5 bolt crank gear, SQUARE TOOTH!!!!!

[minigts]

I know this may be a long shot, but supposedly there is a square tooth 5 bolt crank gear out there, so I'm told. If anyone has this or if they are in abundance, please find it in your heart to sell me one of these, please. :D

[shackwrrr]

whats wrong with round tooth?

[turbovanman²]

Good luck, its a Dodge reman messed up cross over year part, :confused:




whats wrong with round tooth?

It's not square tooth!

[cordes]

Would it have come on tall deck motors? I may have one lying around if they did.

[minigts]

whats wrong with round tooth?

... lol Because I need a square tooth!? To answer your question, I have a square tooth setup and an adjustable square tooth cam gear and would prefer to find a square tooth crank gear if it's possible. I'm trying to avoid having to swap ALL the gears out and loose the adjustable gear I only bought less than one year ago. Not to mention I'd have to get another timing belt, again, new one on the car now.




Good luck, its a Dodge reman messed up cross over year part, :confused:


It's not square tooth!

lol exactly!




Would it have come on tall deck motors? I may have one lying around if they did.

Thanks Brian. If I can't find one anywhere I WILL go round tooth, but trying to avoid this.

[boost geek]

I had one that i sold to a forum member quite a while ago. It came on an '88 non c.b. 2.2

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1149.jpg

[minigts]

I had one that i sold to a forum member quite a while ago. It came on an '88 non c.b. 2.2

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1149.jpg

Yeah I'm gonna need you to come up with another one. :) Well glad to see it's not a myth! Thanks for the pics, just what I would need if anyone has this. :D

[cordes]

Why not just run a different accessory pulley?

[shackwrrr]

ahh, Ic an adjustable cam gear is enough of a reason.

[minigts]

Why not just run a different accessory pulley?

Because I'm going to run a serpentine system and I need the 5 bolt crank pulley from the T3 that has the width for the serpentine belt. Unless they make a 4 bolt version of this that will facilitate the width of the belt, my only options are for a square tooth crank gear to bolt the TIII pulley onto or go to the round tooth setup. That is how I see it, although there may be an alternative I haven't figured out.

[glhs0426]

It came on an '88 non c.b. 2.2

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1149.jpg

See, told ya:) I'm going to a parts stash tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed. Two 88 GTC's have been parted in the barn.

[shadow88]

My shadow's factory engine had one (88 t1) as did it's last engine from a daytona (88 t2), but now I'm common block. Had I known those were rare, I would have kept them, sorry. That might help your search.

[minigts]

See, told ya:) I'm going to a parts stash tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed. Two 88 GTC's have been parted in the barn.

LOL Well let me know what you find man!!! Thanks!




My shadow's factory engine had one (88 t1) as did it's last engine from a daytona (88 t2), but now I'm common block. Had I known those were rare, I would have kept them, sorry. That might help your search.

You can take your sorries and shove 'em in a sack! ;)

[shadow88]

Alright then. I got a whole sack full for ya! Hahahaha

[minigts]

Alright then. I got a whole sack full for ya! Hahahaha

LOL Man when we meeting up again? You're going to make it to SDAC this year, right? Not THAT far from Canada!

[shadow88]

Yes, I plan on attending Chicago this year. Can't help ya with the crank sprocket though.

[TopDollar69]

Every 88 2.2L has one. Strangly the 88 2.5L has a round tooth crank gear.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1 5-bolt square tooth is an 88 2.2L thing... which IIR the length of the sprocket is longer than the 87 4-bolt sprocket

[4 l-bodies]

29251Here is a pic of what you are looking for, and others to compare it to.
Todd

[4 l-bodies]

+1 5-bolt square tooth is an 88 2.2L thing... which IIR the length of the sprocket is longer than the 87 4-bolt sprocket
And a lot heavier too!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL yeah, about twice the mass!

Hey Todd, great pic/info! Check it out, I figured out how to turn posts into Tech Articles! :)

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/content.php?281-Re-5-bolt-crank-gear-SQUARE-TOOTH!!!!!

[GLHNSLHT2]

29251Here is a pic of what you are looking for, and others to compare it to.
Todd


Todd, I'm not following the snout measurements. Is that their diameters? Looks like I'm going back to the yard and seeing if I can grab the crank pulley off that 88 Turbo1 K car with the impossible to find 88 kcar smec harness. No I'm not pulling it in the snow for anyone.

[shmedley]

I know I have one in the garage if nobody else can come up with one easily

[supercrackerbox]

My curiosity is piqued. With the different length, won't that push the pulley out too far for everything to line up? Can you have it machined down to the length of the common block one, since you'll be using common block accessories?

Oh, and I do have one, but it's on the motor in my GLHS. Sorry, off limits.

[BadAssPerformance]

Pretty sure the 4-bolt and 5-bolt crank accesory pulleys are different offset to take up the different timing sprocket lengths. I just looked for pics but couldnt find them.

[Juggy]

Good luck, its a Dodge reman messed up cross over year part, :confused:





It's not square tooth!

hey get those damn aluminum I sprockets going, and while your at it, have a 89 CB crank sprocket made up too in AL :hail:

[4 l-bodies]

Todd, I'm not following the snout measurements. Is that their diameters? Looks like I'm going back to the yard and seeing if I can grab the crank pulley off that 88 Turbo1 K car with the impossible to find 88 kcar smec harness. No I'm not pulling it in the snow for anyone.
Jay, yes that's just crank snout diameter. So in other words ID of sprocket.

[GLHNSLHT2]

As far as the weight thing, the diameter of the crank pulley is so small in relation to other things even if it's 3 times the weight of the 87 and older sprockets I doubt you'd notice or could measure it.

[supercrackerbox]

Pretty sure the 4-bolt and 5-bolt crank accesory pulleys are different offset to take up the different timing sprocket lengths. I just looked for pics but couldnt find them.

Yes, I know. But since he'll be using a pulley meant for a slightly shorter sprocket, won't he have to match that length to keep all the accessories lined up properly?

[minigts]

Pretty sure the 4-bolt and 5-bolt crank accesory pulleys are different offset to take up the different timing sprocket lengths. I just looked for pics but couldnt find them.

JT, so the 5 bolt gear off the 88 will cause a timing issue vs. the 4 bolt? I don't think you're saying this, but just checking. The length I get, but I'll be using the accessories off a TIII, so the alignment width offset from the wider 5 bolt crank gear will be matched. If I were trying to use the 87 pieces (assuming the belt would even work with the pulleys), I could see the issue. But I will be running the TIII PS pump, TIII alternator and TIII water pump. So as long as I have all those pieces, I should be good right? I shouldn't have a timing issue, correct?

BTW, John Roberts is running this setup on his car right now with no issues, so I know it can be done.

[BadAssPerformance]

Not a timing thing, just a position thing.

The belt pulley has a different offset to make up for the different length of the crank timing sprockets. I couldnt get to stock belt pulleys easily, but here is a pic of both types 4 and 5 bolt in Forward Motion underdrive pulleys for comparisson

You can also see the ID of each pullry is different to match the ddifferent sprocket snout diameters Todd mentioned.

29258

[GLHNSLHT2]

someone didn't clearance the snow gaurd on the CB pulley before firing it up :)

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, hey, 15 years ago we all were did it once ;)

And this tech article wasnt around yet :D

http://www.badassperformance.com/mtech/ud_pulley.html

[4 l-bodies]

As far as the weight thing, the diameter of the crank pulley is so small in relation to other things even if it's 3 times the weight of the 87 and older sprockets I doubt you'd notice or could measure it.
I've often wondered why no one in the TD world ever produced an aluminum version of a crank gear. Pretty common in the 2.3 Ford world. The weight issue could be debated about forever. Steel vs. cast cranks, lightened or aluminum flywheels, iron cam pulleys, etc. each one no big deal but stacking them all together and it could become significant.
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

JT: So the 4 bolts need more clearancing than the 5 bolts? I've only ever installed a 5 bolt and noticed it wasn't sitting flat as soon as I put it up to the crank.

Todd: I guess. But I think there's bigger/better things to worry about being that the weight is centered so close to the centerline of the crank. A flywheel, UDP, and the cam gears offer much larger gains. And with how cheap the TD guys are then it's probably gotta be less than $20 for anyone to buy it :) I'm a rotating weight savings fanatic too and I don't think I'd buy one for more than that.

[BadAssPerformance]

JT: So the 4 bolts need more clearancing than the 5 bolts? I've only ever installed a 5 bolt and noticed it wasn't sitting flat as soon as I put it up to the crank.

Nope the 4 and 5 bolt UD pulleys both need about the same clearancing as the inner v-belt groove is in the same location with respect to the end of the crankshaft

[minigts]

Thanks for the pic JT!!! Hopefully this installation will go smoothly as soon as I find the gear. :) Still will have to pull the gear and mount everything up, but this should come out alright. :)

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------


29251Here is a pic of what you are looking for, and others to compare it to.
Todd

Almost forgot, thanks for posting the pics!! Great to see the differences side by side.

[Reaper1]

I've often wondered why no one in the TD world ever produced an aluminum version of a crank gear. Pretty common in the 2.3 Ford world. The weight issue could be debated about forever. Steel vs. cast cranks, lightened or aluminum flywheels, iron cam pulleys, etc. each one no big deal but stacking them all together and it could become significant.
Todd

I've got a friend with a Ford 2.3 and he was running an aluminum crank gear. It ended up wearing out even though it was anodized. My theory on this is that he no longer runs a dust guard and dirt got in between the belt and the gear and eroded it away.

This is my reasoning for NOT wanting an aluminum crank gear.

[supercrackerbox]

LOL, hey, 15 years ago we all were did it once ;)

And this tech article wasnt around yet :D

http://www.badassperformance.com/mtech/ud_pulley.html

Been there done that. Took me forever to figure out why I couldn't get the engine to crank over.

[glhs0426]

JT, so the 5 bolt gear off the 88 will cause a timing issue vs. the 4 bolt? I don't think you're saying this, but just checking. The length I get, but I'll be using the accessories off a TIII, so the alignment width offset from the wider 5 bolt crank gear will be matched. If I were trying to use the 87 pieces (assuming the belt would even work with the pulleys), I could see the issue. But I will be running the TIII PS pump, TIII alternator and TIII water pump. So as long as I have all those pieces, I should be good right? I shouldn't have a timing issue, correct?

BTW, John Roberts is running this setup on his car right now with no issues, so I know it can be done.

The '88 crank gear pulley attachment face is the same distance off the end of the block as a stock TIII. The TIII is the same distance as other common blocks. I had to open up the center register in the TIII crank pulley to fit over the larger register of the '88 gear.

I saw the gear you need today, but it was attached to the crank still in the car. All this was sitting in standing water from the rains so we couldn't pick it up. If you have the patience Andy and I will be picking this car up to part out sometime around June. LMK

[shadow88]

Here, Jon. Contact 89 aries and see if he has what you want and if he'll pull it for ya. http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?56648-Ported-Polished-FWD-782-Stage-1-Head-2.2-TBI-782-Head-and-Short-Block-2.5-Short-Block

[DaveSkrab]

I have one sitting outside on a junk long block, I can pull it in the next day or two. How's that work for ya?

[minigts]

I have one sitting outside on a junk long block, I can pull it in the next day or two. How's that work for ya?

Thanks Dave, but I got a PM from one of the guys on the board just a bit ago so I'm good. But thanks for posting about it! Hang onto it too!!!! :D

[GLHNSLHT2]

Well I missed the one in the j-yard by about a week. GRRRR So If anyone has either an 88 5 bolt square tooth or a 89 Masi 16v crank pulley they want to sell I'm in the market for one.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

Todd, is your pic missing a gear? What about the 88 round tooth gear on the 2.5 TBI's

[iTurbo]

I have an '89 16v TC crank gear and it doesn't look like the one Todd posted pic of. Perhaps the one he has is a common block version.

[GLHNSLHT2]

yea the MAsi came in an non-CB and a CB version. If I can find a CB version that'd be sweeet, but I'll take any that I can make work, So that would be 88 2.2 or 89 Masi CB or non CB.

[4 l-bodies]

Well I missed the one in the j-yard by about a week. GRRRR So If anyone has either an 88 5 bolt square tooth or a 89 Masi 16v crank pulley they want to sell I'm in the market for one.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

Todd, is your pic missing a gear? What about the 88 round tooth gear on the 2.5 TBI's
Jay, yes the early Masi and 88 TD round tooth is missing in pics. It was never meant to be a complete listing, all I did was shoot a quick pic of some I had laying on shelves in garage. Then JT thought the info was useful & added to it put it in knowledge section.
Todd

---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------


I have an '89 16v TC crank gear and it doesn't look like the one Todd posted pic of. Perhaps the one he has is a common block version.
Jeremy that is correct. Pictured is a C/B 16V Masi.

[minigts]

Just an update, the 5 bolt TIII pulley inner diameter is smaller than that of the out diameter of the 5 bolt square tooth crank gear. Ill take pictures and post later, but just ONE OTHER obstacle to overcome. :( I may have to go round tooth after all. Friggin' frig!

[glhs0426]

Just an update, the 5 bolt TIII pulley inner diameter is smaller than that of the out diameter of the 5 bolt square tooth crank gear. Ill take pictures and post later, but just ONE OTHER obstacle to overcome. :( I may have to go round tooth after all. Friggin' frig!

Die grinder (not your style), step drill (maybe), drill press (sounds like you). BTW I mentioned that little step. Bring me the crank pulley, serpentine pulley, and the a/c bracket. It will all be good a little bit later.

[minigts]

Die grinder (not your style), step drill (maybe), drill press (sounds like you). BTW I mentioned that little step. Bring me the crank pulley, serpentine pulley, and the a/c bracket. It will all be good a little bit later.

D'oh! Well I'm sure I read it, just didn't make sense or mean anything until I tried it for myself. :p I did get the A/C bracket notched for the timing belt and I don't mind using a grinder to enlarge the hole for the crank gear, just wasn't sure if I wanted to do that or not. Guess it wouldn't be too bad to do so. I was going to powder coat the pulley anyways. What would you do with the serpentine pulley? Or is this something else I forgot I need to do? :D

[cordes]

Die grinder (not your style), step drill (maybe), drill press (sounds like you). BTW I mentioned that little step. Bring me the crank pulley, serpentine pulley, and the a/c bracket. It will all be good a little bit later.

Spot on.

[GLHNSLHT2]

The '88 crank gear pulley attachment face is the same distance off the end of the block as a stock TIII. The TIII is the same distance as other common blocks. I had to open up the center register in the TIII crank pulley to fit over the larger register of the '88 gear.




Just an update, the 5 bolt TIII pulley inner diameter is smaller than that of the out diameter of the 5 bolt square tooth crank gear. Ill take pictures and post later, but just ONE OTHER obstacle to overcome. :( I may have to go round tooth after all. Friggin' frig!


D'oh! Well I'm sure I read it, just didn't make sense or mean anything until I tried it for myself. :p I did get the A/C bracket notched for the timing belt and I don't mind using a grinder to enlarge the hole for the crank gear, just wasn't sure if I wanted to do that or not. Guess it wouldn't be too bad to do so. I was going to powder coat the pulley anyways. What would you do with the serpentine pulley? Or is this something else I forgot I need to do? :D

What are you guys doing to get the 88 gear onto the snout of the CB crank? Are you machining out the inner diameter for the 88 gear or machining down the end of the crank? Any measurements? It looks to me like I'm going to have machine out the inside to fit over the CB snout and also hog some out so it clears the snow guard? Then make a press in piece for the front to stop the gear in the correct spot. Was also going to machine down the "register" so that my UDP fits over it.

[minigts]

What are you guys doing to get the 88 gear onto the snout of the CB crank? Are you machining out the inner diameter for the 88 gear or machining down the end of the crank? Any measurements? It looks to me like I'm going to have machine out the inside to fit over the CB snout and also hog some out so it clears the snow guard? Then make a press in piece for the front to stop the gear in the correct spot. Was also going to machine down the "register" so that my UDP fits over it.

John is going to machine the inside of the crank pulley to match it to the snout on the crank gear. The only other thing I'll need to do at that point is just pull the crank gear off and get this stuff installed!

[cordes]

John is going to machine the inside of the crank pulley to match it to the snout on the crank gear. The only other thing I'll need to do at that point is just pull the crank gear off and get this stuff installed!

Let us know where you get your pulley remover. Those darn things are expensive last I looked.

[minigts]

Let us know where you get your pulley remover. Those darn things are expensive last I looked.

Well I'm going to see if I can finagle him to let me borrow one from him. :) I tried with the harmonic balancer puller I have, but it didn't work out too well. It didn't seem to budge it any. :$

[GLHNSLHT2]

I made one. Piece of steel, 5 holes around the outside (could use 3). Big hole in the middle with a 1/2-20 nut welded in so I could use my steering wheel puller bolt and voila.

[BadAssPerformance]

+1 I made one too.. errr, the CNC guy at work made it ;)

I'd loan it to ya if you were closer man... or if you want me to ship it?

[GLHNSLHT2]

John is going to machine the inside of the crank pulley to match it to the snout on the crank gear. The only other thing I'll need to do at that point is just pull the crank gear off and get this stuff installed!

I'd like to see it after it's machined. And love to have any measurements he's willing to offer up. I think I have it figured out but would like to see if I'm on the same page.

[minigts]

+1 I made one too.. errr, the CNC guy at work made it ;)

I'd loan it to ya if you were closer man... or if you want me to ship it?

JT! I think John has one he said I could use a while back, but I appreciate the offer. It shouldn't take too long to pull the old one off and put the new one on.



I'd like to see it after it's machined. And love to have any measurements he's willing to offer up. I think I have it figured out but would like to see if I'm on the same page.

Well I say machined, but it will be made to fit with high speed tools. I'm taking it to his shop tomorrow, but I'll post pictures when it's done.

[BadAssPerformance]

Cool, LMK

[minigts]

Well what a glorious day! I made a special trip to visit John and drop my stuff off so he could modify the A/C bracket and machine out the center of the pulley.....but I forgot the pulley!!!! AAAAGGGGHHH!!! He did however lend me the crank gear removal tool so that's good. I'll have an actual REAL update with some substance this weekend. And I think I'm going to do a small write up about this procedure as the overall process seems relatively easy as long as you have the parts.

[GLHNSLHT2]

A writeup would be awesome.

[glhs0426]

Jon, bring your camera with you tomorrow. I'll bring an unmodified a/c bracket to shoot pictures for your writeup. Your a/c bracket is missing a too much aluminum to tell what was done.

[minigts]

Jon, bring your camera with you tomorrow. I'll bring an unmodified a/c bracket to shoot pictures for your writeup. Your a/c bracket is missing a too much aluminum to tell what was done.

Will do! Just hope I remember the pulley this time. ;)

[GLHNSLHT2]

any updates?

I've been working on mine, just need to finish the aluminum piece that presses into the gear and holds the belt pulley on.

[4 l-bodies]

any updates?

I've been working on mine, just need to finish the aluminum piece that presses into the gear and holds the belt pulley on.
Aluminum? For weight savings? HA. Saw your pics Jay. Looks good. BTW that's what those 5 bolts are for. Hehe. Just fabbing something up to locate the pulley? It looks like that outer ring on the masi pulley is just pressed on. Is that your take on it?
Todd

[GLHNSLHT2]

hehe, the weight savings are just a side benefit. Yea the outer ring does look just pressed on. It also dictates how far the gear is pressed onto the crank snout. The gear only touches the crank on it's i.d. and that steel outer piece is the stop. So that's what I did, it's only pressed in .047" on both the stock and mine. My ring is made from aluminum because it's easier to machine than steel :) I should be finished with it monday so I'll post some pics and weights then.

[minigts]

any updates?

I've been working on mine, just need to finish the aluminum piece that presses into the gear and holds the belt pulley on.

Well for me it's pretty much dead in the water. For the L-bodies, the PS bracket fits, but the tensioner pulley ALMOST it's the frame and the pump for sure will hit it, or at least they pump pulley will. I'll post some pics later, but the clearance was just amazingly close for the tensioner. The sad thing is, I had that car torn down and putting everything back on before I realized it wouldn't fit. I needed to get the car back together for the next day, so I didn't pursue it anymore, but I don't see it happening on an L-body without some tricky moves for the PS bracket and pump.

On the bright side, I did get the crank seal replaced, that was good and I found out the stupid PS pressure hose was loose, so got that tightened. I also replaced the PS fluid, as it looked like brownie batter, it was so bad. If you get anything done on this or find a solution to the PS pump location, I'm all ears and would love to see a mock up out of the car. I just didn't have the capacity to do so before attempting. :(

[cordes]

Really sorry to hear that Jon. I know you've been wanting to do that for a while now. At least I can cite you as the guy who figured out it wouldn't work in it's original configuration.

[GLHNSLHT2]

sorry Jon, would love to see some pics so I can get more a visual of what you're describing.

I got mine finished today. I weighed it but forgot the # and it's written down at work. I'll post it tomorrow. It's close to half the weight.
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/v/Members+Rides/Jay+Jochec/87+Daytona+ShelbyZ/Two+Five+Masi/