Wastegate control

[DodgeZ]

Anyone have tips on adjusting this?

[Force Fed Mopar]

x2 :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

+3, I don't know anything about using the new cals and MPtuner yet but I'd like to know how to go from T1 to T2 boost control setups.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Setting the boost goal is easy, you go to Boost Target group and set all the "BoostAllowedFrom......" tables to what you want.

My problem is that the wastegate controls aren't working properly. On my one cal that Kevin initially built for me, it works at part throttle but at WOT the boost wavers up and down about 2-3 psi around the boost goal that I set. On the tune that I built today (basically a V10 A171 cal scaled for my injectors and map) it doesn't work at part throttle either, supposed to be 7 psi at part throttle and it goes up past 10. WOT is supposed to be limited to 12.66, and it just smokes right past 15 and hits the overboost cutout.

[x.Gen]

My problem is that the wastegate controls aren't working properly. On my one cal that Kevin initially built for me, it works at part throttle but at WOT the boost wavers up and down about 2-3 psi around the boost goal that I set...

you need to adjust wastegate duty cycle for this...I'm still focused on LM and my personal tunes (I don't use Turbonator), so I'm no expert...you guys are all on the (later) bleed-type setup, I'm guessing. if I remember - more duty cycle = more boost. I'd start with Kevin's tune first - the WOT boost wander is caused by that; fine tune the table for wastegate DC and you should be good. not sure about the part throttle one.

[Force Fed Mopar]

you need to adjust wastegate duty cycle for this...I'm still focused on LM and my personal tunes (I don't use Turbonator), so I'm no expert...you guys are all on the (later) bleed-type setup, I'm guessing. if I remember - more duty cycle = more boost. I'd start with Kevin's tune first - the WOT boost wander is caused by that; fine tune the table for wastegate DC and you should be good. not sure about the part throttle one.

Which way do you go on the duty cycle though? More? Less?

BTW me and Kevin are both on 87 LM cars.

[shackwrrr]

A quick look at V10 turbonator and it is not set up as a bleed type, Meaning more duty cycle = Less boost. Do you have your vac lines set up like that, with the line going strait from the manifold to the solenoid back to the turbo?

Hysteresisforboostincreasingcondition Take that up to 2 or 3, Right now it is at 0 and that could cause some weirdness.

[ShelGame]

Turbonator LM is setup the same as the stock T2 boost control. T-SMEC and SBEC are based on the T1 style boost control, but have a table I added to keep the DC at 100% until you get near the boost target. I'll finish up my boost control write up for the Turbonator Tuners guide this week...

[GLHNSLHT2]

On my 2.5 I'm using Rob's old T1 based cals. I'm running a grainger because when I hook up the boost control I either get 7psi, or watch the needle fly by 20psi and climbing before I can back out of it. I'd sure like to know how to change it over to T2 style and tune it.

On my 2.2 I'm using a stock 89 T2 cal but since I have a .63 housing and the WG hole is ported the boost flutters around at WOT when hooked up like stock. When I had a stock turbo on it the boost was rock solid at 14.5psi using the ECU which was really awesome. I'd like to have that control back.

[x.Gen]

On my 2.5 I'm using Rob's old T1 based cals. I'm running a grainger because when I hook up the boost control I either get 7psi, or watch the needle fly by 20psi and climbing before I can back out of it. I'd sure like to know how to change it over to T2 style and tune it.

I think a bigger restrictor should resolve that.



On my 2.2 I'm using a stock 89 T2 cal but since I have a .63 housing and the WG hole is ported the boost flutters around at WOT when hooked up like stock. When I had a stock turbo on it the boost was rock solid at 14.5psi using the ECU which was really awesome. I'd like to have that control back.

I have to defer to Rob on any of his cal's...I'm only going off what I read before I decided to stick to my own tuning, and my experience. the ported WG hole will change the behavior and you'll need to tune the WG DC accordingly. I think it will be difficult to get it right without datalogging (if you aren't yet). remember on the T2 it is the opposite of the bleed-type: less duty cycle = more boost. I'd look for datalogs with the wander and isolate that part of the curve - more DC where it is jumping, less DC where it is dropping. I'm guessing it would be difficult to smooth this to perfection without logging.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Yeah my wastegate hole is ported also.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I think a bigger restrictor should resolve that.



I have to defer to Rob on any of his cal's...I'm only going off what I read before I decided to stick to my own tuning, and my experience. the ported WG hole will change the behavior and you'll need to tune the WG DC accordingly. I think it will be difficult to get it right without datalogging (if you aren't yet). remember on the T2 it is the opposite of the bleed-type: less duty cycle = more boost. I'd look for datalogs with the wander and isolate that part of the curve - more DC where it is jumping, less DC where it is dropping. I'm guessing it would be difficult to smooth this to perfection without logging.


I've tried all the restrictors and no restrictors.

Thanks for the other tips.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Hysteresisforboostincreasingcondition Take that up to 2 or 3, Right now it is at 0 and that could cause some weirdness.

WTF is Hysteresis anyway? Sounds like something you wouldn't want to catch :O

[x.Gen]

ironic and true - lag. who wants that? :D

[shackwrrr]

WTF is Hysteresis anyway? Sounds like something you wouldn't want to catch :O

Its the gap between when the computer wants to open the wastegate and when it wants to close it. Say boost goal is 15 psi, Computer needs to open the wastegate wide open at 15 but with the hysteresis at 0, the second the boost falls below 15 it closes the wastegate. So that is where the varying boost is coming from.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Ok got it. I just burned a cal w/ the hysteresis set to 3 and put it in the car, so we'll see if it makes a difference tomorrow on my way to work :)

[Force Fed Mopar]

Didn't help :( still won't hold steady WOT boost, still overboosting.

[ShelGame]

You really need to datalog and see where the WG Duty Cycle is and where it's going when the boost is too high/low. It took me a bit of tuning to get the WG control to hold 19psi on a stock Mitsu.

[x.Gen]

in which cal - Kevin's, or the one you did? sounded like Kevin's was closer, and wasn't hitting overboost from your earlier post. would probably be less effort to get that one right. you're running 3-bar? compare both wastegate DC maps and see what's there.

[x.Gen]

You really need to datalog and see where the WG Duty Cycle is and where it's going when the boost is too high/low.

like I said (twice :nod: )...not one of those you can eye-ball into perfect in just a couple of runs.

[risen]

IDK if anyone else is using it or not, but I believe I took the wg duty cycle table in my csx from BB60. I don't think it's the same as stock but it's been a while since I looked at it. I will say that my car has been good @ 20 psi, and everything other than the cal and fuel system is stock. It might be worth a try for you 87 T2 setup guys.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I don't have a way to datalog at the moment, I suppose I'll have to make/buy a datalogger soon. Also, I am really suspecting I have solenoid issues also, so I'm going to replace it as well.

[x.Gen]

...I am really suspecting I have solenoid issues also, so I'm going to replace it as well.

I thought this once a couple years back...did some reading, solenoids are a lot tougher than you think (I won't say they never go). I'm still running the same solenoid, which was good despite my thoughts at the time. it wouldn't work for Kevin's cal either if the solenoid was shot.

since you can't datalog - double check the wastegate DC table like I recommended. my guess is (if you are running 3-bar like your sig says) that you are running a 2-bar DC table in the cal that is overboosting; if you compare the two, you could see where the values relate. 3-bar values use similar DC at lower boost than a 2-bar - meaning if you ran a 3-bar map on a 2-bar DC table, it will result in higher boost than you expect. depending on where you are in the curve, the difference seems to be 3 psi or more (on the table). that's what makes me think you have the DC tables swapped (in your cal, not Kevin's).

you would still need to correct the DC for the ported WG, but that's an issue you should only experience at higher boost, when the puck swings further away. I'd take wandering boost to hitting overboost any day.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I'll check it. I am running a 3-bar map, all the mods in my sig are current. I did have a tps plug issue which I fixed (hopefully for good) today. Not sure if that may have had something to do with it, maybe if it was going in and out of WOT and part-throttle.

[DodgeZ]

Also you have to shim your wastegate to get it to run 15psi which is what it should do stock. In my tune I didn't do anything to the wastegate tables.

[x.Gen]

Also you have to shim your wastegate to get it to run 15psi which is what it should do stock. In my tune I didn't do anything to the wastegate tables.

if it was based on BB or T-LM, I'm pretty sure DCWOT should be set for 3-bar if the cal was scaled for it. otherwise, your cal would hit overboost also (I would think). not sure what Rob (M.) did, thought I'd bring it up just in case, give him a place to start.

[DodgeZ]

Sorry the only wastegate change was to change the overboost limit. It was T-LM v10.2

[Force Fed Mopar]

I scaled for 3 bar. It seemed better this afternoon, so maybe the tps had something to do with it. I do need to swap the wastegate actuator too.

[x.Gen]

should have thought of that, didn't know how close you were to stock...when my small actuator started to go, I was getting inconsistent boost (on the same cal), and when it did this was completely random - until it gave up. I put a big can in and had no more issues. I'd do that before considering the solenoid in the least.

[Force Fed Mopar]

should have thought of that, didn't know how close you were to stock...when my small actuator started to go, I was getting inconsistent boost (on the same cal), and when it did this was completely random - until it gave up. I put a big can in and had no more issues. I'd do that before considering the solenoid in the least.

That interesting to know, I've never actually see one go bad. I'll get it swap out asap then.

[x.Gen]

yeah, I was kind of surprised when it went, but I guess it makes sense...if it can't withstand higher pressures, than it seems likely it would fail sooner than a big can with a more substantial diaphram. when mine went, first it would only hit max boost occasionally, eventually it would only reach 5-7 psi, and then finally only a couple psi if any (even after shimming it when I realized what was happenning). it leaves me wondering on your setup (since you can still hit high boost), but with everything else you have on there you should dot the i's & cross the t's. no point in running a 3-bar setup on a small can. I'm sure you'll still need to correct DCWOT because of the ported gate in either event...maybe just shim it while you're putting together a datalog setup :D

[Force Fed Mopar]

Yeah, my thought was that if it hold 20 psi shimmed, what's the difference between it and a big can. But, maybe the diaphragm leaks or something.

[shelbymonster]

i have kind of same problems with the wg solenoid , does not hold boost normaly , but if i hook the wg to the intake to the same vac source than the solenoid ,the boost is perfect , that turbo and wg can did hold more than 30 psi last summer

[Force Fed Mopar]

Yeah, I think my can will hold steady boost if I hook it straight to the intake, I may try it on the way home tonight.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Update: Just burned a new cal using the newest T-LMv12 and boost control seems to be working now :confused:

[DodgeZ]

Update: Just burned a new cal using the newest T-LMv12 and boost control seems to be working now :confused:

that good. maybe I'll give it a shot. Mine just pegs the boost gauge. LOL

[roachjuice]

that good. maybe I'll give it a shot. Mine just pegs the boost gauge. LOLx2. i tried computer controlled boost before and was never successful. boost just went waaaaaaaaaaaayyyy up lol. manual boost controller thats in car seems to work pretty good.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Well, it's not working very well, but it is working. I still need to swap my can too, so... might try and get that done tomorrow.

[roachjuice]

Any update? I was thinking about trying computer controlled boost again.

[DodgeZ]

I got it some what working. I have 3 boost levels now with my flip chip. The boost level don't match what they should but I haven't messed with it much. Too many other things taking priority

[roachjuice]

what are you messing with and what boost?

[roachjuice]

Ok I hooked up the solenoid and I had a vacuum leak and it didn't work. Hooked it up like so. Vac/boost to the middle barb wastegate line hooked to top barb. Bottom open. That's how the stock 86 Glht is set up iirc.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Ok I hooked up the solenoid and I had a vacuum leak and it didn't work. Hooked it up like so. Vac/boost to the middle barb wastegate line hooked to top barb. Bottom open. That's how the stock 86 Glht is set up iirc.

Yeap, that's how they hook up.

[roachjuice]

Lol well the bottom port was leaking. I'm assuming the bleed port. So I put the mbc back on it and problem solved.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Hmm, maybe the problem on mine too ('87 Daytona is setup the same way). I haven't powered the solenoid up yet to see if it seals though. I know that if the solenoid is unplugged, that bottom port is open.

[roachjuice]

It's not unplugged. I don't mind the mbc.

[DodgeZ]

Hmm, maybe the problem on mine too ('87 Daytona is setup the same way). I haven't powered the solenoid up yet to see if it seals though. I know that if the solenoid is unplugged, that bottom port is open.

I am guessing your problem is your over shimmed WGA.....

[Force Fed Mopar]

Made some progress with this today, will report back once I've played with it some more and verify it.

[csomni]

Ok I hooked up the solenoid and I had a vacuum leak and it didn't work. Hooked it up like so. Vac/boost to the middle barb wastegate line hooked to top barb. Bottom open. That's how the stock 86 Glht is set up iirc.

had mine hooked up like that too. and it didnt work. the vac/booost has to go on the top and the wastegate on the middle one. bottom open . i went by the vac diagram

[Force Fed Mopar]

If your WOT boost is lower than you WOT boost target, you need to lower the WOT wastegate duty cycle, correct?

[x.Gen]

yes, less DC adds boost.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Is there anything that modifies the WOT duty cycle, besides the rpm?

[x.Gen]

:confused: WOT DC is baro only, isn't it?

[Force Fed Mopar]

I don't know :) But I do know that there are 3 tables at least that have to do w. the WOT DC:

FullThrottleDutyCycle
FullThrottleDutyCycleAdjusmentFromRPM
BoostMapOffsetForDCWOT

I know what the first does, fuzzy on the second and no idea what the third does. As far as I can tell, they are the only WOT DC tables, but maybe I'm missing something?

[Force Fed Mopar]

My boost is dropping in the upper revs, is this what the FullThrottleDutyCycleAdjusmentFromRPM table is for? It's a big drop, like 17psi down to 12-13 psi. Makes the engine feel flat in the upper revs, get a big spike at the shift, then as I ride the gear out it drops.

[tryingbe]

I'll finish up my boost control write up for the Turbonator Tuners guide this week...

Any update on this? Need some guidance on boost control.