A520 grinding in most gears

[HoverFish]

You know what really grinds my gears? When I'm driving somewhere and have a hard time shifting. 2nd through 5th will grind, and sometimes not even go in when I'm driving hard.

I've been having this problem with 2nd for a while, but now 2nd grinds most of the time, even when I'm driving like a civilized human.

I adjusted the shift cables hoping that would clear it up, but no. When the gears grind, I have to back out to neutral and try again. Sometimes repeat a couple times.

Because it happens when I'm driving it hard, is this the a520 bearing plate flex I keep hearing about?

2.5 T1, practically stock rebuild with T2 Garrett and T2 intercooler, graingered at 10 PSI

[135sohc]

Grinding when shifting happens because the little dog teeth on the gears and the accompanying teeth on the slider/selector ring portion of the synchronizer assembly are not speed matching (synchronizing) to allow them to mesh smoothly. Aggravated even more so when driving hard/shifting fast as your giving it less time for the synchronizer to work its magic and speed match the input shaft to the output shaft.

If you double clutch second does it still grind ?

[turbovanman²]

What oil are you using in the trans?

Try synchromesh or Redline MTL.

[HoverFish]

I'm using plain ol' 5w30. It worked perfectly fine for about 4000 miles, then started getting worse and worse. The car's in another city at the moment so I can't try the double-clutch trick.

[turbovanman²]

It could also be your clutch isn't releasing properly.

[HoverFish]

Yeah, I wondered about that too.

[Vigo]

That would be my first guess, especially if it does it in most of the gears.

Easy way to check is start it up in gear (with the clutch down) on a FLAT surface and see if it creeps forward. It shouldnt move at all. Also, you can put the clutch down at a stop and slowly move the shifter towards reverse until you feel the teeth start to touch. You should be able to feel/hear them coming to a stop before the shifter goes into reverse. If you feel/hear that they never completely stop, its clutch problem. You dont need to use ANY pressure on the shifter to check this, because you're not trying to force it in, so be very light.

[HoverFish]

Alright, I picked up the car last night. I tried double-clutching, no difference noted. I tried what Vigo suggested, and nothing. It doesn't attempt to lurch forward, nor do I feel the gears turning when I move the shifter toward reverse. It doesn't seem to matter anymore whether I'm driving aggressively or not. Sitting at a light today I couldn't get it into 2nd for anything. The shifter felt like there was nothing there at all.

[cordes]

Are the cables in good shape?

[HoverFish]

As far as I can tell. I'm thinking it might be possible I didn't tighten the cable ends well enough when I adjusted the cables last, so I'll try a cable adjustment again, at least that's free.

[Vigo]

oooh so it felt like there was no resistance or no anything in that gear position??

In that case i would guess cable problems. Its possible for the cables to break/fail and then when you are using the direction that requires the cable to 'push' it will bulge out to the side instead of transmitting the force. Ive seen this happen at the tranny end between the cable bracket and the actual shift lever, and ive seen it near the exhaust where i accidentally melted through the sheath of a cable and it bulged out of the sheath.

[HoverFish]

Interesting. That's certainly a possibility.

[Vigo]

Should be very easy to verify with a second set of eyes, and maybe some jackstands. Is this on your van?

[HoverFish]

Yeah, I was thinking it would be easy with another person. I don't have a van, this is on the 89 LeBaron.

[Vigo]

oops, sorry. :p

[turbovanman²]

Hmmmmmm, well if it doesn't want to grind in reverse, that rules out the clutch, so if your cables are ok, then somehow, you killed all your synchro's.

Did you try a fluid change?

[135sohc]

Pull the shifter housing off and take a look inside.

[Shadow]

Either your shifter/cables are completly out of wack, or your shaft bearings are toast.

[shadow88]

Based on the initial description, my bet is on the clutch.

[Vigo]

If the reverse gears arent spinning with the clutch in, the clutch is releasing, so it cant be causing the grinding.

[HoverFish]

Pull the shifter housing off and take a look inside.

What would I be looking for? Obvious carnage?

I havne't had a chance to check out the cables yet. Or more specifically I haven't had another person available to help me check out the cables.

I found an a523, cables, shifter, clutch and flywheel almost locally (a couple hours away) for cheap. I might just go pick that up. I kinda want the newer shift pattern anyway... unless someone can make a good argument for keeping the 520 other than the 3.50 FD ratio for better gas mileage on the highway.

[135sohc]

Pretty much. Try moving the forks with your hand and see if you can get them to move manually. If the oil looks like anti-seize or is very dirty with lots of metal contamination something is wrong.
If its an earlier one it could also be a 3.50 final drive. Chances are its probably not but you never know until you look at the tag.

If your 520 is an '89' (the 1-2 gears will NOT have brass cones like 3-4-5) then you could in theory swap the ring gear and pinion shaft into the 523 to keep the 3.50 FD. The only downfall being you could have to at the very least buy the bearing race/collar ($100 @ dealer) and press it onto the end of the shaft to use w/larger bearing in the 523 case. The bearing is another $100 if you changed it.

[Vigo]

I kinda want the newer shift pattern anyway... unless someone can make a good argument for keeping the 520


uhhhh. nope. lol.

[HoverFish]

Well, then that settles that. I'm going 523 as soon as I can go pick it up.

[HoverFish]

... or not. I finally got a chance to get my brother to help look at the cables while moving the shifter, and it turns out the selector lever was loose on the transmission... the bolt somehow worked its way loose, enough for the lever to not turn the shaft far enough every time. The grinding was because I was letting the clutch out with the trans partly but not all the way in gear.

So, since the fix was free, I'm back on the fence as to whether to pick up that 523 or not.

[135sohc]

Its a better transmission in nearly every aspect. Go for it if the price is right.

[Vigo]

... or not. I finally got a chance to get my brother to help look at the cables while moving the shifter, and it turns out the selector lever was loose on the transmission... the bolt somehow worked its way loose, enough for the lever to not turn the shaft far enough every time. The grinding was because I was letting the clutch out with the trans partly but not all the way in gear.


Glad to hear you got it fixed, and free too.

If it was me i wouldnt do the work to swap from 520 to 523 if i didnt have any other excuse like having to take it apart anyway or having all the parts etc.

[HoverFish]

Well, I do intend to upgrade the clutch before too long, so I'd be most of the way there to do the 523 swap anyway... 4 nuts that hold the shifter to the floor and 2 that hold the plug in the floor for the cables.

[Vigo]

Good point.. So whats your decision? :p

[HoverFish]

Haha... I'll go 523 if I can get out there before the guy sells it to someone else.