New ostrich some of the same problems.

[shackwrrr]

I sent my ostrich in for repair to fix the problem covered in this thread

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54022

Well now I got a new one and seem to be having some of the same problems. My car will do fine if the ostrich is plugged into a usb cable but when it is unplugged and I try to start the car it runs like crap. Last time it would just run like crap untill I restarted the car with the usb plugged in. Now I can rev it up a little bit and the car will backfire then it will behave alright.

I am thinking now that maybe I need a socket booster to work with robs latch adapter? Or could there be something else wrong?

Thanks for the help

[ShelGame]

I don't think it should need a booster. At least, not due to the latch adapter...

[x.Gen]

read all the ostrich threads you can here, and look around on moates' forums also. more than a good portion of the time, you'll find out it is something simple and actually not the ostrich. the occasional faulty one will slip thru, but you should isolate all the variables first. AZshadow had this problem earlier, with an SBEC and converter also. if I remember he had a bad ostrich AND a quirky BIN.

first thing to do is isolate the module and socket. have a chip with a stock BIN to test the module with? tossing it in is a quick way to make sure your socket is solid, they can be a cause. either actual stock chip into the socket, or 512 into the converter should give you a clear idea. you really need to be on solid ground with and around the module, dirty/weak contacts at the harness (main to SBEC) could cause a similar issue; sometimes this won't occur until you've removed/installed the SBEC a few times. you will find a few posts on moates' that indicate the booster made a difference (the coincident symptom was needing USB plugged in), but the ones I remember weren't with 512's like we use (and on early GM's if I remember).

next thing is the BIN. don't go straight to Turbonator unless you are 100% on everything else first. it sounds redundant and obnoxious, but I knew very well what I was doing before the ostrich and made some very basic mistakes on the first attempt at loading & running it, leaving me thinking it was a bad ostrich. pretty common reaction. don't know what experience you have with cal's, but it is easy to make simple mistakes if you haven't had a lot of experience.

best thing you can do now is post up step for step what exactly you are doing so everyone can jump in and help. you'll find it sooner than later that way.

[AzShadow]

read all the ostrich threads you can here, and look around on moates' forums also. more than a good portion of the time, you'll find out it is something simple and actually not the ostrich. the occasional faulty one will slip thru, but you should isolate all the variables first. AZshadow had this problem earlier, with an SBEC and converter also. if I remember he had a bad ostrich AND a quirky BIN.

first thing to do is isolate the module and socket. have a chip with a stock BIN to test the module with? tossing it in is a quick way to make sure your socket is solid, they can be a cause. either actual stock chip into the socket, or 512 into the converter should give you a clear idea. you really need to be on solid ground with and around the module, dirty/weak contacts at the harness (main to SBEC) could cause a similar issue; sometimes this won't occur until you've removed/installed the SBEC a few times. you will find a few posts on moates' that indicate the booster made a difference (the coincident symptom was needing USB plugged in), but the ones I remember weren't with 512's like we use (and on early GM's if I remember).

next thing is the BIN. don't go straight to Turbonator unless you are 100% on everything else first. it sounds redundant and obnoxious, but I knew very well what I was doing before the ostrich and made some very basic mistakes on the first attempt at loading & running it, leaving me thinking it was a bad ostrich. pretty common reaction. don't know what experience you have with cal's, but it is easy to make simple mistakes if you haven't had a lot of experience.

best thing you can do now is post up step for step what exactly you are doing so everyone can jump in and help. you'll find it sooner than later that way.

^THIS

i always have all sorts of issues with my car:p lol but the main one was the ostrich was bad...

Like x.gen said, try a SBEC chip directly into the socket and if thats good move to the 512 chip in the adapter. best way to rule out the socket job and the converter.

Also, i bought a booster in an attempt to solve my problem before i found out my ostrich was bad but it didnt do anything (naturally since the ostrich was bad). my research pointed to it prob wouldnt help but i tried it anyways. im currently not running it with the new ostrich however.

[shackwrrr]

Unfortunately I do not have a chip burner and the chips I got from rob were while he was having problems with the code. I have tried the stock cal on the ostrich and the phosphate code both did the same thing.


This time I got my ostrich I hooked it up to my laptop and loaded a basic setup phosphate cal in with no modifications. When I started up the car it started great and had no problems, I drove the car around a little bit and decided it was going to be fine. I went back in the house and later on when I went back to start it up it would start but chug and cough on way too much fuel. I plugged the laptop in and re started the car and it acted fine. I tried it a few times back and forth with the computer disconnected and it was consistent with not starting well with the usb unplugged. After that I tried the stock 2.5MP cal from the repository, same thing. After that I figured I would try the turbonator cal and it even did the same thing but I hooked up my laptop and got it running to try and figure out what is wrong with the code.

[x.Gen]

1 - complete car set-up is what? running wideband?
2 - who socketed the board?
3 - correct in guessing you have no stock SBEC to swap in?
4 - was the car running perfect before trying cal's?
5 - do you have a multi-meter to test for harness continuity and sensor condition?
6 - are you logging yet?
7 - are you comfortable with MPTuner yet?

logging tells you more than anything. otherwise, if you can get a handle on using table watch, sometimes you can isolate where the issue is sourced. it takes some time, you'll have to go thru each table and wait for it to act up, but without a stock module or chip you have to work backwards from the source. I always say only approach this when you're not stressed/in a hurry, otherwise you'll probably pass the obvious.

the warm start-up issue could be a bad O2 sensor, uncalibrated WBO2, missing ground, vapor lock, leaky injectors, just for starters. to get this straight you'll need as much info/data as possible - you really don't want to guess at it.

[shackwrrr]

1 - complete car set-up is what? running wideband?
Yes I have a wideband
2 - who socketed the board?
Rob
3 - correct in guessing you have no stock SBEC to swap in?
I have the stocker
4 - was the car running perfect before trying cal's?
Runs great on stock computer(little rich)
5 - do you have a multi-meter to test for harness continuity and sensor condition?
Yes
6 - are you logging yet?
I can log AFR, TPS, and, Map. RPM currently does not work
7 - are you comfortable with MPTuner yet?
I wouldn't call myself a guru but I have explored all the settings and know it a little bit

logging tells you more than anything. otherwise, if you can get a handle on using table watch, sometimes you can isolate where the issue is sourced. it takes some time, you'll have to go thru each table and wait for it to act up, but without a stock module or chip you have to work backwards from the source. I always say only approach this when you're not stressed/in a hurry, otherwise you'll probably pass the obvious.

the warm start-up issue could be a bad O2 sensor, uncalibrated WBO2, missing ground, vapor lock, leaky injectors, just for starters. to get this straight you'll need as much info/data as possible - you really don't want to guess at it.


Car as it sits now is a stock 2.5 t1 internally. The turbo is a t3/t4 but still runs the stock compressor cover on the 50 trim wheel, the hot side is a .63 stage 2. The exhaust is 3 in from the swingvalve back (swingvalve is a 2.5)
The intake and exhaust manifolds are stock. I have a small intercooler installed with aluminum 2.5 piping and I am running the car at 13~15 psi depending on the weather. The injectors are stock 2.5 t1 units but unfortunately when I first got the car I crushed the regulator to fix a drivablility problem that was actually a dying fuel pump, it now has a walbro 255.

When rob socketed the sbec he used one of his cores and he also installed a latch adapter at the same time.

And one last thing that I completely forgot about untill now, My knock sensor broke on me when I was replacing my injector O-rings. Ive been too poor to buy another but will that cause any problems?


I will work on getting a log tomarrow, I will get you a stock computer log and then one on each of the cals with the usb on and off. I wish the RPM worked though, I had to turn it off because of the noise on the line.

[x.Gen]

first thing I see right off the bat (looking at the post in T-SBEC) is about the crushed regulator. I'm pretty sure the whole curve will be off (biased rich) if you only alter injector size, instead of correcting for base pressure vs. test pressure. that's why the stock is rich. I would think adaptives could cover it, but you need an accurate FP to work with first.

I'm sure there's more to it, but that's a start. logging PW would show it, but so will a/f.

I wouldn't tempt fate with the knock sensor. if you're blind on that sensor, you are begging for trouble.

[turbovanman²]

Knock sensor not hooked up won't cause your issues.

[ShelGame]

Unfortunately I do not have a chip burner and the chips I got from rob were while he was having problems with the code. I have tried the stock cal on the ostrich and the phosphate code both did the same thing.


This time I got my ostrich I hooked it up to my laptop and loaded a basic setup phosphate cal in with no modifications. When I started up the car it started great and had no problems, I drove the car around a little bit and decided it was going to be fine. I went back in the house and later on when I went back to start it up it would start but chug and cough on way too much fuel. I plugged the laptop in and re started the car and it acted fine. I tried it a few times back and forth with the computer disconnected and it was consistent with not starting well with the usb unplugged. After that I tried the stock 2.5MP cal from the repository, same thing. After that I figured I would try the turbonator cal and it even did the same thing but I hooked up my laptop and got it running to try and figure out what is wrong with the code.

I can send you a stock cal on a chip, if that helps. I forget now, though, is your latch adapter soldered in? Or in a socket? It matters to which chip I put it on...

[shackwrrr]

I can send you a stock cal on a chip, if that helps. I forget now, though, is your latch adapter soldered in? Or in a socket? It matters to which chip I put it on...

From what I can see though the gel and glue it looks to soldered directly.

[ShelGame]

No problem. I'll burn it tonight and ship it to you.

[shackwrrr]

No problem. I'll burn it tonight and ship it to you.


Thank you, I am still working on getting that log, its been too freakin cold.

[shackwrrr]

I tried logging today and the logger just didnt want to cooperate, I am seriously thinking of ripping it all out and going back to innovate. I need a garage so I can just sit there and diagnose it and not have to sit in the car with a laptop.

[x.Gen]

what are you running, zeitronix? I've been on the innovate a couple years now, like it. don't think I'd go any other direction at this point. feel your pain on the cold outside, recently had to bust out the heaters in the garage myself.

I don't think a log is immediately necessary. I think if it isn't socket/module/ostrich related, you can work around it in the meantime while you are waiting for Rob's chip. fuel pressure for starters, make sure you are good on that regulator. I don't know how much modification I'd expect the stock diaphram to withstand (never altered one myself). if it were around the ostrich, I don't think that would make it choke up fuel at any point (with/without laptop connected). most of the posts of ostrich issues you'll find are com issues on either side (ribbon or USB). anything is possible, of course, but I would be isolating as many variables as possible now.

if you task at this one thing at a time, it will keep you from freezing or getting frustrated & missing something simple.

[shackwrrr]

It is a tech-edge. I had a lc-1 and it fried before I even got the sensor in, apparently they dont take heat as well as they should.

[x.Gen]

bummer. you aren't very lucky with electronics, are you? I've heard of the occasional issue with LC-1's, but innovate seems to be proactive on support from what I've seen on their forums. if that sensor came from an authorized vendor I'd have griped enough to get an immediate replacement. the controllers, I've yet to see a post where they didn't stand behind it (when you go direct to them). I gave their forums a good run through before I bought mine.

[shackwrrr]

bummer. you aren't very lucky with electronics, are you? I've heard of the occasional issue with LC-1's, but innovate seems to be proactive on support from what I've seen on their forums. if that sensor came from an authorized vendor I'd have griped enough to get an immediate replacement. the controllers, I've yet to see a post where they didn't stand behind it (when you go direct to them). I gave their forums a good run through before I bought mine.

I got an RMA number for my LC-1 back when it broke in april, but unfortunately I already had this one and I drug my feet on sending it back and it still sits here. I wonder if the RMA number is still in their systems? Or I will just pay 40 bucks and get it fixed. I will then probably get an SSI-4 for datalogging since it's only 129.

I figured since I broke the lc-1 I would just build it myself so I got the techedge, but techedge was forced into making their stiff ROhs compliant. That solder is the most horrible stuff to work with, I had my 80w station cranked up just to get it to flow.

[x.Gen]

I got an RMA number for my LC-1 back when it broke in april, but unfortunately I already had this one and I drug my feet on sending it back and it still sits here. I wonder if the RMA number is still in their systems? Or I will just pay 40 bucks and get it fixed. I will then probably get an SSI-4 for datalogging since it's only 129.

time to motivate! can't see why they wouldn't still work with the RMA, worth an email at the very least.

I'd bend Rob's ear for an interface cable (don't know if he's doing them yet) before I went with the SSI-4. they are decent, but for the money - if you're going back to innovate, do the cable and Logworks. you'll get more data out of it that way, and a much easier install.

[shackwrrr]

time to motivate! can't see why they wouldn't still work with the RMA, worth an email at the very least.

I'd bend Rob's ear for an interface cable (don't know if he's doing them yet) before I went with the SSI-4. they are decent, but for the money - if you're going back to innovate, do the cable and Logworks. you'll get more data out of it that way, and a much easier install.

Wouldnt it be a PITA to log off the computer and the wideband at the same time,AND have usb hooked up to the ostrich. Unfortunately my laptop only has 1 usb and 1 serial port so that would be a wiring mess. With the ssi-4 I can used the serial with the ostrich hooked up to usb. It was a thought though, I am also thinking of selling the ostrich and the socketed computer to get one of robs new flashable ones

[x.Gen]

daisy-chaining is an advantage of the SSI-4, but it wouldn't be that hard otherwise. you can use serial on the LC-1, USB for the log. with the Logworks add-in here on the boards, you can sync the feed with the LC-1. sure, you have the "issue" of connection for the ostrich, but if you can eliminate this problem you've had recently - you'd only need ostrich connection to re-flash after you've had a few runs for some data.

after I got on solid ground with my cal, I only needed to hook up for new mods...mostly looking for excuses, like I haven't done a race gas cal yet.

[bakes]

Just buy a usb hub for wal mart for under $20 and then you have as many usb port as you need.

[shackwrrr]

Just buy a usb hub for wal mart for under $20 and then you have as many usb port as you need.

:/ I would probably rip my hair out over all the cables, and the hub would probably need a wire to the cigg lighter.

Maybe once I get this working I can go the bluetooth route with the ostrich. ahh too many options.

[bakes]

:/ I would probably rip my hair out over all the cables, and the hub would probably need a wire to the cigg lighter.

Maybe once I get this working I can go the bluetooth route with the ostrich. ahh too many options.

only have to plug in the usb hub to the pc no other plugs needed

[shackwrrr]

only have to plug in the usb hub to the pc no other plugs needed

Ive never had luck with those types of hubs, 500ma only goes so far.

[Juggy]

my ostrich cable reaches from the smec to my laptop on the passenger seat..but im an L body
I was going to get a hub as well. my comp has 1 USB too

a hub would def make things easy. u could connect everything under the dash with the hub and then run the hub cable to your laptop...only 1 wire causing the mess....

[shackwrrr]

Well I had other problems with the stock SBEC and It ended up being really high resistance on the ground circuit, and I had the o2 sensor hooked up to the knock sensor input. I haven't tried the ostrich yet but have a feeling the ground was my problem.

[turbovanman²]

my ostrich cable reaches from the smec to my laptop on the passenger seat..but im an L body.

Ditto, but mines a van, lol. :eyebrows:

[ShelGame]

Do you still want this 27SF512 chip with your cal on it? For reference? I had it ready to go last week and then I realized I forgot to specify the offset when I burned it. So It needs to get re-burned - I just haven't been in the basement this week at all, trying to get ready for Christmas...

[shackwrrr]

Do you still want this 27SF512 chip with your cal on it? For reference? I had it ready to go last week and then I realized I forgot to specify the offset when I burned it. So It needs to get re-burned - I just haven't been in the basement this week at all, trying to get ready for Christmas...


I will try out my ostrich today to see if it works and let you know. I should be able to know if I am still having problems with the T-sbec code or not tool

[shackwrrr]

Well its better, but still does it. Its fine with the computer plugged in but if you start it with the usb unhooked it will start blowing back smoke but I can rev it up and it will stop but then the AIS freaks out and the rpm begins to climb. There still may be too much resistance in the ground but im not sure. I will try to get a video this next time to figure it out.