1990 VNT Daytona Refresh and Rebirth

[Twizter68]

Thread is being contined here due to my apparent banning at TD.com...

Anywho, bought the car for $1200, replaced all the brakes, rotors, soft lines, and axles, re-did the rear wheel bearings, new front hubs, did the PDC conversion on the wiring harness, and installed a vac block to fix the constant hard lines fractures. More to come on this, as an S60 VNT conversion is in the planning stages, as well as a better FMIC, etc.

That, and I want to try and breathe some new life into this part of the forum; VNT owners, let's get boosting!:amen:

[omni_840]

Sounds like a good project!

Let's see some pics:)

[Twizter68]

Pics aye! They are a little old, date back to before my last deployment.

[Vigo]

Glad to see you came to the light side. :)

I've got a vnt project in the works. Nothing to post yet, though. :(

Car looks pretty good.

[JohnnyIroc]

what is up with all the VNTs popping up?
nice twin to the one i just picked up
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53766

i too have recently been randomly banned at TD
not sure why....

[Vigo]

i too have recently been randomly banned at TD
not sure why....

Because of RAT's! (random act of tyranny) Perfectly normal over at TD.

[Twizter68]

I got un-banned, but I'm making a couple farewell posts, and then I'm out.

[Twizter68]

JohnnyIroc- Nice looking ride, and we have the same engine bay (both look dirty as hell!)

Let's do our best to get the VNT forum up and running again; there's a lot of good info out there on these cars, but a lot of folks get turned off by the lack of action in here.

VNT's for life!

[raccoon]

I can help with the VNT section, but ill need a pile of VNT parts to convert my car. ;)

[Twizter68]

I'll start digging around! :)

[Twizter68]

Well, here's the plans so far:

Upgrade to VNT28/S60
AFPR
FMIC (already have it)
+20/40 injectors
Socketed SBEC/Ostrich for tuning.
2.5/3" exhaust, cat delete.

BC coil overs if Rich B gets them talked into the set, if not, Koni's modded to coilovers.
Wilwood 4 puck brakes on 13" rotors (SRT Mod)

Planning on Auto-X with this car, thus the mods.

[Twizter68]

Because of RAT's! (random act of tyranny) Perfectly normal over at TD.

I just got banned again due to my Goodbye post in the Board discussion. And they deleted my last two threads!:D:thumb:

[Vigo]

Other than having mods move or rename my threads, or seeing them clean up the threads that get too far off-topic when there's general consent to it, the use of mod powers is invisible here, and thats exactly how it should be. Ive been a forum user for a decade this year, and this forum has the best moderating of any ive ever been on.

You wont see abuse of mod power and the user base around here! T-M does it right.:amen:


As for bringing the VNT section up to par.. i can certainly ask questions until i start my vnt project..:eyebrows:

Like, what do t28s even come on? I hear that a lot of VNT turbos with upgraded compressor sides are using things from t28s, but i dont know what. Like, i think the 'vnt-60' (heard a few different terms) is actually using a 60 trim t28 compressor wheel and not the T3 Super60 wheel. Also, does the t28 use the same style of compressor cover as the VNT turbo, with a big snapring?

[Twizter68]

The VNT28 uses the T28 compressor side attached to the VNT turbine side; the exhaust stays the same. The turbo itself was not actually a Garrett product, it was a modification of the VNT25, as is the S60VNT. From what I've been told, there is an adapter plate to mount the compressor housing onto the unit. I'll scrounge around and see if I can find the pictures someone posted that show the differences.

[Twizter68]

Here we go, picture courtesy of ironbird720!

[Tony Fields]

Still got my VNT, but it's a GTC

Fun driver

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/518/GTCVNTData01_Medium_.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/518/medium/Interior_View_Medium_.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/518/medium/Cincy_Cruise03.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/518/medium/eng03a.jpg

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/518/medium/12a_Medium_1.jpg

[Vigo]

The VNT28 uses the T28 compressor side attached to the VNT turbine side; the exhaust stays the same. The turbo itself was not actually a Garrett product, it was a modification of the VNT25, as is the S60VNT. From what I've been told, there is an adapter plate to mount the compressor housing onto the unit. I'll scrounge around and see if I can find the pictures someone posted that show the differences.

So all i know from this though is that the t25 and t25 use the same shaft size, but different center sections (at least insofar as the compressor housing mount difference) and different compressor covers. I still dont know what a t28 comes on or comes from, and whether the S60 VNT is actually using a t3 wheel and housing or a t28 wheel and housing.

I have the pictures you're talking about. Id like to get an adapter like that that would allow me to just put a t3 wheel and housing on it without having to buy the whole turbo package. Id rather do it myself.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/1000032ti9.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/Vigo327/1000043jk7.jpg

[WickedShelby88]

Wow that is a pretty VNT.. Looks nothing like the one on my mom's shadow with over 150k. It still works, but I've got an overboost issue to work out eventually. Shes got new rubber on it for this winter thank god. I don't know how she did it last year. I want to run a VNT in the 88 yorker I have as well and keep it auto. Similar to your swap Vigo. I'm not sure what is up with her car.. The wrist pin rattle is pretty obvious, but also if you give it some moderate throttle the boost gauge pegs and you get plenty of smoke out the tail. The head was resurfaced and gasket changed with an MP etc. etc. so I don't believe it to be a coolant issue. Temp gauge barely goes to 1/4 and stays there. When I swapped out the coolant bypass valve for straight through heater hoses I had to remove the air box lid and noticed oil in there and in the air filter.. I'm leaning towards seals going out on the turbo, but it doesn't really do it at idle only under moderate boost. Dipstick doesn't pop out and its fine when you drive it normal like my mom would so I just figured to tell her to change the oil more often. Maybe it will live. What are options out there right now to find VNT turbo parts? Are there any go to places and what kinds of inventory would one think is out there? I REALLY think this car already displaces the myth that VNT cars aren't reliable. 150k and 1 blown hg that I know of is hardly unreliable.

[Twizter68]

TU and FWD Performance still have them, and can rebuild them as well.

Replacing the wheel and housing by yourself is possible, but not recommended unless you have the equipment and ability to balance the rotating assembly.

[Vigo]

Wickedshelby, it sounds to me like your PCV system just isnt keeping up under boost because it's not working right, or the blowby in the motor is just overwhelming it.

Under boost, if the PCV cant keep the pressure down in the crankcase, than it will pressurize and you'll have pressure both on the top and bottom of the oil section of the turbo, which can cause it to push oil out the turbine-side seal and then stop as soon as you let off the gas and it burns that little bit off.

[WickedShelby88]

Yeah I'm thinking blowby. There is already a wristpin rattle in the top end and with the freshened up head I can imagine there are plenty of crankcase gases when the car gets into some serious boost. Than I also need to fix the overboost issue which I think has to do with the vanes hanging up a little. bit. I noticed there are supposed to be two roll pins as stops to keep the lever for vane movement to not over travel. One was rusted to nothing which might not be helping things any.

[Twizter68]

Do a compression and leakdown check on it, and let us know what you get per cylinder. If you already have a pronounced wrist pin rattle, you need to start thinking towards at least replacing that piston, if not a complete rebuild. If that wristpin comes loose, the block will be done for...

As for the oil, double check that the PCV valve is working properly; it's a one-way check valve, should only work under vacuum. EDIT: Belay my last, missed where you said the dipstick does not blow out.

[Vigo]

can somebody give me a good description of wristpin noise? Ive got a friend with a 2.5 that ALWAYS sounds like its dying when revved, even immediately after we turned the crank and put new bearings in the bottom.

[Twizter68]

A metallic tapping noise; if you hear it, get a wooden dowel and place it against the valve cover, then rest your ear on it; you then move it around on the VC to see if it's really loud; if so, it's valvetrain noise. If not, move it down to the spark plug recesses, if it's loud on one cylinder, there's the one that's got the fubar'd wristpin.

[cordes]

Thanks for posting the pics regarding the VNT turbos. I'm very interested in the modded VNT turbos even though I don't own a VNT car.

[Vigo]

Hehe so am i. I lucked into having access to the turbo, manifold, and harness/comp, so why not make something unique out of it, i say? People have done turbo limos, sure, but i dont think anyone has done a VNT executive sedan. :p

I did some research to figure out what the deal is with all these upgraded VNT terms i see thrown around.

I think these are some of the terms ive seen: Vnt-60, Vnt-28, vnt s60, Vnt62.

And ive heard the stock vnt be described as a VNT-25. I assume this means that the vnt was built off a t-25 foundation. I dont know a t25 by sight so i dont know what, if anything, a vnt still shares with a t25.

I also dont know what a t28 is. Doing some googling right now, it seems like it is just a t25 with a bigger compressor side. I found some t28 compressor wheel specs that imply it is just a regular t3 60trim or S60 wheel. Dunno about the housing because i still dont know if the t25 uses bolts like a t3, or a snapring like the vnt.

I found this nice website listing a bunch of garrett compressor wheels.
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/compressor.php

Im seeing a few things.
1. There are both 60 and 62 trim t28 wheels that are NOT the same as any t3 wheels on the list.
2. The largest t3 wheel is a 60 trim (already knew this).
3. The t28 and t3 wheels use the same shaft size.
4. The t28 and t3 wheels have different blade counts.

So we can infer a few things:
1. It's possible there have been upgraded VNTs using both t3 and t28 wheels.
2. I still dont know what a t28 compressor cover is as far as how its attached.
3. I still dont know if the t28 has an OEM application. I only see it talked about as an 'upgrade'.
4. If a Vnt-60 is made using a t3 wheel, that still doesnt tell me whether its a 'regular 60' (ala 2.3 ford) or a 'Super 60'. Granted, that is a somewhat minor distinction if you look at the compressor maps.
5.You can tell which style of wheel an upgraded VNT is using by counting the blades on the compressor wheel.


For what its worth, in my googling i also saw that a t28 (presumably 60 or 62 trim) has dynoed 350whp on something. So, assuming we open up the exhaust side (which realistically means external wastegate on a manifold designed to accomodate it), a vnt using the biggest t28 wheels could support that much airflow/power.

[vipernbox]

I can help with the VNT section, but ill need a pile of VNT parts to convert my car. ;)




What parts besides of course the turbo and the SBEC are VNT specific?


Oh... and I just picked up a blue one myself tonight... Drove it long enough the turbo seems to be fine... but it has a dead miss... and noise from number 2...

[Vigo]

The airbox and charge plumbing were only used on vnt and a small number of other cars, but that stuff doesnt do anything special. Also the exhaust manifold itself is different in that it has a through-hole on one corner instead of a stud. Also sorta minor.

[Twizter68]

What parts besides of course the turbo and the SBEC are VNT specific?


Oh... and I just picked up a blue one myself tonight... Drove it long enough the turbo seems to be fine... but it has a dead miss... and noise from number 2...

The solenoid system- there are 4 solenoids, 3 of which are for the VNT.

[vipernbox]

Great info! Thanks..

The car is pretty rough all over... So if I decide not to make it a driver... I'll let you know.. I am going to try to save it though... I think...

[Twizter68]

Give us some pics, vipernbox...mebbe we can come up with some ideas for you!

[vipernbox]

Give us some pics, vipernbox...mebbe we can come up with some ideas for you!

Oh please do not do that... This is what happened to the last one of these I had that was this rough and slated as a parts car... ( just a T2 car... )

I always wanted a targa top Daytona... and ended up with this.. :love:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x236/ronholm/19454_255743658673_797013673_322816.jpg



And this car would be perfect for that... Or a LeMons car.. :evil:


There isn't a straight panel... None of them have any major ugly.. but all of them are bruised... and the floor is gone at the drivers kick panel.. Interior is all pretty much there.. but pretty rough in the typical places.. If it was a 'S' car I would save it for sure... in some kind of resto-mod fashion.. I love a a good daytona.. but sorry they just don't inspire me to do a bunch of work to try and save one this used up... VNT or not..

I don't have much in it though.. and would sure be open to sending it to a good home if somebody has a the willingness to save it... and a couple bucks to cover what I have in it....


I am thinking though... my Sand Rail was going to get a 2.2/2.5 turbo... and I had picked up that 88 Shelby Z to give up a couple things to the cause when this fell in my lap... VNT dune buggy anyone???

[Twizter68]

A duct Tape Daytona???

That is...

BAD AZZ!

[Twizter68]

Hey, with some hammer and dolly loving, and judicious use of a mig welder, anything can be fixed...show us the car...

[vipernbox]

I will have it at my place this weekend... I planned on driving it home... but it wanted nothing to do with that last night...

[Twizter68]

%$#@!&*%!-ing hood latch!

Anyone know an adjustment to keep the hood release from opening up all by itself?

[Vigo]

Well, first we need to know why its doing it. Its probably that the mechanism isnt springing all the way back after you pull the hood release. If so it just needs to have some lube or some corrosion taken off.

[Twizter68]

Well, first we need to know why its doing it. Its probably that the mechanism isnt springing all the way back after you pull the hood release. If so it just needs to have some lube or some corrosion taken off.

Did that already; 2 months ago, as part of my post long term storage inspection. Re-lubed it last week. I hit a small bump in the road, it pops up onto the safety catch.

[vipernbox]

Give us some pics, vipernbox...mebbe we can come up with some ideas for you!

Hey... Moving my attempted thread highjack about my beat up neglected VNT over here...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=747305#post747305

[wm23n1]

Sure love those 90-91 blue Shelby Ds !

[wm23n1]

[QUOTE=Twizter68;742891]Thread is being contined here due to my apparent banning at TD.com...QUOTE]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO........ YOU GOT BANNED AT turbododge? :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Twizter68]

Keep the TD-TM drama out of here...this thread is for VNT stuff.

[wm23n1]

oops sorry.

[Vigo]

Did that already; 2 months ago, as part of my post long term storage inspection. Re-lubed it last week. I hit a small bump in the road, it pops up onto the safety catch.

Well, in that case i would look at the actual thing that gets clamped when you close the hood. Does yours have one of those little coil springs around a stud coming down from the hood? I dont know daytonas well.

[Twizter68]

1st thing I looked at; it does not seem worn...

[Twizter68]

Okay, pulled the latch assembly, cleaned it off (again!), re-lubed it, and replaced the spring.

Turns out the NLG downlock switch spring from certain aircraft is the right size lengthwise, but much stronger than the stock spring.

[Twizter68]

Okay fellas, I'm back! Sorry for the quiet time, I got busy getting retired, moving back to Texas, and finding a new job...but the car has been running great, even managed to fix the hood popping issue (Pin was bent).

[cordes]

Glad to hear it is running well. Good luck with the job search.

[Vigo]

Where in Tx are you?

[Twizter68]

West side of Fort Worth, town called Weatherford. Got a job already, start Monday in Grapevine.

[Twizter68]

Got the car inspected yesterday (switched to Texas plates) The tech was amazed at how clean it was and ran...he said he gets brand new cars in that burn that clean on the sniffer!