The Holset he341 3.0L [Archive] - Page 4

Ondonti

04-08-2012, 05:51 PM

So the coolant leak that stuck me in the middle of a mountain pass while towing a car in fall 2010 resprung. Radiator is good but what happened in 2010 was the coolant bypass metal section rusted through. Anyways, last week after the radiator was solved, another leak became more obvious. Took it apart Saturday morning. I thought it was the water pump (still might need looking at, I pulled the timing belt already) and then I was getting annoyed by the intake manifold preventing me from seeing into the block valley so i removed it. When I removed the coolant bypass clamp from the intake manifold, I tugged on the hose and instead of the hose coming off, the pipe came out of the intake manifold.

I engineered a not so awesome fix but I will see how it goes. Trimmed down and then hammered in a brass barb fitting that I had sitting around (no pipe taps in my collection).

A little frustrating.

On the good side, I readjusted my bobble strut. I had it preloaded the opposite direction that I like. It was pulling down very hard instead of slightly pushing up on the trans.
Vigo drove my car last week and probably felt the awesomeness of how I have had the bobble strut maladjusted for....about 4 years. Once I got the bobble strut happy, the side trans mount bolt is now easy to remove/install. It was almost impossible before. I don't know why I didn't fix this years ago (especially since I have done a clutch swap in the mean time and multiple teardowns of the timing belt and even the complete shortblock rebuild).

Ondonti

04-09-2012, 04:24 PM

Put intake manifold on, still small leak. Dried everything off. Water pump weep hole. So the seal must have failed on the water pump. I guess its actually a good thing they failed at the same time!
Problem? The machine screw on the water pump housing had to be drilled out. I have a spare pump (questionable so I won't use it) and the same thing happened on that.

Not sure where to get a replacement. Can't use a bolt because it needs to be flush for clearance to the block. Grrr. Why they designed it like that I do not know.

paduster

04-09-2012, 07:22 PM

Do u have a fastenal near you they should have it I know they do near me I was looking at them saying I knew what they would be used for but didn't put it together till u just said that about yours. Is if mine had them in stock if you have one near you they should be able to at least order it for you

Ondonti

04-09-2012, 07:41 PM

I decided to just go for a complete new waterpump with housing. The housing on mine looks like it has been "repaired" before on the O ring surface. Not sure if that is something I did years ago or not. I might have smoothed JB weld around the surface even as recently as last summer. Rather spend the extra money to take away the chance that it leaks there.
I have a spare waterpump that shouldn't have too many miles but the bearings sound fishy.

paduster

04-09-2012, 07:43 PM

Don't blame you there

Vigo

04-09-2012, 08:03 PM

Reason prevails! Also the reason i didnt take the spirit up to high rpm was because it spun 2nd easily and 3rd goes to 90 mph. You had me scared about cops!

Ondonti

04-09-2012, 09:52 PM

Well then you made the right decision. Cops are cracking down on my route to work and the operation is in the newspapers etc. Not sure why. Usually the traffic prevents anyone from speeding. They are trying to be seen while radaring you to scare you slow.

Ondonti

04-30-2012, 03:12 AM

DRB II let me know that the a/c circuit was always on. Pulled plugs until the radiator fan turned off and the scanner still said a/c switch off. Tore apart the dash but ended up pulling the ecu a/c switch wire 1" back from the ecu pin (so I can push it back in when I fix the a/c switch circuit). This keeps the faulted circuit from telling the ecu that the a/c is "on."

So I have been running high idle (demanded 880 vs 840) and constant fan in all driving conditions. Not sure if timing changes at all with that.

Happy that I know my problem and the fan is off. Found that my radiator relay connections are getting bad (or more likely the relay) because it doesn't want to kick on the fan doing relay tests until I mess with it or wack it against something (after unplugging and replugging). It didn't do this until I unplugged it during diagnosis yesterday.
No a/c for now but I had the belt off for the whole last year anyways. Not sure if it will get warm enough to need a/c but my little boy might want it if things get nice outside.

Took off my snow chain compatible tires and have 15" rims on again. Motor mounts are adjusted with the opposite preload that I had before on the bobble (now the same as my Duster).

Sundance 6g72

04-30-2012, 12:16 PM

does your cranner tell you ignition advance?

Ondonti

04-30-2012, 02:08 PM

does your cranner tell you ignition advance? Yup, I can see everything. 12-20 degrees of advance at idle during a cold start (plus base timing of 12). Never taken it out but I plan to someday since I can see everything about timing. I figure i can video record the scanner.

Vigo

04-30-2012, 02:28 PM

You can probably set it up to record a few parameters and display them as a graph for replay. Very short-term logging, basically. Lose it when you turn the scanner off or overwrite it. I know how to do this with Snap-on solus, modus, verdict but ive never used a DRBII.

Opened up a 91 3.0 cal earlier and found a table for max allowable advance from rpm. i think it was 52 until higher rpm. So plus base sounds like the ecu COULD advance all the way to 60 btdc. This is useless info, just blabbing.

Force Fed Mopar

04-30-2012, 03:20 PM

When will you guys learn that on a stock computer, "base" timing is not added to the total? :)

Vigo

04-30-2012, 04:09 PM

That's why we're adding it ourselves... unless you mean the computer includes an assumed number in all its totals.

Ondonti

05-01-2012, 09:55 PM

That's why we're adding it ourselves... unless you mean the computer includes an assumed number in all its totals. Lost myself

Ondonti

05-07-2012, 04:30 PM

Just changed the narrowband output set points to 17.58 and 18.02 AFR and I will see how that goes. I know when it gets too high you get misfire even under VERY light load so I hope its okay to work. 17.8 was what I remember being okay with on Zeitronix but that did not let me change the range, just the midpoint.

Ondonti

05-08-2012, 05:21 AM

Super lean running after warmup drives well. Tiny amount of surging sometimes. Cold start driving home from work and it wants to misfire under medium load so I have to be more aggressive or careful on the throttle (no middle ground). Gets into closed loop and its fine.

Drifter in a RWD Celica ruined my MPG chase. Swerving speeding car flybyes me. I go 4th and catch him then sit behind him on the freeway exit as he is swerving side to side Drift style yo! He comes out of the exit corner on the gas and I do the same but with tires spinning. Did that again around another secondary corner. He decides to drive really slow and let me pass him. I obliged him with the rev limiter in 2nd and he left.

RoadWarrior222

05-08-2012, 08:16 AM

Nice, keep us updated on the lean burn experiments...

The machine screw on the water pump housing had to be drilled out. I have a spare pump (questionable so I won't use it) and the same thing happened on that.

Not sure where to get a replacement. Can't use a bolt because it needs to be flush for clearance to the block. Grrr. Why they designed it like that I do not know.

Hmmm it's sounding like I might have decapitated a bolt and sawed a slot in it had I come across that. New pump is good though... though these days I'd say, "If it's an OEM part that looks like it's got more than 10,000 miles left in it, use it, coz it's something like 3:1 that you'll get a craptastic replacement that only lasts 5-8,000." :(

Ondonti

05-14-2012, 02:38 AM

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1523.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1526.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1527.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1548.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1549.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1556.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1558.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1559.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY1560.jpg

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

3 Speed needed new rear center lights so I installed the cool ones that I have been saving.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/1994%20Dodge%20Spirit%20Chassis/SANY1468.jpg

Sundance 6g72

05-14-2012, 08:56 AM

^ you a drift racer with that exhaust? :P

Reaper1

05-14-2012, 10:23 AM

Acclaim taillights look sweet!!

Ondonti

05-14-2012, 02:19 PM

^ you a drift racer with that exhaust? :P
Trailer hitch required rerouting exhaust and that extension does not belong there so its temp clamped...for years :P
It helps keep sound down which was the point of the extension. Vigo said the back seat was pretty normal sounding even with a 3" exhaust and no cat. I can't rout the exhaust backwards without another 30 degree bend.

Irocelectric93

05-14-2012, 09:59 PM

i think it looks awesome :p

Ondonti

05-14-2012, 10:56 PM

The actual car looks terrible though. Rocky Mountain Sun and Salt killed the top of the roof and I really will never get around to body work :P

Sundance 6g72

05-15-2012, 01:11 AM

i need to add a little pipe to the end of my exhaust. it dosnt stick out enough :_

that said, i have like 8 feet of 3inch that i tell my self will become a downpipe some day

Vigo

05-15-2012, 01:04 PM

I was amazed how quiet the back seat was for that kind of exhaust. I have a 3" system with high flow cat and a manaflow (iirc) on my dynasty and it's fairly quiet too but still has a drone at 75-85 iirc. I didnt experience any drone in Brent's car.

RoadWarrior222

05-15-2012, 01:16 PM

What if you made it even longer??? ...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/bQptfdSCdhs?feature=player_embedded

Force Fed Mopar

05-15-2012, 02:37 PM

Going all bosozoku on it :D

Ondonti

05-15-2012, 03:52 PM

I had a cop ask me what the "homemade exhaust thing is" and I said "see the trailer hitch."

Spiritman

05-16-2012, 12:15 AM

lol. what are thoose new taillights out of newer acclaim or newer spirit ? btw. does your trailer hitch scrape any time u back up carelessly out of a driveway or such? mine does

Ondonti

05-16-2012, 04:59 AM

lol. what are thoose new taillights out of newer acclaim or newer spirit ? btw. does your trailer hitch scrape any time u back up carelessly out of a driveway or such? mine does I hit the hitch once in a flood drainage dip in Utah, thats about it. Seen other hitches that are terrible like the one on my Mom's old Camry. Hits even the slightest incline. Right now I have to drive super careful because of the air dam I installed. Still hangs down a bit too far for my driving route.

Ondonti

06-08-2012, 05:39 AM

Been running high 10's AFR at mid rpms and about 10.5 at the top end. Turned the Rising Rate Regulator back a little over a few attempts and got it to run low 11's and then 10.8-10.9@ high rpms. Picked up some power. Turned it back about 1.25 or 1.5 turns total. Gave up as I was on my way home from work. Wishing it was not leaner a little above peak torque because that means I can't lean out the top end as much as I would like. That or a small cam change might even out the AFR's.

Ondonti

06-09-2012, 03:57 AM

Turned the RRR back another 1/3 or 1/2 turn and it maxed out. Still high 10's until near redline when it goes mid/high 11's. To get it any leaner I would have to back off point of onset (top adjustment). Meaning fuel pressure is a bit too high @ 0psi boost

Possibility I will make a 1/4 pass tomorrow. Weather is supposed to be bad and I am going to the Northwest Honda-Tech meet which is at Pacific Raceways. Wife doesn't want me to break because she has a birthday party to go to after.

Ondonti

06-09-2012, 01:28 PM

:(

Changed to some colder plugs from the racing days and 20 minutes towards the track found out one of them is bad. Now I am 2 hours later then I planned so no racing thanks to the birthday party I have to take my wife to later :(

Hope to get to show up and at least watch.

Sundance 6g72

06-09-2012, 03:55 PM

dang i was hoping for some times..

RoadWarrior222

06-09-2012, 04:17 PM

Times right, yah, that's what we check back for, not the carnage pix, have to remember, times :D

Ondonti

06-10-2012, 02:28 AM

So at the time I left, the fastest car that had run all day was an 11.61 second Mustang on huge slicks. Funny to me!
They did have some single digit cars there but they were running later in the evening as part of a special race series. Wife seems to think building one of those would be cooler then the Hondas. I told her my Toyota would work well enough :P

I have never seen this many cars at a meet before. Didn't even take pictures of the pits as I never walked over there. Thanks to being late I didn't get to race and I had to leave early for a Birthday Party. My son would actually sit in his stroller at the races because he LOVES cars. He would not sit at the park so I had to chase him for hours while the women played.

Would have been so great to run since there was a huge lack of performance out there. Got a snobby remark from one person who seemed to think my protruding exhaust pipe was a style thing (as if my rust top AA body is for style). Oh man it would have been fun. That is what I love about racing the Junkyard. People hate then love you more after a pass. The thing that sucks here is that they don't have regular fun type events, just bracket races etc. I like the meets where non racer car people come just to watch their friends.

This is the track where I ran all my good n/a times and ran my turbo time with the Spirit. Brand new launch pad as of last week in order to prevent the loss of the NHRA west coast swing. The goofy green turbo auto Hyundai that thought he was hot ran 15's and was beside me when waiting in line. I guess I could have raced once and left but that would have been a big risk vs the fact that I knew i had to leave for the party at a certain time. Really wished I could stay but I came in 2nd place for planning.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1936.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1937.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1938.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1939.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1940.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1941.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1942.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1945.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1946.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1947.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1949.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1950.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1951.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1952.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1953.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1954.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1955.jpg
Turbo Dodge in the middle.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1956.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1959.jpg
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Meets/Honda-Tech%20at%20Pacific%20Raceways%20June%208th%202012/IMG_1962.jpg

Vigo

06-10-2012, 09:12 AM

Looks like fun. Cant argue with playing it safe either. Wife and kid come first. :)

Irocelectric93

06-10-2012, 05:50 PM

Thats awesome that your son likes cars so much. Like father like son eh? Its also cool that your wife will go with you to such event. Sounds like a keeper to me.

Sundance 6g72

06-11-2012, 01:28 AM

lol 15 second turbo car

RoadWarrior222

06-11-2012, 07:03 AM

Shhh, you'll stir up the stock T1 owners...

Sundance 6g72

06-11-2012, 08:57 AM

hahahahahahahhaa

Vigo

06-11-2012, 01:24 PM

Lots of stock t1s run 16s, some run 17s..

turbovanman²

06-11-2012, 02:30 PM

When i get the van running again, LMK when your going to go to PR again, I'll bring my son out, :nod:

Ondonti

06-11-2012, 04:18 PM

Lots of stock t1s run 16s, some run 17s..

Shhh, you'll stir up the stock T1 owners...

When i get the van running again, LMK when your going to go to PR again, I'll bring my son out, :nod:

Long drive! Longest drive my wife has been on and its only 50 miles for us! Work makes it hard to plan this stuff and then also find time to have a car that can make a pass. I want my Duster racing because racing the baby seat = problems getting home if I break! Tow trucks seat 3 adults. Wife needs a lot of learning before she can follow me down there.

So many slow cars that the stock t1 boys would enjoy themselves to get a win every couple tries! I love knowing I can beat the car next to me when they think I can't.

Sundance 6g72

06-11-2012, 04:28 PM

I love knowing I can beat the car next to me when they think I can't.

greatest feeling ever! im thinking of just hitting the track even though ill spin to hard.

turbovanman²

06-11-2012, 06:02 PM

Long drive! Longest drive my wife has been on and its only 50 miles for us! Work makes it hard to plan this stuff and then also find time to have a car that can make a pass. I want my Duster racing because racing the baby seat = problems getting home if I break! Tow trucks seat 3 adults. Wife needs a lot of learning before she can follow me down there.

So many slow cars that the stock t1 boys would enjoy themselves to get a win every couple tries! I love knowing I can beat the car next to me when they think I can't.

True but my son loves it and I can stay with friends overnight.

I probably wouldn't go balls out, just go have some fun, :thumb:

Ondonti

06-19-2012, 06:13 AM

RR backed off all the way and still being rich made me grumpy so yesterday I backed off the point of onset and turned the rising rate in 1 turn. Now I am mid 11's until near redline when it hit 11.0. Much better. Before it was pig rich then leaning out at redline. That was because fuel pressure was excessively high to start out (before boost even comes up) and then when boost increases (like if I see a little boost creep at redline) the RRR backed off all the way didn't bother adding much fuel.
Finally got some traction in 3rd in a tunnel (stupid rain) on the way home from work. It was dry on the way to work but I had no open stretches. There is another huge event this weekend and I am hoping to avoid working O.T. so I can try to make a pass. No birthday this time but it is my 10 year H.S. reunion that only my wife really wants me to go to but not that much since my friends are not going.

Would like a set of Champion copper 9? heat range (1 range colder then OEM 3.0) spark plugs but I am not sure on a part number. I ran some in the duster that were 2 ranges colder then stock but I can't remember those either.

I guess I will get a set of BPR7ES or 6ES tomorrow if I have time.
-------------
BPR7ES purchased. No time to gap and install before work :(

Ondonti

06-20-2012, 05:12 AM

http://www.forum-fest.com/

This is what I hope to be going to on Saturday with a properly running car. With the colder plugs I would like to get a few more pounds of boost in. Would love to run slicks but its a bad idea when I will drive down there with a baby seat and potentially break.
I want to hope to maybe run something over 105mph. Currently about 6-7 psi boost, not sure where I will take it. I don't feel super comfortable with OEM timing and 92 octane even though I have big ring gaps. Motor could probably take 12psi+ on stock 12 degrees stock timing and cold plugs but I never got much data on stock shortblocks with 91 octane when I was at high altitude. Only ran pump on built motor with alky spray.

http://www.nwmotiv.com/forum-fest/ForumFest-Flyer-Front.png

Ondonti

06-21-2012, 07:22 AM

Installed the NGK BPR7ES plugs and then wanted to up the boost a bit and I found that the grainger valve was backed all the way off and on the verge of falling apart. Glad I changed the plugs! If that fell apart I would have had no boost control.

Up to about 8psi right now and I chickened out after that.

The bad news, my last day off was the 10th and I might not get another day off until July. No racing :(

Vigo

06-21-2012, 07:21 PM

I remember that guy Joe who had a turbo 3.0 acclaim back in the day said he was beating cars that trapped 108 on the street at 8 psi. I think your eventual track trip will be exciting.

Ondonti

06-22-2012, 06:10 AM

Up to a solid 10psi boost. Low 11's AFR. Not sure if I want to lean it out. Maybe I will get the time to look at the plugs when I wake up. Hard for me to say how the car is performing because all it feels to me is "not as fast" as I am used to. I had mixed results with trap speeds on the Duster on this kind of boost pressure because of a super low compression oil burner motor along with spark blowout as 3 nozzles of alky turned on with stock plug gaps.

My thoughts are 101mph with ebay turbo on a 5.8psi wastegate spring with AFR pegged below 10 and ignition advanced way too far could provide groundwork. Same car ran 92mph 2 weeks before going turbo.

Using a trap speed HP calculator (not great for trying to get real results but great for comparing the same car at various levels).

2920 pounds n/a 92mph = 154whp

Probably 2960 pounds turbo setup (very conservative) 101.89mph = 212whp (About 10hp/psi)

Car current has a class 2 hitch and I won't be removing seats or the baby seat so I am probably more like 3060 pounds (not sure how much my uhaul hitch weighs). I will also have a tool box in the trunk and other items.

If I can make 10hp/psi boost then 4.2 extra pounds would bring 42whp.

254whp @3060# is 107mph.

This setup probably makes more hp/psi then that ebay turbo so maybe things could look near 110mph! Or be disappointed :P
12whp/psi would bring me up to 274whp and I would need 276whp to get 110mph.
Those are not real dyno numbers but useful for comparison.
Now the reason I think these things can't be used for estimating HP is that take 600 pounds away and get to the Duster's weight and you find meaningless results. Duster did 117mph on 16 pounds of boost and was devastatingly faster then this car but the calculator would tell you it was only making 261 hp while it would say my 3000# car makes all sorts of power when I know the output should be less. Bigger turbo, 6 more pounds of boost, E70. That calculator would say that motor was only gaining 9.5whp per psi from 16 to 22 but even less overall.
Thinking about this is making me question using a calculator to even compare the same car to itself :yuck:

Sundance 6g72

06-23-2012, 03:20 PM

154hp sounds right considering i made 147 with a smaller throttle pody and shorter spacers.

Ondonti

06-23-2012, 10:50 PM

I don't see any time in the schedule that is going to line up with me racing this year :( Sorta happy the big event got rained out today as my work package was completed before I showed up to work but I still have to be here the entire weekend. If I had time to spend the O.T. money on cars I would have some real fun :P

Ondonti

08-07-2012, 07:03 AM

Can't spend time here right now but thought I should post that I was in an organized race with an upgraded turbos RS4. Started half a car behind each time cause I didn't really care. Let him have the hit. ~ 55mph roll. Put half a car on him in 3rd, power shifted and gained a full car, then continued to pull through 4th. Was supposed to race some cobra on the way back but Audi (the faster opponent) wouldn't have any of that. Run again and we are both brake boosting so both of us have zero lag. Couldn't hear anything (I was getting a lot of nasty sounds brake boosting) and somehow we left at the same time. Pull back the half car I gave him, power shifted and didn't gain much. Lost half a car in the middle of 4th and then put a half car on him at the top of 4th.

I was done at that point and went back to the meet spot (lots of people/cars there). RS4 wanted to run again but it was obvious to me that he had in cab boost control and wasn't just "rerunning." I said, "I have a fast car and this is kinda boring," and left it at that. The RS4 had $20,000 in mods (not all of them performance I hope) but the guy probably needs to hit the dyno and get someone with a brain to tune it. I could play the up the boost game but the moment I make too much power for 3rd there would be no way I could race an AWD audi. That would make things even more lame. I know the rich kid owner was really heartbroken because he has been beating everyone up and it was the first night out with the new build. He didn't see under my hood but heard people saying they thought I could beat him so he couldn't help his pride from acting out. Sorta nervous about the whole thing since I only knew one person (who invited me and made the challenge). Bought some soda and went home after that as I really didn't enjoy racing without having a real friend around. Something fun about having a buddy around for that stuff. My stomach hurt driving home. I needed to eat but the whole thing made me nervous. Police are all around that area but the spot they race is basically impossible to control so they seem to hang around looking for car thieves or trouble makers. Weird. I didn't like seeing the police but apparently it was normal.

Baby seat + trailer hitch + holset 1
RS4 0

Hoping to somehow avoid working on the 18th because there is a test and tune in Bremerton. Supposed to be doing my book learning when not at work so forums are out :P

Sundance 6g72

08-07-2012, 10:30 AM

hahaha. Just imagine their faces if this was a few years back and you brought out the duster. LOOL

Sundance 6g72

08-07-2012, 11:27 AM

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/555474_10151149151023899_857966438_n.jpg

RoadWarrior222

08-07-2012, 12:28 PM

Or.....

http://i.qkme.me/3qdxv2.jpg

Vigo

08-07-2012, 12:29 PM

LOL, hilarious pic, sundance.

Sundance 6g72

08-07-2012, 12:31 PM

im trying to figure out why the junkyard looks right hand drive...

RoadWarrior222

08-07-2012, 12:32 PM

Because it's shot in a sideview mirror.

Ondonti

08-19-2012, 04:01 AM

Caused someone to break their SRT10 Pickup yesterday trying to pass me on the freewayand failing twice (wrong gear choice twice since he had no idea what he was trying to pass). Tried to cut me off the second time (already ahead and trying to look tough) but I put my bumper right up to his door and he swerved back while apparently misshifting (I heard bad sounds over the sound of my open wastegate...) and possibly overreving the crap out of his motor. He had to pull to the side of the freeway.

So then I decide to drive farther away so I could race on a Saturday and make some trial runs. My second pass is not in the video but it was a terrible 2.7 60' where I bogged since my first pass I had wheel hop.

1st pass

60-----2.410
330---6.334
1/8---9.287 @ 85.88
1/4---13.858@108.84

I was chopping the throttle over and over. With a better tire this would have been a decent run. Lost some MPH in the 1/8th and 1/4. I don't see myself making any good tire passes until my wife is able to drive my son back home (be able to take an extra car in case I need to get towed home). That might take long enough that I am racing the Duster again.... :P

I really drove like a sissy here because the lack of traction made me not care about good shifts or getting in the throttle quickly. I was afraid of breaking traction so even my 3/4 shift was terribly cautious. Probably not gonna spin there but I know I can chirp that shift n/a. Felt silly having no traction. Not super fun to race when you can't push anything. My little son was there and behaving the whole time so that made the trip worth it. He does not like loud noises but when he could see it was all due to cars, he liked it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc0VXk3pyVk&feature=youtu.be

MC#4

08-19-2012, 10:20 AM

Cool, I'm pretty sure you have the fastest 3.0 pass this year. Then again I don't recall anyone else running besides myself.

Bonus points for whoopin that mustang. :thumb:

Vigo

08-19-2012, 10:43 AM

Glad there was video of it. Definitely seems like 110+ if you WOT the whole track. Was that rev limiter in 3rd at the end of the video?

Sundance 6g72

08-19-2012, 11:08 AM

i dont like pushing my car to hard on street tires either. I remember a long time ago you mentioned that no power steering plus lots of horsepower feels crazy.... well i can attest to that. My car torque steers all over if im not ready for it.

Ondonti

08-19-2012, 09:24 PM

Glad there was video of it. Definitely seems like 110+ if you WOT the whole track. Was that rev limiter in 3rd at the end of the video?

3rd gear tops out around upper 80's but I short shifted everything since I only got 1 gear change that included traction and I had no feel for what the car was doing. Miserable pass from a driving point of view but I have not made it down the strip since 2009 and have not made a street tires pass since 2007? And that was with either zero HP or ebay lag that gave traction.

Vigo

08-20-2012, 08:27 AM

I was talking about the street pull. You have a 6200 limiter in that car, right? My 5800 in the dynasty topped out 3rd around ~84mph on a 3.77

Sundance 6g72

08-20-2012, 05:44 PM

my 5spd 3.77 topped out at 85 @ 6200rpm

nmw2006

08-20-2012, 08:55 PM

On the track my car went 15.4@88.46 in 3rd gear on stock limiter + 205/65R15s.

Sundance 6g72

08-20-2012, 10:45 PM

my tires were 195 60 r15

Vigo

08-20-2012, 11:46 PM

Yeah those tires are pretty darn tall, thats what was letting you do 88 in 3rd gear. My car had similar height tires (a little shorter iirc, 205/55/16) but the 5800 limiter so it would not do 88.

Ondonti

08-21-2012, 02:45 AM

225/60R15 on the car. Quite tall. I was on the limiter in the street pull in the mountains. At the track I don't really know what was going on. I felt like it didn't matter much after the most important gears, 1st and 2nd were worthless. "Should I wot shift?...why bother," etc.
Also, think my inbox is full because I forgot to pay my subscription. Paid and waiting.

turbovanman²

08-21-2012, 06:28 PM

Nice kill, :partywoot:

Do you have the exhaust undone?

Why are you towing the blue car?

I watched this with my son, at the 18 sec mark he goes, look, its got a turbo, :nod:

Ondonti

09-11-2012, 02:34 PM

Nice kill, :partywoot:

Do you have the exhaust undone?

Why are you towing the blue car?

I watched this with my son, at the 18 sec mark he goes, look, its got a turbo, :nod:

Has an Ultraflow and a nasty little crimp bent section after the downpipe that someone put in when I was mad at an exhaust leak and didn't have time to fix it.
I like to tow the Junkyard to the track when I plan on breaking it (which I figure is every pass when it comes to axles). Those pictures are from when I towed it from Salt Lake to Seattle. Justification for turbo was towing :P

Vigo

09-11-2012, 08:25 PM

LOL, i never felt the need to add a turbo to my dynasty with all the towing i did, but nevertheless i have collected a big turbo, an engine controller, a different intake plenum, and a bov and some injectors for it anyway. Some assembly required.

Of course, i have never towed above 2000ft elevation with it.. hehe.

Spiritman

11-18-2012, 02:44 PM

hey any progress with this one? still driving it every day?

Ondonti

11-20-2012, 11:12 AM

Every day. I meant to post that I drove it to Utah and back recently. In Utah I:

-had a radiator fan fail. Was losing power in traffic and didn't see the temp gauge. Never found out until I was up a one lane canyon that started to be covered in ice. Overheated and thought I had lost a headgasket (paranoid). Towed to a friends house and pulled the plug. Jumped the fan and it didn't turn until I pushed it. Had to hit up a junkyard.

-Spirited driving on an onramp to well over 100mph to keep an aggressive driving cobalt from flying past me. Undercover. Lit up. Let go. :D

Got a milk spill in the rear carpet from a baby bottle so I have the rear seats out and did some work on cleaning the carpet. Grrr.

Getting frustrated with the exhaust leak at the Holset V band but I do not have a plan in place to fix it. Probably getting an OEM Holset clamp and modify the non OEM flange a bit. I don't have the hood seal near the windshield so when I start her up I get a nice big wif if the climate control fan is on. Probably getting some all the time. More interested in the hood seal then fixing any hard parts for now.

Reaper1

11-20-2012, 11:45 AM

Vigo

11-20-2012, 09:23 PM

It was poopy traction conditions when i got to drive it. Maybe have to use my airline vouchers for another try..

Reaper1

11-21-2012, 02:28 PM

I didn't drive it. Just rode in it, but that was good enough for me!

GLHNSLHT2

11-21-2012, 04:24 PM

Bremerton SUCKS for traction. Always like ice. Went there years ago with a 13.9x car here at Spokane. Couldn't get out of the mid 15's over there.

Reaper1

11-21-2012, 05:30 PM

All I know is that the roads around here have NO traction, regardless of temperature or moisture! All my car does is spin unless I get on it from 50 in 4th, but then the fun is over VERY quickly. :(

GLHNSLHT2

11-21-2012, 05:38 PM

welcome to Seattle. Nothing ever dries out over there.

Ondonti

11-22-2012, 08:59 AM

After riding in the car it is a TON of fun! (thanks Brent! ;) )At some point I WILL turbo a 3.0 like I've wanted to do for SO long! What an awesome driving experience! Nice low down torque and power that just keeps coming till the limiter. With AWD it should make for such a fun drive. I do get a bit annoyed by my progressive throttle cam because it masks the feeling of low down power by requiring a lot of pedal movement before things really open up. I am pretty sure car manufacturers enjoy having almost all the beans at 1/4 throttle so the cars feel more powerful then they are. Hard to go between cars. My wife's stock 3.0 a670 feels like it has a mountain of power in reserve but I know it really doesn't.

Chris didn't really have his car driving around until rainy season started. That and he probably has Florida summer tires in cold weather. Its a skating rink for him.

Reaper1

11-25-2012, 08:18 PM

You got that right, Brent! Kumho XS tires. Tread wear = 180! 1 level above a DOT approved race tire. GREAT in warm weather, even wet. Not so great in this cooler wet stuff...at all!!

Vigo

11-25-2012, 10:26 PM

Yeah in Texas i have noticed with super aggressive tires that i have more problems with surface temps being too low in winter than i do with moisture being on the ground.. but with some of these tires thats just as bad!! With both it's probably borderline unsafe. I know the times i autocrossed my Aries on cold pavement it felt like a complete waste of time.

RoadWarrior222

11-26-2012, 10:25 AM

I do get a bit annoyed by my progressive throttle cam because it masks the feeling of low down power by requiring a lot of pedal movement before things really open up. I am pretty sure car manufacturers enjoy having almost all the beans at 1/4 throttle so the cars feel more powerful then they are. Hard to go between cars. My wife's stock 3.0 a670 feels like it has a mountain of power in reserve but I know it really doesn't.

My SiL's Kia Spectra drives like that, all tweaky torque then nothing.

Sundance 6g72

11-28-2012, 12:40 AM

same with my x girl friends alero. i did a smokey with it but its pig slowww.

Tempted

12-12-2012, 01:33 AM

This might sound completely retarded, but I have a question on the intake. I've done about a million 3400 top swaps on 3100 GM 60* motors. I hate the motors but the 3400 top ends are close enough to 3.0s that someone with a hint of welding experience should be able to mate it up. The reason I say that is because there is a pretty big aftermarket selection for the anemic 3100 and 3400 motors and, when done correctly, they can be built to flow with the best of them.

Edit- For reference. These are the lowers.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ATnvP0VsLwE/TI1rIPCfKFI/AAAAAAAAADc/u--a7vyLPN8/s400/155.JPG

http://wot-tech.com/shop/images/uploads/3400 lower manifold/manip_dcp_0340.jpg

Vigo

12-12-2012, 10:08 PM

What are you suggesting? The BOTTOM of those intakes are WILDLY different. I mean, the gm motor's valve covers seal to the lower intake. It doesnt get much weirder/ more different than that.

Tempted

12-13-2012, 09:38 PM

I'm talking about the upper. I just pictured the lowers to show the similarity that the uppers have. I don't know how well the upper flows on a 3.0(never built one) but I do know the the 3.4 flows well and has aftermarket support.

Vigo

12-13-2012, 10:47 PM

My personal opinion is that if you have the metal fab skills to adapt a 3.4 upper intake to a 3.0 lower, you have the fab skills to be better off building from scratch. Just my .02.

Sundance 6g72

12-14-2012, 12:09 AM

im not a fan of the stock lower intake to begin with. The D shaped ports that the 4g63 has seem to work better

Ondonti

08-03-2013, 09:44 AM

Really missing this car. A week before my 2nd son was born (which is making the repair process very slow).........
The car has been down to take apart the transmission and look for bad things. Had some bad banging sounds in corners and sometimes straights that I thought was a diff pin exiting.

Shim'd her up. Had to add .010" shim to the input shaft. Put thicker side gear shims into the diff to add a little preload using the expensive dealer shim kit (grr). Diff pin savers and I am going with a floating diff pin (no roll pin) but I need to take the diff back apart and shim the pin because it has endplay against the savers (flops back and forth). Welded the transfer shaft bearing sleeve onto the shaft so it can't walk off at higher power levels.

Not super happy because I was hoping my problem would be the diff pin. Can't finish the transmission build because I want to replace the input shaft seal after looking at it and its possibly leaking condition and these seals are not available locally (at least on Saturday).

When I get it back together I won't be worried that the banging sound is my transmission about to frag. I will have to investigate more about what is broken (breaking) in the wheel bearings/axles but I am happy with the transmission and it should be better/safter then it was before. I can turn up the power without the transfer shaft sleeve pushing out the end of the case.

The axles look fine and the wheel bearings seem fine so I will have to be a bit more picky when I test them out again.

----
What needs to be done or has already been worked on the side:
I installed an OEM steel TIII flywheel and removed the Fidanza. Scuffed up my solid 4 puck and also the pressure plate. Not happy with the engagement I was having where my duster is easier to drive even with a dual diaphragm an 3 puck solid.

Then going to install a check valve for my exhaust Evac that Reaper1 helped me find at the junkyard. Ford full size truck part from late 80's. With that in place (the one they come with does not function as it should) I will tee in the OEM PCV valve because at idle and low rpms my crankcast just gets pressurized since the exhaust velocity in a 3" downpipe is not enough to draw any vacuum.

Going to grind down the 4" vband flange on my downpipe so it better fits the Holset (per Cindy at FWDP) so it might have a chance at actually sealing.

Install a solid Polybushings passenger mount and also his transmission mount (removing my solid ones as a test). Install shifter bushings (whoever makes the ones that polybushings sells).

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2679.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2679.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2697.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2697.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2698.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2698.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2704.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2704.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2765.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2765.jpg.html)

Ondonti

08-04-2013, 05:36 AM

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2766.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2766.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2767.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2767.jpg.html)

Have to wait now for an input shaft seal since nobody has them on hand. Also found that my throwout bearing had not been functioning properly and was unhooked, turned to the side, and getting smashed by the fork to actuate the clutch in places not meant for that.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2768.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2768.jpg.html)

Force Fed Mopar

08-06-2013, 09:29 AM

What are you gonna do if that transfer shaft bearing ever needs replacing?

Ondonti

08-06-2013, 11:59 AM

What are you gonna do if that transfer shaft bearing ever needs replacing?

Be sad? I have spare transmissions but at least one has a bad bearing (unknown which one). I heard that the unsealed replacements someone claimed for the driver side are not actually replacements (don't fit). I am sure money can solve all problems though :P That or just being willing to modify some things. I just don't buy giving up. Deciding when is the time to go crazy is another story. I don't believe we have to use things that fit perfectly how things sit. Sleeves can change, be added, etc.

but the sleeve, I would just grind off the welds.

Ondonti

08-14-2013, 12:47 AM

Went to buy a 3/8" plug for the transmission and also a 1/2" cap for one of the exhaust vent valves that I am not using on the downpipe.

In an attempt to improve the Vband, I looked at it after reading Cindy at FWDP say they machined down normal 4" vbands. I thought she was talking about the larger outer OD but when I put the non holset clamp onto both flanges separately, I realized that it closed much farther on the Holset flange than the 4" flange. I knew this but never realized how bad it was or why it happened. I had put some "shims" on the holset side of the flange but now I realize I had to do a bit more. I took my 4.5" angle grinder and went to work on the welding base OD of the 4" vband. Now the clamp closes just about as tight as it does on the Holset, and I didn't touch the larger mating surface O.D. I had to clearance the clamp a little to give a little more closing clearance and I might need a spacer for the nut as its pretty darn close to shanking when I test fit.

I also went to take apart my oil return flange on the turbo so I could copper spray the surfaces but I found that one of the fasteners was loose and if I tightened it, I could see the oil filled gap closing up. Grr. Its been leaking for a long time. The inlet used to leak before I added an O ring to one of the fittings. I could only copper spray one side because the gasket was really stuck to the turbo. I still expect more oil leaks from the drain but this should decrease that leak. It also might leak less since I redid my crankcase exhaust evac to use the pcv valve for out of boost operations and added a second check valve inline. Will work on pictures of that.

RoadWarrior222

08-14-2013, 07:08 AM

IDK if you might be better off trying an ultra high temp RTV on that.

Sundance 6g72

08-15-2013, 02:56 PM

I love copper spray haha

Aries_Turbo

08-15-2013, 03:23 PM

I love copper spray haha

me too. i use that stuff on everything lol.

Brian

Ondonti

08-17-2013, 04:49 AM

IDK if you might be better off trying an ultra high temp RTV on that.

I love copper spray haha

me too. i use that stuff on everything lol.

Brian
I have a near empty can of copper spray that I still have failed to completely empty. I have the ultra copper RTV but I have no experience using it on surfaces meant to hold liquids. I know copper spray has NEVER been a weakness or problem no matter the abuse I have put to it. Of course this is making me wonder why I don't use it on transmission cases etc etc etc.....I don't really think its meant for that but I still had a gasket and thats what I always use it for. I thought about using Loctite 518 (anaerobic sealer) and no gasket but I remembered the can of copper spray before I managed to read the temperature limits of Loctite 518.

Transmission SPLINED back on yesterday. Oh how I love that joyous moment. It was raining so I didn't get real far along.

But this event reminded me of a stupid 50 Cent song.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/o76rr.jpg

Sundance 6g72

08-17-2013, 03:12 PM

When I put my diff pin savers in, sealing the trans back up was a pain. Im curious if copper spray will work because it will be super easy to do rather than copper rtx or something.

RoadWarrior222

08-18-2013, 09:50 AM

I have the ultra copper RTV but I have no experience using it on surfaces meant to hold liquids.

Huh? What do you usually use RTV on then? Or do you mean the copper stuff in particular you've only used on intakes?

I regard the spray as something you use when the surfaces mate so perfectly that you almost don't need anything, where I'd regard anything that's significantly pitted and scratched or hasn't got huge clamping force at every point as something to use the RTV on... I'd kinda spitball that based on rigidity of parts to go together, for instance I wouldn't trust it on transmission covers. May seal at first but lack the bulk and elasticity for it to deal with it trying warp up a couple of tens of thousandths when hot.

GLHNSLHT2

08-18-2013, 11:03 AM

Use Anerobic sealer just like you use on the seal retainers on the block. Works like a charm.

Aries_Turbo

08-18-2013, 12:36 PM

yup. anaerobic for the aluminum diff cover and rtv for the bearing retainer cups.

i use the spray alot on something that has a gasket already. like the throttle body, or the intake/exhaust manifold or head gaskets.

i also use it on turbo stuff without a gasket

i dont use the copper spray on something that is sealing oil out/in like trans case halves that dont have a gasket already.

anaerobic is the factory choice for sealing the aluminum diff cover on 523/543/568.

Brian

Ondonti

08-19-2013, 10:04 PM

I put aerobic on all the diff stuff, bearing housings included.

I normally use copper RTV on the turbo inlet flange and on threaded fittings on my downpipe etc.

Copper Spray does seem great for anything that already has a gasket.

-----------

Right Rear Wheel bearing has.....no bearings. Zero bearing. Spindle damaged but in the middle between the bearings. I think I am just going to file then polish that up and put new bearings in. I don't see them for sale. That makes me worry a bit because the big brake set that I have in storage does not have the axle stubs/spindles.
There was about 1/2" play and the axle nut was safely kept in place by the cotter pin.

Ondonti

08-20-2013, 12:01 PM

Throwout bearing had fallen to the side. I bent the springs back into shape and...was too cheap to replace it.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2777.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2777.jpg.html)
Ford check valve. Supposedly good stuff. The ones that come with exhaust evac kits kinda suck and one of mine failed. Downpipe has 2 vents but I only use one and tee both cylinder heads. This check valve is in series with the one that comes with evac kits.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2779.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2779.jpg.html)
Ground down the base of the vband flange so the clamp will close tighter on the Holset side.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2784.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2784.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2788.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2788.jpg.html)
Tee'd in the original PCV valve because the exhaust evac does not function at low exhaust flows (idle etc). That pushes oil out of the motor. The wormgear clamp to the left is actually helping prevent the house from kinking. I had put a curved pipe inside and torched the hose to help create a bend in it.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2794.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2794.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2795.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2795.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2796.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2796.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2798.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2798.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2803.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2803.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2804.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2804.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2805.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2805.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2806.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2806.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

Then the bad stuff. First, after sitting 2 months the car is back to not always sparking when the ignition switch is used. Over a year ago I had this issue and I can't remember what I did except wast money on a switch that was not the problem. I could always hotwire the starter but using the ignition switch caused something to be unhappy. I guess I should try the scanner when doing that. Didn't own one last time.

Then, driving around the block to hear the banging sounds I decided to turn the car off and all of a sudden I could actually hear that.... my right rear wheel was about to fall off.....

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2807.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2807.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2808.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2808.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2812.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2812.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2813.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2813.jpg.html)
Pictures above and below show the in and out play in the wheel bearings.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2814.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2814.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2816.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2816.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2818.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2818.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2819.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2819.jpg.html)

Vigo

08-20-2013, 12:16 PM

Ok, seeing the pics this morning i think that spindle is actually usable after you knock down the high point created by that gouge. When the inner race is stuck to the spindle the way to get it off (that i use, anyway) is to take a cutting disc and cut through it in a steep spiral cut, so not perpendicular to it, which would be nice if you had the room (which you dont), but sort of spiraling around so the cut might go 1/3rd of the way around the race. Try not to cut into the spindle too much but honestly a small cut into it is superficial and ok. Once you've made the cut, use a punch or a big flathead screwdriver (something with a wedge on the end) and hammer it into the cut to spread the race out. Usually when you do that you can take the race off and just clean up the surface underneath it with sandpaper or emery cloth.

That's a labor intensive way to save a spindle. If you have easier access to a replacement i would just replace it.

RoadWarrior222

08-20-2013, 01:22 PM

Coulda sworn Rock Auto had rear bearings for our stuff, might have just been vans though.

Yah, generally, you wanna keep nice shiny, roundy little balls in there, not the scrapings out of your bent and stripped nail and screw bucket... :thumb:

Just kidding, but wow, haven't seen any that bad, only thing I can think of near it was a bike lying on it's side in the yard all winter, bearing in the mud.

Sundance 6g72

08-20-2013, 01:54 PM

Ondonti

08-21-2013, 06:13 AM

The DSM guys run a little $1 check valve in-line with their pcv valve because stock pcv suck at anything over stock boost (sometimes they just dont work)

Thats what I always tell my self I am going to do but I think i will ditch pcv all together and run both valve covers to my catch can and have the can ran before the turbo to get some suction. That has been my most effective way to not blast oil out my rear valve cover.

Not sure what check valve they use :P
I might have to graduate since I puke oil out for various reasons. Exhaust evac works great at WOT but most of my driving is very low load. Hoping to see some improvements.

Irocelectric93

08-21-2013, 04:23 PM

SRT4 guys also run check valves in addition to stock PCV. I currently have one on mine and it def helped my car from pushing oil.

RoadWarrior222

08-21-2013, 04:49 PM

There's actually no valve in the 3.0 PCV valves it's just an orifice to meter amount of PCV inhaled.

Reaper1

08-21-2013, 08:38 PM

There's actually no valve in the 3.0 PCV valves it's just an orifice to meter amount of PCV inhaled.

That doesn't sound right. I distinctly remember jiggling mine for my '90 when I would replace it (I used to do it every oil change there for a while). Then again, that's been quite a while ago, so maybe I'm wrong...

Irocelectric93

08-21-2013, 10:22 PM

I actually thought there was as well. I remember shaking mine too but then again honestly i haven't messed with a 3.0 in a while which is rather depressing i might add.

Ondonti

08-21-2013, 10:30 PM

That doesn't sound right. I distinctly remember jiggling mine for my '90 when I would replace it (I used to do it every oil change there for a while). Then again, that's been quite a while ago, so maybe I'm wrong...

Yes, There is a ball bearing in there or something like that. I know I have been able to tell a gummed up one from a happier one. I have never pressure tested one :P The car still feels fast with it setup :P
Down pipe is not connected. It sounds narly but I don't want to drive it much like this. I want to get a 3" flex section installed there were some awesome person installed a crimp bend near the intersection with my downpipe. I wish I had been more specific but I guess I was so mad about the Holset not sealing up I just gave up.

I will check on the Holset Vband...some other day. I don't exactly know why there is this bend on my exhaust, I think the tech must have cut something off that should have been there before. I wish I remembered what it looked like before he ruined it.

Outer race had been spinning in the hub and I didn't want to replace anything so I did this. .002 feeler guage. I was sorta surprised it worked but .002" was strong enough to not get crumpled up and it filled the space nicely.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2820.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2820.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2825.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbododge/Rear%20Axle/SANY2825.jpg.html)

Ondonti

08-24-2013, 06:35 AM

So,

Spirit 3.0 he341 was still on leanburn. 17.8-18.2 AFR cruising. Towed Duster to the race track. Car did great in 5th gear because AFR would drop due to the high load. Went up a large hill 1 mile from the track and put it into 4th. Around 3000 rpms at high AFR, part throttle, I may have dipped into boost up the hill and the motor seems to have lost a piston. Huge sudden clatter.

So while everything seems to work great in most situations, towing with a turbo has meant I don't need to use much throttle. In 5th gear I have to go near WOT up hills and AFR dropps to more reasonable levels but part throttle 4th gear the motor has such an easy time moving things along that it stays in the high timing zone of the map (part throttle).

This makes me wonder if the SBECII has a lot more timing then the older van calibrations from 2000-3500 rpms. There is a "dip" in those old van calibrations.

This all makes grumpy because Megasquirt would not have had this failure since timing would directly match load regardless of throttle position. That and I wouldn't have to lie to my ecu with the wideband to leanburn while cruising. Not sure what to do at this point. Get a junk engine or just see whats going on inside the motor. Also not sure what to do about the ECU issue. I think this is only a towing thing but I want to tow.

Icing on the cake was that Reaper1 towed my dolly the last mile to the track and I was failed on inspection for no battery cutoff switch. My battery is in the fender. I have never had a problem with that in the past.

- - - Updated - - -
================================================== ==============

Plugs 1,2,3 look good. Not sure why #5 looks wet. Maybe fuel? #4 has deposits on it. #6 must be a broken piston. What is crazy is that in the past a small ring gap would tear the top ringland off at the intake valve and destroy the plug. There is no plug damage here. I have a few too many responsibilities to be tearing apart this car again. My biggest concern is that I want to tow but I obviously can't turbo tow with a stock ECU. I don't like the idea of running megasquirt in my daily driver and I don't like the idea of all that time/effort for a car that just needs to not tow to be safe.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2828.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2828.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2829.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2829.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2830.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2830.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2831.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2831.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2832.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2832.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2833.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2833.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2835.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2835.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2839.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2839.jpg.html)

Aries_Turbo

08-24-2013, 02:10 PM

toss a piston in it.

you have some laying around?

Brian

Reaper1

08-24-2013, 02:35 PM

Looks like #4 was knocking a bit too. There's aluminum "salt" all over it. If it ripped the top ringland off, what we may have been hearing is the bottom part of the piston just rattling all around in there while the crown was sitting at the top of the bore kind of protecting the head from the carnage going on underneath. I think that's a stretch, but it could happen.

We won'y know until the heads are popped off.

Ondonti

08-24-2013, 07:05 PM

toss a piston in it.

you have some laying around?

Brian
I should. Annoying thing is that these are 2 year old Chrome rings that I gapped and installed which were meant to be a long term engine compliment. They only sell a set.

Looks like #4 was knocking a bit too. There's aluminum "salt" all over it. If it ripped the top ringland off, what we may have been hearing is the bottom part of the piston just rattling all around in there while the crown was sitting at the top of the bore kind of protecting the head from the carnage going on underneath. I think that's a stretch, but it could happen.

We won'y know until the heads are popped off.

Ringlands would break off from small stock ring gaps. If the ringland came off then I know these gaps were still not enough.

I am a bit worried about the cylinder wall being smacked around by the small end of the rod. The spark plug should be dead at this point if it was just a piece of piston.

Vigo

08-24-2013, 10:04 PM

Sundance 6g72

08-25-2013, 12:42 AM

you could run a cheep megasquirt for timing only. Timing is always super easy, especially when you know what it should and shouldnt be.

Ondonti

08-25-2013, 06:58 AM

If you dont want to run MS, why not pick up something like a used MSD boost retard box and run that? It still wouldnt give you the same total timing from part throttle to full throttle but it might give you enough less that this never happens again..

I thought about this the same night. I could also just dump base timing. The problem here is that timing is too high at part throttle and mid/high loads. Killing timing across the board either with or without MSD would result in yuck WOT performance. I was thinking today that I should just pull the boost controller off but this was not really a boost issue. More like the turbo creating a "zero vacuum" situation with very light throttle which would not normally be possible. Fact is, the more boost, the more the rising rate regulator will dump fuel and probably make things safer. Without the rising rate regulator, AFR will never hit 10-13:1 with things set to lean burn. This leanburn setup worked great for driving around and racing because I only got high loads with WOT. Towing changed that.
Megasquirt doesn't have these silly part throttle maps that are great for stock driving but terrible for modified performance.

you could run a cheep megasquirt for timing only. Timing is always super easy, especially when you know what it should and shouldnt be.

I honestly think the fuel part is easier to deal with except hot/cold starts, warmup, etc. Might as well go all the way at that point. I think our distributor requires ms2.

- - - Updated - - -

Wastegate is holding back some aluminum so I would bet that I was in boost while this failure occured, possibly a full 10psi since the wastegate would not start cracking open until 7-8 pounds of boost or so. If there was that much boost I don't know what the AFR was but before I had seen 13 AFR range in 5th gear during some mild boost part throttles. The Rising rate should have bumped it out of the 17-18:1 zone but I don't know if you get full WOT fueling when you are not WOT. Just because your OEM n/a map sensor is maxed out I don't know that it actually goes into full fuel dump. With how things are setup the AFR should have been high 10's if I was WOT. I do not think I was even close to that.

Raise your hands if your shortblock can handle 10 pounds of boost on naturually aspirated part throttle timing tables with AFR's not in the safe zone. My forged piston shortblock would have eaten this up and much worse. I do think a set of beefy cams would ease off detonation issues at low rpms.

I think for my first attempted towing I should have had my knock microphone on so I could listen to how the motor was behaving without having to filter out the exhaust note.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2842.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2842.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2843.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2843.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2845.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2845.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2846.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2846.jpg.html)
Uh oh, that is a piece of ringland. The head actually looks okay. This big piece is just stuck there from the surface tension of oil.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2847.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2847.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2848.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2848.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2849.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2849.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2850.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2850.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2851.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2851.jpg.html)
Piston cracked in half when trying to compress aluminum against the head.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2852.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2852.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2853.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2853.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2854.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2854.jpg.html)

So, I have never had a failure at such low rpms so that is probably why things don't look as melty mangled as they have in the past.

Things to check or suspect damaged,
- I will need to look at the intake and exhaust valves/seats to see if there is damage to the surfaces that need to seal.
- Rod bearing might be toast, rod might be bent. Hope the crankshaft is okay because that would save me a whole buncha labor.

The good
-The #6 piston looks intact enough that maybe I can still get use out of those rings. I hope they are not bent......grrrr

I have not turned the motor to check the cylinder walls. I am not terribly worried at this point.

I am only pulling one head off at this moment. I am assuming that the oil on plug #5 is simply backwash from #6 which is directly across from #5 in the plenum. #6 intake port is full of oil.

Vigo

08-25-2013, 11:49 AM

Ondonti

08-25-2013, 08:40 PM

Well looking at the 1989 OEM spark tables part throttle actually adds zero degrees at 0psi boost and WOT adds 1.5. PT timing is MAP based.

Now I have two scenarios. Either the small amount of metal is stuck at the wastegate just because it was an easy path to travel and the motor popped at part throttle high timing out of boost, or the piston failed at high boost low timing and the AFR was just way too high at part throttle.

It would help if I knew if closed loop is activated by MAP or TPS or both. If the motor was in open loop then AFRs would be high even with RRR. Probably 13-15s AFR. ECU would think it is running a safe AFR but I am busy lying to it because of leanburn WBo2 settings.

Honestly the way the OEM 3.0 cal looks in 1989, I don't think PT timing in boost is a problem since it actually runs less timing. Fueling is another issue though. I don't know about that part. Rising Rate Regulators are really meant to function with close loop in a predictable fashion.

Aries_Turbo

08-25-2013, 09:10 PM

Hmm. Well, i would think another option would be a factory computer with the timing tables changed so that part throttle and full throttle are the same. I think Brian Bucar did that for me on my spirit cal and my educated guess is that Rob Lloyd has the sbec2 v6 cal defined enough to do that. Might be worth asking him about it.

the cal i did for your spirit had more trickery that could be applied to a 3.0L na cal that is going to see boost...

yours was a 2 bar so right before 14.7psi, i added another data point and richened the last point up significantly to add fuel as the map sensor went blind. I also did that to the timing to take out timing right before the sensor went blind to attempt to keep the setup together on a 2bar deal.

depending on how defined the cal is for the 3.0 of your year, that stuff could be done as well?

Brian

Ondonti

08-26-2013, 10:51 AM

the cal i did for your spirit had more trickery that could be applied to a 3.0L na cal that is going to see boost...

yours was a 2 bar so right before 14.7psi, i added another data point and richened the last point up significantly to add fuel as the map sensor went blind. I also did that to the timing to take out timing right before the sensor went blind to attempt to keep the setup together on a 2bar deal.

depending on how defined the cal is for the 3.0 of your year, that stuff could be done as well?

Brian

I was looking at a 1987 t2 CSX "stage 2" bin that has your name on it. I see that the computer gives a lot less fuel at part throttle. That and timing seems to flatline as boost gets out towards 1 bar, instead of dropping......I was just looking at it to get an idea of what a well fleshed out cal looks like. 3.0 doesn't have much figured out and the fuel has just about nothing figured out.

Aries_Turbo

08-26-2013, 07:21 PM

I was looking at a 1987 t2 CSX "stage 2" bin that has your name on it. I see that the computer gives a lot less fuel at part throttle. That and timing seems to flatline as boost gets out towards 1 bar, instead of dropping......I was just looking at it to get an idea of what a well fleshed out cal looks like. 3.0 doesn't have much figured out and the fuel has just about nothing figured out.

csx stage 2 is a MP factory cal. my name is on it for work that i did helping to return the quite modified "blueberry" cals back to stock and csx stage 2 form.

robs turbonator staged cals would be good ones to look at.

i dont know, do the 3.0l sbec2 cals have 3d maps?

Brian

Ondonti

08-26-2013, 07:35 PM

csx stage 2 is a MP factory cal. my name is on it for work that i did helping to return the quite modified "blueberry" cals back to stock and csx stage 2 form.

robs turbonator staged cals would be good ones to look at.

i dont know, do the 3.0l sbec2 cals have 3d maps?

Brian

Rob says they have 3d maps. I was just looking at the stuff on the Shelgame google site.

Aries_Turbo

08-26-2013, 09:58 PM

Vigo

08-26-2013, 10:18 PM

I think i've heard Brent say they never had real ecus. It's something ive been curious about myself, but i always got the impression it was a dead end from the way people talk about it.

Ondonti

08-27-2013, 11:18 AM

yeah i just looked at some of them too. they do have 3d maps.

it looks like if you swapped to a 1990 ecu, there is enough defined in that cal to do some fooling around with some tables to make it safer to tow and boost.

Brian

- - - Updated - - -

i take it noone has ever got their hands on the 3.0L turbo prototype ecu or did they use something totally different than our ecus?

Brian
Swapping to an older ECU sounds like more work then Megasquirt. Now, if I bought a 1990 3.0 Spirit, that would make it a bit easier. Piggyback plug and play harness is very easy to setup for megasquirt. It is the complete rewire install that is killer. The real downside is idle and tip in/decel/transitional driving quality with Megasquirt and the time required to improve that + the possibility of never getting it near stock.

I think i've heard Brent say they never had real ecus. It's something ive been curious about myself, but i always got the impression it was a dead end from the way people talk about it.
I don't know how Chrysler or Shelby would perform bench dyno work on an engine that is in the developmental stage and has no predecessors. I don't think they would have anything manufactured for 10 engines. I would assume they used something onsite that is meant for data recording and fine tuning things while also running the engine. I don't even know what year the prototype 3.0 turbo setup was in active development. Had to be quite early with the Dodge Stealth being released in 1991 which means it was sold in 1990 and had probably killed off competing projects before the turn of the decade.

Vigo

08-27-2013, 12:38 PM

Swapping to an older ECU sounds like more work then Megasquirt. Now, if I bought a 1990 3.0 Spirit, that would make it a bit easier. Piggyback plug and play harness is very easy to setup for megasquirt. It is the complete rewire install that is killer. The real downside is idle and tip in/decel/transitional driving quality with Megasquirt and the time required to improve that + the possibility of never getting it near stock.

What makes you think going from SBEC2 to SBEC1 is difficult? It could be a simple as changing out the injectors and re-pinning a couple of wires and then plugging in a 1990 ecu.

Aries_Turbo

08-27-2013, 09:44 PM

What makes you think going from SBEC2 to SBEC1 is difficult? It could be a simple as changing out the injectors and re-pinning a couple of wires and then plugging in a 1990 ecu.

exactly. same ecu connector. shouldnt be hard at all.

Vigo

08-27-2013, 10:10 PM

I wish i could say i had a 1990 ECU to donate but i dont. I had one extra for my old 90 3.0/5spd car, but i had to use it when i pulled up a bunch of traces on the other one like a tard.

Sundance 6g72

08-28-2013, 12:17 AM

SOOO I have a picture of something that brent is going to post

HOLY COW

Spiritman

08-28-2013, 01:49 AM

swapping to a 1990 computer would be a breeze. my turbo car is a 1994 acclaim that started life as a 2.5na car. i swapped in the engine harness out of my 91 3.0 4spd car. direct plug in. we should find out if rob has figured anything else out with the 89-91 stuff. as i would like to try using my socketed 91 ecu.

Aries_Turbo

08-28-2013, 05:49 AM

lemme dig through my pile of ecu's to see what i have. I may have one.

Brian

Vigo

08-28-2013, 12:31 PM

89 ecu is SMEC (what i've been hoarding for my 3.0 project), 90-91 is SBEC1 (that i know Rob has sold at least one 3.0 cal for), and 92-95 is SBEC2.

Aries_Turbo

08-28-2013, 09:06 PM

i dunno if you are explaining that for me or others....

heck im going to have to sit there and look up part numbers as i dont really know what i have 3.0L wise. i know i have some mystery sbecs sitting there that may be 3.0L and alot of turbo and tbi smec's and one 2.5L high torque sbec.

Brian

Ondonti

08-29-2013, 12:13 PM

Its a good possibility I will be putting Megasquirt into another car and I don't see myself profiting from diversifying one of my vehicles. Having 3 cars running M.S. doesn't sound bad because the time investment (continuous familiarization) could be shared across platforms. Needing different tuning solutions when I can already tune my Duster with my Phone. The Spirit is still using archeic fuel control with no spark control and strangely it still would have been find if I was not being greedy about the fuel economy. The car has had wiring problems for its entire life (even prior to my owning it) and I still see Rob avoiding looking at the 3.0. I don't have the time or background to try to flesh things out in those old Hex mazes when nobody else cares. Justification for putting megasquirt into this "other" car falls along the same line of simplification of my life. I wish this stupid motor was not broken because I put a lot of time into it and the destruction is now irreparable. I can build another motor but I don't really feel like making that time sacrifice. I don't want to pay anyone either. Instead of giving up on having a nice motor in the Spirit, I am sorta thinking about putting in a junkyard motor and then building up a shortblock with some forged pistons on the side. The hard thing about that is choosing compression ratios. 10, 9, 8...????? That is so hard to choose when I just blew up my motor lean burning to get an extra 1.5mpg and ignoring the bad drivability for 2 years. 8:1 would be very very very fun on pump gas but I like economy and I already have a fun car and if I go 9:1 why do I even bother forged except to avoid...this stuff happening when my cheap side gets the best of me. Or 10:1, low boost, pump gas, low fun, save a few dollars on MPG when I only drive the car about 7,000 miles a year. I think the constant 13 mile trip to work also makes me not want forged pistons.

As for Pics. I had a hard time showing how bad the cylinder wall damage is at the bottom of the bore. It is bad.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2855.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2855.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2856.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2856.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2857.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2857.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2859.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2859.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2860.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2860.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2862.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2862.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2863.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2863.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2864.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2864.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2865.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2865.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2866.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2866.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2867.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2867.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2868.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2868.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2869.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2869.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2870.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2870.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2871.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2871.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2872.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2872.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2875.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2875.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2876.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2876.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2878.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2878.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2879.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2879.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2880.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2880.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2881.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2881.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2882.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2882.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2883.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2883.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2885.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2885.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I really really really hate the 25 picture rule per post and how that conflicts with the automatic post continuation feature on this site. Somebody make a freaking post so I can post more pictures.

Vigo

08-29-2013, 12:58 PM

i dunno if you are explaining that for me or others....
You know i wouldnt talk to you like that! :p That was for this statement which deserved a clarification:

the 89-91 stuff

anyway

Instead of giving up on having a nice motor in the Spirit, I am sorta thinking about putting in a junkyard motor and then building up a shortblock with some forged pistons on the side
My take would be to throw in another junkyard motor and get real tuning control. You already made 440whp on 5 cylinders with 10:1 cast pistons. This motor only blew up at ~260whp on 6 cyls with 8.x:1 compression because of tuning issues. It lived for years and would have lived FOREVER with real tuning control. I dont even see a need for forged pistons ever on this car, stock pistons would probably take everything an he341 can put out if the tune was right.

If you want to throw money at something you could put longer rods in your old forged motor to bump the CR. ;) ;) ;)

Ondonti

08-29-2013, 01:05 PM

The Grim Reaper was Tailgating me.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/IMG_20130823_165558.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/IMG_20130823_165558.jpg.html)

More pics
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2886.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2886.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2887.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2887.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

You know i wouldnt talk to you like that! :p That was for this statement which deserved a clarification:

anyway

My take would be to throw in another junkyard motor and get real tuning control. You already made 440whp on 5 cylinders with 10:1 cast pistons. This motor only blew up at ~260whp on 6 cyls with 8.x:1 compression because of tuning issues. It lived for years and would have lived FOREVER with real tuning control. I dont even see a need for forged pistons ever on this car, stock pistons would probably take everything an he341 can put out if the tune was right.

If you want to throw money at something you could put longer rods in your old forged motor to bump the CR. ;)
Yes I agree real tuning control. It still would have been fine if I never towed. No 6 cylinder car builds 10psi with a big turbo at 3000 rpms and just sits there at part throttle holding speed with high AFR in closed loop. Just stop lying to the ECU and it should have been fine :(
Real tuning control would give me the high cruise AFRs I want and still work in boost which obviously is what I like.

Sundance 6g72

08-29-2013, 04:01 PM

Ondonti

08-30-2013, 05:50 AM

in all fairness, alot of people wouldnt have been able to keep it together with real tuning control (without outside help)

you did it with some crazy regulator. Get some real tuning going and youl be fine :thumb:

I got greedy trying to have fuel economy at cruise by 1. falsifying narrowband output to the ECU to run 17.8-18.2 AFR "stoich", 2. fuel at WOT boost, and the 3. ability to tow. Apparently the DSM formula applies here. I can only have 2 of 3 things with ghetto fuel at the same time. All I really needed to do was pull over and plug the laptop into the wideband and reset things. Before boom I was getting great mileage :P

Towing with boost was pretty awesome though. Having previously always towed at high elevation, I can basically leave it in 5th in most situations. I didn't actualy need to shift to 4th but I stupidly thought it would be a better thing. 5th gear would have peg'd 10:1 AFR since I would need WOT to keep pace. Reaper1 towed the Junkyard back home in his 340 powered Ram and kept it at 50 and I was itching to go 70 up hills like I had been doing :P

I have given it some thought and feel motivated to make this a better overall project. Maybe not right away but I had no plans in the past to change this car except maybe cams. I am thinking MS would let me have a few hundred more HP on pump gas and at that point I could even upgrade the pistons for long term use and they would not be wasted on a ghetto fuel tune. I didn't want that much power before but it kinda makes sense now since that would also get me safe towing and no more lying to the ECU about AFR. Joes car showed an ebay turbo setup making great power, especially after cams, so I think simply cams and MS would get me real happy and be safe. The Duster was very strong with just cams and stock heads on very low boost. At least with 92 octane I won't need big injectors.

Reaper1

08-30-2013, 04:11 PM

Reaper1 towed the Junkyard back home in his 340 powered Ram and kept it at 50 and I was itching to go 70 up hills like I had been doing :P

Edit: The truck is a '99 Ram 2500 2WD with the 5.9L 360ci gas engine. I did tow it around 50-60, but I am also a mpg, grandma-driving, slow person in my truck because, well....it sucks on fuel millage! LOL I also was towing without the OD on like you are supposed to (I'm still weary about the tranny right now). I will say I was very surprised that the fuel millage didn't suffer at all towing without the OD on! That could be a good or a bad thing, but I'm choosing the more positive "good thing". :thumb:

I wanna help get the trailer up to snuff...repack bearings, get the ramps to not bounce off the road when going over expansion joints (although the *THWANG* sound and sparks are kind of entertaining), better tires...I've heard and seen enough towing horror stories that I'm cautious when it comes to trailers.

Anyway, I hope Brent can get the Spirit back up and running as it really is a fun car and I find it extremely cool that it can tow! :thumb: :thumb:

Irocelectric93

08-31-2013, 11:19 AM

in all fairness, alot of people wouldnt have been able to keep it together with real tuning control (without outside help)

you did it with some crazy regulator. Get some real tuning going and youl be fine :thumb:

This is true. Alot of people who have "nice" or "built" cars are plug and play tunes. It does take some real dedication to get a car tuned properly. You see what guys like ed put into getting things right and Joe as well. Not that these tunes are perfect but they are fairly safe to be sure. Not to mention its really hard to hammer out all aspects of your tune without a dyno. I know you already know this stuff but i just don't want you to get too discouraged is all.

Aries_Turbo

08-31-2013, 03:07 PM

Not to mention its really hard to hammer out all aspects of your tune without a dyno.

Not exactly.

you just need two people in the car, good datalogging stuff on the car and a few sets of brakes.

you load each data breakpoint with the brakes (more load than an intertia dyno) in a low enough gear that you arent speeding like maniacs, and you tune each data breakpoint till its correct.

you can do fuel and timing this way on the road in 2nd or 3rd gear and not even break the speed limit.

its how the super 60 package was developed and thats a pretty safe canned tune.

blasting a car to redline in a high gear on a dyno doesnt keep the engine operating in each area of the map long enough to adjust it appropriately. thats why alot of cars run great on the dyno and then come off and still have bogs and pops and misses when on the street.

Brian

Sundance 6g72

08-31-2013, 04:55 PM

Irocelectric93

08-31-2013, 07:39 PM

Not exactly.

you just need two people in the car, good datalogging stuff on the car and a few sets of brakes.

you load each data breakpoint with the brakes (more load than an intertia dyno) in a low enough gear that you arent speeding like maniacs, and you tune each data breakpoint till its correct.

you can do fuel and timing this way on the road in 2nd or 3rd gear and not even break the speed limit.

its how the super 60 package was developed and thats a pretty safe canned tune.

blasting a car to redline in a high gear on a dyno doesnt keep the engine operating in each area of the map long enough to adjust it appropriately. thats why alot of cars run great on the dyno and then come off and still have bogs and pops and misses when on the street.

Brian
Actually yes. Having another person is probably the biggest piece of the puzzle from what tuning i've done. Datalogging goes a long way but an extra set of eyes and hands helps for certain. I was not implying blasting a car to redline in high gear on a dyno, but rather it is the best place to see specifics on HP/trq curve etc. I don't think that it would be required in this instance for this car seeing as how this IS NOT Brent's race/track car. I did not think/know about that whole brakes idea, but that makes sense. To go on what Joe stated yes tuner studio is "the cats pajamas" as DJ once said.

Aries_Turbo

08-31-2013, 10:50 PM

Tuner Studio makes it stupid easy. As long as you can get the car to idle nice, you are good. Cruise around with the auto tune on (analyze live) and it can get it pretty damn close. WOT tuning is even easier as long as you can read a data log and change the fuel map accordingly.

BUT most of us MS users already know that stuff :) I <3 megasquirt.

i love tuning ms cars with tuner studio. have two friends with the setup. one is a 5.0 mustang and the other is a turbo 420a eclipse with a t2 garret from a td. system works well especially for part throttle.

Actually yes. Having another person is probably the biggest piece of the puzzle from what tuning i've done. Datalogging goes a long way but an extra set of eyes and hands helps for certain. I was not implying blasting a car to redline in high gear on a dyno, but rather it is the best place to see specifics on HP/trq curve etc. I don't think that it would be required in this instance for this car seeing as how this IS NOT Brent's race/track car. I did not think/know about that whole brakes idea, but that makes sense. To go on what Joe stated yes tuner studio is "the cats pajamas" as DJ once said.

i was only commenting on the dyno stuff really because im not looking for bleeding edge power but for safe values that will keep the engine together. the datalogging comment was just so something isnt missed or overlooked. a second person is critical to watch the values while the driver rides the brakes and works the throttle to keep the car at a single rpm/vac/boost etc point till temperatures stabilize so an accurate assessment of what needs to be changed can be determined.

yeah i never thought about loading the car against the brakes either till 2008.... when a bunch of chrysler engineers shared the idea and explained how the s60 package was tuned. i love the idea. i used to do banzai 4th gear runs to tune on low traffic farm roads. now i can do it right next to my house without a fuss.

Brian

bakes

09-02-2013, 01:05 AM

Time to buy and flip a car for profit to buy some forged piston and rods . Then find a block and bore that block over .40

Ondonti

09-02-2013, 01:02 PM

Currently the owner of a 1998 3.0 with unknown mileage but very clean valvetrain and QTY (2) a523 transmissions for extra parts for the 5 a543's that I own.

Sundance 6g72

09-02-2013, 01:17 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Happy_smiley_face.png

Vigo

09-02-2013, 07:24 PM

5 a543s!!!

Damn, i have to put mine back together before i can even say i own ONE. http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/Emoticons/emot-smith_zps1a64925d.gif

Sundance 6g72

09-02-2013, 08:52 PM

I have two :D

Irocelectric93

09-04-2013, 04:42 PM

technically i have two and a complete 568 gearset. :p

Reaper1

09-05-2013, 11:23 AM

I've got 3-1/2 of them IIRC...

Ondonti

09-22-2013, 12:52 PM

Oil pump on the junkyard motor is smoked. Out of tolerances in all measurements. Probably why the bearings were bad. I thought it just ran low on oil. Shortblock was probably heavily abused oil change wise.

RoadWarrior222

09-22-2013, 02:27 PM

Booo :(

Gets harder as cars get older, figuring out why exactly it went to the yard, before you bother pulling stuff. 'coz something 10 years old, probably ain't there for a dead battery, whereas something approaching 20 might be.... or it it might be "proper fugged"

Ondonti

09-22-2013, 02:52 PM

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2895.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2895.jpg.html)
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Vigo

09-23-2013, 11:46 AM

sweet! How do the crank journals look? I ask because of those bearing pics.

Ondonti

09-24-2013, 12:36 AM

sweet! How do the crank journals look? I ask because of those bearing pics.

Not minty

Ondonti

11-25-2013, 02:02 PM

400 miles on it, been driving it to work this month. Put the boost controller back on after I changed the oil at 200 something miles.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2969.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY2969.jpg.html)
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Ondonti

11-25-2013, 02:11 PM

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http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3121.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3121.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3122.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3122.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3126.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3126.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3130.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3130.jpg.html)
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http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3147.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3147.jpg.html)
I am piston, hear me roar! Oil pan wins.
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Sundance 6g72

11-25-2013, 02:25 PM

didnt spray the headgaskets this time around?

edit: nevermind... those pictures didnt show up the first time :confused:

Ondonti

11-25-2013, 02:47 PM

Modified the headgaskets to balance flow for teh win

Vigo

11-25-2013, 03:48 PM

That pic with the drillbit and the piston, are you just cleaning the drain hole or enlarging?

Sundance 6g72

11-25-2013, 03:58 PM

I dont understand why the gaskets dont just match perfect for those passages from the get go

Ondonti

11-26-2013, 12:44 AM

That pic with the drillbit and the piston, are you just cleaning the drain hole or enlarging?
Both. I bet lots of oil burning in old abused motors is due to these ports being clogged as every abused 6g72 motor I have seen has NO flow left through these drain ports. I took apart a very sludged up 4.2 Ford but can't remember what the piston drains looked like. All those plastics used in the oil to create variable viscosity by heat range sure ruin a motor when they break down (not changing oil). I think I still question the idea of changing oil just because it has been sitting but I understand oil being bad from use and heat.

I dont understand why the gaskets dont just match perfect for those passages from the get go
They have to be reversable for each side of the block. If they were cylinder bank specific that would be the only way to get things right.

Ondonti

12-29-2013, 06:12 AM

Positive thing going on is that the combo exhaust & stock pcv system is working great. The oil pan is actually clean right now. Only leak right now is the turbo outlet which seems to be a perpetual problem.

Negative thing going on, the water pump feed pipe which sits across the block has too much pitting to seal the O ring in the position that it stops at. Have to look for spares or finally try something else.

Reaper1

12-29-2013, 04:30 PM

JB Weld is your friend! ;-)

Irocelectric93

12-30-2013, 10:32 AM

I had to replace my water pump feed pipe a couple years ago on my daytona when my water pump crapped out. I got a new one somewhere...i might have even found it at the dealer at that time. I've looked around and new ones are no where to be found obviously. I believe my dad was the one who found it and I remember being shocked then that he found one new. I can look through some of my spare 3.0 parts and see if i have a good one lying around.

Ondonti

12-30-2013, 11:39 AM

I picked one up from storage and I am going to clean it up. It is from the recent junkyard motor. The one that failed was my spare that was sketchy to begin with. I have not been able to find the parts needed to make a replacement that makes me happy as I wanted something with -AN fittings. If just pipe, I would prefer a 1 piece setup that minimizes leak points. The big complication is the bypass and heater core lines. That and the ~1.57" ID of the water pump inlet is not a size anything is made in. Except maybe this aluminum tube http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/tube-pipe-bar-38/round-tubing-16-gauge-64/6061-aluminum-72/1-50-od-16-gauge-aluminum-straight-tube-364.html Make some ridges to hold an O ring in place. Then weld a brace/bracket and add pipes for the bypass and heater core return.

Also found a new one. About $17 so maybe time to buy a couple. I remember long ago wanting to buy one from the dealer and I got sticker shock for the 30 something they wanted during the no money days. I even made someone grumpy over a dealer discount since I wanted to back out and just buy an O ring with a discount.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1322062&cc=1098503
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockauto.co m%2Finfo%2FRB%2F626-302-007.jpg&imagekey=1322062-0&width=450
Listed under heating and air conditioning. Sorta ridiculous that its not in the cooling section.

Irocelectric93

12-30-2013, 12:45 PM

I looked at rockauto first under the cooling section. Glad you found it though and i'll keep that in mind. I might even buy one just to have around since they seem to always get boogered in the same spot.

Ondonti

12-30-2013, 09:34 PM

Finally found the weird one that I owned at some point (not sure where it is).
3000gt automatic transmission SOHC 6g72 had a 1 piece "water pipe" as they call it. I would rather have something like this.
This link will die but I saved the pictures for future reference.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/120965201643?lpid=82
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/97-1997-MITSUBISHI-3000GT-3000-GT-3-0-SOHC-ENGINE-COOLANT-WATER-PIPE-/00/s/NzUzWDE2MDA=/$(KGrHqNHJDUE+O,FNWnYBQIq1FrWZg~~60_57.JPG

Vigo

12-31-2013, 01:13 AM

It's good that new ones are readily available.

How difficult is this repair on the spirit with the turbo being on the crossover?

Ondonti

12-31-2013, 10:04 AM

It's good that new ones are readily available.

How difficult is this repair on the spirit with the turbo being on the crossover?
...more difficult... I didn't completely remove the turbo I just disconnected the downpipe, outlet pipe, and the crossover/support bolts. Deciding the block water feed pipe was bad really made me grumpy since I then had to remove the intake manifold.

After getting it back together I pressure tested it and it turns out the rubber bypass hose I decided to use that was on the backup pipe had a cut in it near the end so that leaked when testing. Cut off the end to alleviate that leak.
According to the pressure tester and soapy water, there is still a leak at the intake manifold bypass area but the other leak that makes me grumpy is the 1 year old radiator. Not sure if that is my fault from running very low mix % on coolant. We had a cold snap a few weeks ago that got near record lows (for Seattle).
Most awesome leak is how I saw water leaking from a freeze plug in the front head on the driver side. I thought it was coming out of the headgasket at first.

For the pipe, the one I had in storage had corrosion too but luckily the corrosion line was about 1/4" farther inside the pipe. That meant my O-ring would end up sitting on the clean part of the pipe. Filed the heck out of the water pump O ring groove because it was cruddy.

Scariest thing was that I lost a lower intake manifold washer and decided to gamble that it was not sitting on top of an intake valve.

I took pictures of measurements of the water pump pipe. Someday I will upload them.

Irocelectric93

12-31-2013, 10:27 PM

Magnets are your friend for getting intake mani washers when they might have fallen into odd places. Thats a bummer on the radiator though. What kind of warranty did/does it have?

Spiritman

01-06-2014, 11:30 PM

updates??

Ondonti

01-08-2014, 12:14 PM

Magnets are your friend for getting intake mani washers when they might have fallen into odd places. Thats a bummer on the radiator though. What kind of warranty did/does it have?
Probably only 1 year. It doesn't seem to be leaking actual coolant...Just bubbles of air when its completely empty and under ~10psi of air with soapy water sprayed. I WAS happy with the radiator when I put it in but this makes me feel irked. Actually bought a new radiator instead of the millionth used one like the Duster.

updates??

Been driving it around. The Holset oil feed is now leaking pretty bad. Fumes in cabin and smokes out the passenger headlight when sitting in very cold weather. I messed with the EARL's 90 fitting and I think the O ring type washer has failed. At first it seemed loose but tightening it did not help. I can't really add a second O ring in there but I have heard of people making giant copper crush washers..however that works.

Ondonti

01-21-2014, 12:13 AM

Because my lower radiator hose is leaking badly, just bought from Rockauto:

BECK/ARNLEY 0394003 (039-4003) Water Pump O-Ring $ 1.08 10 $ 10.80
DORMAN 626303 (626-303) Heater Hose Assembly $ 20.79 1 $ 20.79
DORMAN 626302 (626-302) Heater Hose Assembly $ 16.02 3 $ 48.06
FEL-PRO 35336 Thermostat / Housing / Water Outlet Seal $ 0.71 3 $ 2.13
GATES 28411 Heater Hose $ 0.69 6 $ 4.14
GOODYEAR 61469 Radiator Lower Hose $ 6.40 2 $ 12.80
GOODYEAR 3029 (3029:P) Bypass Hose $ 1.94 2 $ 3.88
MOTORAD 7240192 (7240-192) Thermostat $ 6.02 2 $ 12.04
MOTORAD 7240160 (7240-160) Thermostat $ 6.79 1 $ 6.7

The 20 dollar heater hose assembly is the transmission side water pipe. its not exactly the correct one for our cars so I just bought one. I think its one of the minivan styles. I can always cut off the extra piping if I ever use it.

I also bought a bunch of B-Quiet sound damper product (lighter then dynamat xtreme) for the Duster and I will probably sparingly put some in the Spirit eventually.

Ondonti

02-11-2014, 12:56 PM

Mention that Rock Auto sent out those 2 lower radiator hoses and one of them is oddball and missing a bend (not made in the same factory) and after my wife bugged me I called and they are sending me another one and letting me keep the oddball hose :P Yay.

Messed around with my Holset oil inlet fitting some more. Had purchased copper crush washers, used one, and still had a leak. I don't know if the crush washer was leaking but I still had a leak and when looking more closely I saw that the AN fitting was not tight enough to seal on the hose end. This is the connection that I normally take apart when disassembling things. Tightened that and used copper RTV on the copper crush washer and let it sit for a day. Didn't check it yet but still commuting.

I have been thinking a bit about how my modified throttle cable cam messes with the drivability of the car. The rpms are very easy to control but it makes the car feel sluggish since 1/4 pedal barely cracks open the throttle. Its hard to get over this. I feel this less with the same modification done to a larger 65mm tb vs the ported 58 on the Spirit.

Vigo

02-12-2014, 12:34 AM

In the future you will ask your phone how to get a better throttle cam and it will automatically translate and outsource your request to a cheap foreign solidworks designer who will email the design back to you so you can print it out in your 3d printer.

Ondonti

04-13-2014, 10:17 PM

I was going to take the Spirit to the track and make a few slicked passes on it during the NW Honda Meet BUT as it was being loaded onto the dolly the intercooler was just low enough to catch and get the bottom protection plate torn back on one side. Breaking that weld also exposed a nice hole in the end tank. Boo. Going to see if my coworker can fix it.

I was really hoping to see if the clutch would give out as it has been giving some bad signs. That will have to be addressed.

Sundance 6g72

04-14-2014, 12:52 PM

*well my DD is having clutch issues, I think ill go take it to the track with slicks*

:P

c2xejk

04-14-2014, 04:11 PM

*well my DD is having clutch issues, I think ill go take it to the track with slicks*

:P

I read that as "While the clutch is still functional, I can't justify replacing it..."

Vigo

04-14-2014, 06:24 PM

*well my DD is having clutch issues, I think ill go take it to the track with slicks

That's exactly how i ran a 15.2 with my 14 second 3.0 Dynasty. And a 15.8 with my 14 second turbo van although i wasnt actually DDing that one. Why not?

Brent should tell me where the cheapest unsprung 3puck disc is sold so i can buy one for the aries and hand-down the 4 puck to my caravan and go race it again.

c2xejk

04-15-2014, 04:52 PM

I would think Clutchnet has the cheapest, but I ordered a unspring 6-puck and received a sprung 6-puck... So you may or may not get a unsprung...

Vigo

04-15-2014, 05:07 PM

The thing i dont understand is i remember seeing those discs for like $70 there in the past and now they are $159. I can buy a dual diaphragm pressure plate and run a stock disc for about the same money. A $70 disc is a no brainer but at almost $200 i have to actually think about it. :p

c2xejk

04-17-2014, 12:56 PM

Right now they are 10% off and the price includes shipping (so $143, shipped). Strangely, the 4 and 6 puck clutches are cheaper...

Ondonti

04-17-2014, 01:40 PM

Hey, I really like the 6 puck and my experience with Bansheenut's 6 puck was that they alternate rivet directions and that (or some other factor) actually caused a difference in wear. 3 pucks on each side were tearing up the most on a slipped clutch (weak plate that when replaced with a better one made the clutch hold high rpm VHT soaked 24.5x8 MT slick launches).

I posted picks of this someplace but I am actually thinking about a 6 puck if I can get somebody to rebuild the old +40% real TIII plate that I have in storage which has a few thousand miles but bent straps from a misshift. Bansheenut seemed to like the engagement of his 6 puck a lot and I figure a +40% TIII should hold a LOT more on a 6 puck then a 4 puck combined with a billion mile OEM equipment T1/3.0 plate.

The 3 puck is bad to the bone but Kyle (Billet PT6262 powered 3.0 Acclaim) says his engages fairly roughly. Mine works great. Can't explain the difference. Stock material flywheels are definitely better.

BTW this intercooler never had any provisions for bolting to any structures. I might be changing that since the damage in the middle of the tank and fins on the backside is from wear/vibration against the chassis.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3448.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3448.jpg.html)
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http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3455.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3455.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3456.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3456.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3458.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3458.jpg.html)

Reaper1

04-17-2014, 03:42 PM

Man, it's a shame you never have gotten to drive my Daytona with the TU Purple Plate and 6-puck disc. I think you would like it.

Looking at the intercooler, I guess it might have been a small blessing in disguise that it got damaged. The damage caused by the vibration was going to cause some issues eventually, too.

Ondonti

04-18-2014, 10:18 AM

Ondonti

05-15-2014, 08:13 PM

Funny thing, I guess my coworker did a leak check and actually welded 3 of the tubes AND the location in the center that was damaged. Then found a lot more small leaks. I don't think he had fun because he said he sold his high frequency box years ago and that lets him do nice pretty welds whereas he was just "scratching" this one. He wants me to buy a new one next time I wreck this...or build something so he has an excuse to buy another high frequency box.

I reoriented the intercooler higher ~2" and added some zip ties to both lift and pull the intercooler forwards. Also added rubber to some locations where it will or can hit steel. The Evo endtanks are a real pain. Had to remove more material from my driver's headlight frame and I shimmed both headlights outward slightly. Passenger headlight already had direct contact between the bulb housing and IC piping (already cut out all the headlight frame in that spot).

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3489.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SANY3489.jpg.html)

Sundance 6g72

05-15-2014, 11:41 PM

I pitched my intercooler pretending it was leaking (had a nice dent).

Its on the list of things I need to buy for the new car... Walbro, IC kit, BC coilovers, bla bla bla

Ondonti

06-15-2014, 01:29 AM

Had to replace the fusible link that powers the OEM ASD (auto shutdown relay) and ecu and coil and fuel pump relay and alternator field. Not sure why Dodge wanted to have so many things powered by one fusible link or why they have to splice it at so many different locations. I had the first 30 amp fuse blow out right away when I turned the key "on" (didn't even know it was the correct fuse) so I went through all the systems, disconnecting them all and looking for a short to ground. Only ground was where the various power wires hooked up to the ecu (not sure why that is). Anyways I finally got the guts to put it all back together system by system and the fuse didn't blow.

Then for fun,

I tried an audio recording of knock on my wife's a670 Spirit and in the cold weather it made noise but I couldn't say it was knock compared to recordings I took last summer (I might have taken the timing back from 15 degrees to 12 base timing). Those also had an audible knock but on the program Spectrogram version 5.0.6 does not show the same loud knocking sound or any sound at 6200hz. I had turned the recording volume down a little so I don't know if that made a difference. The audio recording sounds clean compared to what I actually heard in the earbuds "live"

Then tried a recording of the He341 Spirit and it did not make the audible knocking sound during light load driving. I couldn't make a 3rd or 4th gear pull because its damp and the tires just spun. I was going up a giant hill to help add load and try to make it knock. Spectrogram did not show any knock. That makes me feel a LITTLE better but I need to get a recording with traction and full boost. It doesn't knock during spoolup before it spins so I feel good there. I think the stock timing map is actually very good for a moderate to large turbo because timing is pulled after 2400 rpms which is when the turbo spools. Timing doesn't come back to what it was at 2400 until over 4500 rpms.

Reaper1

06-16-2014, 11:45 PM

Ondonti

06-17-2014, 12:40 PM

Glad you got it fixed. I was actually going to suggest that you start taking away circuits until things quite blowing. You got there before me! :)

Also good news about the knock recordings (well the good things that came out of it anyway). We could always hook your car to my truck and then let you car try to pull my truck up that hill! :evil: Then, if it brakes we already have a towstrap and a tow vehicle!! :deal:

Hmm, something tells me not to do anymore towing up hills with boost...at least not part throttle.

I also learned that the huge backfires (afterfire gunshots) I was getting the past few weeks were caused by my speed sensor wire not being connected to the ECU. I blame Reaper1 because the wire must have gotten pulled apart while we were probing wires on the ecu when getting the a/c circuit to work again. With no speed signal the ecu cuts almost all fuel on decel. With speed signal the car is much smoother on decel because it injects a lot of fuel (still 15-16:1 air fuel ratio instead of pegging the wideband lean).

Reaper1

06-18-2014, 01:34 PM

Oh sure....just because my car is infinitely broken I get blamed for busting yours! LOL :P :bolt:

I liked the backfires...because race car!! Right? :D

Glad you did get it fixed. Honestly I wouldn't have thought about looking at the SDS signal for a backfire issue.

Ondonti

06-21-2014, 07:06 AM

Dry day so decent traction in 3rd.

This is a spectrogram of 3rd gear and 10psi boost. Stock n/a timing (12 base setting), 92 octane.
There does not appear to be any knock. The only thing that looks like knock is the rev limiter at the end. Also took a complete datalog of the pull by videorecording the DRBII scanner. Checking those ignition timing numbers vs what I already had documented, I made a new spreadsheet that autopopulates all the load points for Megasquirt's 12x12 table and all I have to change is WOT timing and then the modifier I want for each load cell. I made both an OEM part throttle an OEM WOT load group (1989 bin file) for n/a values and then since the WOT numbers are fairly lame for load when you are not at 100kpa/0psi (in vacuum) I made a column of load values that take the average between WOT and PT. Those numbers very closely match the maps I had made already using Evo 10 and 1999 vr4 tables for cell to cell differenciation reference. 10:1 pistons in the Duster might not like the timing map under vacuum but 92 octane vs 87 might make that a non issue. I have a very conservative boost (100+kpa) spark map since there is no turbo on the Duster to even bother testing out.

Being able to run stock timing on 10psi with stock 8.9:1 partial skirt 1.2,1.5,3.0mm ringed OEM pistons means I can be a lot less conservative with my Duster's megasquirt tune when it gets back to boosting.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SpiritHe34110psi3rdgearupNikeHill.png (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/SpiritHe34110psi3rdgearupNikeHill.png.html)

Vigo

06-21-2014, 11:05 AM

Wow, no knock@10psi on oem timing and 92 octane? That's pretty sweet considering the amount of power that boost level can get you.

Reaper1

06-21-2014, 02:55 PM

VERY nice, Brent! :thumb:

Ondonti

06-21-2014, 06:26 PM

Wow, no knock@10psi on oem timing and 92 octane? That's pretty sweet considering the amount of power that boost level can get you.

Yeah, makes me feel pretty confident that with megasquirt or a boost button miracle you could throw down 350-400whp with a stock motor and decent turbo with only 92 octane. Going from 10psi to 17-20psi with proper spark advance seems pretty reasonable. That said, this motor has aggressive ring gaps just in case. Even large ring gaps won't save the motor from everything as I learned towing up the hill while leanburning.

I think this is a good place to load up the engine for knock testing.
http://wikimapia.org/702541/Nike-Hill

Ondonti

07-02-2014, 08:47 PM

While comparing the distributor setup on all three of my 3.0 vehicles, I found that my He341 Spirit's rotor was not in the same position with the timing marks lined up. I then realized that it wobbled back and forth and my 2 other motors did not. Took the rotor off and found that the post that screws into the distributor was loose. Removed the post and the optical sensor cover and found that the slotted disc inside had its half moon key surfaces banged up from vibrating back and forth. Both parts have a LOT of play (about 8 degrees) from the damage caused by years of vibration. I put the optical sensor slotted disc in the middle of its accidental adjustability window and turned the post all the way counterclockwise and locked it down.

Now I have to reset timing since its likely to be very off. Makes me wonder how often my timing was messing up, wandering, or being strange.

Vigo

07-02-2014, 09:16 PM

Im going to go with 99% of the time...?

Reaper1

07-02-2014, 10:07 PM

My Z had the reluctor wheel come loose similar to what you describe, so effectively I had a similar problem, but to a lessor extent because my rotor didn't come loose. I had always wondered why my timing at idle bounced all over the place. Did your timing park move all over when you checked the timing?

Ondonti

07-02-2014, 10:24 PM

Im going to go with 99% of the time...?

My Z had the reluctor wheel come loose similar to what you describe, so effectively I had a similar problem, but to a lessor extent because my rotor didn't come loose. I had always wondered why my timing at idle bounced all over the place. Did your timing park move all over when you checked the timing?

Yes, when setting the timing it bounced all over the place even with the accesory belts off and coolant temp sensor unplugged (oem electronics).

The rotor has been wiggly like that forever. This distributor was OEM for my 1994 silver 3.0 Spirit, then it went into my Duster when I put a junkyard engine into the Spirit. Now those two cars have switched distributors when I stole the good cylinder heads from the Duster and the wiggly one is back into the He341 Spirit. I find it odd that the screw never came more loose. Thinking back to the first mods I ever did to any car in my life, when I did the basic ignition components replacement, the rotor was like this in 2002. Dang.

Shadow24

07-03-2014, 02:35 PM

It's not too surprising to me. I had to replace the dizzy in my 12v after it got so loose the car wouldn't run at all. My mechanic said it was a known issue (at least to him, maybe Chrylser?) with those motors. Had to get a used distributor that was in better shape. If there is a way to go with a toothed wheel, I'd suggest that. A little harder to get slop in the system and all.

Reaper1

07-03-2014, 04:01 PM

Huh...I've not heard of this issue being "common" with the 3.0 until this. Not to say it wasn't there, just not mentioned. I'll say this, I never sold a single distributor for a 12V 3.0 while working for Auto Zone, over the counter or commercial.

Ondonti

07-03-2014, 10:16 PM

I don't think its a problem, the only problem I have heard of is the hiccup at 3000 rpms for which I don't actually know the cause. Might just be the ecu. Especially since it only happens at part throttle. Could be loss of sync caused by interference or a million other things.

This was an easy fix. The annoying thing is that I remembered I have a tiny Nick Boers underdrive pulley installed so I didn't reset the timing and not sure if I feel like doing the timing now since I also have the a/c belt on. Did find that my a/c system is...empty after it was not cold during my last long family drive.

Ondonti

08-21-2014, 11:59 AM

Really happy with the powerband. Cams will make a bunch more power but it proves my opinion that a big turbo moves the powerband to the right. More power at 6200 rpms than 4500. That means even at 6200 rpms the motor drops out of peak power by a LOT.. 3.50 final drive a543, 240hp at 6200 rpms and when shifting to 2nd gear you drop to 3900 rpms and only 195whp. Crazy! Mindblowing! The stock rev limiter is holding back turbo 3.0s even on stock cams! 2nd to 3rd gear drops from 240whp @ 6200 rpms to 225hp @ 4300 rpms!!!!

Pushed coolant on the 3rd 13ish psi run so we (with Reaper1) backed it back down to 10psi. It was probably starting to knock at 12psi.

Stock 3.0 motor, 92 octane. Stock n/a timing map. With timing control there is probably a lot more room to go and the same with alky injection on stock timing. Probably more to gain with modified timing maps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_pGyRgdCNo&feature=youtu.be

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image12.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image12.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image13.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image13.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image14.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/Holset/Image14.jpg.html)

Vigo

08-22-2014, 03:29 PM

Good stuff.

I am kind of surprised the torque numbers are not bigger early on. But that is basically a good thing because crazy peak torque at lowish rpms means you have to start tuning around detonation before you even make good higher rpm power.

It is funny thinking about my old Aries dyno which was with 2" exh and probably over-advanced cam timing due to cam/gear mashup. At ~3700 rpm it was making ~210/320, only slightly above where your motor is at the same rpm, but then it tanked whereas yours basically continues making the same torque for another 1500 rpm before really dropping and ends up making 70 more whp because of it.

Having the big torque is fun but there is a reason why 8v engines with stock top ends struggle to dyno past 240whp while a stock 3.0 with NA TIMING on NA PISTONS does significantly more before you even have to adjust timing, let alone actually 'upgrade' anything.

It almost seems like with just a couple of offset cam keys and a hacked oem cal you could be shifting at 7k and making something close to 400hp with no real hard parts changes. Makes you wonder at what point cams become 'a good idea'.

Sundance 6g72

08-24-2014, 08:44 PM

boostedsohc

08-27-2014, 11:08 AM

With to ability to get any regrind cam profile from Crower you should be able to get a set of cams for around 200-400 bucks.

Ondonti

08-27-2014, 12:07 PM

My cams forced me to go from 15-16psi down to 8-10 (while maintaining the same duty cycle, injectors MAXED). I could shift at 7000rpm but I dont think my little turbo likes it. I had the 3.3 valve springs and just the cams.

I think the cams are a good idea if you can afford it but only if you are running a tunable ecu (ms and such). Other mods are tempting because they tend to cost a lot less.

With to ability to get any regrind cam profile from Crower you should be able to get a set of cams for around 200-400 bucks.

Joe is including the fact that you need more tunability in the overall price tag of making cams really kick butt. Chrysler electronics provide zero high rpm fun.

Force Fed Mopar

08-28-2014, 09:24 AM

Joe is including the fact that you need more tunability in the overall price tag of making cams really kick butt. Chrysler electronics provide zero high rpm fun.

Unless we can get the code cracked and use Turbonator/MP Tuner to modify it...

RoadWarrior222

08-28-2014, 11:39 AM

Ford electronics from an SHO Taurus could be fun to try, but I doubt they are gettable this side of spendy nowadays.

Sundance 6g72

09-01-2014, 04:59 PM

Crower seems to have dropped in quality so thats not who I went with. My cams were $350 if I remember correctly. Im willing to pay more to get it done right.

No one seems to care enough to work on the 3.0 ecu. I personally could care less because MS is just that much better.

Ondonti

09-02-2014, 07:05 PM

Ondonti

09-05-2014, 11:05 PM

Took apart the engine harness and changed the coil wire to feed off the larger 14 guage EGR sensor wire. Now that EGR sensor wire on the engine bay harness side is tapped into my fuel pump relay hotwire setup.

Will see if that prevents the ASD circuit from blowing. I wanted to do this since it is going to make the coil charge faster since it should be at higher voltage instead of being part of a giant circuit to everything fed by one tiny wire.
Also happy to stop driving wife's 3.0.

That was in June....

Problem reared its head again. Drove for a few minutes home from work and lost two 30 amp fuses in about a mile. Bypassed the fuse to get home and no wires were warm.

Going to go through the diagram and remove something from the circuit. Something is spiking the circuit and popping the fuse VERY randomly. Car has been sitting a few days because I have been moving stuff and cars (Duster, Starlet) to my new to me house.

RoadWarrior222

09-06-2014, 10:45 AM

I'm forgetting, does fuel pump current run through ASD?

GLHNSLHT2

09-06-2014, 11:45 AM

yes it does. Friends Lancer shelby he just bought was constantly running the fuel pump when the key was on. The hacks that owned it had jumpered the poles in the ASD relay plug with some wire. Wierd part was that the car operated fine until a week or so later where it wouldn't shut off when you turned the key off. A new ASD relay solved it all.

Ondonti

09-06-2014, 05:07 PM

The ASD relay powers the red/white wire splices to green/orange and that goes to the engine harness and then splices to power the fuel injectors, coil, and the alternator control.
The red/white powers the fuel pump, oxygen sensor, electronic engine controller, also powers electronic transmission controllers on the passenger side of the engine bay. The oxygen sensor and fuel pump don't get power until the fuel pump relay is grounded.
I don't like how Chrysler did their auto shutdown relay. Seems like they want the car to shut down if one tiny problem happens and then make it nearly impossible to figure out which item is failing.

I'm forgetting, does fuel pump current run through ASD?

yes it does. Friends Lancer shelby he just bought was constantly running the fuel pump when the key was on. The hacks that owned it had jumpered the poles in the ASD relay plug with some wire. Wierd part was that the car operated fine until a week or so later where it wouldn't shut off when you turned the key off. A new ASD relay solved it all.

Ondonti

09-10-2014, 01:00 AM

Drove the car once to work but figured out the car was....off....It seems the wideband was reset when I had the alternator feed wire touch something without being unplugged. Radio was reset. I realized the MTX-L output settings are probably wrong after doing a recal thinking calibration was the problem. I need narrowband output for the stock ECU. Innovate MTX-L wideband defaults to wideband output which is the opposite range of narrowband and 0-5 instead of 0-1. So the ECU will do the opposite of what it should when it gets into closed loop and tries to bounce around 14.7 AFR. It just goes crazy lean most of the time unless you get it into closed loop mode (more throttle).

My serial to USB connector is at another location right now. Pretty grumpy that I can't fix my car over a digital setting and I don't plan on driving half an hour each way to pick up my connector :P I was trying to figure out if it would be better to just buy another one so I have a cord inside the car instead of the worthless serial connector end.

Reaper1

09-10-2014, 02:33 PM

I've got my serial/USB connector at my house. Dunno if that would do you any good though. I could meet up with you or something if you like.

Ondonti

10-30-2014, 10:43 AM

After on and off driving the car to work, sometimes it being decent at cruise/idle and with throttle response...others no throttle response and crazy lean or rarely rich.

Figured that the BEGI "combo" rising rate fuel regulator was needing a rebuild even if that was not the real problem. Took it apart. It has a lower section in charge of base pressure and throttle response (the standard regulator side) that has a piston and spring. The piston appears to have been seizing because all the lubrication inside is a hard powder. Chaffing/corrosion marks on the cylinder and the piston. I polished it out and I am going to moly lube it and put it back together without replacing anything.

Long term, I might need to buy the rebuild kit (60 bucks and the base regulator piston doesn't seem to match my 1st generation combo RRR) or at least some gaskets and a ghetto fix.

Seems to make total sense why the car was totally unpredictable. Once that piston gets stuck, fuel pressure will be wrong depending on engine demands. Instead of settling where it should, its gonna get stuck slightly above or below proper pressure since the vacuum pressure that moves it will not have much force to overcome friction of seizing parts to get all the way to where it should adjust to. Quick throttle response could be no throttle response.

Corky Bell told me I should try to rebuild it every 10,000 miles and its got about 8 years on it since it was serviced (had a failed gasket/diaphragm). I don't know why the lube dried out and turned into a hard crust, maybe fuel leak at that gasket or just too much time passage with constant gasoline vapors getting into that chamber? The upper boost chamber piston lube was very happy but I have re serviced the upper section more recently (3 years ago) and used moly engine assembly lube. I did serious work to the regulator in 2009 to allow extreme amounts of fuel to bypass from twin fuel pumps AND have low fuel pressure on my Duster and I replaced zero internals back then.

Here is the album previously posted for this thread when I last went through the regulator. It still looks like what it did when I reworked the upper chamber. Moly lube still looks happy.
http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/library/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator

Here are the new pictures. Grey chunky lube sitting on the table. Took two pictures to show some of the modifications to the original flowpath. The original passages are much smaller and have 90 degree angles. I got away with making both valve seats very thin.

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3995.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3995.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3998.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3998.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3999.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY3999.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4000.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4000.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4001.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4001.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4003.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4003.jpg.html)
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4004.jpg (http://s546.photobucket.com/user/ondonti/media/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4004.jpg.html)

c2xejk

10-30-2014, 11:45 AM

Since you are running Megasquirt on this, could you run just an AFPR? Possibly set for just one pressure?

Spiritman

10-30-2014, 10:41 PM

No megasquirt on this one. thats off the daily driven spirit with a stock ecu.

Ondonti

10-31-2014, 11:53 AM

Since you are running Megasquirt on this, could you run just an AFPR? Possibly set for just one pressure?

No megasquirt on this one. thats off the daily driven spirit with a stock ecu.

Yup, this car is very basic. Spiritman texted me saying an in cab pressure guage would be great to have. Probably a bigger deal since the combo Rising Rate Regulator has to take such complex command of fuel pressure.

In a ghetto way I do think I could see myself swapping this modified regulator to my Duster and cheating on injectors again even with Megasquirt. Doesn't make sense to buy another one of these regulators when they cost over 300 dollars and megasquirt is comparatively affordable for its capabilities.
-------------

The pictures above are after most of the damage was removed. I didn't try to take away any material, just scotchbrite by hand and then a light dremel polish. Still plenty of the deeper seizure marks remain. Moly lubed and reassembled. Piston now slides with no resistance except the spring.

Vigo

10-31-2014, 03:37 PM

My opinion on the importance of gauges is: 1. Wideband, 2. In-cab fuel pressure, 3. EGT

RRR's are crazy money considering you can get programmable piggybacks or even standalones for VERY little more.

But, if you know how to set it up and stay on top of it they are a lot easier to install! Still seems crazy you can double the WHP on a 3.0 with nothing but a RRR for 'tuning'.

RoadWarrior222

10-31-2014, 04:03 PM

Whoa, RRRs are dying out, I swear there were more around cheaper a few years ago, now they seem to be getting more specialist again.

c2xejk

11-03-2014, 01:09 PM

If you search 'FMU' on ebay you can find a bunch for around $100.

Ondonti

11-06-2014, 03:23 PM

BTW, I drove the car to work and it was still being a bit weird. Tried to check the two fuel pressure settings and when I pulled the lower vacuum line where the 'dried out' chamber + piston is and gasoline started dripping out. This makes me feel bad for cylinder #2 which is where the fuel vacuum port is connected to.

I ordered some extra gaskets and shims from BEGI. I am just going to drill a hole through a 3" gasket they sell and use it as a diaphragm. Their full rebuild kits do not match my early production model so I would have had to ask Corky about what was needed or just send it in. The MR kits have a new piston so I could swap my old one in but the kit is 60 bucks and I spent 1/3 that for new small gaskets, 1 large gasket, 1 set of shims. I would feel like a chump talking to him over what is mostly my aversion to spending money. Previous talks were about the oddness of my early production MR2035. I also figured out later that I was setting point of onset incorrectly for a long period of time.

The last time my RRR failed I took a picture of my vacuum hand pump air line full of fuel out of the ports on the regulator.

I ordered multiple small gaskets since the lower unit seems to be what dies more often and I am impatient. Ready for rererebuild.

RRR's are a weird use of money if you go name brand but they can make more power on the same injector :D
BEGI also has modernized their RRR fleet to supposedly have superior "point of onset" that seeks to better mirror engine fueling demands.

Vigo

11-06-2014, 05:02 PM

Last time i looked all the cheap RRRs either didnt have adjustable base pressure, didnt have adjustable rate of gain, or both. I dont consider them that useful without those traits. I did pick up a 'non adjustable' (at least without swapping internals) unit off CL for ~$40 but the intent was always to modify it to make it actually useful.

Ondonti

11-10-2014, 04:53 PM

Got the replacement gaskets and shims. Only installed a small gasket. The moly lube was contaminated with gasoline. Took a hole punch to the center, looked cleaner than the hole they made on theirs. For me this is a $3 dollar plus shipping rebuild (but I bought extra parts for the future) instead of the $60+ custom. The upper gasket gets a lot less wear since it only activates near atmospheric pressure. The lower is constantly getting taxed as vacuum changes during normal driving.

With it all back together, no longer leaking internally, I found my base pressure is about 32-33 psi. My "point of onset" pressure was only about 37 psi. That would be why it leaned out so bad (19:1 AFR's etc) and lost power near zero vacuum. I turned it up to a bout 42psi and I was getting 16:1 AFR near zero vacuum with no breakup but also no power. 50psi and I was getting high 13:1 AFR to low 14:1. At that point power in the boost transition zone really picked up. Goes to 12 and 11 as it gets into boost but I didn't press farther. Bumped it to 53psi point of onset and didn't test again. I seem to remember originally setting the unit a few years ago to 48psi point of onset. I don't know why its was so low. Maybe that is an indicator that the upper diaphragm stretched out or who knows.

Anyone have an idea what that gasket material is? Easy to get .003" stainless steel shim (heard of people using thicker) and with gasket material, I could change this stuff more often and not feel like I am spending a lot of money on it.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/Turbo%203L%20Spirit/BEGI%202035%20Rising%20Rate%20Fuel%20Pressure%20Re gulator/SANY4006.jpg