1st gen Jeep Grand Cherokee - Anything to lookout for?

[ShelGame]

I'm looking for a 1st gen ('93-95) Jeep Grand Cherokee. I want to be able to make cals for Jeeps, so I'm looking for a straight 6, 4x4 version. Eventually, I want to build a hot rod, 4.7l stroker for it.

Anyone have experience with the 1st gen Grands? Anything I should lookout for? Specific rust-prone areas? I might be going to look at one this weekend.

[Reeves]

The hatches like to rust.
Also look at the frame on both sides behind the front wheels.

Are you looking for All Time 4wd or 2wd?

I've replaced the front axles in about 3 of them, but ours has 190K miles and never had to replace them. Not sure if there was different manufactures or what.

Also replaced the steering box once, but the reman had a horrible ratio and made driving the vehicle very tricky, so replaced that a few years later with another reman that is better, but not as good as the original. The Mopar box is very $$$.

Replace radiator once.

Replaced water pump twice (318). Replaced timing chain the last time I changed water pumps, since I was in the proximity. IT was on the loose end of the tolerance range, but still in tolerance.

Ours has some electrical gremlins, but nothing that keeps it from running. The radio freaks out most days after about 40mins of driving (Infinity gold with Amp under rear seat), the info center below the radio almost always is freaked out.

The power locks don't always work. You can hear something spinning in the door when they dont' work.

Want to do a 318 cal?

[ShelGame]

Want to do a 318 cal?

Eventually :) The code for the I6 and V8 is basically the same from '92-95.

I want 4x4. Are there different versions of 4x4? Or are they all full-time? I thought some could be shifted to 2wd? I'd prefer a shiftable transfer case. I won't need 4x4 all the time.

[Reeves]

Ours is all time 4wd. The transfer case is shiftable between AT4WD, Neutral, and 4 low.

I do believe they did make a 2wd/4wd version.

We've lifted the front of ours 2 3/4" and the back just added air shocks. Has 33/10.50BFGoodrich All Terrains on 15" soft 97 wheels. It's one hell of a off road machine for as minor of mods as it has! Ton of fun!

[Turbo224]

I've had a couple Grand Cherokees and I am fed up with them. Every one that I have had has needed the rear end rebuilt and has had transmission problems. If you look at them, make sure to take a look at the dif covers to check for any signs of leaking fluid. I was told by the mechanic that rebuilt one of my rear ends that they dif housings are difficult to get a good seal on and often leak fluid until the rear end seized up. Also, stay clear of the "quadra-drive" equipped Jeeps, they are the ones that you can not take out of 4 wheel drive. I have never understood the reasoning as to why you would want an suv in 4 wheel drive at all times. Just uses up gas and puts extra wear on drivetrain parts.

[Reeves]

We did recently replace the rear axle seals for the first time. Forgot to mention that. 190K miles, no rear end, no front end, no trans, no transfer case problems.

Ours is quadra-drive.
Has a limited slip rear.

[vipernbox]

yeah... the Transmission is the weak point... at least behind the V8.... Been there a couple times.. the 46RH/RE is just part of the 518 family.. and I can't exaclty say I am a fan... they can be built... and I guess they are tough enough... just with all the Jeeps I have had around... it was the first thing to go...

In the Grand most of them are going to be a full time 4x4... the quadratrack... the limited slip unit in the transfer case can and will wear out... if all four tires are not indentical... It will wear it out FAST... It is common to swap the NP 249 (quadratrack) for the NP 242.... or the NP 231... not only because they have a 2wd option.. but because the transfer case will actually lock while in 4wd instead of falling back on a limited slip unit... Those transfer cases were an option... but it is going to be hard-ish to find a ZJ with one factory equipped that way...

and really... unless you need the transfer case locked... or want 2wd to be able to do burnouts.. the 249 works awesome.... my V8 ZJ's were all wore out POS jeeps.. and all of them got 15-19 mpg... most of the time 17ish....

many of them had limited slip units in the front and rear as well... and for what they are... they work fantastic.. if you were going to go rock crawling you might want to upgrade.. if not.... leave them be... That is a quick j/y swap though if you find a nice jeep without the limited slip units and want them.... With them... a stock ZJ jeep will well exceed the abilities of any tire you can fit at stock ride height...


I never really ran into any rust issues.. just the typical old car stuff.. headliners, abuse ect....


if you decide you want to lift it... Simply move the front coils to the back and buy a set of front springs... and there you have it.. 3 inches...

[Turbo224]

I'm super jealous, because mine always have problems. Just like any car, if properly maintained they are probably fine, but I haven't had the luxury or the money to buy a low mile Jeep and make sure the maintenance is always done. I have never had a problem with the motors in any of them though, and i've had the 4.0, 5.2 and the 4.7.

[turbovanman²]

I hate full time 4WD, kills front tires.

Anyhow, tranny's as mentioned, check out the front axle u-joints. The engine's are great, except for leaking exhaust manifolds and rear main seals going. For the most part, they are fine. Check out the front end, drag links etc like to wear out causing sloppy steering.

[135sohc]

I've seen a few around here with the rear quarters starting to go and have noticed a couple in the yards that were the same way but there all probably high mileage units and we do use salt around here in excess... Parts support from the aftermarket is massive to say the least. Exact opposite of anything TM related.

[contraption22]

My brother has a '93 4.0 part-time 4wd. . I think it has close to 200k on it. I know over 150k. He got it for nothing. He's rebuilt and beefed up the trans on it. Replaced the rear with a rear-disc-equipped rear from a 5.2 equipped GC he found in the salvage yard. Also grabbed the leather seats out of it. Very comfortable. He's also replaced the hatch since it rusted out. No rust underneath tho. Steering feels sloppy to me, I' constantly correcting when driving it down the highway. I dunno if he ever replaced the box. It's gotta lotta squeaks and rattles. The message center is always flashing for one reason or another.

Very

[Reeves]

and there you have it.. 3 inches...

That's what he said.....


I hate full time 4WD, kills front tires.

Bologna.....
This Jeep has to be the easiest on tires of any Truck/SUV vehicle we have ever owned.
Maybe if you had a limited slip or locker in the front, then I could see your statement.

[ShelGame]

What front/ends do they have? From what I've read so far, the rear end tends to leak and causes pinion bearing failure. I'm not planning to leave it stock; though it will hardly be a trail rig. I might take it camping at the race track.

The one I have my eye on right now has a 3" lift kit, but otherwise seems stock. I'm going to try and check it out it this weekend, if I can.

[turbovanman²]

Bologna.....
This Jeep has to be the easiest on tires of any Truck/SUV vehicle we have ever owned.
Maybe if you had a limited slip or locker in the front, then I could see your statement.

Maybe you got lucky but every full time 4wd Jeep or any other SUV chews the tires to shitt, especially if you do alot of turning in tight places.

[glhs0426]

What front/ends do they have? From what I've read so far, the rear end tends to leak and causes pinion bearing failure.

The front end is always Dana 30. The rear can be Dana 35 or Dana 44. The Dana 44 did not start production until 1996 and was an aluminum center housig. DO NOT pick up from the center of the differential if it has an aluminum Dana 44 as it will tweak the housing causing the carrier bearings to wear oddly and change the backlash causing noise. The Dana 35 has issues with the axle seals leaking. You have to change the lock collar and bearing to get to the seal. It's not a big deal. Stock ratios were 3.55 and 3.73.

[Spr-T-23]

the 44a is a good axle, just not with anything over 33s, i wheel one of these. i dont like the early first gen (93-95) i like the 96-98 the trans are better and the t cases are better. awd is the 249j, i did the 2wd t case conversion, its a 242j. pm me if you have any questions or need parts, i have quite a few laying arround. im local, ill give you a hand wrenching if you need it.

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------

i can go with you to check it out of you want

[black86glhs]

The plastic plug on the rear diff cover would dry out and leak fluid badly. Many techs blamed the cover not sealing when I was at the jeep dealer. The early ones can be had for cheap, but they are just that, cheap.

[Spr-T-23]

yea the plugs seep more than leak, mines always wet but never low on fluid. the VC in the 249s go out at about 100k miles. you cant run without the front driveshaft in on the early 249, you can on the 96-98. death wobble will be all but definate, pretty fixable though, i havent had it in 2 years. i would NEVER get a jeep with a dana 35 rear axle unless you like to replace the shafts.

[black86glhs]

yea the plugs seep more than leak, mines always wet but never low on fluid. the VC in the 249s go out at about 100k miles. you cant run without the front driveshaft in on the early 249, you can on the 96-98. death wobble will be all but definate, pretty fixable though, i havent had it in 2 years. i would NEVER get a jeep with a dana 35 rear axle unless you like to replace the shafts.When good they seeped, when dried out they leaked....lol.

[Spr-T-23]

nice i guess mines good then lol

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

thinking of taking off my spare cover and puting a plug in it and adding some steel to stiffen up the alu. housing

[black86glhs]

nice i guess mines good then lol

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

thinking of taking off my spare cover and puting a plug in it and adding some steel to stiffen up the alu. housing
The worst part is that they seep and many owners don't keep up on it. For those like you that keep track of it, not a big deal.

[ShelGame]

Doh! Too slow. The GC I was going to check out is gone already...

[TopDollar69]

I was working on a friends 98 GC yesterday and i noticed the 4.0L had a tin valve cover that was leaking all over the place. Now I know my 89 Cherokee had a cast valve cover that I don't remember being leaky at all. Hers has the permanatly freaked out drivers info center as well. Usually it's the low coolant level sensor that it's complaining about.

[RoadWarrior222]

Maybe you got lucky but every full time 4wd Jeep or any other SUV chews the tires to shitt, especially if you do alot of turning in tight places.
That would probably be those dilberts that drive 'em on pavement with all the diffs locked, or had all the diffs welded.

[Reeves]

Maybe you got lucky but every full time 4wd Jeep or any other SUV chews the tires to shitt, especially if you do alot of turning in tight places.

Another example besides our old Jeep, is my parents newer Jeep. It's a 2005 Grand Cherokee with Hemi and Quadratrac. Just replaced the ORIGINAL tires a few months ago with 65K on the clock. I don't think that is too shabby for tire wear.


the VC in the 249s go out at about 100k miles. i would NEVER get a jeep with a dana 35 rear axle unless you like to replace the shafts.

What are you refering to as VC in the 249?
Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Dana 35 unless you are going to be doing serious off roading and/or running monster tires.


Doh! Too slow. The GC I was going to check out is gone already...

Dang Rob, that sucks! I hate when sh*t like that happens.


Hers has the permanatly freaked out drivers info center as well. Usually it's the low coolant level sensor that it's complaining about.

Ours is usually complaining about taillight failure, service due, and then it resets the date and time on it's own and constantly flashes. I need to unplug it when I get a chance. Maybe put some gauges there or something. LOL.

Another wierd thing it does... It has a outline of a Jeep on it, and it has the taillights flashing, because it thinks something is wrong with the taillights, but also, on the outline of the little jeep, the windshield flashes too. What is that supposed to mean ??

[RoadWarrior222]

You gotta remember that some people buy a jeep because they think it doesn't need any of that namby pamby crap... like maintenance. :rolleyes:

[contraption22]

Another wierd thing it does... It has a outline of a Jeep on it, and it has the taillights flashing, because it thinks something is wrong with the taillights, but also, on the outline of the little jeep, the windshield flashes too. What is that supposed to mean ??

I think the windsheild flashing means the washer fluid is low. It probably isn't, but that's what it's telling you.

[elle bawdy]

I had a 98 5.2 Limited. Aluminum dana 44 a bad idea for water crossings. I could fill a page with stuff that broke and gas receipts, but the motor was bulletproof. After I rolled it I sold it to a kid who did this to it....
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4349/85/76/502777344/n502777344_2514835_4647695.jpg

I made him sign a waiver before he drove it home

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

oh and
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs122.snc1/5255_130726752003_509332003_3117854_7544459_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs142.snc1/5255_130727012003_509332003_3117891_6604207_n.jpg

[Spr-T-23]

pretty cool looking lol. Yea the VC in the 249 likes to burn out and piss silacone into the t case, if you check the fluid and its black and smells funny the VC is smoked. and yea the 35 is trash, no convincing me elsewise. ive seen them spit out axles, bone stock never wheeled. d35 is like the semi floating 14bolt chevy, j u n k.

[glhs0426]

What are you refering to as VC in the 249? VC = Viscous Coupling I personally like the 247 case ('99up)that required wheel slip to drive the oil pump which engaged a clutch pack, but those too had issues.

Ours is usually complaining about taillight From experience I've found if the 3rd brake lamp bulb(s) are the incorrect number it will set the tailamp out lamp to flashing due to the bulbs incorrect resistance.




Another thing to look out for in the first gen and second gen GC's is the driver door jamb harness. The wires break from
use causing all kinds of wierd issues. The first gen harness is a seperate piece that can be taken out and repaired. The 99-04 piece is a part of the dash harness and must be spliced from inside the vehicle.

I have found if the repair is made in the door jamb there will be another failure soon following due to the extra stress on a much shorter (due to the splice in the center) wire having to bend in the door jamb. The harness for the early GC has been dicontinued from Mopar. I now just pillage an old harness to repair another harness.

[GLHSHELBY]

pretty cool looking lol. Yea the VC in the 249 likes to burn out and piss silacone into the t case, if you check the fluid and its black and smells funny the VC is smoked. and yea the 35 is trash, no convincing me elsewise. ive seen them spit out axles, bone stock never wheeled. d35 is like the semi floating 14bolt chevy, j u n k.
the VC has been known to leak,always look for this,not really bad though.

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------


Another thing to look out for in the first gen and second gen GC's is the driver door jamb harness. The wires break from
use causing all kinds of wierd issues. The first gen harness is a seperate piece that can be taken out and repaired. The 99-04 piece is a part of the dash harness and must be spliced from inside the vehicle.

I have found if the repair is made in the door jamb there will be another failure soon following due to the extra stress on a much shorter (due to the splice in the center) wire having to bend in the door jamb. The harness for the early GC has been dicontinued from Mopar. I now just pillage an old harness to repair another harness.
The drivers doors seem to wear out where they hit the latch. Crack all the meatal around the opening. I`ve fixed dozens of them for about $20 each.

Also if getting the 4.0 the main thing to look for is the exhaust manifolds tend to crack and you`ll hear it,besides that they`re very stout.
93-95`s rear ends aren`t that bad like the 99-00`s were.
Transmissions are kind of known for not lasting too long but it`s not really a transmission failure just lack of cooling.Throw an extra or bigger trans cooler on and you shouldn`t have problems.
If getting the 5.2 or 5.9 you WILL be replacing the water pump most likely soon after getting it.Also the main problem with thyese motors on 80% of them is they really have a design flaw which tends to have very leaky plenums,which results in detonation and usually requires more octane than what it really needs. There is a few ways to fix that problem with a metal pan or a mopar m1 intake.

after owning 100`s of these I`d still say the 1st gen is still a lot more reliable than the 99-01`s.

Also if you get one,everytime you`re in the junkyard go ahead and get extra headlight switches,they`re prone to go bad. I`ve never had tire issues AFTER getting the alignment`s dialed in correctly,which tends to be hard for 95% of the shops out there. If you`re usually having tire issues which happens badly if not done correctly.
Basically is you get the laredo 4x4 it will have the part time 4wd option,if it`s a limited and 4wd it will be AWD all the time unless you change it.

[GLHSHELBY]

Another wierd thing it does... It has a outline of a Jeep on it, and it has the taillights flashing, because it thinks something is wrong with the taillights, but also, on the outline of the little jeep, the windshield flashes too. What is that supposed to mean ??
if it`s flashing and you don`t see a bad taillight double check the 3rd brake lights above the rear hatch window,they`re hard to see when they go out. Also if you go to led lighting,you have to put some type of resistor in because it will think they are out. If the windshield thing is flashing and you have windshield washer fluid in,double check the sensor where the fluid is they tend to fall in and fall apart.

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------


I was working on a friends 98 GC yesterday and i noticed the 4.0L had a tin valve cover that was leaking all over the place. Now I know my 89 Cherokee had a cast valve cover that I don't remember being leaky at all. Hers has the permanatly freaked out drivers info center as well. Usually it's the low coolant level sensor that it's complaining about.
quite a few are known to complain about low coolant and not needing it but I always check

[RoadWarrior222]

I`ve never had tire issues AFTER getting the alignment`s dialed in correctly,which tends to be hard for 95% of the shops out there. If you`re usually having tire issues which happens badly if not done correctly.

That might well go for all vehicles, I have hated how shops have set up buddies cars and sure'nuff they're eating tires.... Set up mine by eyeball, measuring tape and trammel bar and I've got fingertip control, high gas mileage and tires wearing 50% over mileage rating.

[TopDollar69]

Can you really trust a shop that sells tires to do an alignment correctly?

[Spr-T-23]

if they have a trained alig. tech then yea. ask to talk to the tech, if he sounds like a tard take it elswhere. i just use a tape messure, never had any issues with it. old timer trick

[GLHSHELBY]

Can you really trust a shop that sells tires to do an alignment correctly?
I personally went to 6 different alignment shops,including jeep dealership.Tire Kingdom fixed it 4 years ago and I haven`t had a problem since

[ShelGame]

Are there any jeep forums as good as TM?

[vipernbox]

NAXJA isn't bad... but they are focused on the XJ.. (duh) I dunno how they feel about talking about ZJ stuff... but they have a ton of info on the site..

[Spr-T-23]

nagca.com is good, north american grand cherokee as. one for more hardcore gc owners is mallcrallin.com they can be an --- to a noob though

[RoadWarrior222]

There's a '98 popped up on my radar here, for "If I suddenly have $2000" ... fairly good towbeasts? 6500lbish I heard.

I also wouldn't normally have considered anything past '95 for modding purposes, but they are changing the emissions testing here to only 2 speed idle tailpipe sniffs for anything 98 and older.

Hmmmm, just checked another site to see if it was listed there for more details, and I found what sounded like it, but it was listed sold.... thought it sounded like a good deal.

[ShelGame]

There's a '98 popped up on my radar here, for "If I suddenly have $2000" ... fairly good towbeasts? 6500lbish I heard.

I also wouldn't normally have considered anything past '95 for modding purposes, but they are changing the emissions testing here to only 2 speed idle tailpipe sniffs for anything 98 and older.

Hmmmm, just checked another site to see if it was listed there for more details, and I found what sounded like it, but it was listed sold.... thought it sounded like a good deal.

Not so worried about emissions really. I want a '93-95 due to them using an SBEC-II. My flash module and SCI cable will work with them. I want to be able to do a tune for the Jeep I6 since it seems like nobody is doing them at all for those years. '96+ is the JTEC; those have been hacked and re-cal'd by more than a few. Eventually, I want to build a 4.7 stroker for it and make a cal for that, too.

I found one going on auction here this weekend. I don't know yet if it's an I6 or V8 though. I only want an I6.

[roachjuice]

I have a 98 grand Cherokee. 6 banger 4x4. I have the select trac t case. Has 2 and 4wd. I havent had a problem out of mine. Sunday it blew a head gasket (I think hopefully) has 165,xxx miles. The 318 are awd and the t cases suck. My cluster lights like to go on and off all the time. Driver side door lock likes to not work. Ac leaks on the floor on passenger side. Very common problem. Id say to look out for trans problems. Dana 44 in the rear and 35 in the front. Makes for a decent combo. Mine has 3:73 gears. Factory tow hitch. I get decent mileage I guess. 21 hwy and 14 city. Only mod I got is a k&n drop in filter. Didnt do squat. I love it way more than my crappy sentra. That's for sure. If I can get better mileage out of it I'd drive it more often.

[Vigo]

I dont think anyone has explained the AWD thing.

Basically there's a clutch or viscous coupling (VC) in the transfer case. So just like most awds like subarus or caravans, only 1 diff is getting power, unless the other wheels slip and there is enough speed differential to heat up the VC (via fluid sheer) so that it 'locks up'. At that point you're basically in 4hi.

I dont think there is any MPG difference between AWD and 2hi unless one of them has unlocking front hubs. Otherwise both setups are still dragging power off the front wheels to spin the axles, diff, and front driveshaft.

The reliability concern is real, though. I would get the selectable NON awd if i could find one.

I love the 4.0 motor. Super dependable. Issues with it are mostly as already mentioned: rear mains, valve covers, blowby, crank sensors.

I thought that the first year trucks (93 iirc) you could get 4.0 with the AW4 instead of the a500? The AW4 is a vastly more reliable piece, most issues come down to a dirty neutral switch. Either way, a trans cooler is a smart move.

[roachjuice]

Jeepforums.com there is a Zj section.

[ShelGame]

I dont think anyone has explained the AWD thing.

Basically there's a clutch or viscous coupling (VC) in the transfer case. So just like most awds like subarus or caravans, only 1 diff is getting power, unless the other wheels slip and there is enough speed differential to heat up the VC (via fluid sheer) so that it 'locks up'. At that point you're basically in 4hi.

I dont think there is any MPG difference between AWD and 2hi unless one of them has unlocking front hubs. Otherwise both setups are still dragging power off the front wheels to spin the axles, diff, and front driveshaft.

The reliability concern is real, though. I would get the selectable NON awd if i could find one.

I love the 4.0 motor. Super dependable. Issues with it are mostly as already mentioned: rear mains, valve covers, blowby, crank sensors.

I thought that the first year trucks (93 iirc) you could get 4.0 with the AW4 instead of the a500? The AW4 is a vastly more reliable piece, most issues come down to a dirty neutral switch. Either way, a trans cooler is a smart move.

Yeah, I knew about the VC transfer case thing. It's really hard to find a Selectrac Jeep, though. Seems like they're all Quadratrac. There was one on CL where the guy had said the rear driveshaft went out. So, his mechanic made it FWD by removing it. He said it only last another 2 months or so and now it doesn't move at all - well, DUH! It was cheap, too. But, it was a V8 :(

[roachjuice]

Sell ya mine lol

[Spr-T-23]

i can put a selec trac in yours, that what i did to mine. realy easy. i have parts if you pick up a broken one, let me know bud.

[ShelGame]

Well, I got one. '95 GC Laredo, base model, command-trac (part-time 4wd - yeah!), I6, 192K on it, but it doesn't look it. Needs very little, actually. Water pump will need to be replaced, it's weeping. Intermittant wipers don't work, but they work on hi/lo. Rear hatch is very rusty. Some rust on the rockers, but the plastic covers it up so you can't really tell. Pics later...

[RoadWarrior222]

Nice... so.... SRT-8 swap and in the 9s by September??? .... just kidding... cal for the six it is, what do you reckon is hiding in there? Another 50HP???

[Reeves]

I've got 2 good friends at work that both have Jeep Cherokee's with the 4.0L. If I can help you test anything as well.

[ShelGame]

4.7L stroker is in my future :evil: I want to build up a commonly built stroker combination and make a cal for it. I think there are a lot of guys out there in Jeep-land that would be interested in it. They literally have NOTHING for the ODB-I Jeeps available; and the going opinion is that it's 'impossible' to do. Just like our cals used to be...

[RoadWarrior222]

Well that's a challenge to recode it super tight then in the 5K you save, make it play pong on the dash lights.

[vipernbox]

4.7L stroker is in my future :evil: I want to build up a commonly built stroker combination and make a cal for it. I think there are a lot of guys out there in Jeep-land that would be interested in it. They literally have NOTHING for the ODB-I Jeeps available; and the going opinion is that it's 'impossible' to do. Just like our cals used to be...


I am listening :)

I assume this stuff is going to cross over to the Grand Cherokee's older (yet smaller) brother isn't it???

[Spr-T-23]

upgrade to the 2000 intake for a start. watch your serp belt tention, thats prob what whipped the pump in the first place. selectracs are an easy swap if you know your spline count and output shaft lenght, there are 3 lenghts if i remember right. does it have the cv axles and front drive shaft, i like them some people dont. they dont bind and are plenty strong, i wheeled on mine forever. your cals should be good for xj, yj, zj, mj, right? anything with a 4.slow? my dad has a lifted yj, he would prob be interested in some power.

[rich tideswell]

They literally have NOTHING for the ODB-I Jeeps available; and the going opinion is that it's 'impossible' to do. Just like our cals used to be...

My buddy has a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 I6 that's DOA (dead on it's axles) due to rod knock (he's not selling it, he's keeping it). He lives in Livonia (8 and Telegraph area, heck of a lot closer to you than I am). Are you looking for a donor brain to steal, then modify the stock code, or do you have a brain ready to go and you are looking for a geunea pig?

[Mopar318]

If you can break into the dodge trucks computer, socket it and make calibrations then you are about to be a rich man. The B&G flashes cost up to $400. Would you be able to add tables for boost?

Last I heard, Chrysler made it illegal (via patent) to modify their code in the computers. Dealerships could get fined huge amounts of money if they were caught doing it. I'm not sure if that was actually true or not.

[ShelGame]

B&G doesn't even touch the OBDI computers (though, I'm sure Dave Kasper can do them).

Though it is technically illegal to copy the Chrysler binary files, we haven't been harassed by Chrysler (yet) for doing turbo cals. I don't see why they'd have a problem with Jeep cals from the same generation.

As for the OBDII stuff, there are already ways to tweak them and have been for a while.

Dealerships are a different story as there is an implied warranty if you are doing work like that as a Chrysler representative.

The code for the Jeep I6 is pretty much the same as the V8 and Jeep I4. So, I will be able to do any OBDI Jeep/Truck cal.

Adding boost would be just as tough for the J/T computers as it is for the 3.0 stuff...

[GLHSHELBY]

jeepsunlimited.com, jeepslimited.com,and of course thespeedfreaks.net are good ones.

[RoadWarrior222]

B&G doesn't even touch the OBDI computers (though, I'm sure Dave Kasper can do them).

Though it is technically illegal to copy the Chrysler binary files, we haven't been harassed by Chrysler (yet) for doing turbo cals. I don't see why they'd have a problem with Jeep cals from the same generation.

There's some ex Chryco guy on the mailing lists always foaming at the mouth about it though. Just hope the regime change doesn't bring in nasty policies, after all they could sic us with DMCA suits.

[ShelGame]

There's some ex Chryco guy on the mailing lists always foaming at the mouth about it though. Just hope the regime change doesn't bring in nasty policies, after all they could sic us with DMCA suits.

Who? and Why? What harm could we possibly bring to Chrysler at this point in time? All of these vehicles are well out of warranty, and the current ECU setup that Chrysler uses doesn't use any of this older code at all.

---------- Post added at 08:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 AM ----------


jeepsunlimited.com, jeepslimited.com,and of course thespeedfreaks.net are good ones.

I found www.jeepstrokers.com. It's a more technical, DIY kind of forum. Much like here. Not highly active, though. Many of the posts I've seen on the other jeep forums are not very good.

[Spr-T-23]

^ cause some has nothing better to do in thier miserable life than harass you about something that doesnt matter at all, they just hate thier life and want you to pay for it. ^

[Reeves]

I found www.jeepstrokers.com. It's a more technical, DIY kind of forum. Much like here. Not highly active, though. Many of the posts I've seen on the other jeep forums are not very good.

Should I go with a BB and how do I install it.

LOL.

[Spr-T-23]

naw, take it about about 8" on the short arms, itll be fine

[ShelGame]

Should I go with a BB and how do I install it.

LOL.

Well, there's those. Then there's also some guy called "JeepSteve" (well, not really, but I forget his username) who's apparently the 'pope' of the jeep world. His answer for every engine problem is to replace the crank position sensor. I have yet to see a post where he chimes in and the problem actually WAS the CPS.

I can tell it's going to be fun making cals for some of those guys...

[RoadWarrior222]

Who? and Why?
Forgot, this was 3+ years ago when I was first reading the D-cal lists or groups I think, I think he was saying that he had a hand in some of the original code and only he was qualified and licensed to modify it... but I got the impression that he was slow and expensive and his cals weren't that hot...

[ShelGame]

Forgot, this was 3+ years ago when I was first reading the D-cal lists or groups I think, I think he was saying that he had a hand in some of the original code and only he was qualified and licensed to modify it... but I got the impression that he was slow and expensive and his cals weren't that hot...

LOL, Chrysler never 'licensed' anyone to modify their code.

[roachjuice]

Well, there's those. Then there's also some guy called "JeepSteve" (well, not really, but I forget his username) who's apparently the 'pope' of the jeep world. His answer for every engine problem is to replace the crank position sensor. I have yet to see a post where he chimes in and the problem actually WAS the CPS.

I can tell it's going to be fun making cals for some of those guys... yea most of them are meat heads. i asked a question about turboing a 4.0 jeep engine and they bashed me saying it wont create torque and i should stroke it because it will be easier. WTF? lol too much torque actually breaks shyt in the drive line. good luck telling those guys that. everyone of them that stroke it to a 4.X have problems.

[Spr-T-23]

4.7, and yea its hard to argue with jeep guys on any forum, they can be pretty dense sometime

[contraption22]

Looks like I may be picking up a 1995 Laredo 4.0L. Low mileage. Needs an exhaust and an AC evaporator, possibly tires.

[ShelGame]

Looks like I may be picking up a 1995 Laredo 4.0L. Low mileage. Needs an exhaust and an AC evaporator, possibly tires.

After I finally replaced the plugs and wires in mine, I'm getting 19+ mpg commuting to work and 24 or so on the highway. Only about 15 towing, though. Other than the steering being a bit vague (at best) - it's been a great little trucklet. Tows my Daytona on the open trailer just fine. For 208k miles, it's pretty damn reliable. After I replaced the CPS, it hasn't left me stranded at all. I put almost 20k miles on it on 7 months.

It's getting sidelined for towing-only and Lowes duty. I just got my Altima lease car last week...

[contraption22]

After I finally replaced the plugs and wires in mine, I'm getting 19+ mpg commuting to work and 24 or so on the highway. Only about 15 towing, though. Other than the steering being a bit vague (at best) - it's been a great little trucklet. Tows my Daytona on the open trailer just fine. For 208k miles, it's pretty damn reliable. After I replaced the CPS, it hasn't left me stranded at all. I put almost 20k miles on it on 7 months.

It's getting sidelined for towing-only and Lowes duty. I just got my Altima lease car last week...

That's good to hear! This one used to belong to my sis-in-law's dad. AFAIK, it does not have the OE towing package, which likely means it has 3.55 vs. 3.73 gears and no external trans cooler, but it does have an aftermarket ClassIII/IV hitch installed. Used to tow a Waverunner with it. Within the last couple of years, the crank position sensor went, and when my brother went to replace it, the fastener broke off in the trans. So he had to drop trans, and figured he might as well give it a freshening when it was out. He put in beefier clutch packs from the heavier duty units in the A500 family. It hasn't seen much use since then. That's why the Dynomax exhaust that's on it rusted out.

So hopefully this works out. I could really use a vehicle with more utility than my Acclaim or SRT-4.

My only questions are, should I go with a BB lift, and how do I install it?

[Reeves]

That's good to hear! This one used to belong to my sis-in-law's dad. AFAIK, it does not have the OE towing package, which likely means it has 3.55 vs. 3.73 gears and no external trans cooler, but it does have an aftermarket ClassIII/IV hitch installed. Used to tow a Waverunner with it. Within the last couple of years, the crank position sensor went, and when my brother went to replace it, the fastener broke off in the trans. So he had to drop trans, and figured he might as well give it a freshening when it was out. He put in beefier clutch packs from the heavier duty units in the A500 family. It hasn't seen much use since then. That's why the Dynomax exhaust that's on it rusted out.

So hopefully this works out. I could really use a vehicle with more utility than my Acclaim or SRT-4.

My only questions are, should I go with a BB lift, and how do I install it?

I'm not sure if you've seen our 95 GC or not, but it has a BB on front and air shocks out back. The BB wasn't too bad to install, but you need to take a LOT of stuff loose.

[moparman76_69]

I'm getting 19+ mpg commuting to work and 24 or so on the highway. Only about 15 towing, though. Other than the steering being a bit vague (at best) - it's been a great little trucklet.

My mom's 5.2 97 grand gets 17 mpg hwy empty or towing and 13 city. The steering it is horrible. New stabilizer killed the death wobble but it still kinda hunts around and has alot of slop in the steering. I think it needs all new bushing and maybe a new box.

[ShelGame]

My mom's 5.2 97 grand gets 17 mpg hwy empty or towing and 13 city. The steering it is horrible. New stabilizer killed the death wobble but it still kinda hunts around and has alot of slop in the steering. I think it needs all new bushing and maybe a new box.

I checked all the bushings on mine - they were all tight. The box seems sloppy, though. I tried adjusting the backlash screw; that just made the steering very stiff. I dunno if a new box would help or not. But, it's a $300 part so I'm not taking the gamble that it would help anything. Besides, I've heard the GC's are just really sloppy steering cars. As I recall, my wife's '97 Cherokee was about the same with only 60k miles on it.

[135sohc]

recirculating ball will never handle like a rack & pinion.

[contraption22]

recirculating ball will never handle like a rack & pinion.


My mom's 5.2 97 grand gets 17 mpg hwy empty or towing and 13 city. The steering it is horrible. New stabilizer killed the death wobble but it still kinda hunts around and has alot of slop in the steering. I think it needs all new bushing and maybe a new box.


I checked all the bushings on mine - they were all tight. The box seems sloppy, though. I tried adjusting the backlash screw; that just made the steering very stiff. I dunno if a new box would help or not. But, it's a $300 part so I'm not taking the gamble that it would help anything. Besides, I've heard the GC's are just really sloppy steering cars. As I recall, my wife's '97 Cherokee was about the same with only 60k miles on it.

My brother's GC has very sloppy steering as well. Feels like a boat. Constatnly correcting. I'm pretty sure the box is worn out on it. As I recally the one I might be getting feels much tighter. On a plus side, I really like the turning radius of the GC.


I'm not sure if you've seen our 95 GC or not, but it has a BB on front and air shocks out back. The BB wasn't too bad to install, but you need to take a LOT of stuff loose.

I have seen it. Looks badass. I wasn't really considering lifting mine, I was just joking along with your previous post. If it needs tires, and I can't find a better looking set of OE wheels, I have a set of wheels picked out that I really like, but they are only available in 16" or larger. I'd like to go with a set of 245/70/16's.

[Reeves]

I've replaced 2 steering boxes on ours. The first one wore out and was very sloppy. The 2nd one wandered all over the road like it was the WAY wrong ratio. Well, it was. So after being on there for a few years, I replaced it with another one that is way better, but it still feels loose in the front.

[black86glhs]

A few people I know with solid axle chevy trucks put a damper on them to get some of the feel back. No, not because they 4 wheel ' em. I have driven one with & without and it does feel tighter and more controlled. Maybe it would work on these?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[RoadWarrior222]

Tall tires never help steering feel either.

[ShelGame]

A few people I know with solid axle chevy trucks put a damper on them to get some of the feel back. No, not because they 4 wheel ' em. I have driven one with & without and it does feel tighter and more controlled. Maybe it would work on these?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

GC's have a factory steering damper...

[Reeves]

GC's have a factory steering damper...

Yeah, and I've tried like 3 aftermarket one's to see if there is a difference. I think the one I have on there now is either a Skyjacker or a Rancho. It does seem better than stock.

For really good customer service and tons of steering stuff all exclusively ZJ, I've talked and dealt with these guys. They are top notch:

www.kevinsoffroad.com

[contraption22]

Yeah, and I've tried like 3 aftermarket one's to see if there is a difference. I think the one I have on there now is either a Skyjacker or a Rancho. It does seem better than stock.

For really good customer service and tons of steering stuff all exclusively ZJ, I've talked and dealt with these guys. They are top notch:

www.kevinsoffroad.com (http://www.kevinsoffroad.com)

Nice website. A lot of good info!

[turbodaytona87]

There aren't any new boxes for these, or the dodge trucks. All the parts store ones are rebuilt. There were companies that were making new boxes (in the $400 price range), but I haven't kept up with the GC stuff. PSC used to make them, but they stopped.

The track bar would be another place to check.

[roachjuice]

Ac leaks water on the inside of the car. Headlight switches are junk. Make the gauge lights flicker and not work. Transfer cases are so so.

[rbryant]

My '96 cherokee isn't a GC but it has the same basic drivetrain. 4.0l Straight 6, AW4 automatic trans, PT 4wd, etc. The AW4 is a solid transmission and they usually get 200k miles as does the 4.0l engine. The biggest issue I have related to the engine is that I still need to change out my factory exhaust header which has the all too common cracking.

Emissions on the '96 is actually much easier here. If it doesn't throw a code and the gas cap is good then it passes. With the cracked exhaust manifold I would probably fail if it was a '95.

The D35 rear ends are really not very good but I am not abusing it so it has been fine. I have a Chrysler 8.25 ready to install if needed.

The only other annoying thing is that you really have to keep the front wheels balanced and the alignment just right or it will go into an oscillation "death wobble" around 55mph and it just shakes like crazy until you go either faster or slower I am pretty sure that the GC has the same issues... I noticed it much more after I put the 1.5" lift on.

-Rich

[ShelGame]

My '96 cherokee isn't a GC but it has the same basic drivetrain. 4.0l Straight 6, AW4 automatic trans, PT 4wd, etc. The AW4 is a solid transmission and they usually get 200k miles as does the 4.0l engine. The biggest issue I have related to the engine is that I still need to change out my factory exhaust header which has the all too common cracking.

Emissions on the '96 is actually much easier here. If it doesn't throw a code and the gas cap is good then it passes. With the cracked exhaust manifold I would probably fail if it was a '95.

The D35 rear ends are really not very good but I am not abusing it so it has been fine. I have a Chrysler 8.25 ready to install if needed.

The only other annoying thing is that you really have to keep the front wheels balanced and the alignment just right or it will go into an oscillation "death wobble" around 55mph and it just shakes like crazy until you go either faster or slower I am pretty sure that the GC has the same issues... I noticed it much more after I put the 1.5" lift on.

-Rich

Only the '93 GC's came with the AW4. 94+ are the Chrysler 3-speed with electric OD and LU(42LE?).

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------


Ac leaks water on the inside of the car. Headlight switches are junk. Make the gauge lights flicker and not work. Transfer cases are so so.

Depends on the x-fer case. Quadra-trac is nice (full-time AWD), but the viscous center diff can go out and it's really pricey to get fixed. Command-trac is slightly better in that you can switch it out of AWD and you can lock the center diff (4WD). Selec-trac is the most robust x-far case being a traditional 4WD case with 4hi, 4lo, and 2hi. Same case as used in the Cherokee's. Though, you can't get Select-trac with a V8.

[contraption22]

The only other annoying thing is that you really have to keep the front wheels balanced and the alignment just right or it will go into an oscillation "death wobble" around 55mph and it just shakes like crazy until you go either faster or slower I am pretty sure that the GC has the same issues... I noticed it much more after I put the 1.5" lift on.

-Rich

The link that Reeves posted has a lot of good information about the causes and solutions for the death wobble. From what I have read there, and other places, wheel imbalance may be a trigger, the death wobble is a symptom, and a loose front end is the root problem.

[roachjuice]

i had a Selec-trac in mine. worked great. i had 2hi 4wd part time and 4wd full time and 4lo. that command track is just 2hi 4lo 4hi.

[turbodaytona87]

Only the '93 GC's came with the AW4. 94+ are the Chrysler 3-speed with electric OD and LU(42LE?).


93-95 is the 4xRH (x is either 4 or 6 depending on engine), 96+ got the 4xRE (again, x depends on engine)

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------




Depends on the x-fer case. Quadra-trac is nice (full-time AWD), but the viscous center diff can go out and it's really pricey to get fixed. Command-trac is slightly better in that you can switch it out of AWD and you can lock the center diff (4WD). Selec-trac is the most robust x-far case being a traditional 4WD case with 4hi, 4lo, and 2hi. Same case as used in the Cherokee's. Though, you can't get Select-trac with a V8.

You can swap the 242 (selec-trac) into a V8 Grand. Its really not too bad. For the 93-94(maybe through 95) you just have to do an input shaft swap from the 249 to the 242 (only certain years of 242 have the right gear cut to match the 249 shaft, you'd have to check for sure what years) and bolt it back in.

[RoadWarrior222]

So even these Jeeps are like big fancy lego sets... nice :D

[turbodaytona87]

Yeah, the 242 swap was probably the best mod I did. It was nice being able to lock the front and rear together (handled almost all the snow we got, tires were getting worn though), as well as go 2wd whenever I wanted. I don't know if it was in my head, but it seemed to drive better with the 242 than the 249. Almost like it wasn't taking as much power to turn the transfercase compared to the 249. I left my front driveshaft out with the 249 unless it was snowy because of the locked up viscous coupler, so it wasn't a full time 4wd vs 2wd difference.

[contraption22]

So even these Jeeps are like big fancy lego sets... nice :D

Driving my brother's GC is just like driving a giant L-body.

[RoadWarrior222]

Que? The door handles fall off and you can see the road between your feet???

[contraption22]

Has anybody tried or know somebody that has tried the intake manifold swap? Supposedly swapping a '99-up intake manifold onto an earlier 4.0 is worth a nice gain.

[ShelGame]

Wanted to, but it's such a popular swap that the price of the '99+ manifold is ridiculous. Even the junkyards know about it and drive the price up. Hard to find one for less than $150...

[turbodaytona87]

Never messed with a 4.slow lol

[moparjon2007]

You can thank the show trucks for the price explosion. When they did their 4.0 Cherokee the showed off that maini swap. I have a 95 5.2 with the quadratrac and I hate it. Wish I had a 96, the 96 up xfer case was chain driven and I am plagued with the viscus coupler... Wish I would have read up more before I bought mine. Jeeps are definatly a love hate relationship.

[Vigo]

Never messed with a 4.slow lol

A stock 4.0 cherokee is nearly as fast as a stock t2 87 daytona.. should we start calling them 2.too-slow now? :)

[contraption22]

A stock 4.0 cherokee is nearly as fast as a stock t2 87 daytona.. should we start calling them 2.too-slow now? :)

I remember my first outing at a track rental with my Horizon after converting it from carb to T1. I was running mid 15's with it... and consistently getting my --- kicked by a then-newish Wrangler 4.0 5 speed.

[Vigo]

Heh, i have lost 2 street races to Wranglers myself...

My friend Derrick who i gave the white new yorker to (there is thread here on it) has a white cherokee that would already be running mid 15s stock if it didnt have a 3.07 open diff in it. It has run 16.0@85 with no mods and no particularly good conditions. I dont even think his 60' was that great.

[black86glhs]

I wish I knew where all these quick wranglers and Cherokees were. Only quick one is a 2 dr 5sp 4.0 2x4. IMO.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Vigo]

That's basically correct. Up north 2wd cherokees are supposedly rare but down here they are at least 50/50. A Wrangler also has the option of easily removing 2 doors, a windshield, a tailgate, 2 seats, a spare, etc for drag racing. Most cars cant dump weight that easily.

[black86glhs]

That's basically correct. Up north 2wd cherokees are supposedly rare but down here they are at least 50/50. A Wrangler also has the option of easily removing 2 doors, a windshield, a tailgate, 2 seats, a spare, etc for drag racing. Most cars cant dump weight that easily.That's right, I forgot about shedding some weight on a wrangler. Don't get me wrong, the other models aren't total slugs, but the 4x4 models of any car line obviously are slower (with the exception of SRT, SS, ect. versions). Rare as hell, 93 4.0 5sp grand cherokee. It was a fun vehicle to PDI....:eyebrows:

[turbodaytona87]

You can thank the show trucks for the price explosion. When they did their 4.0 Cherokee the showed off that maini swap. I have a 95 5.2 with the quadratrac and I hate it. Wish I had a 96, the 96 up xfer case was chain driven and I am plagued with the viscus coupler... Wish I would have read up more before I bought mine. Jeeps are definatly a love hate relationship.

The 249, regardless of year, is chain driven and uses a viscous coupler. Just swap to a 242. Problem solved.

[contraption22]

Anybody have issues with interior water leaks?

I fixed the AC condensate leak. Pretty easy fix with a hole saw and some FlexSeal.

Looks like I also have some roof rack leaks. I tried fixing it this weekend, but it didn't work.

[turbodaytona87]

Nope, mine never leaked.

Did you try some rtv around each of the roof rack holes?

[contraption22]

Nope, mine never leaked.

Did you try some rtv around each of the roof rack holes?

Found a TSB for it. Last night I took out each bolt and dabbed Teflon thread sealant on em.

[TopDollar69]

I found one of the roof rack bolts was missing on my old T&C wagon. After I replaced it I didn't have anymore strange leaks, but I'm sure some thread locker would have helped it seal up, and keep it from coming out again.

[black86glhs]

I remember have to do that tsb on quite a few when I was at Farrish Jeep in Fairfax City, VA.

[contraption22]

Still leaking. It is uncomfortable typing this without cursing.

I guess i need to pull the head liner down and confirm that's where the water is comming from. If that is the case, I may just remove the roof rack and plug the holes.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, then you can stick on a rally/raid rack with lights, gas and water cans and spare tires...

There's a cherokee that runs round town, accessorised like that, 24/7 for going to the grocery store, and I swear I've seen more mud on my Escort more often than on it.

[contraption22]

Yah, then you can stick on a rally/raid rack with lights, gas and water cans and spare tires...

There's a cherokee that runs round town, accessorised like that, 24/7 for going to the grocery store, and I swear I've seen more mud on my Escort more often than on it.

Yeah this is OE rack, more like a luggage rack. I actually did use it once when renting a tall ladder from Home Depot last fall. But, if I ever need to do that again, I'll figure something out.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, clip/clamp on roof bars or something. I have a set which I keep one bar in each vehicle, which HAVE factory racks, then if it's heavy stuff it goes in the middle for extra support and if it's long stuff it goes up front.

[contraption22]

Luggage rack bolts are fine. Windshield is leaking. Guess I gotta find a glass guy.

[black86glhs]

You could get some urethane and after you remove the windshield trim, pack some of it around the windshield. You can take a 1" scraper and force it under the windshield if it has a void or hole there. That is if you want to keep it cheap.