My toy, turbo 420A or 2.0L Neon motor

[QC DSM ESiT]

Hey guys I am now an owner of a 89 Turbo Caravan but I thought I would tell you guys about my main project. It is a Eagle Talon ESi which is originally a 2.0L non-turbo. I then put the Hahn Racecraft Stage 2 turbosystem on it and a lot of other goodies on there as well. I'm now boosting 9PSI daily on it and the best I've gotten so far was a 14.5 @ 97MPH. Anyway here is some more information on the car: http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1136

Here are some pictures of the car also:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/QCDSMESiT/DSC02135.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/QCDSMESiT/DSC01711.jpg

Here is the engine bay with just the Stage 1 on it so there wasn't an intercooler on it but that's basically the only thing different from the way it is now. I don't have any up to date engine bay photos cause my engine bay looks like crap.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a123/QCDSMESiT/DSC01090.jpg

[Speedeuphoria]

I like the wheels, intercooler, and the way the muffler sits
nice

[WVRampage]

Thats nice,but just wondering how hard It would be to put in a 4G63,allthough with the 420A you could go to a 2.4 and build it like a SRT,with a wicked ported indy head on it.

[QC DSM ESiT]

Thats nice,but just wondering how hard It would be to put in a 4G63,allthough with the 420A you could go to a 2.4 and build it like a SRT,with a wicked ported indy head on it.

Putting a 4G63 is a lot of work and most people don't bother. They instead do exactly as you were saying. They will put 2.4L motors that are built up and then they will turbo them. There are a few I've seen that are pretty fast. I even saw a 2.4 stroked to a 2.6 that was built up and turboed but I don't think he ever got it tuned very well and I really haven't seen much of it since. They're fun cars but it does take some money and work to get them to see lower quarter times.

[Frank]

ForceFed420a, a good friend of mine, is looking at doing something similar.... here is a general thread about his car as it stands now.
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=916


Frank

[r00tcause]

Putting a 4G63 is a lot of work and most people don't bother. They instead do exactly as you were saying. They will put 2.4L motors that are built up and then they will turbo them. There are a few I've seen that are pretty fast. I even saw a 2.4 stroked to a 2.6 that was built up and turboed but I don't think he ever got it tuned very well and I really haven't seen much of it since. They're fun cars but it does take some money and work to get them to see lower quarter times.

The stroke would be WAY to long if it was a 2.6, its bad enough on the 2.4.

[glhs875]

Nice looking car.

[Darkapollo]

I have never seen a 4g63 swap, it just plain wont work with out fabrication of brackets and mounts and crap like that. The engine sits opposite like a honda and it requires all of the wiring and other supporting chassie modifications. The non-turbo DSMs are just glorified Neon's. With just sheet metal as the only relation to the turbo DSMs. I drive a 3g GS and I would have to get an EVO VIII 4g63 if I wanted to swap from my 4g64. But that really is not an option on your car. 420a being a dodge engine not a mitsubishi.

A friend of mine just turboed his 420a. When it runs it runs like a factory turbo car. W H E N it runs. There really is no good way to make the non turbos fast. You can turbo the 420a and run into problems, or you could build up an NA car that runs somewhat decently. But I would be hard pressed to find an NA that didnt require a TON of work to make them fast. Plus its a 2g, so you have the heaviest NA DSM, you would have to strip out a lot of the useless metal to lighten it.
Just a lot of work.

BTW, that ESi is s3xy.

[QC DSM ESiT]

I have never seen a 4g63 swap, it just plain wont work with out fabrication of brackets and mounts and crap like that. The engine sits opposite like a honda and it requires all of the wiring and other supporting chassie modifications. The non-turbo DSMs are just glorified Neon's. With just sheet metal as the only relation to the turbo DSMs. I drive a 3g GS and I would have to get an EVO VIII 4g63 if I wanted to swap from my 4g64. But that really is not an option on your car. 420a being a dodge engine not a mitsubishi.

A friend of mine just turboed his 420a. When it runs it runs like a factory turbo car. W H E N it runs. There really is no good way to make the non turbos fast. You can turbo the 420a and run into problems, or you could build up an NA car that runs somewhat decently. But I would be hard pressed to find an NA that didnt require a TON of work to make them fast. Plus its a 2g, so you have the heaviest NA DSM, you would have to strip out a lot of the useless metal to lighten it.
Just a lot of work.

BTW, that ESi is s3xy.

Your right it is a lot of work, but if you do it right it won't be a typical unreliable DSM. If you know what to watch and you know your limits then there won't be any problems. I used this Talon as a daily driver for 4 years now and never had a problem. I spent the extra money on good supples to make sure everything is going good while driving though. Yeah overall it would be most cost effective to just moddify a factory turbo DSM but I like the challenge and being a little different from all of the other DSM's out there. Thanks for the complements guys. I look forward to doing more stuff with my Caravan now and I hope to talk with more of you guys later. :thumb:

[Darkapollo]

IM AM SOOOO GLAD you didnt take what I said as an insult. I too like to walk the line a little different then everyone else. Right now I have 90% of the turbo parts for my eclipse sitting in my basement, just ran out of funds to get the project finished.
I am a dsmer born and raised (from my interest in cars anyway.. my dad is a muscle car head)
I didnt mean to be insulting when i said 'glorified neon' either, I just feel that dodge/mitsu dropped the ball when they made the 2g. Leave the 4g63nt in the NA has always been my stand.

The only reason the 7bolt is considered unreliable is because they had casting issues that made the rear main wear overly fast. the 6bolt of the earlier years never had the problem

[r00tcause]

How's about I actually post something useful?

Swap the block out for a 2.4 block, drill a hole for turbo oil return, use srt4 rods and pistons and put your reverse 420 head and manifolds on top of that with a hahn racecraft turbo and manifold.

The hard part is electronics. I'd say go with SDS.

[QC DSM ESiT]

How's about I actually post something useful?

Swap the block out for a 2.4 block, drill a hole for turbo oil return, use srt4 rods and pistons and put your reverse 420 head and manifolds on top of that with a hahn racecraft turbo and manifold.

The hard part is electronics. I'd say go with SDS.

Quite I a few people are doing that on the 2GNT forums right now actually. I however don't have the money to be doing something like that at the moment. Heck I don't even have the money afford forged interals just so I can boost more in the 2.0L I already have. Maybe one day I will but this is going to be the way it stays for a while now.


I didnt mean to be insulting when i said 'glorified neon' either, I just feel that dodge/mitsu dropped the ball when they made the 2g. Leave the 4g63nt in the NA has always been my stand.

The only reason the 7bolt is considered unreliable is because they had casting issues that made the rear main wear overly fast. the 6bolt of the earlier years never had the problem

Don't worry about the glorified neon because your basically right. Plus I hear it all time it is basically a better/cooler looking Neon. I say the DSM's are unreliable only because 90% of the time people think they are unreliable because they only ever hear of how they are always being fixed and how they are always not running right. What most people don't know is that people moddify them so much that they get that way. For most other vehicles the same is true if you moddify them so extreme. They are a great car to moddify and I guess thats why the have a unreliable reputation. I have nothing against the 7 or 6 bolts either. I think both are good engines and that the 2G N/A should have just been the 4G63nt like in the 1G N/A were too it would make it a lot easier to do stuff with my car if they would have just kept it that way.

[Aries_Turbo]

Just a few comments. :)

1. Nice car. I like the way it sits and the RFL in the engine bay.

2. Forcefed420a is one of my buddies and he built his car in my yard. right now he is getting the bugs worked out of it cause its all custom made. no kit.

3. Megasquirt is really the way to go with those cars EFI wise cause its so easy to implement, inexpensive and well documented.

4. I dont agree with the comment that the 4g63na would have been the better engine for the NA cars from a mods standpoint. youd have to do everything you are doing now and youd still end up with an engine that needs pistons and rods, has a less strong bottom end (block) and has the risk of crankwalking. I think the neon engine has a better $$/mod ratio when you get down to modding it.

5. Id rather have the neon and the 400 less lbs. :)

Keep up the good work. :)

Brian

[QC DSM ESiT]

Just a few comments. :)

1. Nice car. I like the way it sits and the RFL in the engine bay.

2. Forcefed420a is one of my buddies and he built his car in my yard. right now he is getting the bugs worked out of it cause its all custom made. no kit.

3. Megasquirt is really the way to go with those cars EFI wise cause its so easy to implement, inexpensive and well documented.

4. I dont agree with the comment that the 4g63na would have been the better engine for the NA cars from a mods standpoint. youd have to do everything you are doing now and youd still end up with an engine that needs pistons and rods, has a less strong bottom end (block) and has the risk of crankwalking. I think the neon engine has a better $$/mod ratio when you get down to modding it.

5. Id rather have the neon and the 400 less lbs. :)

Keep up the good work. :)

Brian

I do understand that bugs definitly need to be worked out of turboing any NA motor espically if your piecing and making the kit yourself too. Within time I'm sure everything will be worked out and his car will be pulling like no other. Good luck to you guys also. :thumb:

Yeah I plan on going to Megasquirt whenever I get the block built up. I've heard nothing but good things about the whole setup.

The only reason I say the 4G63NA would have been a better choice from the factory is that it would be much easier to just convert it to a 4G63T instead of trying to turbo a NA car but if I wanted to do something easy I would have just bought a 1G AWD turbo and played around with it then but wheres the fun in that.

Also to me with this car its not all about speed. It's fun to just go for a cruise in a good looking and reasonably fast car. True the Neon's are quite a bit lighter but I don't think I would ever like to just go and cruise in something like that, but to each there own.

[WVRampage]

A while back I got the chance to drive a modded 1g 2 wheel drive and a 1g awd and both were turbod and were fast but had many problems,trans and engine.

[Aries_Turbo]

The only reason I say the 4G63NA would have been a better choice from the factory is that it would be much easier to just convert it to a 4G63T instead of trying to turbo a NA car but if I wanted to do something easy I would have just bought a 1G AWD turbo and played around with it then but wheres the fun in that.

I understand now. :) Id still be leery of crankwalk. I read somewhere (and it makes sense) that the newer 4g63 in the 2g cars were more prone to crankwalk due to the different design of the piston squirters that could bleed off too much oil pressure. lose those squirters (or mod them) and you fare better in the crankwalk arena.

plus parts for the 4g63 are sometimes more expensive due to the ricer crowd. To each his own though. :)



Also to me with this car its not all about speed. It's fun to just go for a cruise in a good looking and reasonably fast car. True the Neon's are quite a bit lighter but I don't think I would ever like to just go and cruise in something like that, but to each there own.

yeah im a 99% speed and handling dude. thats why I drive what I drive. My wife has a 98 DOHC neon (auto ugh) that Id like to confiscate in a few years and go to town on it. :P hehe

Brian

[Darkapollo]

nope. that isn't why they walked.
when the block was cast the rear main journal was not cast straight. it is off by i believe .01'' or maybe less. either way because it is not true there will be less oil on part of the journal causing excess wear. when this wear gets bad enough if you push the clutch in you can actally watch the RPMs change rather drasticly. (i was in a crankwalked 2g and the rpms changed about 500RPM!) This did not start in the 2g years either. it started in 93 (92.5 for purests) which was still 2 years remaining in the 1g run.

and please, the 4g63 is not expensive because of the RICER crowd.. this is not a honda. it is not the 'holy' b16/b18.. you can get a 4g63 out of a non turbo and because it is the same block you just have to do what we TD guys do to make an SRT-4 engine out of an NA 2.4..
new rods, pistons, bearrings.. and NEW CAMS! the NA cams are poop to boost with.

[Aries_Turbo]

nope. that isn't why they walked.
when the block was cast the rear main journal was not cast straight. it is off by i believe .01'' or maybe less. either way because it is not true there will be less oil on part of the journal causing excess wear. when this wear gets bad enough if you push the clutch in you can actally watch the RPMs change rather drasticly. (i was in a crankwalked 2g and the rpms changed about 500RPM!) This did not start in the 2g years either. it started in 93 (92.5 for purests) which was still 2 years remaining in the 1g run.


that doesnt make sense.... after a block is cast, the final tolerances are machined. ive also read that cranks were off too so your block theory isnt very watertight. ive read a pictoral writeup on the oil squirters being tapped off a sketchy location on the oil gallery that feeds the crank and if they stick, the main and thrust gets too little oil. either way, they can walk the crank plank..... thats something that I wouldnt want to deal with.


and please, the 4g63 is not expensive because of the RICER crowd.. this is not a honda. it is not the 'holy' b16/b18.. you can get a 4g63 out of a non turbo and because it is the same block you just have to do what we TD guys do to make an SRT-4 engine out of an NA 2.4..
new rods, pistons, bearrings.. and NEW CAMS! the NA cams are poop to boost with.

where can you get rods and pistons that are proven to 500+hp for 200$ brand new... puhleez. not a chance for a 4g63. ever since FnF came out, the import market prices have skyrocketed.... FnF drives the ricer crowd. now all kinds of folks are humping the drift craze and AE86's and 240's are going to jump in price.

oh well, it doesnt effect me :)

Brian

[Darkapollo]

Odd, I know many DSMs running in the +500hp range for fairly cheap..
I dont give a crap if you think MY theory is water tight or not, I hang with diehard DSMers I think they would know better then a dodge guy... They never mentioned anything about oil squirters being bad.

[Aries_Turbo]

im not trying to start arguements. im also not just a dodge guy... im a VW guy, GM/Fiero/S-10 guy, Nissan guy, and have done quite a bit of research in the 4g63 arena when I was looking at 2.0T Dodge colt conversion. :)

I also dont just take what I hear as fact from "hard core" guys... I do my homework.

ive also seen quite a few DSM's blow up at the 450-500whp level cause the bottom end couldnt take it stock.

either way, people are making some pretty sick cars on both sides of the fence and I hope they continue.

Brian