Anyone ever run a car on propane?

[RattFink]

I've been throwing around this idea in my head lately. I think it would be cool to run a car on propane. Anybody ever do this? What does it take? I know its better for the environment and your engine, not really many downfalls to it. I've done a little research on it. Seems like it would be easy on a carberated car, what about fuel injection? Any input appreciated. I'm seriously considering doing this. I can get 20% off propane fill-ups at my work.

[TonaChris]

I worked at a propane ccompany when i was a teenager. All there cars and even big trucks were converted to propane. I believe for a gas engine conversion they just had tanks, lines and the carb/regulator unit. Im sure theres plenty of websites about it.

[RattFink]

I've searched a little bit online, there doesn't seem to be as much info as I thought there would be. I found a fork-lift junkyard in Atlanta, I probably could go there and get everything I need as alot of fork-lifts have car engines in them. Now I just need a car with a carberator lol.

[fishcleaner]

a 1963 Corvair Spyder turbo running on propane held a land speed record in its class for ever, so propane works, Mothers built a state of the art propane injected Chevy

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/31/sema-2007-1-000-hp-propane-chevelle-by-mothers/

[shackwrrr]

It is quite hard to find info on the systems available. Most of the new systems are piggyback style and have a set of injectors like a normal mpfi. The prins VSI setup is a nice setup and really easy to use and is tunable. The conversion process is pretty in depth and there are lots of codes to follow but after the conversion the drivability is absolute awesomeness. Placement of the lines, the type of the lines and the placement of everything is critical.

this covers all the codes
http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?title=Code-58-2011-Liquefied-Petroleum-Gas-Code&pid=5811&target_pid=5811&src_pid=54HCD02&link_type=cross_sell

[RattFink]

I was kinda thinking I would findd an old carb. omni, throw some parts off a forklift on it, and see what happens. I understand there is all kinds of safety code and whatnot, but would I have to get the car inspected if I converted it? I figured nobody would find out unless they popped the hood lol.

[shackwrrr]

ehhh, yea you could do that. Basicaly it is just fire safety code. If you dont follow it, its your a$$ that gets burned when something fooks up. A carb setup would work great for an omni and just crank the timing. The 305 at school that is converted to propane has 30 degrees of base timing.

Propane can permeate normal rubber hose so you need propane certified hose from the tank to the engine bay. You also need a fuel lockoff so fuel can only flow when the engine is running.

a 22r toyota kit would propably do you well. you would either to have to figure out the carb though since the propane carb bolts to the throttle body portion of the gas carb.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-TRUCK-22R-ENGINE-COMPLETE-PROPANE-CONVERSION-KIT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem29fce8be45QQitemZ18033 6770629QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

[GLHS60]

I have had many propane vehicles and still have 2 today, a 1984 Dodge 4x4 pickup and a 1986 Chevy van. I like the ones that were originally carbed as the system is so simple rather than the newer electronic ones. Also the drivability with propane is excellent, smooth slow idle, no hesitation, no oil contamination and NO fuel pump. I've been contemplating a Propane Turbo Mopar for years but haven't found time yet.

Thanks
Randy

[MopàrBCN]

In Europe this is quite common. One of my Lebarons ran on LPG (Liquid Propane Gas). In Europe until 2020 LPG is Tax Free so a liter of LPG costs between 50 and 90 cents as opposed to 1.20 - 1.60 Euro per liter of gasoline (depending on country).

The system is quite easy: In it's simplest form you have a single point injection and ideally you get multi point injection, a gas tank (usually in form of your spare tire so you can place it there) and some electronics to autoswitch between fuel and gas.

Your fuel system stays in place. Once the Gas tank is empty it automatically switches back to fuel.

In commercial live, you lose some performance and your gas economy is roughly 10% worse then compared to fuel. This is due to the fact that the Electronics are piggy bagged over the stock ECU. Stoichmetic is different as well. You still need fuel as well for start up, as the GAS Electronics can't handle this.

However, in our case it is a different story, as we can manipulate our ECU's. And my daytona will get LPG this is 100% sure. Because LPG as far as I recall is rated at 110 octane so on a proper tune this is nearly as good as race gas. At least in theory. But I will prove this point.

In Europe the kits are priced around 500-1000 Euros. This includes everything. SO goolge for LPG and you should find tons of information - as well in english.

[RoadWarrior222]

I think there was a conversion kit in the market for carbed 2.2s back in the day, some guy on allpar had an early mini with one on.

Also Mitsu 2.6 and 3.0s should be "easy" since they have both been used as industrial motors for forklifts.

Due to oversupply, Natural Gas is going to be a bargain for the next couple of years, though.

[RattFink]

I did see that the Mitsu 2.6 was used in forklifts. I need to find an old conquest and convert it over. That would be awesome! I just don't really see any downfalls to using LPG/propane/natural gas.

[shackwrrr]

I did see that the Mitsu 2.6 was used in forklifts. I need to find an old conquest and convert it over. That would be awesome! I just don't really see any downfalls to using LPG/propane/natural gas.

the availability of it is the big one but if you have a station near your house and only use the car as a go getter then you are golden. I wouldn't want to plan a whole trip around where the stations are. Unless you are talking about using lift truck tanks which aren't recommended because the 130 degree temps inside the car would make the PRV (pressure relief valve) close to popping off. I would recommend a permanent tank with maybe a lift truck tank as a backup

[RattFink]

I would only use the car to go to work and back. There is a fill station at my work where I can get %20 off propane! That's my main reason for wanting to do it.

[shackwrrr]

I would only use the car to go to work and back. There is a fill station at my work where I can get %20 off propane! That's my main reason for wanting to do it.

thats a good reason to convert then.

[black86glhs]

Toyota used the 22r in tons of fork lifts. We had them at the plant when I was there. Find an old on and rob it of the parts.

[zin]

The system is quite easy: In it's simplest form you have a single point injection and ideally you get multi point injection, a gas tank (usually in form of your spare tire so you can place it there) and some electronics to autoswitch between fuel and gas.

Your fuel system stays in place. Once the Gas tank is empty it automatically switches back to fuel.

This sounds intriguing, I doubt they would be legal here though... The US EPA, pretty much diss-allows any conversion on emissions certified vehicles, even if it results in lower emissions... More government BS... but it you don't have to subject yourself to smog inspection, I'm sure it would be doable!


In commercial live, you lose some performance and your gas economy is roughly 10% worse then compared to fuel. This is due to the fact that the Electronics are piggy bagged over the stock ECU. Stoichmetic is different as well. You still need fuel as well for start up, as the GAS Electronics can't handle this.

The loss is due to less BTU/energy in the LPG compared to gasoline, but that can be made up for, if you increase the compression, 11-12:1 shouldn't be a problem, but then you are committed to LPG only!

The only real downside to propane is the expansion, it takes up a lot more room in the intake... So, you may need an induction system capable of 500HP on gas, to net 300HP on propane (not real numbers just for illustration purposes).

Mike

[RattFink]

1985 and older vehicles here don't need emissions, so If I could find an 85 carb omni 5-spd I would be good to go!

[Aries_Turbo]

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_LPG-Vapour-Injection/A_110066/article.html

Brian

[RoadWarrior222]

Damn that gives me ideas... anyone got 6 vapor canister purge solenoids handy?

[cordes]

My father ran a /6 D150 on propane for some time. He stroked it and bumped up the compression if I recall correctly. He said it did a little better than the gas version performance wise that way. I think it would have been too anemic to function otherwise.

[zin]

My father ran a /6 D150 on propane for some time. He stroked it and bumped up the compression if I recall correctly. He said it did a little better than the gas version performance wise that way. I think it would have been too anemic to function otherwise.

Much like alky or many other "alternative" fuels, if you don't build the engine for it, it is likely to disappoint... Unless your goal is simply a dual fuel vehicle... Personally, I'd go with diesel, you can burn just about anything in one of those!

Mike

[Badger]

if you were serious about converting to propane, I have a couple friends with very fast turbo corvairs that ran on propane. They are excellent mechanics and very schooled in propane. They live in Anaheim.

[cordes]

Much like alky or many other "alternative" fuels, if you don't build the engine for it, it is likely to disappoint... Unless your goal is simply a dual fuel vehicle... Personally, I'd go with diesel, you can burn just about anything in one of those!

Mike

He actually has gone to the diesel and is bring about anything in them. :nod:

[WickedShelby88]

propane really seems like good stuff. Our forklift runs off the stuff and the oil stays exceptionally clean. Also I just saw a Swan truck today and sure enough it was LP powered. Had a sticker on the side that said LPEFI and I saw the tank hanging down that would normally be gas, but was LP.

[shackwrrr]

propane really seems like good stuff. Our forklift runs off the stuff and the oil stays exceptionally clean. Also I just saw a Swan truck today and sure enough it was LP powered. Had a sticker on the side that said LPEFI and I saw the tank hanging down that would normally be gas, but was LP.

All schwans trucks are liquid propane injected. They liked the setup so much that schwans bought the company (bi-phase tech). They use an electric pump in the tank that pressurizes the line up to the injector. The injector has a tube in the center that collects the vapor and the vapor returns to the tank through a vapor line that runs inside the main fuel line. Its a pretty nifty setup

[turbodaytona87]

One thing that I didn't think was mentioned, is that technically you can't have a propane tank in the passenger compartment. So a Daytona/Omni would not legally work.

But if no one checks, no problems right:eyebrows:

[zin]

One thing that I didn't think was mentioned, is that technically you can't have a propane tank in the passenger compartment. So a Daytona/Omni would not legally work.

But if no one checks, no problems right:eyebrows:

I would assume you would be hanging a tank under the car... but if it's going to be dual fuel, then it could get a bit tight/expensive...

Mike

[shackwrrr]

I would just box in part of the trunk area and make the trunk essentially external.

[sabrina]

With propane, a greater quantity is required to travel the same distance. But because of its gaseous form, your engine runs more efficiently which helps offset the extra propane consumed.

[trannybuster]

Id do a google search, some of these replies are just opinions..

[shadow88]

This subject keeps coming up and I still haven't found a reliable place to get the info for a dual fuel conversion. I'm thinking I'll just call up Zin and order what I think I need to make it happen.

[DodgeZdad]

This subject keeps coming up and I still haven't found a reliable place to get the info for a dual fuel conversion. I'm thinking I'll just call up Zin and order what I think I need to make it happen.

Contact "Impco". They are largest propane and conversion company.
I installed in the early eighties, hundreds of the dual fuel "Pro-Carb" systems using our own carburetors and regulators from Garrison out of Iowa.
I was the first to install the system on a 81 Reliant, Plymouth 2.6 truck. I also ran my 79 Olds Cutlass and 73 Chevy truck on the stuff.
I think Garrison developed his systems first for farm tractors and of course, pumps which stand idle for long periods time and the gas would get old.

Since propane is high octane, it runs super good on high compression engine. We did some test on diesel engines in which the additional fuel cleaned up the emissions and give more power to them.

I held the certificate to install, manufacturer, dispense for our company and I can't tell you for your safety and others you should get the right books on how to install the system.

We and just about everybody in the business except Impco ran out of money to take on the computer controlled autos. I wouldn't know how to start on the new cars and would just buy one. I think Ford and Honda makes them now.

Hope this helps a little.

[shadow88]

Good contact info, but I had something a little different in mind. I was thinking to use propane as sort of a boost for our turbocharged cars. More fuel, higher octance, and cooler intake charge all in one. I was looking into a small "dry " system some time ago, but I never have made the time to get into it, nor have I found the literature and safety information on a liquid propane additive. I've been passively searching for about a year.

[shackwrrr]

Good contact info, but I had something a little different in mind. I was thinking to use propane as sort of a boost for our turbocharged cars. More fuel, higher octance, and cooler intake charge all in one. I was looking into a small "dry " system some time ago, but I never have made the time to get into it, nor have I found the literature and safety information on a liquid propane additive. I've been passively searching for about a year.

Depends on what you want to do, you could set it up like a nitrous system injecting liquid propane, but it would require a VERY small jet and probably a PWM capable solenoid. But keep in mind propane changes pressure at different temps like refrigerant (well technically it is one)

Next choice would be to use a vacuum referenced regulator and modify it to only add fuel in boost (tighter spring)

Then finally would be to use a standard regulator with an electric lock off(some have one built in) and wire it to a hobbs switch set at the desired boost.

the second two would need to be before the turbo the first one could be in the intake.

I think it would be nice to do it for a turbo swapped onto an N/A car, Keep the stock fuel system with 87 for out of boost and as soon as the boost starts the 110 octane propane starts and adds fuel needed for boost. You would keep your fuel mileage out of boost and you would have safe octane for the stock N/A engine.

[DodgeZdad]

Depends on what you want to do, you could set it up like a nitrous system injecting liquid propane, but it would require a VERY small jet and probably a PWM capable solenoid. But keep in mind propane changes pressure at different temps like refrigerant (well technically it is one)

Next choice would be to use a vacuum referenced regulator and modify it to only add fuel in boost (tighter spring)

Then finally would be to use a standard regulator with an electric lock off(some have one built in) and wire it to a hobbs switch set at the desired boost.

the second two would need to be before the turbo the first one could be in the intake.

I think it would be nice to do it for a turbo swapped onto an N/A car, Keep the stock fuel system with 87 for out of boost and as soon as the boost starts the 110 octane propane starts and adds fuel needed for boost. You would keep your fuel mileage out of boost and you would have safe octane for the stock N/A engine.

There was a guy running a SRT-4 several years ago for drag racing with a propane tank in the trunk using it a a "race" by injecting liquid. I can't remember but I think it was at one of the national meets in Ohio or Indiana.
I think he was a Dodge dealer and didn't have the tune right but it didn't blow up on the track.

[440dart]

Iam eye deep in snomobileing and turbo propane injected yamahas have been around for years your talking 500+HP at 500lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAQdo5rD-jg and now 2stroke propane turbo sleds are becomeing popular http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1NoVjPdb24


I dont see why this couldnt be done on a TD so lets say on a big HP car how would the electronics work since you wouldnt be running fuel anymore or would the ecu not even know what going on???

[DodgeZdad]

Iam eye deep in snomobileing and turbo propane injected yamahas have been around for years your talking 500+HP at 500lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAQdo5rD-jg and now 2stroke propane turbo sleds are becomeing popular http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1NoVjPdb24


I dont see why this couldnt be done on a TD so lets say on a big HP car how would the electronics work since you wouldnt be running fuel anymore or would the ecu not even know what going on???
I remember the first ecu controlled 305 El Camino with ecm controlled distributor gave is big problems and the timing was all over the place until we installed a vacuum unit. We used a infrared machine to tune them.

[RoadWarrior222]

do they need bottle warmers or something on the sleds, I thought cold weather killed pressure in propane tanks.

[shackwrrr]

do they need bottle warmers or something on the sleds, I thought cold weather killed pressure in propane tanks.

The regulators get fed liquid. It doesn't matter the pressure of the liquid as long as its enough to make it up the line. Once in the regulator its heated up by coolant or hot air from the engine converts it to gas at a low pressure.

[d3nt]

there is a old impco propane convertion kit on the allpar forum for sale. made for our carbed 2.2's

http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/136019-impco-propane-coversion-early-22-fwd/

[Vigo]

and is bring about anything in them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CT4y-UiwdC0/SvlmqWjdGkI/AAAAAAAABvM/JdYGOKsMqAY/s320/gil-head-explode-again.gif

[black86glhs]

I tried running a car on LP, but it kept dropping off the gas and scraping the rims on the asphalt. I had to put regular tires back on it. :(