How much of a difference will my turbo make from stock?

[Dave]

Cindy is sending me a T3/T04B, 50 trim, with a S2 wheel. I'm now using an '88 Garrett turbo, but the seals went bad on both compressor and turbine housings, so I needed a new one. I didn't go with the E housing b/c I don't want to deal with the pita of screwing with the water/oil lines and notching the head.

I'll upgrade to the E housing and maybe bigger compressor wheel once I go 2.4 this winter.

So what kind of numbers (track ET and hp) can I expect to gain on 20psi from the Garrett to the hybrid?

-Bryan

[John B]

I think you'll be OK with the turbo IF you upgrade your IC to deal with the elevated compressor outlet temps. The stock IC isn't going to cool it enough.

[Clay]

new bigger turbo wont make you faster.

the increased boost from a bigger turbo can.

just bolting a bigger turbo on will probably make you slower....... lottsa lag.

[Dave]

new bigger turbo wont make you faster.

the increased boost from a bigger turbo can.

just bolting a bigger turbo on will probably make you slower....... lottsa lag.

The way I see it, both wheels are bigger, especially the compressor wheel, larger wheel means less heat expansion. That is why I went faster from the mitsu. to the Garrett. Less restriction in the turbine housing and less heat expansion from the compressor.


I think you'll be OK with the turbo IF you upgrade your IC to deal with the elevated compressor outlet temps. The stock IC isn't going to cool it enough.

Not to sound like I'm knocking you down, but they will be lower.

If I suck at thermal physics let me know. I'm just curious as to how this wouldn't make me quicker.

Thanks guys. :)

[GLHSKEN]

Dave you are right. Temps will be lower due to better efficiency from the turbo...

And 25 PSi for a t-3/4 is not a lot.... It's comfortable. (going back to a different thread regarding hp on a stock head)... So 300+ whpo is attainable with a 2.5L with a stock head on a 2.5L... Seen it..

[John B]

From your post I was under the impression you were going to use a T3 compressor housing with that wheel. My mistake.:yuck:

[Dave]

So I just ran 13.869 at 94mph today with the Garrett at 21psi. Will the T3/T4 help me achieve maybe 13.5's? Is that asking too much?

[cordes]

You might end up running the same ET with a higher MPH due to the shift in the power band. However, going from a stock TII turbo to a hybrid is a big jump, so you could knock off a couple tenths for sure. Especially since you are running over 20PSI.

[Birddog]

Not trying to be an a$$ but it sounds like you have some braking issues that need to be addressed before a new turbo goes on!?!?:confused:

[Dave]

Not trying to be an a$$ but it sounds like you have some braking issues that need to be addressed before a new turbo goes on!?!?:confused:

haha yah. But the turbo is so bad now that it's puking oil into the i/c pipes and it's coming out the BOV, coating the firewall and brake booster.

I need to find some 11.25" slotted brakes. But I don't know where.

[unluckyty]

Bryan,

I went 12.9@105.8 the other day 1.96 st.with my t3t4e .63 stage 2. That was with out using the methanol injection. 21-23# max boost.

To me the car always mph good, consistently higher than stock for me with less effort.

Can't wait to hear what your times will be.

Greg

[Dave]

Bryan,

I went 12.9@105.8 the other day 1.96 st.with my t3t4e .63 stage 2. That was with out using the methanol injection. 21-23# max boost.

To me the car always mph good, consistently higher than stock for me with less effort.

Can't wait to hear what your times will be.

Greg

Finally, Greg! Congrats.

How's it spool for you?

[contraption22]

I strongly recommend AGAINST getting this turbo for three reasons:

1. In my testing, this turbo combination does not "spool" very well. I think mainly because the big compressor wheel is limited my the small compressor housing. Now, you may not notice this as much with a 2.5 as I did with a 2.2, but there are other factors....

2. The 50 trim wheel was designed with an E housing in mind, and the TII cover will significantly limit it's efficiency. (see the answer to #1)

3. You cannot simply upgrade the compressor housing on the turbo at a later date. You must buy both a new compressor housing AND a new backing plate... and to replace the backing plate, you must remove the compressor wheel from the shaft. Now since you had to do that, you really should have it re-balanced.... now you are at 75% of the cost of a brand new turbo. Doesn't make sense does it. It didn't to me either.

If you do a search on here and "that other website" you will find the results of some of my research on this combination, which i have nicknamed "the half-assed hybrid". Don't do it. Some have gone fast with it, but they would probably be going faster with a better combination too.

Think about it this way... unless you specially request it... the biggest compressor wheel that Turbonetics will put in a T3 compressor housing is a Super60 wheel. Do you think they DON'T know what they are doing??

I understand your concerns about fitment on the car, as it is pretty involved putting a true hybrid on a 8v motor.... but if you get one of ChrisW's Hybrid headers, it makes life MUCH MUCH easier. Is it cheap? No, but once you go to install it, you will realize it's worth every penny.

AND as I have learned.. it's so much cheaper to do it right the first time then to half---- it the first time and going back and fixing all the corners you cut at a later time. Do it right, do it once. Learn from my mistakes and it makes all the money and time i wasted seem more worthwile to me.

Of course before you do any kind of turbo upgrade, I would upgrade your intercooler. The stock intercooler is choking you, even with the stock turbo.

[contraption22]

haha yah. But the turbo is so bad now that it's puking oil into the i/c pipes and it's coming out the BOV, coating the firewall and brake booster.

I need to find some 11.25" slotted brakes. But I don't know where.

Don't worry about the slots, just get the bigger rotors. That will most likely take care of your problem.

[contraption22]

new bigger turbo wont make you faster.

the increased boost from a bigger turbo can.

just bolting a bigger turbo on will probably make you slower....... lottsa lag.


This isn't entirely true. A more efficient turbo will allow the engine to make more power at a given boost level.

A stock TII turbo on a 2.5 at 20psi will be out of it's compressor efficiency range, meaning the air comming out of the compressor housing will be alot hotter than it would be with a more efficient turbo.
The same would be true on the exhaust side, as the smaller stock turbine would create more backpressure than a larger turbine at the same boost level.

[Mario]

I strongly recommend AGAINST getting this turbo for three reasons:

1. In my testing, this turbo combination does not "spool" very well. I think mainly because the big compressor wheel is limited my the small compressor housing.

2. The 50 trim wheel was designed with an E housing in mind, and the TII cover will significantly limit it's efficiency. (see the answer to #1)

3. You cannot simply upgrade the compressor housing on the turbo at a later date. You must buy both a new compressor housing AND a new backing plate... and to replace the backing plate, you must remove the compressor wheel from the shaft. Now since you had to do that, you really should have it re-balanced.... now you are at 75% of the cost of a brand new turbo. Doesn't make sense does it. It didn't to me either.

If you do a search on here and "that other website" you will find the results of some of my research on this combination, which i have nicknamed "the half-assed hybrid". Don't do it. Some have gone fast with it, but they would probably be going faster with a better combination too.

Think about it this way... unless you specially request it... the biggest compressor wheel that Turbonetics will put in a T3 compressor housing is a Super60 wheel. Do you think they DON'T know what they are doing??

I understand your concerns about fitment on the car, as it is pretty involved putting a true hybrid on a 8v motor.... but if you get one of ChrisW's Hybrid headers, it makes life MUCH MUCH easier. Is it cheap? No, but once you go to install it, you will realize it's worth every penny.

AND as I have learned.. it's so much cheaper to do it right the first time then to half---- it the first time and going back and fixing all the corners you cut at a later time. Do it right, do it once. Learn from my mistakes and it makes all the money and time i wasted seem more worthwile to me.


Mike, perhaps I misread, but I believe he is going to be running a T4 50 Trim wheel in a T04B Compressor Housing.

[contraption22]

Mike, perhaps I misread, but I believe he is going to be running a T4 50 Trim wheel in a T04B Compressor Housing.

Hmm perhaps. I honestly do not have experience with that combination.

[Stinkbox]

i have a stage 3 turbine in a .63 a/r non chrysler housing with a t04b compressor housing and a super v trim compressor. it fits without having to grind anything but its close. my turbine is too big as my car doesn't get full boost in 1st till 5k but every other gear like high 3k low 4k. pulls super hard up top but totally killed my low end and i can't launch it so my 60's are terrible. i wish i had a 16v or a big valve 8v for some more exhaust flow to spool earlier.

[Dave]

Mike, thanks for the advice. This is the exact turbo she sent me: http://www.fwdperformance.com/store/Product.asp?IDCatalog=63&ProductID=450

It will be here in a matter of days. Too late to upgrade.

If worse comes to worse I can sell it used and just spend a few more bucks, get the E housing and upgrade to a S3 wheel for the 16v motor.

Also, I know the i/c is holding me back. After a 21psi burnout I couldn't even touch the outlet tank of the i/c, it was so hot. :yuck:

I'm broke for this month b/c of the turbo. Bigger intercooler will come in August.