90 degree turn at the collector a bad idea?

[Ondonti]

What would be worse for power production, adding length and an extra bend to the secondaries or hacking off the straight section here and throwing on a 90 degree bend?

I don't even know yet if I will orient these upwards or down.
They are for a 350z but obviously I don't own one. :thumb:
http://www.fuzionetics.com/ebay/new/HJBHD008S_5.jpg


Getting tired of using this.
Cutting it off at the collector would get me close to the fitment I already use for a collector. Its not a big deal if I move the turbo an inch or 2 farther from the intake manifold since I no longer have any stock ecu or wiring or anything in that area at all.

I don't even like thinking about how happy the motor was making 500+/500+ when I had things cranked in winter 2009 when running this stupid front manifold.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/E85%20Stock%203L/IMG_4431.jpg?t=1291703490

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/E85%20Stock%203L/IMG_4438.jpg?t=1291704821

The rear manifold is actually decent. Years ago I had the idea to only use 90 degee angles for the rear log, which is harder to build (not using t's) but looks like it would work a lot better because it directs exhaust flow into the log rather then intersecting with the previous cylinders exhaust flow at a 90 degree angle.
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/E85%20Stock%203L/IMG_4430.jpg?t=1291704913
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/E85%20Stock%203L/IMG_4434.jpg?t=1291704924
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/E85%20Stock%203L/IMG_4588.jpg?t=1291705151
This is a picture from Ed in 2006 back when I had him build the manifold (lived in a student apartment back then and they didn't even want me working on a car)
I think this works a lot better then the front stocker.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8165/att00090kz4.jpg

[bakes]

I would put them in pointing up and cut and start the bend at the o2 bung.
.

[Ondonti]

Here is a heavily ported front manifold that is still down right terrible.
Gives you an idea of what I am wanting to ditch :P
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh426/ondonti/3L%20Technical/IMG_0417.jpg?t=1291705881

[Ondonti]

I would put them in pointing up and cut and start the bend at the o2 bung.
.
Up is what I am thinking if it will fit. Up, i am worried about hood clearance, down, I am worried about running lots of extra bends/pipes.
Down might work since the block is a 60 degree split, so 30 degrees on each side. I could do a little brain math on that I guess and make guesses on picture dimensions to figure out where things will sit. Down might actually fit well, or it might bring me to close to the transmission
In the up position, I will at the very least, lose some of the nice angle the OEM crossover has so i will have to be very crafty on the 2 into 1 collector. Or use the center of a 30 degree bend on each side?
My flange will be a divided t4 so i will keep exhaust banks completely separate until the turbine housing (I have a .96 a/r t4 housing that originally came with my turbo that I am going to use now, maybe try a divided housing in the future if it makes financial sense).


This is Shelby's version of the turbo setup, this shows you the angle things are currently at and how turning the manifolds up would make things interesting.

The 350z manifold pair is about 100 bucks, and possibly only 51 dollars shipped if one of the ebay ad's is correct.
The one posted if the OBX version but the 51 dollar version has a nice equal length design. There are 200 dollar ones that are too lazy to even try to be remotely equal.
100 bucks is very worth me wasting time on this. The crossover will still cost a whole bunch to build just in materials. Will need a new downpipe and wastegate (don't want to use old 38mm tial if I am redoing it, leave that one with my old manifold set for my daily).
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8379/turbooffthecared8.jpg

[GLHNSLHT2]

the entrance you have into the turbo in the above pic leaves a lot to be desired as well.

[Ondonti]

the entrance you have into the turbo in the above pic leaves a lot to be desired as well.

Yeah well the turbo inlet Shelby had cast looks like a terrible design. 2 exhaust paths slamming together and probably no internal divider.


This is an old picture. Looks like down position might not be too terrible. I am going to have to ditch the fan anyways, and I will probably be ditching entire front engine mount and go with the K frame to lower bellhousing area mount that Vigo said Warren is running.

There is actually a decent amount of room in the area below my OEM header crossover flange, especially with the fan gone (maybe install a pusher or see if a slim will fit).
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/4138/img2098dd3.jpg

[bakes]

I think you might have the same problem as im having with my vert is that the rad is really close to the front ex. manifold.

[Ondonti]

Therein being the excitement of the project. Use an imaginary Radiator :P
Possibly cut the flange off and shorten the runners as much as possible if the radiator does not fit. The lower part of the radiator can also be moved forward if I really wanted to make something to hold it in place.

[puppet]

If you're building this up Brent why not go twin turbo? Point the headers foward .. exhaust cutout to empty out each front fender.

[bakes]

Bent do you have any pics of the flanged side???

[Ondonti]

Bent do you have any pics of the flanged side???
http://i.ebayimg.com/05/!B--bOUwEWk~$(KGrHqV,!lMEy+jC5UHtBM-Q59gi2g~~0_12.GIF

Actually a perfect flange for the 3.0. I probably just need to modify the holes a little. The center 2 holes will need redrilling to opposite corners.
Here is a gasket. The one issue might be if the runners are too wide to allow room for bolts to the OEM mounting locations. I don't think they will be if that huge schedule 40 fits.


Twin turbo makes no sense if I already own a proper turbo for what I want. Double the crap in the engine bay, double the wastegates, double the oil lines, double the downpipes. No thanks. The cost would be a very bad idea. Buying 2 new turbos on top of all of that.

I don't have any money to even buy a 50 dollar ebay manifold at this point and my car has not seen a dime beyond 2 tanks of gas and 2 axles in over 12+ months. I think it got a jug of oil twice and one oil filter and one used 12 dollar oil pump.

[Austrian Dodge]

have you considered spal fans?
they're super slim and you could also get spal fans that mount in front of the rad and blow through (although they're not as effective as the ones that mount behind and draw the heat away)

[Ondonti]

Well I have seen there are quite a few options available at summit and jegs. I know there was one variety that was much thinner then the others and it was not the expensive ones.
I am not too worried about the fan efficiency. If it is a problem then it can be addressed in later projects.

The manifolds are something I want to make work regardless of other annoyances. I may just throw in an OEM fan in front, wired backwards if it will fit. The 3.0 fan is slimmer then some of the 2.2/2.5 ones as the engine doesn't stick out.

It might be a problem if the intercooler I want to install in the future install really hurts radiator airflow. Deal with that when it happens.

I would still like some input on the collector. I have seen some collectors actually drop diameter then megaphone back out.....obviously not something that is happening in a 90 degree bend and that makes a bend sound bad.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Whatever gives the smoothest airflow ;)

[Ondonti]

Whatever gives the smoothest airflow ;)

I can't weld you to the collector

[Force Fed Mopar]

I can't weld you to the collector

Nope, I'll kick and scream too much lol.

[Ondonti]

Here is a set that made 1342whp on a 6g7x motor. The location looks similar to a "flipped up" 350z header.

It also has a bend right after the collector plus a v band flange :)
http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/9/6/6/3/5/11.jpg
http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/9/6/6/3/5/10.jpg

[johnl]

Those are some beautiful headers, shame to cut up the small head pipes, better to mess with the collector.

Is there room for a "sweep L" collector?

By that I mean, a big radius?

[Vigo]

I will probably be ditching entire front engine mount and go with the K frame to lower bellhousing area mount that Vigo said Warren is running.


It's not warren, its someone with an L-body.

Although i think Warren has an interesting motor mount setup too.

[black86glhs]

OMG!!! how can you even think of running a 90* turn at the collector???? What are you, crazy!!!?????????
















Just Kidding.:thumb::eyebrows:

[Ondonti]

Those are some beautiful headers, shame to cut up the small head pipes, better to mess with the collector.

Is there room for a "sweep L" collector?

By that I mean, a big radius?

I think you gotta bang me a bit harder over the head so I can understand what you mean. :)
The bend on those above is WAY more gradual then I had been suggesting.

Those are probably baller Burn's slip fit collectors btw. Frank dreams about those.

[johnl]

You grant me too much. Just saying that a big radius turn is better than a tight one and if you have to throw a bend into it, then it ought to be in the collector and not in those pretty spaghetti primaries

[Ondonti]

Yeah well I didn't want to modify the primaries. Sorta blows the pre-fabricated $100 happiness they provide.

I guess if I have room, I might want to look for a large radius bend. I still have no idea where I will locate the wastegate piping. My current manifold locates them near the turbo flange. I will only run 1 wastegate but twin feeds. I don't want to stick the feeds on the bend because I don't want to disrupt flow. More likely a shallow feed angle from the read header crossover side and then a 180 degree loop that blends into the front side crossover at a good angle. 3.0 has an annoying coolant pipe over the trans that is part of that awesomeness in that area.