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vipernbox
02-24-2011, 12:47 PM
So...


Anyway.... With all this junk laying around...




I had ought to be able to make something happen


Right????




2921229214http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png29215

GLHNSLHT2
02-24-2011, 07:49 PM
wanna sell the a/c setup? :)

vipernbox
02-24-2011, 07:59 PM
wanna sell the a/c setup? :)


Maybe... depending on how this all turns out.. After October it might get hooked up...

vipernbox
03-01-2011, 06:13 PM
29336


And so the cutting begins.. :thumb:

rx2mazda
03-01-2011, 06:32 PM
This should be a fun project! I do miss my RWD.

Turbo224
03-01-2011, 07:11 PM
Subscribed!

Shadow
03-02-2011, 05:20 PM
Was gonna do this 10+ years ago! Although, not with the Massi mtr! Was gonna make a rear engine S/C with TII P/T. Then, when it was completly set-up I was going to drop the other TII P/T back in the front. AWD, twin P/T 800WHP BABY!

Of course I'll never get around to doing it now, so next best thing is seeing others do it!

GOOD LUCK! Look forward to seeing it come together!

shadow88
03-02-2011, 05:42 PM
Was gonna do this 10+ years ago! Although, not with the Massi mtr! Was gonna make a rear engine S/C with TII P/T. Then, when it was completly set-up I was going to drop the other TII P/T back in the front. AWD, twin P/T 800WHP BABY!

Of course I'll never get around to doing it now, so next best thing is seeing others do it!


GOOD LUCK! Look forward to seeing it come together!

This is something I'm still thinking of doing with my shadow. Did you get to any drawings or sketches?

roachjuice
03-02-2011, 07:54 PM
that engine wont work. you need to sell it to me for 100 dollars and ill be there tomorrow to pick it up. :D

Bardo
03-02-2011, 08:39 PM
This is either be cool or cool to watch fail either way glwtb:thumb:

Shadow
03-03-2011, 12:10 AM
This is something I'm still thinking of doing with my shadow. Did you get to any drawings or sketches?

Prob a couple kicking around here. The twin turbo project has a couple files full of drawings and ideas I had. Actually made changes as Gary was proving stuff out back in the day.

Deff along the same lines as what vipernbox is doing. (or at least I think he's doing) Welding the entire E/C frame and mounting locations to the rear of the car and then bolt everything in and go!

vipernbox
03-03-2011, 01:12 AM
Well.. If I was starting this one again from right now I would trim back more steel right from the start.. I have been just nibbling at it trying to leave as much as possible...


But anyway...


Front to back it is set pretty close to where it needs to be.. Still needs to come up a bit... but I cut just a fraction to wide (on purpose) at the strut towers and that is all that is holding it now from fitting right on in there... At the moment it is trimmed just to the edge of where the outer frame rail laps the strut tower in the daytona... and the Charger basically just got the wheel wells removed and the extra lip hammer flat for now... Cut like that... the whole thing is maybe 3/16" to wide to just slip right into place.... The Charger has a very nice flat and square area to work with right there... Ya gota love that..


Right now the plan is to weld it in place just like it would sit in the front of a daytona... I am thinking I could tilt it a tiny bit to get some anti squat geometry going on????? Really even at this point I am a long way from whipping out the welder...

Oh.. and the frame rails for the bumper supports on a daytona... They slip exactly b/t the frame at the suspension mounting points on the Charger... Boxing that together is going to be a breeze...

29360293612936229363

Turbo224
03-03-2011, 11:58 AM
All I know is that i'm going to be very disappointed if this turns into another one of those projects that never gets finished. Keep up the good work!!

vipernbox
03-03-2011, 12:06 PM
A couple higher resolution shots... ( I have lots of them.. the ones from my phone load up easier so I will post them more often.. If you want to see anything specific just let me know.. I keep the Nikon busy :) )


and whada ya think of these wheels... :)


293652936629367



Once it is all the way in place the inner fender/quarter should line up darn near perfect. :love:

Shadow
03-03-2011, 12:19 PM
OK nice! I was going to say something about the pic quality, but I was thinking something is better than nothing. Much better now ;)

shadow88
03-05-2011, 04:35 PM
Prob a couple kicking around here. The twin turbo project has a couple files full of drawings and ideas I had. Actually made changes as Gary was proving stuff out back in the day.

Deff along the same lines as what vipernbox is doing. (or at least I think he's doing) Welding the entire E/C frame and mounting locations to the rear of the car and then bolt everything in and go!

Could you send them along to shadowman1518@hotmail.com please? My thoughts were to do a completely different rear subframe based on the k-frame and installed from underneath.

vipernbox
03-05-2011, 05:09 PM
I seriously considered that. But you will still have to alter/move the frame rails to make room for the transmission then mirror that on the engine side. So you don't get to keep the factory rear frame rails anyway. Then build strut towers. Motor mounts Ect ect ect.

I really considered it. Just hanging the k frame would be a breeze. But all the rest of the stuff adds up, and there is already enough stuff to fabricate for me to want to worry about fabricating stuff to mount stock stuff in the stock location.

I could see doing it if you were going to build custom suspension. But short of that I couldn't make any sense of it


Heck even with the 'stock' stuff I am leaving everything open to where I could possibly use the old L body rear suspension mount to fabricate kinda a 'modified mcpherson strut setup like the MR2 or the Boxster use. :). This won't happen tomorrow but what the heck right?

BadAssPerformance
03-05-2011, 06:18 PM
All I know is that i'm going to be very disappointed if this turns into another one of those projects that never gets finished. Keep up the good work!!

Ditto.. a few of those out there.

NEAT PROJECT!

Subscribed :nod:

vipernbox
03-10-2011, 12:44 AM
Ok... So hang some pedals and and mount the seat... Then this project is all wrapped up... :)


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2MTctMjAxMTAzMDktMjEwNi5qcGc.jpg






:)



Naw...



But I do have a couple questions.. I think I am going to install this thing just off level.. Giving myself just a tiny bit of anti-squat geometry... the caster if it needs addressed for any weird reason can be fixed with plates later...

But anyway... Trying to set the height and wheel base... Set like it is in the picture below at full drop I have about four inches to the wheel well from the top of a 205/50... The daytona struts have about 6 inches of travel.. ... The front to back location I think is just behind where the wheel would sit in its standard setup... (forgot to measure that one.) It would allow a 26 inch tall tire to fit pretty easy if there ever was a need for that...

Tomorrow I will pull a daytona in the shop and make sure the 'natural' position is centered in the strut travel...


So whada ya'll think? And could someone measure the gap b/t the tire and the quarter on a SC that is at stock ride height for me... (of all the silly things to forget to measure.)


It is a lot of fun to "lower" a car like this... :)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2MjAtMjAxMTAzMDktMjIyMi5qcGc.jpg

Shadow
03-10-2011, 12:53 AM
Man I saw that first pic and post and was really hoping you were going to mount the seat on the bumper and drive it down the track from the rear! :lol:

vipernbox
03-14-2011, 02:52 PM
All tacked in place :)


but still having the ride height debate.. So....

Right now the top of a 205/60 15 (about the same height as the wider tire I will be running) will sit about a half inch short of flush with the wheel opening (which is getting changed, widebody? :) ) Sitting at half the strut travel where all the daytona's I have here at the house sit..


hellaflush yo dawgz.. :focus:


The question is whether to sacrifice a little suspension droop by raising the engine subframe into the body allowing me just a tad higher real roll center.... and a very wee bit of extra (albeit minimal) camber gain.. I should be a bit lighter than the front of a daytona meaning this should be where the stock spring settles.. and "normal" height may require a snip

(coilovers are for later)




So anyway... If I still like what I did last night when I go out there tonight and quadruple check everything.. It should be a rolling chassis late tonight. :nod:

vipernbox
03-16-2011, 12:59 AM
:banghead:

Alright... So untacking it again... everything was set right where I thought I wanted it.. :) but instead I am going to go up just a fraction more giving up some suspension droop in favor of a slightly higher roll center... This should balance nicely with a only slightly overlowered front setup....

And ... Still debating how much anti squat to try and dial in by rotating the subframe vs moving only the K frame mounting points.. There was more "anti-dive type geometry built into the front suspension than I first thought...


So... Still measuring... I have to get this part right... and there are so many things to take into consideration... and it isn't something I do everyday... So i just decided I am in no hurry on this part... Probably splitting hairs for nothing at this point... but... yeah..

Plenty of time tomorrow to tinker with it though.. No worries...

vipernbox
03-16-2011, 11:33 PM
Alright still stuck on the geometry problem..

and have a couple questions.. Asking them here.. (Or maybe just talking aloud hoping it clicks... )


http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?57217-Revised-suspension-geometry-anti-lift-dive-discussion/page2&highlight=




I did make it to the yard today and pick up the Van hubs.. SO we have 11 inch brakes and a little better roll center all around if nothing else.. :) oh.. and 5 on 4.5" :thumb: (Thanks again Larry)

vipernbox
03-20-2011, 10:18 PM
Alright.. The limited progress on the suspension geometry.. Explanations in the linked thread above... and a couple more pictures of some other progress...



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/008.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/045.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/016.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/040.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/003.jpg




The Old Charger rear frame getting recycled...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/010.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/011.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/013.jpg

Pat
03-20-2011, 10:27 PM
Very nice...progress is good!

vipernbox
03-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Help me answer one of the big questions right now :) Box Flares... WIDEBODY!!!!! Or simply cut the fender flares from a four door omni and do a little stretching.. :) (something along these lines http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?2,19586 )


I am going to have to deal with the wheelhouse soon enough.... might as well get to cutting huh? :nod::nod:

66auto-xcharger
03-22-2011, 02:24 AM
I have been reading of your progress with the mid engine Charger Very Nice. :hail:



Now back in the Day when the Charger was new, I had some lengthy conversation about doing a Mid Engine GLH but. It was deemed out of our reach, Cost wise$$$. :( I know you have a lot on your mined at this time but have some Question. :confused2:
What are you planning on running for a Parking brake?
What are you planning on for a exhaust System?
What Trans are you planning on using 5 speed Or Auto?
What type of Linkage mechanical rod or mechanical cable or Hydraulic?
Keep the INFO coming. Your project has started me thinking about A Mid Engine GLH. :eyebrows:
Just my bad luck. I only have a Running 85 GLHT Project and a Daytona 89 C/S AGS running Parts Car, Just sitting around taking up space.

David H.
Lost in Akron Oh.

vipernbox
03-22-2011, 11:13 AM
The parking brake will be either a line lock.. or something along those lines....

Check out what this guy did for that.. (he has a table of contents in his first post.. but this should take to to the P brake stuff... )

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/19-projects-diy-article-talk/66688-94-gsr-mid-engine-rwd-h22a4-conversion-44.html#1385909

I probably won't get that advanced with my setup... but who knows.. Still thinking on that one...


For the Exhaust... :evil: What exhaust??? It is going to be right there at the back of the car... Building a one off header and as short of a system as possible...




I am planning on running a 5 speed... But an auto would be stupid simple... Just be stuck with a reverse pattern and the deal is done... I have yet to decide if I am using a 555 or a 568 and that will make a difference for how the linkage is done.. But I plan on running stock cables back to the trans area... Reversing on direction is as simple as flipping the selector arm over and fabing up a way to mount the cable... the other plane may require a bell crank set up of some kind...... I dunno.. I have lots of ideas on that one also.. But that should be simple enough... For the Clutch... I have been studying Larry B's setup pretty close... and I have not made the decision about a cable or hydraulic yet... Thinking hydraulic at this point.. but if a cable goes in easy enough I may try that for a while...




Cost wise... because of some dumb luck and some great deals..... I am actually ahead at this point :) It depends on what I end up bolting to it to make it go... but yeah.. :) except for the time.. I have given the wife little to complain about... and she doesn't get to worked up about that because I have a great helper...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NjMtMjAxMTAzMTktMTk1MC5qcGc.jpg

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

Oh... and about flaring the quarter to cover the extra wide tires and slightly (2 inches) wider track of the Daytona suspension setup...


I think I am going to do both... meaning I am going use the omni fender lip on a box flare built from an omni front fender... :) Still up in the air at this point.. but I really think I cam make that work... Then so the front then will have a slightly less aggressive flare.... and.... I think the Daytona quarters can be shaped to work out perfect... :)


Does anyone think the 89 ES/Shelby daytona bumper would look weird back there?? :)

GLHNSLHT2
03-22-2011, 12:41 PM
hehe looks a lot like my helper. Helped me strip a shortblock down the last couple weeks.

vipernbox
03-22-2011, 04:49 PM
Had a moment... So worked on the boxes for the boxes for the rear frame rails... :lol:


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NjYtMjAxMTAzMjItMTU0My5qcGc.jpg

vipernbox
03-23-2011, 12:28 AM
Alright... It is a rolling Chassis :) didn't finish the rear frame rails... But they ain't going anywhere... and I just didn't want to mess with them... Will say though.. If you must have a non running rolling chassis in your shop... This is the one to have.. Easiest darn thing to parallel park in the world.. :)


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/007.jpg




Ok... and this is a shot of the hellaflush stance yo!!! :) The front is on springs still and clearly riding just a wee bit high.. but this is very close to all of the suspension sitting at the height it would have sat in a daytona, using some really really stiff springs made from some scrap metal.... No extra lowering required.. :) Sitting on 205/60's... and these wheels will require a spacer to change the offset to clear the brake.. about 3/4 of an inch...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/009.jpg



So then to make room for more tire I am going to need a couple of these...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NjgtMjAxMTAzMjItMjAwNi5qcGc.jpg





Now... I have a choice... first just use the fender lip and end up with roughly this...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/013-1.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/015.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NzAtMjAxMTAzMjItMjA0Mi5qcGc.jpg






Or do I go all out.. full on box flare and do something more like this... The top of what is left of the fender will get trimmed back as no not "overflare"... and the lines will follow the body lines... The back can be left open... or blended smoothly using part of the existing quarter.. What used to be the headlight bucket could make the start of a side scoop for intercooler or just "underhood" cooling...



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NzctMjAxMTAzMjItMjExNi5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NzItMjAxMTAzMjItMjEwMy5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2NzMtMjAxMTAzMjItMjEwNC5qcGc.jpg



Opinions on this one are very welcome...



And if anyone is wondering about roll center... and that kind of stuff... Here is the LCA .. again riding very close to "stock" ride height for the suspension.... with the only changes being the late knuckle from a cast control arm Minivan... and the change in height of the mounting point for the front of the K frame...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2ODAtMjAxMTAzMjItMjEyNS5qcGc-1.jpg

86seeS
03-23-2011, 01:25 AM
Subcribed!!!!

Turbo224
03-23-2011, 11:08 AM
I like the idea of the side scoop. Not only because it looks kinda cool but because you are probably going to need the airflow back there anyways. If it were me, I would just use the fender lip for the flares and then think up some sort of additional side scoop instead of using the headlight bucket opening. I don't like the boxed flare look.

Pat
03-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Wow. Really looks cool!

On the flares, I to think about it a bit more. I thought I'd like the box flares, but now I'm not so sure.

vipernbox
03-23-2011, 12:40 PM
I know... I am so back and forth on this one... If I didn't need the wheelhouse for basic body structure I could play with it a bit... (like my avatar :) ) until I came up with something I really liked and then make it permanent... Maybe I will just trim up the quarter and build the wheel houses that way and keep thinking about this... making it simply decoration instead of a solid part of the quarter... If I go full on box flare building it that way would add a tiny bit of weight... and I like the idea of really trying to make it look like a factory build instead of a tube frame hot rod... But.. hummmm....


Trimmed up I think the box will look far more refined than it does in those pictures.... But... Still I am kinda stuck... If it were 10 or 15 yrs ago I would take the subtle approach for sure, no questions asked..... but with a car this obscure now.. what is the point? Might as well have some fun with it...


I still may end up just shaping what is there... Adding maybe a little "coke bottle" to this charger and seeing what happens... :) after all... This thing really is a Charger/Daytona now... :)

Turbo224
03-23-2011, 01:47 PM
Adding maybe a little "coke bottle" to this charger and seeing what happens... :) after all... This thing really is a Charger/Daytona now... :)


When you put it that way, it kinda sounds intriguing....

vipernbox
03-23-2011, 02:08 PM
When you put it that way, it kinda sounds intriguing....


:) You don't know me very well... That could be purposely awfully awful as easy as it could be intriguing.. :)


(don't think about the wheels I have on there to much.. it might come to you)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukes-Hazzard-GENERAL-LEE-pullback-traction-car-4-/170616160681
(http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukes-Hazzard-GENERAL-LEE-pullback-traction-car-4-/170616160681)

Turbo224
03-23-2011, 05:58 PM
:) You don't know me very well... That could be purposely awfully awful as easy as it could be intriguing.. :)


(don't think about the wheels I have on there to much.. it might come to you)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukes-Hazzard-GENERAL-LEE-pullback-traction-car-4-/170616160681
(http://cgi.ebay.com/Dukes-Hazzard-GENERAL-LEE-pullback-traction-car-4-/170616160681)

Ha ha, either way I am going to be pretty interested to see how this turns out. Keep the pictures coming!

Reaper1
03-23-2011, 08:40 PM
How come I never caught in the suspension thread that you were going after a RWD set-up!? LOL This is friggin COOL!

On the flares...I think I like the more subtle approach. It looks better, looks like it will be easier to make look good, and probably will be lighter.

vipernbox
03-23-2011, 10:15 PM
What about this... :)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2ODgtMjAxMTAzMjMtMjAzOS5qcGc.jpg

Stock...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2OTEtMjAxMTAzMjMtMjA0My5qcGc.jpg


Not Stock :)


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2ODktMjAxMTAzMjMtMjA0My5qcGc.jpg



Hey... Lets try out a daytona bumper... Why not right? I always disliked the charger bumper anyway...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2ODctMjAxMTAzMjMtMjAzOC5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2ODYtMjAxMTAzMjMtMjAzNi5qcGc.jpg





Then... Looking at something like this shape for the side scoops...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA2OTUtMjAxMTAzMjMtMjA1MC5qcGc.jpg




I think I was just way to thirsty late last night or something.. I think I got it tonight... :)

Reaper1
03-23-2011, 11:07 PM
NOW we're talking! THAT looks good! :thumb:

A little sectioning of that bumper and it'll look golden!

It might sound cheesy, but hear me out....for the side scoops...look into NACA ducts. Seriously, people might make jabs at the wannabe Countach, but the reality is they were designed to injest air very efficiently while having very little effect on drag. I also happen to be partial to the look of them.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 PM ----------

BTW...with those wheels and such it's kinda starting to resemble a Star/Quest!

vipernbox
03-23-2011, 11:19 PM
I know... I know... NACA ducts work awesome... and I am always function > form... But I can't figure out how to make it look right.. :)

Loving this look...


29769



but I guess the scoops could go higher... :)


29770

Reaper1
03-23-2011, 11:50 PM
LOL...speaking of Star/Quests! ;)

Turbo224
03-24-2011, 11:31 AM
Yeah, that looks good!

shadow88
03-26-2011, 10:31 AM
Is / was there any plan to install the front engine as well?

vipernbox
03-26-2011, 11:26 AM
No... I want to be able to really make the car handle well.... and one engine is plenty enough to manage... I don't really have the time or budget it would take to really make two engines work great...

Nothing I have done to this point would prevent another engine from being swung in there... Yet :) (I might have some plans for the front suspension)

But I think I want to mount the gas tank and battery up there... A soon as I get the flares done... and the rest of the frame buttoned up I am going to swing the engine in there and put it on some scales and start really laying out the weight balance.. I want the polar moment as close to the drivers seat as possible... So....

zin
03-26-2011, 03:01 PM
I want the polar moment as close to the drivers seat as possible... So....

Might be a handful like that... Quick to turn for sure, but potentially scary at speed! Kinda like a F-16 without the computer!:eek:

I'm sure you can tame it with the suspension though.

Mike

BTW, nice metal work there!

vipernbox
03-26-2011, 03:15 PM
So what do you think... It really depends on weight balance... But I am not against the idea of doing something silly like mounting the IC in the far back and stuff like the battery in the front to make the car rotate a bit slower... so long as the center of rotation is around the driver seat area....

Every mid engine car I have really driven hard it feels like the car is spinning on a point just behind the seat... All I am hoping to do is move that forward a wee bit...

Oh knows.. I may just end up with one heck of fiery crash though... maybe I shouldn't get hung up on stuff like this...


I had it pretty much figured out that I was going to mount a giant IC along the old core support for the daytona and vent it from the side scoops... Sitting right behind the new firewall.. with some water spray to help cooling when needed..... but now these guys have got me revisiting a water/air design..... geeeezzz... I am never going to get this thing done... :)

zin
03-26-2011, 03:29 PM
So what do you think... It really depends on weight balance... But I am not against the idea of doing something silly like mounting the IC in the far back and stuff like the battery in the front to make the car rotate a bit slower... so long as the center of rotation is around the driver seat area....

Every mid engine car I have really driven hard it feels like the car is spinning on a point just behind the seat... All I am hoping to do is move that forward a wee bit...

Oh knows.. I may just end up with one heck of fiery crash though... maybe I shouldn't get hung up on stuff like this...


I had it pretty much figured out that I was going to mount a giant IC along the old core support for the daytona and vent it from the side scoops... Sitting right behind the new firewall.. with some water spray to help cooling when needed..... but now these guys have got me revisiting a water/air design..... geeeezzz... I am never going to get this thing done... :)

I think it shows care in your design that you researched enough to even know what polar moments are and how they might affect the outcome! I can't say that I've driven a lot of mid-engine cars, so I have to defer to your judgement there. The more I think about it, the less of a problem it is likely to be... I tend to think of the extreme, where most of the mass would be on that point, but balancing it out a bit should keep it from being "twitchy", especially if you design the suspension with this in mind.

Sounds like you are entertaining thoughts of a SLA front suspension?... That with what will be an independent rear has the right mix for some very serious handling potential!

Mike

vipernbox
03-27-2011, 01:37 AM
didn't get a whole lot done... but I am committed to flaring...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MTYtMjAxMTAzMjYtMTk1NC5qcGc.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjAtMjAxMTAzMjYtMjEwNS5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjYtMjAxMTAzMjYtMjM1NS5qcGc.jpg


Oh... I did get this done...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjEtMjAxMTAzMjYtMjIxMS5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjItMjAxMTAzMjYtMjIyOC5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjMtMjAxMTAzMjYtMjI0Ni5qcGc.jpg

SebringLX
03-27-2011, 11:19 AM
Maybe it's just 'cause I don't see the engine in it yet and I can't visualize it... but it kinda looks to me like this is going to be more rear engine than mid engine? Either way, still awesome! :thumb:

vipernbox
03-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Just look at any FWD turbo dodge.. The engine is completely ahead of the axles... Which don't exactly angle forwards... Hence.. mid engine...

dds78910
03-27-2011, 07:59 PM
Awsome swap, I have always wanted to do this same thing. The only "spare" cars I've have were spirits it and thought it might make it difficult to get the engine in and out since there are not hatch backs. The carger would be a way better canidate. Looks good!

Reaper1
03-27-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm VERY interested in the flaring process. I've been mentally visualizing and planing something similar for a LONG time, but I really don't have the time to really put into a project like that right now. I've always thought that IF I were to do a widebody type mod to my car that I'd HAVE to do it with sheetmetal for ME to be satisfied with it. I want it like the car was actually made that way, so unless the entire panel was replaed by a composite peice, it would not do for me to have composite flares and hacked up steel behind it! I REALLY respect your project even that much more now! :thumb:

Aries_Turbo
03-27-2011, 11:15 PM
i dont like the omni flares.

the shape is too round compared to the front.

a cut and sectioned flare using SC fenders would look much better.

overall, awesome!

vipernbox
03-28-2011, 12:35 AM
Oh don't worry Aries.. Sooner or later the front will match just fine. :) Ii did think about using Charger fenders to make the flare.. and thinking about it you could really pull of some pretty neat stuff complementing the stock body lines very well... Even though I think the Charger body is about the most perfectly ugly thing ever built.. that is one of the things I don't like..


Reaper1... I am really kinda cheating as far as metal shaping really goes doing the quarter the way I am... Still though.. I think I will have a couple tricks for ya before it is all said and done... I am still trying to figure out whether I should vent the wheelwells through the back of the quarter old school style.. Something along these lines

29942


Or blending them in so a more "stock" appearance is retained, which was the plan until this afternoon when i was looking at it while working on something else :mad:

I really want to open up the front fenders like that also to let them breath.. :) But... you know... I darn sure don't want to end up to ricer... especially after going to all the trouble to use as much steel as possible.. So the question becomes how to make all of those extra openings easy on the eye.... (probably won't do the front.. but I really want to)


and no NACA ducts on the side... Sorry.. There isn't enough negative slope for them to really work... and well... I think you will like the direction I am going... in the next couple days I should have some nice progress...

I am just making sure I leave plenty of room for a tire to grow if need be.. Right now if I am not having an issue with my brain (which happens sometimes... ) I should have enough space to clear a 26x10... (Taller than right about that hits the strut anyway) and at least a 25x11 closer to 12... And that is without "rolling" the 'stock' fender lip and leaving plenty of room to spare at full bump without the bumpstop on the strut...

The tire that is on in those last pictures is a 23x9.5 slick designed to fit a 7 inch wheel... and with enough spacer to make that wheel clear the brake I have about 3/4 of an inch to the strut.. with tons of negative camber.... and lots of room to go out even with the wheel at zero camber... a 23 inch tall tire could be probably 13 inches wide before anything would need changed again... and it wouldn't be that much of a change anyway...


And just think... up front... The tires will no longer be rubbing the transmission...:eyebrows:


at first I was thinking 245 out back and 225 up front... But... :evil::evil:

Reaper1
03-28-2011, 01:08 AM
I have been on the fence as far as the vented wheel wells are concerned as well. Aerodynamically it makes sense. It relieves the high pressure that builds in there due to the spinning tire. I've actualy gone as far as designing ductwork that could be made out of composite to duct the air from the wheelwell out under and/or behind the car. Using the foam-as-a-mold technique where it can be molded to any shape needed, you could make very interesting ducts that can fit any contour and as long as the vent end goes to a low pressure area, it would work.

vipernbox
03-28-2011, 01:16 AM
yep... That is what i was thinking... The rear quarter vents could be used to help the side vents work better by helping keep the pressure (and heat) down in the engine compartment also... Correct???


And I have this video ordered... I thought I knew a thing or two about metal working.. But this guy amazes me...

http://www.metalshapingzone.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8



And this guy ain't bad either...

Follow the youtube links through his series... well worth your time..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LctS-jTER_M

Reaper1
03-28-2011, 01:31 AM
Yup, I think you have the right idea on the vents. You might even be able to get the vent to act in a scavaging role depending on the pressure differential and what is actually going on with the air back there. With the GoPro being easy to get, it is now even easier to do real world, full scale aero testing, even for hobbyists! You honestly don't need CFD, and all the aero classes to make a good judgement on what is going on. You just need to employ a good, scientific method, have a basic understanding of how aero works, and do a bit a research in automotive aero. Given some time and effort you could probably come up with a design that is VERY functional AND cleans the car up! :thumb:

spoolinhard
03-28-2011, 12:24 PM
love the omni flares, cant wait to see what its going to look like

vipernbox
03-28-2011, 04:01 PM
Alright ... here is what I have Reaper1... (everything held in place with hot glue :) )



The wire on the back near the taillight frames what will be the end of the flare and the size of the vent opening...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MzEtMjAxMTAzMjgtMTMzOC5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MjgtMjAxMTAzMjgtMTMzOC5qcGc.jpg



Here is the mess I have now on the inside.


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MzItMjAxMTAzMjgtMTM0MC5qcGc.jpg



The idea is to end at the existing quarter panel and work a vent up from there around the strut tower...


Then once that is done then... I dunno.. What do you think will work best for the wheelhouse? Got any suggestions on how to let them breath without making rust traps???

Reaper1
03-28-2011, 07:38 PM
Seeing as I'm a total sucker for composite stuff, I'd make the wheelhouse liners out of fiberglass and then use a combination of screws and body seam sealer to hold them in. This may sound kind of "hoky", but they'd be light, removable, repairable, wouldn't corrode, and fairly easy to make. You could make the "mold" out of chicken wire and use that as a backing support as well.

"Top Fuel" Bender
03-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Seeing as I'm a total sucker for composite stuff, I'd make the wheelhouse liners out of fiberglass and then use a combination of screws and body seam sealer to hold them in. This may sound kind of "hoky", but they'd be light, removable, repairable, wouldn't corrode, and fairly easy to make. You could make the "mold" out of chicken wire and use that as a backing support as well.
http://www.jerrybickel.com/carbon-carbon-wheel-tubs-jbrc2115c.html
http://www.jerrybickel.com/images/jbrc2115cJBRC2115C%20copy.jpg

Reaper1
03-29-2011, 12:17 AM
Yeah, this would be a good starting point!

vipernbox
03-29-2011, 12:50 AM
Made a tiny bit of progress... But I think it is coming along nicely....


I have really been thinking about the wheelhouses... and if I can tie the quarter and the daytona wheelhouse sections together... Heck... I have been in and out of the plastics industry for years... and a guy down the street vacuum molds thermo setting plastics all the time... :eyebrows:

I won't "cheat" on the outside... but maybe... hummm......


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MzYtMjAxMTAzMjgtMjIwNy5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3NDAtMjAxMTAzMjgtMjMwNS5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA3MzktMjAxMTAzMjgtMjMwNC5qcGc.jpg

Reaper1
03-29-2011, 01:17 AM
WOW!! I am digging how that is coming together! :thumb: Makes me want to break out the cutting wheel and welder! LOL

Turbo224
03-29-2011, 11:40 AM
Yeah, that's looks really good! I love how the Shelby sticker sits right inside the side scoop.

66auto-xcharger
03-29-2011, 11:46 AM
Now that is sweet :dancingbana:

blk86trbo
03-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Yeah looks really good man, nice job...will be neat to see this thing pull the front wheels!

vipernbox
03-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Yeah looks really good man, nice job...will be neat to see this thing pull the front wheels!

"Turbo Under Glass" ??? :)

Since I already have the rusty L body floor pans to deal with up front... I will be able to see where I am going... :)



Run a 10 on the back wheels... :love: :hail::hail:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pwrqpfjrj4

2.216VTurbo
03-29-2011, 11:41 PM
Mkay, I've just kinda been lurking and following along but the last set of pics prompted me to post some questions.

Did you make a final decision on the powerplant? (hmm, 450HP 16V four vs 500 HP big block:evil:)

Is this a drag only go-as-fast-as-you-can rig or blvd cruiser that can also kick arse?

Are you working on this thing full time? You said you made a little progress on the last set of pics but it looks like 25 hrs of bodywork to me:lol:

vipernbox
03-30-2011, 01:08 AM
A Blvd cruiser with LOTS of bite.. and plenty capable of handling its own on the autoX or road course... wherever I end up.... :) Just something I always wanted to build and never got around to building.. I wanted a nice charger and kept running into rust.. So If figured.. what the heck.. If I have to cut half the damn car apart anyway to fix rust or other issues..... Why not put it back together the right way.. :)




The Masi motor was just a big stroke of luck, and the tipping point for going ahead with the project... The original idea for power was going to be a 2.5/2.4 hybrid.. Sure.. I could cut up the body and drop it on a tube frame with a big ole V8.. boring... (ok not really but you get my point) It just has been done to many times... Somewhere in the thread I linked to an integra a guy converted to a mid rear setup... I love that car.. He just needs more power... and after this fall and I have a bit more budget to work with... finishing it off so it looks like a real car instead of just a race car is totally in the plans...

All these guys on here trying to build "streetable" 10 second cars... :) I plan to do that... as well as be able to hit the autoX and go for a country drive... :)


But for now...... I am still totally on track to have it up and running well for less than a 2011 dollar budget... :)


Typically get from 9pm after the kids are to bed till about 11 each night to goof off... sometimes I can squeeze an hour in the middle of day... and the weekends are up for grabs... Sometime they are mine.. sometimes not.


Not counting hours upon hours of research time.. I am probably 40 hours into actual working time on the project... Although... If I should ever need to do this again.. It could go MUCH faster.... But I am in no real hurry... and won't rush things... I have so much fun out there.... My little flaring job on the side makes me smile every time I see it..




Just got a little done tonight.. Cut all the rusty thrash out of that side.. Made all the templates for the wheelhouse... and have that side scoop looking frign awesome... I promise pics when it is done... Right now the quarter is laying on the floor getting the final tweaks... (that "hot glue" trick my dad talked me into works awesome... using the hot glue designed for paint-less dent removal to temporarily hold panels in place....) and I couldn't deal with it... the dang gas filler hole plug heat shrunk a bit to much.. So I cut it out and welded a new section in.... Working with all steel takes some time... But bondo ain't in this budget... :)

vipernbox
03-31-2011, 01:42 AM
To many distractions tonight... but here are some better quality pictures of the progress anyway..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/016-1.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/015-1.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/012-1.jpg

Turbo224
03-31-2011, 02:14 AM
Love it! The side scoop looks really good. I'm not sure that i'm sold on the rear vent, I need to see it with paint. Any idea how many extra inches the flares give you for tire clearance?

ShadowFromHell
03-31-2011, 03:05 AM
Looks good. Ive been toying with the idea of doing this to my rampage, but with a boosted 3.0

dds78910
03-31-2011, 12:24 PM
Not a TM but a cool site on a Mid engine conversion on a Integra I had saved on my Favorites. It has alot of pics and info. I thought it was pretty cool.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/19-projects-diy-article-talk/66688-94-gsr-mid-engine-rwd-h22a4-conversion.html

vipernbox
03-31-2011, 12:37 PM
Oh yeah... That integra is a really really neat garage build.. I wasted enough time over the last couple months to read that whole thread

Here is a link to just the pictures...

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v424/RaceCity_USA/GSRProject/


And just for kicks.. just a couple more of my favorites for whatever reason...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2970226

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1266033

http://www.kimini.com/index.html

This... is a really cool site... http://zcars.org.uk/index.php

vipernbox
04-03-2011, 09:25 PM
I always feel like I didn't get a lot done.. and it was frign hot today in KC.. it 91 degrees.. i wish I had gone sailing.. :) 30+ mph winds all day today.. I didn't go because the lake surface temp just hit 50 degrees.. and I didn't count on the air temp getting that high... Oh well... I had a little fun anyway... Like I said.. didn't get a lot done... and sure didn't feel like bodywork... So I hammered one of these out...


First.. Start with some old metal shelving.. and a cardboard template..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/010-1.jpg

Then... a little cutting.. and tack some steel rod into place...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/012-2.jpg

Then apply hammer and a flattened out cold chisel... and beat the snot out of the thing....

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/013-2.jpg




Finally... a little cursing.. some trimming... remove the tacks holding the steel rod.. some clamping... a few temporary sheet metal screws..... a few more whacks with a hammer......

and end up here...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/020.jpg



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/017.jpg

With a coat of truck bed liner, or similar type of undercoating, I tink dat will do just fine donkey...

86seeS
04-03-2011, 09:48 PM
Love this project man cant wait to see it done! Keep up the great progress

Turbo224
04-04-2011, 01:15 PM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/017.jpg

With a coat of truck bed liner, or similar type of undercoating, I tink dat will do just fine donkey...

Help me out here, what am I looking at that took so much time to fabricate?

vipernbox
04-04-2011, 01:36 PM
It is the rear frame rail... Basically tying the back of the K frame into the last little section of the charger frame rail... combined with the extensions I had made before... (I think on page 2)

I am trying to do it so it doesn't just look like a back yard tube frame "Here this will work" kinda thing underneath... I plan on having a "trunk" floor at the same height as the old charger floor...(the trunk should end up about 16x16x50 inches)


This could have been done "better" a number of different ways... But ... This seemed like the simplest idea... Suggestions are always welcome around here...

Here is the "before" of that section...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/011.jpg

Turbo224
04-04-2011, 04:04 PM
Ah, I get it. I appreciate the amount of forethought you have put into this project. I think that's the only way to make sure that you end up with exactly what you want.

ShadowFromHell
04-04-2011, 05:34 PM
Ive got to say I am REALLY liking this build. I have toyed with the idea of doing this to my rampage, but using a 3.0 instead of a 2.2. The rampage would have ALOT of room for things like turbos... lol. Do you have anymore pics of how you tied the front of the donor chassis into the L body frame? Id like to see how well the factory frame "rails" line up with the front core support of the donor. Are you going to add a cage to tie it all together a little bit better? That's what I was thinking of doing with the page. Just a 6-point with one hoop behind the cab, two door bars running forward, and then a tube going from the new rear strut tower to the main hoop. I think that would add alot of extra strength.

vipernbox
04-04-2011, 06:13 PM
Room for turbos... Are you kidding?? :) Just look at that last pic... :) anything that goes in the way is going to be something I have chosen to put there.. Long term I think most of the remaining daytona "firewall is going to disappear and my own creation will show up... I still have a couple options there to say the least... I plan on making the firewalls on both sides removable... but with the Radiator in the front... There is going to be LOTS of room... Enough so... that if you ran a 8v head... You could come up with something that would look like a backseat...


I have not quite come to a conclusion about how I want to tie the front in... Right now I am thinking that I just might redirect the daytona rails and have them meet the charger frame where I want... The way it sits right now the daytona frame rails sit just inside... Literally touching the frame rails one the charger right at the point where the Charger suspension bolts up.. This will also make a perfect location to mount the roll bar hoop... :) So.. It is just a matter of how to get it done..


Here... a collection of before, after, progress type pictures of that "front" frame area...

oh... and something to note... At this point.. the only steel in the car that was not originally a part of the charger or the daytona is that heavy gauge steel shelving.. (free) :) and of course the omni fenders... The rest is recycled.. Even that rusty rocker/quarter came from the quarter of the daytona.. The only reason the shelving was used is because I wanted a little more meat right there... and it seemed just about right for the job..


:)

Ok... so the "before" so you can reference the basic path of the original structure..

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/107.jpg


Chop all that out and end up here... (You just have to love my most accurate and very precise chassis leveling and squaring system floating the car over my lift arms... )

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/071.jpg


Close up of what is left... This is the suspension mounting point for the charger..

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/0852.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/066.jpg






And here we have the daytona core support slid right into the nearly perfect hole... the Charger frame runs at a bit of an angle.. or this would be absolutely perfect...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/056.jpg


A little trimming here and there... some hammering... tons of measuring and string lines ect ect ect to make sure everything is square in all directions..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/024.jpg


Then a couple whacks with a hammer to fold that lip into the rail... and this is what is currently holding it in place until the rest of the structure is figured out..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/019.jpg









Any more questions.. :)

ShadowFromHell
04-04-2011, 09:45 PM
So, the daytona front end slid inside the charger frame rails? Thats what I am thinking I am seeing, just want to be sure. As for the more room for turbos comment, I was saying for me I would have more room as I am wanting to put this in a rampage that has a longer wheelbase, and will just be leaving the bed open, so imagine a 3.0 sitting in the bed of a rampage.

vipernbox
04-04-2011, 11:23 PM
If I was going to do this to a rampage and wanted a V6 I would use an LH type car donor.(or other similar)... That way you end up with a Longitudinal engine... (stuck with an auto though... but that means less stuff to fabricate) It would just look that much better.... and suspension cradle would be much easier to work with.... and modify for use... I played around with a couple of them at the pick and pull that someone had pulled... and It would have been a pretty easy deal.... But the Masi engine just practically fell in my lap... and well.. without a doubt that is just the right thing to do.. :)

And ya... Not having to build firewalls at all would sure take a couple steps out of the project.. and make lots more room all the time... I keep thinking I may move the dip stick to the back of the engine somehow simply because I don't always want to have to do basic stuff like check the oil from the inside of the car...


Yes... the daytona frame slips right b/t the charger rails where I cut it...


And the Rampage has a longer wheelbase because it rides on a full omni pan.. correct??? The difference in the wheelbase comes out of the backseat footwell area... There is a seam right there on the charger that I am not even sure is in the omni pan... IIRC (and I might be wrong) but the charger floorpan is quite literally a chopped down 4 door pan... A couple people hinted that maybe the Charger wasn't the best candidate because of space issues because of the wheelbase... But the difference in wheelbase really changes nothing as far that goes...

The extra wheelbase would be nice on a Mid engine RWD car for sure... and if I had this one to do over... I would have just stretched it... I was concerned for some silly reason with fitting the wheel into the existing opening... Not knowing exactly how I was going to build the quarter panel flares... But since I basically cut the side of the car off... and have to make the trunk dropoff's, wheelhouse and other inner structure any dang way... It was really silly to have not given myself a little extra distance b/t the wheels... Oh well... I ain't messing with that now...

rib256
04-10-2011, 02:34 PM
subsribed. And I love the scoops.

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-10-2011, 02:54 PM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/011.jpg


just saw the rack sticking thru
might want to make a rod on spacers with the ends threaded for the outter rod ends or heim joints
to keep it from moving on you

like the build so far

vipernbox
04-10-2011, 03:42 PM
What.. you didn't see the steering wheel mocked up back there.. I am just trying to figure out how to mount the seat for the rear driver........

Naw.... the Rack goes away completely... In fact most of that sheet metal right there is going to disappear... I think you will like what I have in mind :) The "toe links" are going to be completely adjustable... Right now with just the rack in place, there is a totally unacceptable amount of bumpsteer for my plans..... and it goes the wrong way... The plan is to locate the inner rod so I have zero bumpsteer (really not hard to do) and then work from there... Allowing me to adjust a little bumpsteer in or out as needed to make it handle the way I want.. That may require a tiny bit of toe in as in both compression and droop... But... since I have a nifty plan to make all of that adjustable.... No worries.. :)


Ok... Break is over... Back to work...

vipernbox
04-10-2011, 10:21 PM
Alright... I have no idea why some of you guys like to pull and place engines from the top... but I had another car on the lift so I figured I would give it a go... ended up sitting it on my nice engine lift and lifting it back up from underneath to get it in place... But what the heck... maybe with another try I might have it down a little better... but my junky engine hoist I hardly ever use just barely had enough reach.... and that didn't help.... and a helper that I don't ever need going from the bottom would have made a HUGE difference... From the bottom my slick jack allows both hands free... and well... Oh well.. it didn't take that long anyway....


It will be back in and out a couple times probably before it moves under its own power... Still this really make me smile...



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/023.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/041.jpg

86seeS
04-10-2011, 11:00 PM
Yes! Its in looking good man

GLHNSLHT2
04-10-2011, 11:20 PM
Man I'd like to see a bigger close up photo from that same view but just everything inside the strut towers. I've never seen a full masi exhaust side with the turbo on it and all the associated stuff.

vipernbox
04-10-2011, 11:32 PM
I dunno if this help you... But here ya go...


Based on what I have been told... with a little porting the Masi manifold will probably stick around... with an adapter built to mount whatever real turbo I end up using.. :) and from the looks of the manifold... It looks symmetrical enough that I should be able to flip the manifold over.... :eyebrows:

But I dunno...



anyway.. here ya go..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/024-1.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/025.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/028.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/038.jpg

GLHNSLHT2
04-11-2011, 12:28 AM
It will flip over and slide on the studs. I'm pretty sure that the port holes line up as well. I'm going to see if I can flip it over in my daytona and run the turbo up top. I'm not sure what they did here: http://www.streetfire.net/video/430whp-89-dodge-spirit-pump-gass_56339.htm but it looks like that's maybe what they did.

mopargriffin
04-11-2011, 01:16 AM
Glad I finally found your thread! This is Griffin with the Rampage, (from sdac meeting)! Man I cant wait to see more progress. Its looking great, keep it up!

vipernbox
04-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Alright... So no love for "Turbo under Glass"


How's 'bout...


My my my i yi woo
My my my my Charona


Or maybe something simple like a bad 80's version of a Charger Daytona

No wait. This one should be the Plymouth Superturd....

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA4MDMtMjAxMTA0MTItMTUxMy5qcGc.jpg




:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:




http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/Alright...%20So%20no%20love%20for%20%22Turbo%20und er%20Glass%22%20%20%20How%27s%20%27bout...%20%20%2 0My%20my%20my%20i%20yi%20woo%20My%20my%20my%20my%2 0Charona%20%20%20Or%20maybe%20something%20simple%2 0like%20a%20bad%2080%27s%20version%20of%20a%20Char ger%20Daytona%20%20No%20wait.%20This%20one%20shoul d%20be%20the%20Plymouth%20Superturd....

Turbo224
04-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Yikes! Please dont put the Daytona nose on there!

turbokid
04-13-2011, 07:45 AM
Hey I know Les sent out an email talking about your car, but what I did not realize is that you are local to KC. I would love to come visually check out the car when you have some time. Looks like it is coming along VERY well. We may have met before but I dont remember seeing you at any prior MWSDAC meetings. Hopefully when I come back from college that will change. Progress looks fantastic and keep up the good work!
Q

vipernbox
04-13-2011, 10:17 AM
Stop by anytime...

Reaper1
04-15-2011, 12:31 AM
It will flip over and slide on the studs. I'm pretty sure that the port holes line up as well. I'm going to see if I can flip it over in my daytona and run the turbo up top. I'm not sure what they did here: http://www.streetfire.net/video/430whp-89-dodge-spirit-pump-gass_56339.htm but it looks like that's maybe what they did.

Anybody know who's Spirit that is?

I agree that the progress is looking very good!

GLHS444
04-16-2011, 05:40 PM
This is what the GLHS Charger should have been...to bad Lido didnt give the blessing to do it..or Carroll the time or money to do so..

Kudo's Vipernbox...

vipernbox
04-22-2011, 05:56 PM
Not a lot done... But that should change tonight and tomorrow.. :)


I did get this done... I have a better idea...(lighter but just as strong, and simpler to adjust) but for now this bolts in and allows a fair amount of adjustment... Just the guts of an old steering rack and a couple pieces of angle...


Oh... and did a little more trimming...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA4NDQtMjAxMTA0MjItMTUyNy5qcGc.jpg

vipernbox
04-23-2011, 10:42 PM
Ok... Had to build a deck today... So not a lot of playing around... But ya'll might find this interesting... Most of the weight is either sorta laying in the car... or simulated.... and if anything is missing it is from the front... ie.. radiator, larger tires.. the big brakes for the front... ect...

All that being said... This is where it balances at.. actually just a wee bit ahead of this point... but one finger will lift it...

:)

Not a bad starting place eh?


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA4NDYtMjAxMTA0MjMtMjEwMi5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDA4NDktMjAxMTA0MjMtMjEwMi5qcGc.jpg

86seeS
04-23-2011, 11:09 PM
I liked the "turbo under glass" idea.... Car looks great keep it up

vipernbox
04-23-2011, 11:10 PM
hehe.... ^ I have no idea what you are talking about :)

zin
04-25-2011, 03:13 PM
That is going to be one sick handling car!

I imagine it will feel a bit weird to have a Charger rotate around YOU in your seat! But, given the chance I'd take that ride!

Mike

66auto-xcharger
05-10-2011, 10:04 PM
OK Now I am going though withdrawal. Need up dates

David H.
Lost In Akron Ohio

vipernbox
05-11-2011, 10:36 PM
Holy crap... It has been more than two weeks since I welded anything on the car... Dang... You are not the only one going through withdrawals... A couple of the business's I have going got REALLY busy and I have hardly even had time to stop and sit in the car and make engine noises...

But don't worry.. It isn't on the back burner.. I have tinkered with a couple things for the car... and now have a totally awesome tube bender... :) So things should happen quickly when they do... hopefully that still works out.. my goal was an ugly running car by SDAC... So... I might be looking at a couple sleepless nights to make some time.. :)

mopargriffin
05-28-2011, 03:04 AM
Hows the Charger coming along? Cant wait to see this thing driving!

vipernbox
05-29-2011, 01:46 AM
How is the Charger coming along :( winds are supposed to be 15-20mph tomorrow with gusts to 30mph... Meaing I will be on this.. running 20mph most of the day.. Hope to pull a skier tomorrow... Oh... and I have a 18ft version of this one I just bought to try out...


Sorry... I will get back to it soon enough... Stay on me... I have most of the Passenger side flare work done if that counts for anything...


31205...

Juggy
05-29-2011, 02:15 AM
sweet! man this thing is going to be insane

moparman76_69
05-29-2011, 09:05 AM
SDAC is in a month you better get on it.

66auto-xcharger
07-05-2011, 08:11 PM
Progress Report ??????????

David H.
Lost In Akron Ohio

86seeS
07-05-2011, 08:18 PM
it Wasnt at sdac I sheded a tear or two

ATaylorRacing
07-06-2011, 07:27 PM
I think you should have had a front drivetrain and a mid drivetrain...this was done many moons ago for a Chrysler that was owned by Mancini Racings owner....3.5 front and rear.

AND, a certain guy that I sold my first drag car to (81 Horizon Euro-Sedan {RARE}) put a stock 440 in the back and had zoomie headers sticking out where the rear wheels used to be and some frame rails going behind the car with a 9" Ford rear end hooked up and 31" tall tires! He'd drive it to the track on the 2.2 four speed and then stick it in neutral, installing a shorty drive shaft and go racing. He built it to go 12.0s, the bottom of the Pro class back then. My GLH turbo with Nitrous would out run it after the first 100'...here are pics:
3231032309

"Top Fuel" Bender
07-06-2011, 09:16 PM
I think you should have had a front drivetrain and a mid drivetrain...this was done many moons ago for a Chrysler that was owned by Mancini Racings owner....3.5 front and rear.

AND, a certain guy that I sold my first drag car to (81 Horizon Euro-Sedan {RARE}) put a stock 440 in the back and had zoomie headers sticking out where the rear wheels used to be and some frame rails going behind the car with a 9" Ford rear end hooked up and 31" tall tires! He'd drive it to the track on the 2.2 four speed and then stick it in neutral, installing a shorty drive shaft and go racing. He built it to go 12.0s, the bottom of the Pro class back then. My GLH turbo with Nitrous would out run it after the first 100'...here are pics:
3231032309

THANK YOU !!!
I just told this story to the guys out at Maple Grove and they all looked at me like I was nuts

Glmwpg
07-07-2011, 01:02 AM
Subscribed. What a great project!

Reaper1
07-07-2011, 11:10 AM
I saw a PT Cruiser at Carlisle years ago that had a 3.5 stuffed in the rear. It was for sale, but I don't know if it was driveable...

zin
08-10-2011, 01:19 AM
Looking for an update and to offer words of encouragement!:thumb:

Mike

vipernbox
08-10-2011, 10:57 AM
So I have been to Canada fishing... hitting regatta's with my Hobie 16.. found some time to work on it and the wifes car needed a transmission... I am involved in a business or two that are really taking off... basically summer came around.. All in all though it is good thing.. The car is sitting center stage in my shop... and having some time not working on it has generated some cool ideas.. Just not time under the welding helmet...

Just stay tuned... One of the big reasons why I wanted it running by SDAC was because I knew my summmer was going to be like this..... It just wasn't in the cards though...

So sorry guys...

The other day though I did manage to get caught out on the lake when a frign squall blew through... Here I am with my inexperienced dad trying to ride out 30mph of wind... gusting to 50mph... 4 ft waves and all that... On an inland lake... on a 16ft Hobie cat.. one weather spotter nearby reported a peak 70mph gust.. it was awesome... So yeah.. don't worry.. the heat is about to break and I will find time again soon...

:)

zin
08-10-2011, 12:04 PM
Good to hear its still an "active" project!

I for one understand that you have to make hay while you can and enjoy the other loves of one's life!

Looking forward to the new ideas!

Mike

66auto-xcharger
08-15-2011, 08:20 PM
Great to here all Is well I know how hard it is to find the Time needed to work on a project of this magnitude. I wish you were closer as I would like to help out.
You must have survived the wind and waves, glad that you made it back safe and sound.
Sounds like a great adventure. Did you catch any fish ?
Can’t wait to here you cool ideas for the Mid Engine Charger. How much Room is there between the rear of the car and the Daytona section after you installed it? I am looking at my GLH and PIC of you Charger and thinking that it well be tight but doable.

David H.
Lost in Akron Ohio

Turbo224
11-11-2011, 10:28 PM
So what's going on with this project?

vipernbox
11-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Life.. :lol: Give me one more month then there will be some real progress.. Very busy around here.. I have a Christmas lighting business in full swing right now.. and spent the summer racing Hobie 16's... then this week wife had a stroke.. kids sick.. me sick....

Don't worry.. It hasn't been forgotten

www.turbogod.com
11-22-2011, 03:28 AM
subscribed. after u get the mid engine working maybeput the one back in front with it :) that should be easy to do... love it

ucku
11-22-2011, 10:06 PM
ok i dont get it y do this to your car? I like what u did with the quarter

vipernbox
12-06-2011, 04:20 PM
Ok... Time to get some updates and real progress on this.. But first.. I am to lazy to look this one up..

Right now the Masi engine and a 568 are swinging in the back of the car.. IIRC I have the 'proper' 568 tranny side mounted still bolted to that side... and the masi stuff still bolted to the engine mount side... Now something needs to change because the engine side is pushed way to far to the passenger side. It would bolt down but leave no room for adjustment...

Remember all of this is bolted in a 88 daytona engine bay.

I thought I remember something needed done to something to make a 568/523 live where a 555 used to be.. but I can't remember..


Yeah.. I know.. dumb thing to get stuck on, or even ask about given the scale of the project. but asking bumps this project up in my minds own forum and will get the ball rolling again..

:)

Aries_Turbo
12-06-2011, 07:11 PM
did you accidentally use a L body mount somewhere?

accidentally use a 90+ mount somewhere?

brian

AZTurbo
12-06-2011, 07:29 PM
The bobble strut on the back of the 568/523 is offset further to the passenger side IIRC. It's pretty far, about an inch, inch and a half? Someone else is probably better qualified on the measurement, but it is definitely further over - not sure if Masi used the same rear strut.

GLHNSLHT2
12-06-2011, 09:04 PM
Ok... Time to get some updates and real progress on this.. But first.. I am to lazy to look this one up..

Right now the Masi engine and a 568 are swinging in the back of the car.. IIRC I have the 'proper' 568 tranny side mounted still bolted to that side... and the masi stuff still bolted to the engine mount side... Now something needs to change because the engine side is pushed way to far to the passenger side. It would bolt down but leave no room for adjustment...

Remember all of this is bolted in a 88 daytona engine bay.

I thought I remember something needed done to something to make a 568/523 live where a 555 used to be.. but I can't remember..


Yeah.. I know.. dumb thing to get stuck on, or even ask about given the scale of the project. but asking bumps this project up in my minds own forum and will get the ball rolling again..

:)

Only thing to make a 523/568 go where a 555 used to be is to use the 555 tranny mount and grind a bit on the bracket to clear the case like this. http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/v/Members+Rides/Jay+Jochec/TMTD+pics/0522111604a.jpg.html

vipernbox
12-06-2011, 11:06 PM
That must be what I have done.. I don't think I used a 555/520 mount.. I think I used the 568 mount... duh... I knew it was something like that... I thought I remembered doing that grinding.. but whatever...



Great.. Now I have to get to work.. The only excuse I have left is the wife's sebring which had a diff pin knock a hole in the case... Gota get that heap off the lift then the fun can really start..


Tubing bender and notcher are all bolted to the floor ready to go... :o

vipernbox
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
All I know is that i'm going to be very disappointed if this turns into another one of those projects that never gets finished. Keep up the good work!!


haha!

zin
02-08-2012, 01:25 PM
This project is too cool to fail! Just gotta find some of that bailout money!

Mike

vipernbox
02-08-2012, 01:42 PM
:)

It isn't money causing the problem for sure.. Some good old fashioned hard work paid off, and I have more work than I can handle. Which isn't leaving time to spend money.. and I ain't complaining.


And still can't find quality help. and won't tolerate anything less..


But the Charger is on the lift. Even did some more welding.. I have the shifter figured out.. Cables and stuff pretty well sorted.. Just gota get to it.

And even have been having lots of fun powder coating here in my shop. ;) So.. (i'll have to post pix later)

BIGBRUDDA
02-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Subscribed!!

vipernbox
02-27-2012, 01:31 PM
Ok.. I am just going to put this here so I don't lose it..

http://www.facebook.com/iNVisionPrototypes

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=4281&page=3


37822

vipernbox
02-27-2012, 04:11 PM
Oh.. and March is "Charger Month" here at the Holm House.. I have been working tooooo hard.. Time for a break...

Picking up a real welder the end of this week.. Then game on...



But I have kinda of design question...


Do I shoot for more of a late/mid seventies kinda look... think Mustang II Cobra, Hot Rod Chevy Monza meets Pantera...


Or all out MTV 80's awfulness? Digital dash kinda stuff...


Just thinking outloud about the subtle details... as I am still leaning towards almost a standard Shelby Charger paint scheme.. except in black and gold...

beeblebrox82
02-27-2012, 07:51 PM
I like the idea of keeping it shelby-ish! And wow, what a build!

zin
02-27-2012, 08:46 PM
I also like the idea of making it a Shelby "fantasy" piece, something Shelby might have built, but scrapped due to practicalities, and as such keeping it looking "Shelby" would fit best, if that makes sense... Of course, what really matters is what YOU want it to be, it's your effort making this thing a reality, it should please you, and if the rest of the world enjoys it too, well than that's a nice bonus!

Mike

moparman76_69
02-27-2012, 08:53 PM
I like the idea of running a digi dash and atc and all those goodies along with digital readout boost, wideband, etc. I'd like silver/blue or maybe a reverse shelby scheme or solid sante fe blue or maybe the electric blue from the ram ss/t trucks. Feel free to do it the way you want, I plan on seeing it at SDAC!

vipernbox
02-27-2012, 09:02 PM
So what would a Shelby Fantasy piece built in the mid 80's Look like? You have seen my flare on the side.. Well roughed in anyway...


Going to take a Flat charger hood and duct the radiator in the stock location over the car..

I plan on cutting the omni rear wheel arches from a parts car and making the arch shape on the front fender match the new rear flare.

Also plan on having kinda subtle GT350 style scoops in place of the sail panel behind the window...

Thinking about maybe enlarging the duck tail spoiler to something along the lines of the DC spoiler..



The paint was going to be the Standard Shelby Charger.. Black car with a gold skunk stripe. Gold from the inside of the sidescoop forward..


I haven't decided on the back glass yet.. Hoping to be able to try a rampage glass... :) But the hatch may stay.. with pexi of course...


So..

How would Shelby have built it?

vipernbox
02-27-2012, 09:16 PM
I like the idea of running a digi dash and atc and all those goodies along with digital readout boost, wideband, etc. I'd like silver/blue or maybe a reverse shelby scheme or solid sante fe blue or maybe the electric blue from the ram ss/t trucks. Feel free to do it the way you want, I plan on seeing it at SDAC!

I totally flipp'n love that electric blue color...


But this is what I am hung up on..


That isn't really a 70's kinda color.. (just convince me to find it cheap and use it somehow.. don't forget the budget cap :) )

Think widebody Monza's

378253782637827




I dunno.. Still lacking inspiration..

If it was a Laser.. all digital dash.. a practical how "Kit" should have been.. but something about the charger.. It just screams for something much more crude..


Ya know...

37828

moparman76_69
02-27-2012, 10:06 PM
Is that a $2013 budget cap? If so then it would rock. I'm sure you can find a color close that is an affordable price. The subie wrx blue seems to be close.

vipernbox
02-28-2012, 02:11 AM
Yep... I ain't sure I am going to make it.. I have a seasonal business which starts to get REALLY busy that time of year.. but the car is going to be built so it could go.. just because...


Did a bit of work tonight on the wheelhouses.. I am even going to be able to use the plastic inner fenders from the omni... :)


Should have a collection of pix starting real soon.

phoebegoesvroom
02-28-2012, 09:27 AM
As much as I like those late '70s widebody styles, I think it would be best to keep the car period-correct.

vipernbox
02-28-2012, 09:41 AM
It isn't like a google search for '1985 widebody' is going to return zero results.. ;)


37837


One of the things I am up against here.. My rear flare I think looks pretty good for most angles.. But then I had the car on the lift.. and viewed from that direction. It just looks less than complete.. The lines don't blend perfectly. So... I think I have a solution.. just stumbling a bit to steer a bit more Miami Vice.. Or keep a foot in the 70's.. The Charger body always appealed to me because I like the very Wacky end of the Late 70's styling..... Just from a 'its to ugly not to love' standpoint.

phoebegoesvroom
02-28-2012, 09:54 AM
The Charger body always appealed to me because I like the very Wacky end of the Late 70's styling..... Just from a 'its to ugly not to love' standpoint.

I feel the same way. Although our cars are from the 80s, it's a 70s design. You could get creative and mix both...

86seeS
02-28-2012, 11:40 AM
I really like the idea of the gt350 sail panel idea should be sweet

vipernbox
02-28-2012, 11:46 AM
I really like the idea of the gt350 sail panel idea should be sweet

I was looking at this last night.. I am thinking the Hatch needs to go on a serious diet.. Plexi could be made to be the moveable part.. Then the hatch could be completely skinned and welded seamlessly in place. But then.. What to do about the rain gutters? Should they stay or go.. Really that becomes a 70's vs 80's styling thing huh?


I think the Shadow ES I have outside is going to donate a spoiler to the cause.. I think I can make that work with the hatch fixed in place. :) just need to make sure I want to weld the hatch shut.

Or even worse.. Try a Rampage back glass out? Again.. That would end up falling somewhere b/t the 80's and a 68 Charger..

invision
03-07-2012, 10:48 AM
Ok.. I am just going to put this here so I don't lose it..

http://www.facebook.com/iNVisionPrototypes

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=4281&page=3


http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g381/invisionprototypes2/R2/Body/INVR2-BodyFabrication602.jpg

Hey Hey Ron! That build photo there looks very familiar :p

Had a few minutes the other night and did a search for 'mid-engine charger'. Guess what came up?

Your build looks great! Really on a roll, so to speak.. hehe The hardest stuff is behind you and shouldn't be too much longer before you get this ride wrapped up. Was just wondering what you're doing for a fuel tank/location and about pre-tensioning the front wheel bearings...since you don't need axle stubs there anymore. Maybe I missed something while I was reading.

Best of luck! :)

__________________
Nick M.

A journey in design and fabrication begins with a vision, a single pen stroke ... and in some cases the blow of a hammer.

Some projects: http://www.facebook.com/iNVisionPrototypes

vipernbox
03-07-2012, 12:32 PM
"really on a roll"

:)

Now that is funny right there.. I just have been to busy working on the tools and the shop to get anything done on the car..

Thanks for dropping in Invision.. Glad to see you here.. anyone with any interest in metalworking really needs to check out what this guy does in his spare time.. simply awesome..


Front wheel bearing problem is simple.. In fact anytime a FWD car gets moved around the house here without axles this solution is used.. I have plenty of old axle cores around... Ya simply liberate the axle stub from the axle.. clean the guts out and bolt it up like normal. nothing to it..


As far as the fuel tank.. I have not really decided. A temporary solution is probably going to be a fuel cell in the front.. but I have been thinking about reworking the tunnel and building a tank to mount in the center of the car. I have thought about using a Fiero or MR2 tank just to keep things simple.. but yeah.. The question here is polar moment stuff.. I don't don't just how readily I want the car to rotate.. My front/rear weight distribution should be in the ballpark no matter what.. So I just need to figure out how close to the polar moment I want the heaviest stuff... :)


But most of all I just need to get to work on the damn thing... I was on the hunt for a new welder.. Then decided I 'needed' a plasma cutter.. Ended up finding a steal on CL.. and drug home a decent old welder, plasma cutter.. and a nice old Sioux valve facing machine.. So instead of playing with the car.. I have been playing with tools... Geez...

Oh... and with a irresistable coupon I drug home a horrible freight bead roller.. So now I 'must' use all my new toys and modify the HF tool so it will work properly... which is going to include powering it up with parts from an old Stair/chair lift that has been laying around here way to long... ;) and of course then making some tipping dies.. and the rest of it...


Oh.. and all this on top of a powder coating setup...


Geez...

Ya know.. if I put half the money and effort I spend buying and fixing up tools to build nice cars into actually building a nice car.. I could probably have a nice car huh?

;)

BIGBRUDDA
03-09-2012, 01:06 AM
I was looking at this last night.. I am thinking the Hatch needs to go on a serious diet.. Plexi could be made to be the moveable part..

Ya really wanna put a LARGE piece of plexi directly over a turbo engine bay?

vipernbox
03-09-2012, 01:20 AM
There will be a 'hood' over the engine... before the plexi.. All part of the trunk which will go behind the engine..

vipernbox
03-11-2012, 01:37 AM
Alright.. SO I harvested some parts today... and did some thinking... :)



Not sure exactly where the gas door is going yet.... But here we have the rear quarter panel wheel arches.. This to make the front fenders match the rear...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNTgtMjAxMjAzMTAtMTA0NS5qcGc.jpg





Then I found one of these...


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNTctMjAxMjAzMTAtMTAzMS5qcGc.jpg




And seeing it sit there.. Well it made me think of something I saw at the auto show the other night...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNTMtMjAxMjAzMDktMTgxOC5qcGc.jpg






And I think I can make it work...



(test fitting in the GLHS just for kicks..)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAxODctMjAxMjAzMTAtMTMxOS5qcGc.jpg






And I want to use the Shadow ES spoiler anyway... :)


yeah... I can make this work ;)

Reaper1
03-11-2012, 02:15 AM
That kinda reminds me of a Fiero GT. Not a bad thing, mind you. ;)

minigts
03-11-2012, 02:32 AM
It isn't like a google search for '1985 widebody' is going to return zero results.. ;)


37837


One of the things I am up against here.. My rear flare I think looks pretty good for most angles.. But then I had the car on the lift.. and viewed from that direction. It just looks less than complete.. The lines don't blend perfectly. So... I think I have a solution.. just stumbling a bit to steer a bit more Miami Vice.. Or keep a foot in the 70's.. The Charger body always appealed to me because I like the very Wacky end of the Late 70's styling..... Just from a 'its to ugly not to love' standpoint.

That's the Koenig Competition Testarossa isn't it? It's like a supercharged turbo flat 12 right? That was my favorite car until the F40 was sold in like 1992 or 90? I built a model of that car, LOVED it.

vipernbox
03-11-2012, 02:50 AM
That kinda reminds me of a Fiero GT. Not a bad thing, mind you. ;)

fiero... shhheezz... I see Pantera.. (hehehe)



I'll build me a De Tomaso 024 like it should have been done.. :lol:

phoebegoesvroom
03-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Interesting! So you're going to ditch the hatch entirely? Is that Omni hatch glass you're using?

vipernbox
03-11-2012, 01:58 PM
Interesting! So you're going to ditch the hatch entirely? Is that Omni hatch glass you're using?

Yep.. Omni hatch glass... Cutting and bending the Omni hatch steel should make using the glass pretty simple.. And I think it will help out the look quite a bit. I had really toyed with the idea of using a rampage glass.. But it just makes thing weird.. With this.. I think I can siill pull of the GT350/500 style sail panel side scoops ... Maybe even sorta folding them in a bit to help create a 'bigger' looking quarter panel....


It is either this nutty idea... Or just hanging some Charger louvers on the hatch.. Then building a hood below that.. I think this takes it to the next level.. So what the hell.. right?

fishcleaner
03-11-2012, 11:25 PM
I like the sail panels, sorta like the '68 Charger, go for it. Maybe a windshield from a VW bug would fit better

vipernbox
03-14-2012, 10:09 AM
Just using my thread to bookmark some pictures..


381243812538126

Reaper1
03-14-2012, 11:42 PM
That's an OLD Esprit!! Looks nice, though!

vipernbox
03-15-2012, 12:03 AM
Yep... I ain't sure if I am just afraid to make the cuts I want to make or what.. But still looking for some inspiration.. Ya know.. Just trying to pick the right color lipstick for this pig. :)


I must build a strut tower bar like this one.

38155


And then trying to decide b/t the lotus look.. with the full hatch.. or maybe a double rear window like the early lotus.. Or this..

3815638157



And I promise.. It won't be long before I post pictures of my car in my thread instead of just putting the pictures I should be printing here in the thread so I can find them :lol:

86seeS
03-15-2012, 12:55 AM
I like the look of the red esprit better

---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Look at a ferrari 288 gto hatch

moparman76_69
03-15-2012, 07:20 AM
pantera ftmfw.

vipernbox
03-15-2012, 09:38 AM
I like the look of the red esprit better

---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Look at a ferrari 288 gto hatch

See you are not helping ;) You say you like the look of the 79 Esprit better... But then you suggest this..

3815838159

Which for my purposes is the sail panels of the lotus with the deck lid of the pantera

Remember I am starting with this..

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/Blackberrydownload2-24-2011447.jpg




But b/t looking at the Lotus and the 288 gto I think I have it figured out.. Now I just have to do it.. Gota get that dang GLHS out of the way... I know.. rough problems I have.. :o




Oh.. but then again maybe I will figure out how to do this.. :lol: (making it mid engine creates problems working on the engine when installed..)


38160

Yeah right... But at least if I end up with two back windows I won't feel like I am cutting corners.. :amen:

38161



See.. I could just use the set of Charger louvers I have.. And simply install a flat glass.. Like a rampage window .. almost where a rampage window would fit in a charger body.. Then I almost have an F40.. Almost.. :lol:

Reaper1
03-15-2012, 07:05 PM
DRRROOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL!!!! I LOVE the F40. It is by far my most favorite Ferrari....ok, pretty much the ONLY Ferrari I'd even want in the terms of what is financially reachable by people with "real" jobs.

GLHNSLHT2
03-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Lotus Esprit or F40 look is my vote. Don't Pantera it. You don't have the Fenders for that.

vipernbox
03-16-2012, 09:58 AM
Lotus Esprit or F40 look is my vote. Don't Pantera it. You don't have the Fenders for that.

Ok.. But just to make sure you are tracking here..

Lotus'ing it means basically doing very little.. Losing the rain gutters, molding a side scoop.. and covering the engine.. leaving the charger glass/rear alone.

Pantera'ing means basically all of the above except for losing the charger glass and building a hood to cover the engine.

F40 look is the same as the lotus except for losing the engine cover and using louvers instead of a back window.


And the final option is using the omni glass.. doing a double back glass.. with short trunk.. Basically building a shadow/sundance hatch inside the lines of the charger sail panel..

GLHNSLHT2
03-17-2012, 01:27 AM
Stand by what I said, Lotus or F40, prefer the lotus look.

zin
03-17-2012, 01:31 AM
I'll toss this into the mix: Something to consider will be heat from the engine; doing the Lotus/sail panels with louvers would be a good way to create a low pressure area on top of the engine, which should provide good ventilation.

I would think a vertical back window would be easier to fabricate as well as easier to see out of.

Oh, and I think it would look cool too!

Mike

black86glhs
03-17-2012, 08:56 PM
What about the verticle rear window and the charger louvers? Obviously you will still have a flat deck under the louvers, but it would combine some styling cues from several cars.

vipernbox
03-18-2012, 01:45 AM
I think I got this.. I just need to balance what i want to do with how much work it will be.. Heck.. I really think I need to chop the top.. but i am trying hard to talk myself out of it...


But I did play around tonight with a Shadow Spoiler.. This will work for sure..


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzgtMjAxMjAzMTctMjMwMy5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyMzktMjAxMjAzMTctMjMwNC5qcGc.jpg

86seeS
03-18-2012, 11:51 PM
Looks good I like it

vipernbox
03-19-2012, 12:53 PM
38423
38424

vipernbox
03-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Ok.. SO enough sitting around looking at pictures.. Time to cut some stuff up.. Think I will start with the GLHS so I don't mess up the good car.. :lol:



Stock first of course..



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNjctMjAxMjAzMTktMTQxMy5qcGc.jpg


Then who knows.. Leave the windshield frame alone and lay it back seems like the best idea. Cutting the windshield down and leaving the angle the same works on hot rods much better.. but one this.. I think this is easier.. and looks better. Cutting the glass isn't a huge deal.. But I think it makes the top of the window frame to long...

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNjktMjAxMjAzMTktMTQyMi5qcGc.jpg


Playing with the back a bit..

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNzAtMjAxMjAzMTktMTQyMy5qcGc.jpg


And a bit more..

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyNzMtMjAxMjAzMTktMTUxMy5qcGc.jpg




I have a couple of the Shelby Charger plastic models.. Maybe I need to cut one of those up first.. :)

vipernbox
03-19-2012, 08:46 PM
Windshield will lay back nicely.. Section the roof at the front to take up the gap.. B pillar is easy.. It drops straight down.. No problems at all there.. The hatch will come forward in the same manner. This is going to be good...

I practiced on this.. while measuring up the car at the same time... practice Pix later.. :) the ones I sent to my email had to many top secret details in them... :lol:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyODEtMjAxMjAzMTktMTYyMy5qcGc-1.jpg





I just need to make a couple more small decisions and then surgery will seriously commence.. This is going to be FUN...





Oh.. and I didn't like the way the top of my rear fender flare looked.. I didn't know I didn't like it until I had the car up on the lift looking at it from below.. The lines looked good from up high, but fell short of the look I am hoping to achieve from a ground up view..


So a bit more playing around.


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyODgtMjAxMjAzMTktMTc1NC5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyODUtMjAxMjAzMTktMTc1MS5qcGc.jpg\





In case you don't remember.. this is where I had left that.


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/016-1.jpg

Reaper1
03-19-2012, 08:50 PM
I dunno. I don't like the chopped top. It's unique for sure, but it just doesn't fit the character of the car IMHO.

vipernbox
03-19-2012, 09:52 PM
Ok... Look at it this way... Notably the roof sloping VERY slightly backwards..


Start here...

38428

go here...

38429

38430

86seeS
03-19-2012, 10:12 PM
I dunno. I don't like the chopped top. It's unique for sure, but it just doesn't fit the character of the car IMHO.

I agree dont look bad but dont fit the car

wheming
03-19-2012, 10:14 PM
Oh!
I see now!
You're trying to turn it into a Daytona???
:D



my android sent this for me using Tapatalk...

vipernbox
03-20-2012, 01:00 AM
Just trust me.. I may not chop the top.. But with the quarters flared and the rest of it.. The damned top is just about 2 inches to tall.. I may not do it simply because of the extra work.. yet I may do it because I like the work.. :) Look closely at this first picture.. The proportions are just off..

Also.. Chopping the top would allow me to move the back of the quarter glass forward while keeping things in proportion.. It would also shorten the roof skin making the back window not quite as deep... As it sits right now running the back window right about the back of the quarter glass puts the back window just about even with the front of the valve cover... Now of course I am going to make some way to make the engine accessible from inside the car, but having that window just a bit further forward would make life so much easier..

Oh.. and I could add T-tops while chopping it.. :)




Also.. Something I am thinking about.. Most of this extra bodywork in the hatch area could be attached to the existing hatch.. And then with the omni glass as it is in one of the pictures below I could omit an engine cover.. and do a bunch of those cool lights like the wraith... I just need to make sure I don't outsmart myself on this one.. :lol:



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzMDEtMjAxMjAzMTktMjMwMy5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzMDItMjAxMjAzMTktMjMwNC5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAyOTgtMjAxMjAzMTktMjMwMS5qcGc.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzMDQtMjAxMjAzMTktMjMyNi5qcGc.jpg

shelbymonster
03-20-2012, 07:53 AM
a smaller back window with less angle in the back would look 10 times better , i love your project !

vipernbox
03-20-2012, 09:16 AM
a smaller back window with less angle in the back would look 10 times better , i love your project !

Ya see.. He thinks I should chop top this thing . :lol:




(or are you talking about the omni glass that is laying back there? that is just a test.. Thinking the only window is going to be installed on the front piece of cardboard.)

moparman76_69
03-20-2012, 11:45 AM
I say go F40 style, use the rampage glass and build a divider for the engine compartment and then put the charger louvers on with no glass in the hatch. If you want storage space build a compartment under the hood. I don't know how great it would be aerodynamically speaking but it would be IMO the easiest option and the better looking.

Turbo224
03-20-2012, 01:03 PM
a smaller back window with less angle in the back would look 10 times better , i love your project !

Agreed, but it's going to look awesome no matter what!

vipernbox
03-20-2012, 01:16 PM
Just some stuff I won't be needing at the front of the car anymore...

You had to see this coming right... :)

(trying to decide b/t the charger bulge or the daytona bulge.. Or twin daytona bulges with the vents on the bulge.. :) )


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid%20Engine%20Charger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzMTAtMjAxMjAzMjAtMTIxMS5qcGc.jpg

WVRampage
03-20-2012, 09:32 PM
Looking good cant wait to see this thing finished

SebringLX
03-21-2012, 03:50 PM
I vote for twin bulges with vents on bulges. :D

phoebegoesvroom
03-21-2012, 04:12 PM
I really like that last photo a lot. I'd look for a different rear glass to use instead of the Omni's. As someone else suggested, perhaps the Rampage glass. Also, I really don't think chopping the roof is necessary, but hey it's your project! I could never dream of attempting something like this myself.

vipernbox
03-21-2012, 04:26 PM
I am pretty sure the last picture, or something close to that is how it is going to end up... I pulled a daytona hood out and the bulge is near 18 inches wide, a bit to big for the space as I have around 37 inches give or take a couple depending on how things get blended together..

and with The last picture the Omni glass isn't a factor. The window will be something along the lines of what is outlined on the forward most piece of cardboard in sharpie. flat glass is easy...


The top is coming down... It just needs to.. I have been thinking about it a lot.. Playing with the models.. checking out the car.. I need to make a couple more decisions about how and where to cut to make it come back together nice... and have the right lines..

and trust me.. I have been trying to talk myself out of it.. I just can't.. Somewhere b/t a 2-2 1/2 chop will be perfect..

Maybe I will just move to the hood in the front for a couple days and think about it some more... But even looking at the GLHS sitting outside the window here I keep thinking the mid engine car just might be a practice chop... :confused: :D:D

Reaper1
03-21-2012, 08:12 PM
The plastic model you did makes it kinda look like an early '80's GM J2000 or something. It just doesn't look quite right to me.

vipernbox
03-22-2012, 10:54 AM
The plastic model you did makes it kinda look like an early '80's GM J2000 or something. It just doesn't look quite right to me.

I think just because it is missing the sail panels on the C pillar.

Turbo224
03-22-2012, 03:59 PM
You sure you will be able to fit in the car once you chop the top?

vipernbox
03-22-2012, 04:36 PM
:lol:

this will make the chop naysayers roll their eyes just a little bit further back....



I am 6' 5" .. I dont even fit with the top at stock hieght in a sunroof charger..

So the seat has to go down anyway...

:)

Reaper1
03-22-2012, 07:54 PM
ROTFLMAO! I was actually thinking about the fitment of a human in the car after the modifications, I just never mentioned it. You're going to have to sit on the floor! Or put a bubble in the roof so the car looks like it came out of Harry and the Hendersons! LOL :lol:

vipernbox
03-22-2012, 08:56 PM
:lol:

I could always lower the floor..



Or...


Gurney Bubble..




38488






Or..


Daytona t top roof.. :)





and one more thing.. My dad at the autoshow checking out the FIat 500..

:lol:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/utf-8BSU1HMDAxNTUtMjAxMjAzMDktMTkxNi5qcGc.jpg

Turbo224
03-23-2012, 01:27 PM
How about the Viper double bubble roof?

vipernbox
06-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Good Greif... It is happening again...


http://youtu.be/DCWsDQBb_oc

2.216VTurbo
06-14-2012, 01:57 PM
Out playing instead of working on the Charger eh:confused:Meh, cant say that I blame you, looks like fun:thumb: Hurry, still a week to finish before SDAC:lol:

ATaylorRacing
06-17-2012, 11:30 AM
Your next project will be to put a mid engine V8 in a fwd L body....kind of like what the new owner of Four Play did back in 1985....had a stock truck 440 in the middle, stock automatic with FMVB, zoomie headers sticking out where the rear tires/wheels used to be, and a 9" Ford rear end behind the car! Of course, the car was a VERY rare 81 Plymouth Euro sedan! The new owner kept the 2.2 with 4 speed stick up front, using it to drive the car to and from the track....he used a tiny driveshaft after he got to the track to hook up to the rear. He built the car to run 12.0s, the bottom of Pro bracket back then.

4014140142

vipernbox
02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
Ok... I know this doesn't look like progress.. But the parts car charger is finally in the shop ready to be a test dummy for the chop top part of the project.. and this daytone is in the shop to become an organ donor to keep many projects around the shop alive...

Most importantly to this project though it is donating the t-top parts.. The ttop roof section is dimensionally smaller than the charger roof. This makes that portion of the chop quite easy. Plus I get ttops out of the deal.. I LOVE ttops..

Yeah.. I know.. it isn't going to stiffen up the car nor make it any lighter. I know.. but what good is blasting down country roads if you can't have the wind in your hair and sun in your face.


Pictures for reference.


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid Engine Charger/IMAG0895.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid Engine Charger/IMAG0891.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid Engine Charger/IMAG0894.jpghttp://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid Engine Charger/IMAG0897.jpg

Reaper1
02-17-2013, 02:13 PM
but what good is blasting down country roads if you can't have the wind in your hair and sun in your face.


That's what motorcycles are for! :thumb:

Oh, and don't you just LOVE how T-top cars are complete hack jobs!?

vipernbox
02-17-2013, 03:22 PM
Oh, and don't you just LOVE how T-top cars are complete hack jobs!?

Complete hack jobs.. Riveted and glued together.

moparman76_69
02-17-2013, 06:09 PM
I like how your "parts car charger" is a daytona.

vipernbox
02-17-2013, 06:27 PM
On one side of the Daytona is the 87 GLHS.. and off to the other is an 85 Shelby charger. The dune buggy and the mid engine car are buried in the back of the shop.

2.216VTurbo
02-17-2013, 11:37 PM
You know at this point a post after almost a year in your build thread *is* progress in itself:lol: Sometimes projects are sooo back burner you don't even think about them:( Start thinking about them again and things start to happen:)

vipernbox
02-19-2013, 12:53 AM
And another one bites the dust. Still need to pull those wheels and cut the gas tank... But there it is.. note the tops of the fenders are gone.. I found a perfect place to use that shape. :)


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/Mid Engine Charger/IMAG0899.jpg

RoadWarrior222
02-19-2013, 04:59 PM
Sometimes projects are sooo back burner you don't even think about themI have projects like that, so stealth I can't remember where I put anything for them, and so deep black, that even I don't know where the money is gonna come from. I think I must hit myself with the flashy thing every so often, so I don't accidentally talk about it in my sleep, 'coz sometimes I'll search my own threads and be all "Holy frack, I forgot about that!"

vipernbox
02-19-2013, 06:29 PM
:amen:


I have the worst automotive ADD... What has kicked all this into gear again... I want to start another project.. :lol: I want to build a Tornado Catamaran using cedar strip construction... The kicker here is I promised myself I wasn't going to start until the major project around here are done.

Right now the newest project :D the Spirit R/T is up on the lift. It is getting all new shocks/struts, brakes, vac system, headliner, deep cleaning, suspension bushings, ect...

After that comes the 87 GLHS. It needs a powerplant.. I have options..

Then the 89 turbo van (Rudolph 1 seen in the background above) gets an engine.. Or it gets the engine currently in the 5 spd van and the 5spd van gets a built engine.

Somewhere in there the dune buggy gets put back together.. I have pretty much all the parts.. And thinking it is going to get the VNT engine... Just gota screw it together.


Then the Mid engine car...


And even worse.. the first big hobie regatta of the year for our area is April 27-28... and I am running it. Oh yeah.. three kids.. a wife.. Running my own remodeling bizz...

But 2013 is my year.. This stuff is going to get done! If anything on the above list interests anyone.. it is all for sale! :lol:

RoadWarrior222
02-19-2013, 07:00 PM
Well that clarifies, it, you definitely have a catamaran problem, everything else seems normal. :D

Bardo
02-04-2014, 03:08 AM
So what happened to this?

vipernbox
02-04-2014, 10:00 AM
I don't really want to talk about it... :confused:


The Sailing habit keeps getting worse... The Spirit R/T is knocking, Two Turbo Vans to keep running, a Dune buggy which ain't done, projects around the house, a successful business to run, three kids, wife.... Ect ect ect ect....


honestly the Maserati engine ended up in one of the turbo vans because I figured it would take less time to swing it in there than to build an engine..


So... I just bought a 2013 Hobie 16... Sailing season starts late April... and from May through september I have an event almost every weekend..

The Dune buggy (sand rail with a VNT engine) simply must get done.. Then I need to tinker with the Masi van, and the Spirit needs an engine.. and there are a few boat projects to be done...


So yeah... Uhhhhhh....

Turbo224
02-04-2014, 11:30 AM
Im glad you're getting back to this project, it's one of my favorites!

zin
02-04-2014, 12:24 PM
A wise man once told me, "you can't eat a whole cow in one sitting, but you can, one steak at a time! ".

It's a worthy project, I hope to see a few "steaks disappear from the freezer " this year!

Mike

DetroitTurbo
02-04-2014, 12:52 PM
Hey man, cool project. Hope you have the chance to make some progress on it. The masi van sounds cool also. I've seen a few sand rails with 2.2 turbos, pretty cool!

5DIGITS
02-04-2014, 09:31 PM
Love it !
Very Cool Indeed !!!

Turbo224
05-01-2015, 12:48 PM
Any update on this thing?

ucku
09-03-2015, 05:41 PM
did u ever finish the glhs charger

2.216VTurbo
09-04-2015, 04:18 PM
ViperNBox last activity 3-20-15:(