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1BADVAN
12-04-2010, 06:02 PM
I have a few questions about the plugs for oil drains,

First Why put them in? afaik the head has no holes there wont that stop anything from coming up? Or will the oil vapors ruin the HG like on the T3 heads when the small oil plug leaks on the back of the head?

Second, does it matter what type of metal the plugs are made of??
again referring to the T3s where the head plugs caused cracking due to different expansion rates?

Third will something like this work?

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/prs-1022_w.jpg

if so i could counter-sink the plugs and do 2 things first not pay to have them machined flat and Second they would be removable if i wanted to go back to a stock head

turbovanmanČ
12-04-2010, 07:20 PM
IIRC, its because they will leak if you don't.

You can use anything you want and the threaded plugs is a good idea.

1BADVAN
12-04-2010, 07:50 PM
leak why? i hear guys are cunter-sinking the plugs and it works?

ShadowBrad
12-05-2010, 05:40 PM
I commented about this in another hybrid thread.


Yes the three holes at the front of our block are simply oil drains for the stock 8-valve head, along with the vent hole between the head and crankcase and the oil feed passage. Yes they are all sealed by the plugs but they should be surfaced level with the block's deck. The three large oil drains in the front of the block need to be level with the surface of the block due to the coolant passages coming very close to them on the 2.4L head and head gasket and some people that have just sunk their plugs below the deck's surface have had coolant leaks in this area. If you don't want to have your block resurfaced after installing the plugs, simply install them slightly below deck and fill in on top of them with a high temp epoxy that will expand/contract with the block. Then after the epoxy hardens level it off as close to the block as you can without gouging the block, then when it's extremely close, take a brand new utility knife blade and scrape across the epoxy with each ends of the blade extending onto the deck's surface. The blade will scrape away at the epoxy without digging into the block making them about as level as you can get by hand. I know others have done this with epoxy, although I don't know what method they used to level the epoxy with the block. I had my block resurfaced, but I didn't know that the plugs I used in the oil drain holes were hollow and I used this method to fill the void in there centers.

ShadowBrad
12-05-2010, 05:42 PM
First Why put them in?

I'm pretty sure that the head and gasket don't completely cover the passages. You don't want stuff going down those passages into your crankcase. ;)

bfarroo
12-06-2010, 07:39 PM
The gasket doesn't cover all of the holes as stated above. I used the square head plugs and ground off the head flush before having the block decked. Using the allen head set screw type pictured above could cause sealing problems with the gap the hole for the allen wrench creates.

ShadowBrad
12-06-2010, 11:30 PM
The gasket doesn't cover all of the holes as stated above. I used the square head plugs and ground off the head flush before having the block decked. Using the allen head set screw type pictured above could cause sealing problems with the gap the hole for the allen wrench creates.

This would be the proper and best method to go about plugging the holes. Using solid plugs in the holes, then grind them down as much as possible then have the block decked. As I stated though, it is possible to sink the plugs below deck then put epoxy on top of them and level the epoxy with the deck. I know of at least one member that used this method to build his 2.5L hybrid without even removing the 8v short block from his van. He put many, many miles on the engine without issues. While the plug/epoxy method isn't the best way to do it, it does work without any longevity problems provided you use the right type of epoxy, prepare the areas properly, and take your time. It's just not necessarily the "right" way to do it. :D

shelbyplaya
12-10-2010, 12:46 AM
I used three 10mm frost plugs with some RTV in each hole and they didnt leak. you should use aluminum glugs to ensure the expantion rates will be simular just to be on the safe side.

ShadowBrad
12-10-2010, 05:14 PM
I used three 10mm frost plugs with some RTV in each hole and they didnt leak. you should use aluminum glugs to ensure the expantion rates will be simular just to be on the safe side.

Are you talking about the drains in the back of the DOHC head? Yes, those can be plugged any way you want to and they can even be countersunk without issue. They hang out over the back of the block so they're really not important.

The drains in the front of the block on the other hand need to be done as stated above.

shelbyplaya
12-11-2010, 09:43 PM
some ppl have use plugs you can pound in with a hammer...

Bardo
01-06-2011, 03:51 AM
what temp epoxy are we talking about here? Would 600deg be ok?

ShadowBrad
01-06-2011, 05:45 PM
That should be perfectly fine. I used a 2 part, industrial strength, 450* epoxy and it worked great. I can't remember who makes it, it was just some stuff my brother had brought home from his friend's machine shop. I do remember each part was in a long square stick that you just cut equal slices off of and kneaded together until it was consistent. It was definitely very tough stuff though.

Bardo
01-14-2011, 07:25 AM
OK I'm going to start on my block when I get home and want to make sure I have a idea of what to do. Brad you said you know someone that did this with the block still in his van. How did they clean all the shavings out the passages? Drop the pan I'm guessing then what, pour oil into to flush them than break cleaner so the rtv and epoxy would stick?

ShadowBrad
01-14-2011, 06:48 PM
The guy that did the conversion with out taking the block out of his van has a thread in the 16v section over on TD. I started looking through the pages but didn't find it, but I know it's there. Honestly, I can't remember if he used plugs that threaded in for the drains or if he used freeze plug style plugs. If you were to use screw in plugs, you seem to have the right idea. Drop the pan when you are threading the holes that way any metal chips will fall out the bottom of the block on to the ground, then rinse the holes out really well with break clean or something of the sort. The tricky hole would be the oil feed hole that needs plugged at the transmission end of the block. Best bet there would be to do this hole first and cover your tap with sticky grease and go really slowly, in small increments to ensure no metal chips get down into the oil passages. Then after you thread the hole, but before you put the plug in, take a drill and spin the I-Shaft so the oil pump will spray oil up and out of the hole to flush anything out just in case. Then drop the pan and do the 3 oil drains and the crankcase vent holes. Like I said in my previous posts though, the guy that did this, sunk his plugs below the block's deck slightly then used epoxy and hand tools to make them flush with the deck. Also keep in mind that this was on a 2.5L. You can use the 8v pistons when building a 2.5L if you want, but a 2.2L requires the 16v pistons.

Bardo
01-14-2011, 09:45 PM
I'm building a 2.5 .020 over.

DaytonaTurboZ
01-16-2011, 12:55 AM
I machined tapered plugs that were approx .004" larger at the top to press fit in. I did this on the head and the block. Worked out very well. I tapped them in till they were perfectly flush. As for the oil feed, I tapped and sealed with a pipe plug.

whywoody
01-27-2011, 01:24 AM
I was the one who built the hybrid in the van....and should be able to answer your questions about how I did it.
I used NPT screw in plugs sunk about an 1/8" below the deck surface. I taped these threads with the pan on from memory, by plugging the holes temporarily. I still have these plugs in my tool box at work. I have a bit of a write up on how I built the engine, most of the info is there, but willing to answer questions on any missing info. It's still alive and well, and have had no problems relating to any of the head and block mods.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2137502/1989-plymouth-voyager

Russ Jerome
01-04-2012, 10:50 PM
https://sites.google.com/site/hybrid16vsteps/
Posted this already but pics are good reference, yes solid plugs are the way to go.