The Holset he341 3.0L

[Ondonti]

Nicely done, can't complain about that at all.

What happened to the video of the 12 sec pass?

You tell me. Some moderator is in here deleting everything including the thread update. I made a thread in the 3.0 section simply because its easier to find stuff like that in the specific section. Not everyone reads the 3.0 section.
I vote no for arbitrary rules. Maybe make sense if the forum wasn't half dead. Lets kill it some more AND not contribute.



So this is a completely new post with possibly new information!
Reference http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?77773-Turbo-3-0-Daily-Driver-runs-12-9-106#post1076758

Look, a member of the forum has a running car and it raced :confused:
10psi and 15 year old 24.5x8x15 MT slicks. I don't think the tires will hold much more power. One of them certainly doesn't hold air since I have to put air in it every 5-10 minutes and overfill it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUKOOZxjTo

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY4051.jpg

[Ondonti]

I have the heads that came from "6g72 Sundance"s turbo 3.0 over with Ed Kelly getting ported. Still not sure what I am doing about cams. My cam grinder is out of the game, so I am still not sure where I want to go with cams. Thinking about having Delta copy my old cams and redo them a bit, maybe weld and not remove as much base circle. I didn't want them to touch the cams previously but I would no longer be affecting anyone's business.

I am not sure what setup I want to race the car with next. Stock heads/cams is a bit more interesting for at least a few attempts.

Car is currently running 60#Deka High Impedence injectors, still a BEGI MR2035 rising rate regulator at 2.5:1 ratio, and then an AEM FIC piggyback for fuel and timing. Still stock 6200 rpm limiter. Currently at 13psi boost where it was not found reliable so I had to turn down the timing a bit more than I already had.
Diaphragm has failed again in the regulator, which is making it very annoying to drive to work. Fuel cleans the grease off the pressure piston and causes it to stick. Should have fixed it tonight.

Pulling timing mentioned above didn't hurt power. I wanted to run more boost but stopped when it ate a piston at the track before I even started my pass. Tried to burn off pump gas and got impatient and tried to make a pass to burn fuel faster while the motor was super hot from idling for 30 minutes. Supercharged SRT8 Hemi Jeep challenged me to a run and I got stupid forgetting the motor was hot. There is nothing to account for a 225 degree engine vs a 180 degree engine. I popped a piston in from my old 11 second junkyard motor. Still a few left in there. Chrome rings were still intact, but I had to drill the piston to get them loose.

[bond_bbs]

I have the heads that came from "6g72 Sundance"s turbo 3.0 over with Ed Kelly getting ported. Still not sure what I am doing about cams. My cam grinder is out of the game, so I am still not sure where I want to go with cams. Thinking about having Delta copy my old cams and redo them a bit, maybe weld and not remove as much base circle. I didn't want them to touch the cams previously but I would no longer be affecting anyone's business.

What were his heads running? Are they the 3.3L Beehive springs with LS1 Locks / Retainers? I see BM is gone, so I can't refer to the head thread that you guys had running on there. I'm also curious what cam profiles people run for regrinds.

My build right now is using a mild port/polish/valve angle grind, but the cams and valvetrain are factory. I'm picking up a second set of heads, and going to have them full port/polished, valve job, and was hoping to do the springs/locks/retainers and cams.

[Ondonti]

What were his heads running? Are they the 3.3L Beehive springs with LS1 Locks / Retainers? I see BM is gone, so I can't refer to the head thread that you guys had running on there. I'm also curious what cam profiles people run for regrinds.

My build right now is using a mild port/polish/valve angle grind, but the cams and valvetrain are factory. I'm picking up a second set of heads, and going to have them full port/polished, valve job, and was hoping to do the springs/locks/retainers and cams.

All the good info is gone unless Kevin Franzen pulls it back and shares it with us. Maybe payback
I am pretty upset about that data loss.

Take any kind of cam if we can get the limiter increased. I just want a very specialized cam

[Force Fed Mopar]

I have the cam card somewhere for the Crower customs that came in the black Daytona.

[Ondonti]

Built a pressure tester to plug into my turbo intake and found the previously noticed cracked core guard on my intercooler actually breached the end tank. Was previously repaired. Terrible job tig welding later and I could notice that the plenum was now leaking worse than the intercooler. Seems like no easy way to seal the ported plenum. Probably gonna get ditched in the future

Hooked up a single nozzle methanol system to play with using non standard location and parts from a Snow performance tow max setup.
Bought a new intercooler halfway through welding the old one. No idea how to support it so not sure if it's getting installed. Much heavier bar/plate than my old trusty oddball tube/fin.

[Ondonti]

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/20170503_170306_2.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/20170503_170306_2.jpg.html)
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[Ondonti]

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- - - Updated - - -

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[Force Fed Mopar]

Ooooo snap....

[lightbulb010]

Curious about how those homemade diaphragms are working out for you. Did you ever find out what the material is? I have tried to make my own before and was never able to find something that didn't stretch out or harden quickly. I'm using my RRR with my megasquirt. Static fuel pressure for now. When I go back to boosted I will want to hook the vacuum line back up.

When you made that spectrogram were you using the stock knock sensor in the diamante block or some other kind of knock mic? If you already stated that somewhere I'm sorry.

Great to see some updates on your car!:thumb:

[Ondonti]

Curious about how those homemade diaphragms are working out for you. Did you ever find out what the material is? I have tried to make my own before and was never able to find something that didn't stretch out or harden quickly. I'm using my RRR with my megasquirt. Static fuel pressure for now. When I go back to boosted I will want to hook the vacuum line back up.

When you made that spectrogram were you using the stock knock sensor in the diamante block or some other kind of knock mic? If you already stated that somewhere I'm sorry.

Great to see some updates on your car!:thumb:

I finally settled on trying diaphragm material for a fuel pump on ebay. Thats the only comparable search query I could find in all these years. Really really old cars had diaphragm based fuel pumps. Never found a good thread infused Viton material to use. No idea what this stuff from ebay is made out of. Its twice as thick as the gasket junk from BEGI that I removed. BEGI is so frustrating with now they avoid helping people who fix their own stuff.

Spectrogram stuff was using a low quality Radioshack mic. I didn't have much thought into what I was doing there, just winging it. Works better on wife's stock 3.0. When I get time.....except I purchased a "lil knock meter" from Insane Import Performance which is an absolutely confusing product and I should figure that out instead. It has audio out.

Updates...
After leak fix, the car is automatically running 15psi boost. The Snow Performance alcohol controller, meant for Towing (TOW MAX) has EGT turned off (giant probe) and on 100% gain with a fairly small nozzle which is illegible. All from a used kit from a sled pulling truck. Bought a new tank from Devil's own cause I knew it fit in my P body. 4 qt tank barely fit in my Spirit since I forgot the fender has an outer shell behind the E.S. bumper (base bumper does not wrap around to the wheelwell).

I only tuned out a little fuel so it wouldn't shut down at 15psi. There is enough fuel right now to blow out spark a little. Small nozzles spray a lot more than they are supposed to because available pressure is way higher than their rating. When you have lots of nozzle, you get less than rated flow.

Still on stock cams and heads and rev limiter :( Would like to make a pass if I get time to tune it out. I have to start organizing my shop and garage space as we finally moved into my main living space and need to sort through and make space for everything. The 2017 PNW FWD Mopar meet was my excuse to work on the car and get zero sleep for a few weeks.

[Vigo]

Big spurt of progress seems worth it! 15psi and not blowing up. Seems like it wasn't that long ago you were establishing 8psi as a safe threshold for stock timing + 93oct. With almost double the boost it seems like another trip to the dragstrip is in order. Especially considering how few AA bodies have gone 11s and how close you potentially are to having the needed power on stock motor.

[Ondonti]

The diaphragm material failed quickly. Has probably failed again now too. Need a other plan. Would love someone to source fabric impregnated viton

[lightbulb010]

Damn. What happened to it exactly? Did it tear? I was going to buy some but after reading that I bought this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261556610601

It's not fiber reinforced but neither is the original diaphragm in mine(which is still working but I'm leery of it failing soon).

There are a few places that sell fiber reinforced rubber sheet of different varieties but they want huge orders. I know there has to be a more accessible source for something like this. Nitrile rubber should work too if that helps you any.

[Ondonti]

Damn. What happened to it exactly? Did it tear? I was going to buy some but after reading that I bought this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261556610601

It's not fiber reinforced but neither is the original diaphragm in mine(which is still working but I'm leery of it failing soon).

There are a few places that sell fiber reinforced rubber sheet of different varieties but they want huge orders. I know there has to be a more accessible source for something like this. Nitrile rubber should work too if that helps you any.

Same complaint about the giant order requirements. The rubber degrades in a few days now. I put a temporary layer of chemical resistant glove material on top of most recent falling apart diaphragm. Inuad out a new sheet in two Fridays ago when I went racing.

I bought a sheet of 1/32nd viton to test with another 1/32nd old diaphragm as structural.backup. I am not ready to chance a huge non woven blowout.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Hopefully it won't be necessary soon. EMR routine disable seems to be working fine now, so wowzer is working on ID'ing other tables now for scaling.

[Ondonti]

After receiving the wrong product, return shipping, reordering, i was able to cut out, hole punch the 1/32nd viton sheet.
Something is wrong with the regulator or return line as pressure won't go below 36. I used to run 28-32 psi base on 30# injectors. With AEM FIC i had baae of 20-22.

---------------------
New idea is that return line is clogged with diaphragm leftovers

[lightbulb010]

You could disconnect the reg from the return line and run the hose into a gas can. Then try the same at the tank. That should tell you where the problem is. If you have a clog in the line you can probably blow it out with compressed air unless it's in the pump module/sender.

Does the spring in the regulator have preload with the adjuster all the way out? In other words did you have to compress it when you put the regulator housing back together? I don't think you're actually overrunning the regulator based on what I saw in the pictures of the return passage in there.

Hope you get it figured out without too much hassle.

BTW, if you haven't noticed already, alot of your picture links are broken thanks to photobuckets new extortion policy.

[Ondonti]

You could disconnect the reg from the return line and run the hose into a gas can. Then try the same at the tank. That should tell you where the problem is. If you have a clog in the line you can probably blow it out with compressed air unless it's in the pump module/sender.

Does the spring in the regulator have preload with the adjuster all the way out? In other words did you have to compress it when you put the regulator housing back together? I don't think you're actually overrunning the regulator based on what I saw in the pictures of the return passage in there.

Hope you get it figured out without too much hassle.

BTW, if you haven't noticed already, alot of your picture links are broken thanks to photobuckets new extortion policy.

Yes, I saw that less than 24hrs after the extortion policy started. I figure they are insolvent. I don't have a replacement host for now. 500 pics in this project!!

I have a 5/16" return line except the 1/4" at the tank. The regulator has all passages jogged out and bends radiused from when I had it on my Duster for a month with twin external pumps. Had to drop pump voltage.
Spring in the regulator seems excessively long, it provides a little preload without the preload screw installed. I think the 1/4" sending unit return is the bottleneck if I want sub 20psi base pressure. Idle AFR was too rich for emissions but ran well prior to this fuel pressure issue.

[WarlockSyno]

Use Imgur.com - Really easy to upload and they're not fascists like Photobucket.

[Ondonti]

Still not set on picture uploading, so taking a break from that. Really good pics of the clogged fuel return drainback valve. Some huge pieces somehow made it past with 150psi air pressure but others could not.

Finally got my real Viton material. I destroyed 1 piece not having the spring installed testing out the return line issue I had. Ripped off from the center when the piston actuated too far. Second piece is working great but I have thread impregnated failed rubber gasket behind to prevent catastrophic failure (won't split in half suddenly).
Has been working well a few weeks. The rubber stuff would fail in days on E10 fuel!!!!

I had to rewire my Innovate MTX-L to battery. Too much noise to interpret datalogs. Full AFR point up and down makes tuning impossible. Car has no boost controller on it as I was waiting for accurate AFR readings. I have another knock sensing toy purchased long ago but not sure if I will tackle that or start tuning her back towards 15psi. Boring to drive as the wastegate opens at 3psi then creeps up to 5-6 at redline in higher gears.

[Vigo]

The rubber stuff would fail in days on E10 fuel!!!

Damn! Glad the return issue and signal noise are figured out. Also you are spoiled as quite a few turbo 3.0s have trapped ~100mph on 5-6 psi.

[Ondonti]

Damn! Glad the return issue and signal noise are figured out. Also you are spoiled as quite a few turbo 3.0s have trapped ~100mph on 5-6 psi.

I got an old HKS from Rob Mercer and no fun sounds at 3-6psi. I can feel the turbo come online very early then no party. Feels the same as ever the first few psi which is probably why it feels so slow once the gate opens. Car is significantly noisier in mild driving because the wastegate is always opening. 3psi is very easy to hit when I am used to driving in a "lug" (wrong) gear. Screamer pipe at 3psi low RPM sounds like blending ice to a rhythm. You can hear individual exhaust valves opening.

[Ondonti]

Differential bearings are smoked in both our daily drivers. Will possibly put my spare OBX LSD (never used) in. Car seemed to work pretty good with the shimmed OEM spider gears.

[Ondonti]

https://youtube.com/iwbnFH2JQwo

[Ondonti]

Lost a piston that was potentially already mechanically damaged. Was doing rolling burnouts on freeway. Block was wrecked by connecting rod and pin because piston shattered. I had just finished a knock sensor upgrade and replaced garbage Innovate wideband with another Zeitronix setup.....and had not tuned it yet :(

No more factory pistons. I don't have time to tinker like I want to on 100 projects.

[Aries_Turbo]

oops.. bummer.

[Ondonti]

Hey, looks like Photobucket changed so I can see my old pictures??????? I have been getting down to wanting to host my own stuff and a little website of info. Can't build a knowledge center here still.


I pulled the oil pan because I was going to steal it, and after investigation I might keep it there.
While the starter was capable of forcing rotation, weak attempts to turn the motor by hand locked it up near TDC both directions. Bottom of pistons were all intact, though at least 1 sounded very leaky all the time while moving.

Pulled plug and #6 plug electrode was smashed. Put Android phone Endoscope down the hole and found only intake valve ringland failure. Block saved! Debris must be stuck to the top of the piston farther back.
By reading the one most obvious plug, it had way too much timing or was at least burning hot. Needed retune at the time it blew after replacing the junk Innovate wideband, not more horseplay.

I have forged pistons on order and already have other upgrades on the shelf, but I might still slip in another piston from my old 11 second junk motor (I think it has a slug or 2 left) and build the 11 second block separately. I have a lot of stuff not coming together this year around the house, shop (200 amp panel + 180,000 Lumen of lights on separate meter installed when pool project started), pool (ongoing 125 amp sub-panel 2 year rewire), and 11 vehicles (only 1 safely drivable but needs A/C), plus a 3rd baby last Friday so any progress is good.

[GLHS60]

Congrats on 3rd baby!!!

Thanks
Randy

[Aries_Turbo]

Back into baby jail! Lol. Enjoy.

My 3rd kid is 19mo now. The cell door is starting to open :-)

Brian

[Ondonti]

Bonding leave for Baby #4,
Made 3 passes, first since 2017.
After our small FWD Mopar meet with 100+ temps, we went to Renegade Raceway DTP Racewars, which is basically a family party night for the whole area around the track. On Reservation. Was so hot I didn't want to fix all the stuff that was wrong, but I talked Kyle into racing his turbo 3.0 so I had to race mine. I was delirious, calorie starved, dehydrated. Had layed under the car for over an hour in the sun at a members house trying to repair methanol bottle that the level sensor fell out of.....

Tune was only mildly happy at 12psi (about 9 pounds of dome pressure). I didn't want to race with the car slower than it was in the past so I turned it up with no real testing.
Set it to 21.5 pounds (tapered up to a peak at high rpms) on the dome which makes about 20psi boost (backpressure changes). Did one test pull burnout at the meet. Changed fueling with some guesses in the low 20psi boost areas. My 2nd test "burnout" the methanol sensor had fallen out with all the fluid and the data was junk. After repair it was only off by 1-5% when I remembered to record my 2nd pass.

12.03@119 Bog from soft lauch. Limited boost in 1st and 2nd.
12.01@120 launch a bit harder, shifted a bit slower. Remembered to datalog. Bogged to 2500 rpms and wouldn't build boost.
11.57@120 Up Arrow 2 step and low gear boost. 1.694 60' and it could have left harder.

Could have up arrowed it much harder but the head gasket has been toast since last year BEFORE going on the dyno. It was spitting out water on the dyno. Compressed and leaked into the radiator. I loosened All the head bolts 100% and retorqued. Leak at 120psi of air stopped, somehow. Still wasn't good in boost but I didn't plan on fixing it because I didn't want to fix it until after the tune was semi figured out. Seemed like potential double/triple work.
I don't actually know how much a happy headgasket can handle, which is annoying. They definitely require retorque when using the FelPro headgaskets. Probably BEFORE 25psi boost spikes, which never happened on normal boost control, but this turbo is too high backpressure for my boost control on basic settings (advanced PID isn't recommended). Fueltech prefers seeing perfected drag car setups which have optimized parts for drag racing.