard it run, wasn't noisy and no smoke. Only thing that was really wrong w/ the car was the clutch and some minor body damage. It's in a '94 Shadow 4dr, I priced it locally once when it was still easily crankable for $350. I could probably still crank it, I think the starter and fuel lines and whatnot are all still hooked up. I sold the shifter and cables, clutch pedal assy, rear brake parts, brake booster etc. I forget the mileage but I want to say it is around 150k.

I might can arrange to have it shipped fairly cheap too. Junkyard we have connections with may send it via R&L for us. I sent a Corvair engine with them once from here to FL and it was only $140.

[135sohc]

Took the spare block, crank & 2 heads to the machine shop to get an assessment on condition. one head was warped across the center like an arch including the cam tower so its junk unless I spent lots of $$ to get it shaved quite a bit and probably would have to oversize the journals and fit with bearings to get it squared up, other bare head looked good, it was all straight and true. Block will require .020 over because of some rust pitting... oops :o and the crank was still well within standard/standard :)


$300 + parts (I'm not putting used junk back in) to have the head fully serviced and assembled.

$50 for the crank serviced

$200 + parts for the block to be decked, bored, new I shaft bearings installed and hot tanked. Retaining the stock bolts.


forgot to ask about the connecting rods...

[cordes]

260K isn't too bad. See if you can get 300K out of this next one.

[22mopar]

head gasket failure won't be putting oil into the air box... bad rings/cracked piston ring lands will do that.

[135sohc]

Yeah I know. But to make certain people happy, satisfy myself that my headgasket install wasnt bad and just for the heck of it I did borrow a pressure tester. cranked it up to 16 lbs and its still holding just as fine after 6+ hours :)

[Mopar318]

Sounds like major blow by. Probally worn out ring, maybe the top ring is cracked along with cracked ring lands. Lots of boost will do that quick to crap pistons.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Sounds like major blow by. Probally worn out ring, maybe the top ring is cracked along with cracked ring lands. Lots of boost will do that quick to crap pistons.

It's a TBI ;)

[Mopar318]

Oops, didn't read that part..haha!

[135sohc]

Hmm....... This is getting good. Today I pulled the head to have a look-see and found something good. Exhaust valve #4 was short 1 valve lock... retainer and rocker arm were lightly gouged from everything sitting crooked.

Totally pulling a longshot here but if the valve wasnt closing fully and the compression was blowing past up the now very worn guide and probably bent and burnt valve seat/face. it would take the path of least out the vent tube to the airbox and even pressurising the crankcase to some degree ?

I really dont want to drop the pan and pull the pistons if its something this stupid causing such a fuss.

On a good note the cylinder head is perfectly flat across the deck and cam towers :)

[cordes]

I doubt that would be the cause of the oil loss you're describing unless there is a real problem with the piston in that cyl. I could believe that cyl has some problems with the ex. valve not closing and being canted though.

[135sohc]

before anything else is done I am going to have the head pressure tested to see if that valve is leaking. From what I could see the cylinders looked ok, of course #4 was at TDC and I was out of time to look further so rust inhibitor was sprayed on everything and covered up. for the cost of a headgasket that apparently is probably expired and I wouldnt trust and cleaning up the old headbolts to reuse them. I'll probably have the head fully rebuilt and then put it bare with just the timing belt and do another compression test. if it passes yay do the victory dance, take it apart and put everything together for real.

If cylinder #4 is still down for the count then the pain and misery can come to play.

Those rod bolts just scare me. of the millions if not billions of work cycles they've been through I would not trust them if reused. new rod bolts would open up another can of worms.

[135sohc]

Some wanna-be carnage pictures: piston #4


3163731636


bearing shells looked good.
31638

[Reeves]

Did it have any knock at all?

[135sohc]

Not that I know of... short of running 85 octane in death valley in the middle of july I dont think a TBI engine could ever even try to detonate ? Or maybe one of those shove it into 3rd @ 65 to pass an azzhole tricks finally caught up with me ?

[Reeves]

Not that I know of... short of running 85 octane in death valley in the middle of july I dont think a TBI engine could ever even try to detonate ? Or maybe one of those shove it into 3rd @ 65 to pass an azzhole tricks finally caught up with me ?

That was going to be my guess.....really bad gas or something causing pinging. How does your intermediate shaft look? Any teeth chewed up?

[135sohc]

I didnt remove it yet but I did just remove the oil pump to give a cleaning and refresh with new internals. drive gear looks good, its worn certainly but nothing I would call abnormal or to be concerned about compared to some of the carnage pictures shown by others.

I see I'm now worthy of being in your signature :love: :lol:

[Reeves]

I didnt remove it yet but I did just remove the oil pump to give a cleaning and refresh with new internals. drive gear looks good, its worn certainly but nothing I would call abnormal or to be concerned about compared to some of the carnage pictures shown by others.

I see I'm now worthy of being in your signature :love: :lol:

If the oil pump gear ain't chewed up, then you are most likely fine on your intermediate shaft gear as well.

Like the sig line? :drum:

[135sohc]

I have a new set of bearings on the shelf for the I shaft so I'll probably just replace them while doing everything else.

[135sohc]

And the other 3 piston/rods have been removed. All three had the top ring broken exactly like the #4 piston WTF?!?! :confused2:

The breaks all had bright spots on either side like they had been broken and rubbing or blowing by for quite some time... Dont think my removal today did the breakage. WTF!!! :confused:

[black86glhs]

Maybe some bad gas caused it. Possibly a little lean during on of your 3 rd gear runs?

[cordes]

I figured it would look something like that. Glad to see that it's not worse.

[135sohc]

Rod bearings left to right 1-4, upper shell is the one on the left of the matched pairs.
31670


And the #2 and #4 lower main shells.. Not suprised but I was hoping to see them not quite so scratched up. There was some trash that got sucked up and pushed through the engine at some point in its life :(
31669

I ordered the melling oil pump overhaul kit and the one piece oil pan gasket from the store today. pricey little thing but hopefully the hassle it should save will be worth it.

I'm sort of 50/50 on dropping the crankshaft to have it measured and resized if needed. Because the transmission would have to be removed and by that point I might as well just remove the block and get it refreshed 100%.

[135sohc]

Block has been removed, will be getting a full (stock) rebuild. I have decided to take a change of direction on things...

Distributor drive gear cleaned up:
31684

[onerippinturbo2]

they dont look that bad at all, bearings look ok for the milage on them. didnt this lose a head gasket before? could have been coolant running through the bottom end, coolant and babbett dont get along.

[135sohc]

Just over 3 years ago (march/april 08 iirc) I did replace the original headgasket. It was leaking at the back corner of cylinder #1 where they all seem to go but it wasnt anything like a full blown headgasket going off like a fuse. Oil pan never turned into a chocolate milk carton. At that time all I did was clean everything up the best I could and put it back together with a new mopar gasket & bolts.

[135sohc]

God damn why the F!!! am I always the one to get screwed. Wednesday will be 3 weeks since dropping it off and twice now I've called/stopped by to inquire about the progress and both times its been a 'we'll get back with you'... Wednesday whether or not its even been touched I am picking the stuff up and if necessary going out of state to get this sh!t done. People around me ask me all the time why I fix my own stuff and generally have such an outgoing nasty untrusting opinion and attitude towards 'professionals' and this crap is why. I must have a big "Screw me at every opportunity" written across my forehead. After this BS is over expect to see a massive parts blowout in the FS section. I'm done and moving on.

[cordes]

God damn why the F!!! am I always the one to get screwed. Wednesday will be 3 weeks since dropping it off and twice now I've called/stopped by to inquire about the progress and both times its been a 'we'll get back with you'... Wednesday whether or not its even been touched I am picking the stuff up and if necessary going out of state to get this sh!t done. People around me ask me all the time why I fix my own stuff and generally have such an outgoing nasty untrusting opinion and attitude towards 'professionals' and this crap is why. I must have a big "Screw me at every opportunity" written across my forehead. After this BS is over expect to see a massive parts blowout in the FS section. I'm done and moving on.

I hear you. Once the machine shop has your stuff they know they've got you by the business. I waited for 2-3 months before I had to tell them that I was moving out of state and would be coming to get the motor whether it was done or not. I got the motor and had to install it a couple of days before I moved.

Best of luck to you.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, nice carnage, :p

Looks like a bad case of detonation broke the rings, doh!

You had a ticking time bomb with a set of those rod bearings, it started to go.

Any other machine shops you can go to?

[135sohc]

There is one other place thats actually in the same industrial park but they are extremely proud of their services. The one time I called there it was $100 to have a flywheel resurfaced... um yeah no thanks. maybe thats why they advertise a quick turnaround, cause they are never busy ?. I am not aware of any other legit machine shops in the southern maryland area.

I do trust this place to not lose my stuff and doing a quality job. But I dont think I put enough emphasis on needing this done sooner rather than later...

[Big_P]

I wrecked a TBI engine once by detonating. I did a HG on it and had the dist timing off one tooth and never checked it after I put the head on. Detonated. So it's definitely possible. Looks like you just got some bad gas though.

[135sohc]

All gasoline is bad today from all the garbage its cut with. Newer engines can deal with it better than these old things that were never meant to be run on this witches brew served up today :(

[Force Fed Mopar]

Yeah I think they are using ethanol to bump the oct so they can sell crappier gas at the same price as the good stuff :(

[Juggy]

Yeah I think they are using ethanol to bump the oct so they can sell crappier gas at the same price as the good stuff :(

in canada some fuel places such as sunoco (aka petro canada now) advertise right on the pump that they use up to 10% ethanol.....so yeah, the fuel is pretty much 10% leaner!

[Force Fed Mopar]

Well yeah, every pump says that here :p

[135sohc]

^^^ same here. There is nobody around here who doesnt sell blended gasoline. The ethanol BS is finally starting to fizzle :clap: so hopefully (although I wont count on it) maybe someday we will get our good gasoline back. This car used to get consistently 30-31 miles/gallon. past couple years really with ethanol its gone down to 26-27 miles/gallon.

[Force Fed Mopar]

^^^ same here. There is nobody around here who doesnt sell blended gasoline. The ethanol BS is finally starting to fizzle :clap: so hopefully (although I wont count on it) maybe someday we will get our good gasoline back. This car used to get consistently 30-31 miles/gallon. past couple years really with ethanol its gone down to 26-27 miles/gallon.

Is that city or hwy mpg? Or an average? Just wondering, because I just drove 275 miles today in my Shelby Z (see sig for mods), 90% of it hwy and got about 37 mpg, on Sunoco Ultra 93.

[135sohc]

Just the overall average for the lifetime of the car (had it since new). Driving around here is urban: Not stop-go city but not open steady highway/interstate for miles and miles.

[135sohc]

Next tuesday its supposed to be done...

[cordes]

Next tuesday its supposed to be done...

They are definitely friends with the last machine shop I used. best of luck.

[135sohc]

Chalking this one up to bad timing. He did apologize for taking so long but I guess its a good thing he is so busy because everyone around here speaks highly of the shop and the quality of the work they put out.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Chalking this one up to bad timing. He did apologize for taking so long but I guess its a good thing he is so busy because everyone around here speaks highly of the shop and the quality of the work they put out.

Yeah the shop I use here is like that, they are the best but you have to wait for it most of the time, as they do a lot of contract diesel work. Sometimes when they are slow they get stuff out quick, otherwise usually a month or so on small single order gas stuff.

[135sohc]

What color should I paint it ? Besides the OE black which is kinda ugly and hides the oil dripping stains.

I was thinking either big block turquoise blue if I can get it fast enough or just a generic chrysler blue (which I have about a dozen cans of). I'm going to call a local place tomorrow and see if and how much to get the valve cover stripped and powdercoated. The black has been flaking off for about 8 years now and its starting to look really nasty.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Cast iron gray :)