Belt-Squeal... again

[contraption22]

So, last year I replaced all my belts, several times. I replaced my bushings with PB polys and aligned everything perfectly.

However, now, it's squeeling again. Figuring maybe the belt stretched a bit, i took a good look at everything before just tightening things up, and found that the alternator is c0cked slightley. I looked at where the long bolt goes through the bushing on the accessory side, and sure enough, the bushing is compressed on one side. So obviously the belt was tight enough, but now the alternator is c0cked and the belt is riding tightly on one edge.

So... how tight is this belt supposed to be for it not to squeel? I would assume mine is overtightened at this point? If not, I am thinking about making aluminum or bronze bushings to go in the alt bracket.

Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

[135sohc]

I still use the stock rubber units without problems. Backoff the tension and get a goodyear gatorback belt. If the lower rubber teardrop/donut thing is torn and off center Rbryant makes an aluminum bracket to replace it.

[cordes]

I've found that the tension will loosen over time on some of my tensioners. I use a little locktite on the screw which tensions the belt now and it helps to eliminate that problem.

Is your WP pulley rusty at all? I went through a bunch of belts on the Shadow because I was too lazy to take the rust off. Belts do that very slowly from what I've seen and it takes a few of them to compete the task. :p

[contraption22]

Belt is very tight. Just not getting full contact with the alternator pulley because it is c0cked.

Water pump pulley isn't rusty.

I guess I will take everything off, rotate the bushing so it is not on the crushed side and see how that works.

I hate little things like this.

[cordes]

Belt is very tight. Just not getting full contact with the alternator pulley because it is c0cked.

Water pump pulley isn't rusty.

I guess I will take everything off, rotate the bushing so it is not on the crushed side and see how that works.

I hate little things like this.

Get the bushings made up and sell them. If I ever break down and buy any I'll purchase a set.

[Directconnection]

So... how tight is this belt supposed to be for it not to squeel? I would assume mine is overtightened at this point? Any ideas or help would be appreciated.


Oh I get it! SRT4 Quote of the day? :D

Just fawking with you, Mike. Not sure why your alt is ----ed at an angle... never had that issue before and using original old bushings, to boot.

But maybe you accidentaly did what I did once: I overtightened the alt. pivot point and SMOKED the belt. Maybe you're doing the same making it offset?

[turbovanman²]

I tighten them just so you can push down a bit on the longest part, never had an issue with squealing. Maybe you over tightened it and damaged the bushings over time?

[contraption22]

Get the bushings made up and sell them. If I ever break down and buy any I'll purchase a set.

I would, but Johnny already makes the Poly ones like I have now. And they are better than any normal person needs... Wish I was normal.

[contraption22]

Oh I get it! SRT4 Quote of the day? :D

Just fawking with you, Mike. Not sure why your alt is ----ed at an angle... never had that issue before and using original old bushings, to boot.

But maybe you accidentaly did what I did once: I overtightened the alt. pivot point and SMOKED the belt. Maybe you're doing the same making it offset?

Hahaha... i wish it was an SRTforums issue! They have auto tensionsioners on the alternator.

[turbovanman²]

I would, but Johnny already makes the Poly ones like I have now. And they are better than any normal person needs... Wish I was normal.

Oh giddity!

[spirit1991]

I've had good luck on my 3.0 with Goodyear Gator Back belts.

[Aries_Turbo]

i fought belt squeal on my kcar for a while..... till i bought a better belt.

the label on the cheapies squeaked like a bastard.

Brian

[RoadWarrior222]

Well you definitely want to make sure everything is lined up. But I've had a belt or two that just squealed like hell whatever I did. Ended up keeping a can of "belt dressing" in the car and hitting it every when it got too annoying.

Those gatorbacks do seem particularly quiet... though when I got a belt for my 3.0 they couldn't get one. Mine has the A/C driven separate, that why?

[135sohc]

Well you definitely want to make sure everything is lined up. But I've had a belt or two that just squealed like hell whatever I did. Ended up keeping a can of "belt dressing" in the car and hitting it every when it got too annoying.

Those gatorbacks do seem particularly quiet... though when I got a belt for my 3.0 they couldn't get one. Mine has the A/C driven separate, that why?

Pretty sure all 3.0's use a seperate V belt for the a/c drive ?

[RoadWarrior222]

Thought the later ones were different.Forgot.

[contraption22]

Well you definitely want to make sure everything is lined up. But I've had a belt or two that just squealed like hell whatever I did. Ended up keeping a can of "belt dressing" in the car and hitting it every when it got too annoying.

Those gatorbacks do seem particularly quiet... though when I got a belt for my 3.0 they couldn't get one. Mine has the A/C driven separate, that why?

Belt dressing is a lubricant. That just makes belts slip more quietly.

[Aries_Turbo]

belt dressing isnt a lube. it breaks down some chemical bonds in the rubber making it more sticky.

its like VHT for a belt.

it decreases the life of the belt though.

[RoadWarrior222]

Yah, it made it sticky, blacked the pulleys up a bit from the rubber coming off the belt. Sprayed out clear.

Actually, I think my problem was where I was living, near water, got mizzly fogs frequently in the morning. So the belt would get wet, then slip, and get polished, so it would slip when it wasn't wet. Then it would be fine for a while after the dressing had broke up the shine, until it got wet again... I think actually that was the same belt I only just took off a couple of months ago, and it had been quiet for 5 years since I moved.

[Mopar318]

belt dressing isnt a lube. it breaks down some chemical bonds in the rubber making it more sticky.

its like VHT for a belt.

it decreases the life of the belt though.

Also glazes the pulleys over deeming the whole belt system junk.

When I got my dakota it had a bend idler pulley. People kept spraying on belt dressing to get the belt to stop squeeking and all of the pulley has a bunch of hard slippery glaze that would NOT come off. I ended up replacing pretty much everything.

[A.J.]

I replaced an alternator with an Autozone one because I was in a pinch and the belt started to squeal. Turns out the meat heads that rebuilt the alternator put the pulley on backwards. The belt alignment was off by a 1/16" and it was enough to cause the belt to squeal constantly. I don't know if this will help, but I wanted to share.

A.J.

[RoadWarrior222]

And I've had an alt with the wrong pulley on.

[TheCanadian007]

I yanked a rebuild alt from the junk yard and same thing happened - whoever rebuilt it put a huge (1/4'') washer on the pulley which made it sit out far too much. Replaced it with a smaller washer and all is well.

+1 on no belt dressing - just a band-aid fix for an underlying issue.

[contraption22]

Instead of belt dressing... i use valve grinding compound. Dab a little on the belt and it's quiet for a few days.

I am re-doing everything. Taking off the underdrive pully and putting the OE pulley back on. New belts, everything aligned.


Should be good after that.

[contraption22]

You have no idea how frustrating it is to feel so defeated by something that seems so simple. Ordered some more bushings from Johnny on Monday. Lets hope this solves the issue.

While I am replacing them, I'm gonna put a straight-edge on the alternator pulley to try and get a better look at the alignment. It looks pretty good by sight, but it's tough to tell.

[Johnny]

You should have them today!!
"Your item is out for delivery at 8:43 am on December 01, 2010."

[turbovanman²]

Update?

[contraption22]

New bushings are in. Something is still out of alignment.

[RoadWarrior222]

Ain't yer PS pump is it? Either squealing inside or dragging and causing slip.

[BIGBRUDDA]

Belts and alignment we're part of my stock and trade for years.
Don't get discouraged Mike. I've spent 8hrs aligning a belt & sheave drive only to have it jump out again at the hit of the switch.:banghead:
The problem occurs cause we align and tighten with the ALT and accessories static (not under load). Once the motor starts and we "load" the system, makin lectric & pumpin fluid.The running resistance takes over. And you're all jacked outa shape again!:mecry:
Several suggestions
1) take Johnny's bushings to a machinist, have um made out of aluminum.
2)Brace the backside of the lower ALT mount arm(bout 5 in of .5 flat stock@ 90 deg should do it)
3)maybe a third leg, from back of lower mount to a front mtr mount bolt.

[turbovanman²]

Its gotta be something simple, only a few have this issue, :o

[contraption22]

The alternator is now spinning paralell to the crankshaft with help from the new bushings. So that's better. Last night I took a screwdriver and pryed the alternator left and right on it's pivot, and the squeel went away as I pushed it closer to the pass side. So it still needs some more shimming to align correctly, even tho it looks fine by eye.

I don't have a heater for my garage yet, and it's ungodly cold outside, so I probably will not get to work on it till this weekend.

Why is it these simple little things that always give me the hardest time. It's a belt squeal. Why does it have my balls so twisted?

[contraption22]

I think it's fixed.

I figured I would follow the TSB and do everything it said. Of course, I didn't have the washer they specified, but I assumed it was just a washer with a hole big enough for the metal sleeve inside the alt bracket bushing to fit through. So I used a mag-style lugnut washer.

Seems to work well. Drove it home last night and to work this morning without a chirp

[Johnny]

Great! Glad you got it fixed.

[contraption22]

Thanks, Johnny! Now that this is fixed, I can hear all the other noises she makes now. :)

[RoadWarrior222]

I solved that problem, I just drive down the road with deck box full of cats in heat...

[audiomaninc]

I think it's fixed.

I figured I would follow the TSB and do everything it said. Of course, I didn't have the washer they specified, but I assumed it was just a washer with a hole big enough for the metal sleeve inside the alt bracket bushing to fit through. So I used a mag-style lugnut washer.

Seems to work well. Drove it home last night and to work this morning without a chirp

Please enlighten me on this TSB...I've been fighting my belt squeel for months :confused2: I've been too embarrassed to say anything after spending a hundred or more dollars on different length and brand belts only to have the problem come back after a day of beautiful silence. :(

[contraption22]

Hopefully this works.

[contraption22]

My neighbors must love me. I stopped using my remote start on the car because of the belt chirp. Now that it's quiet, I used it this morning and had a nice warm car to get into.

I had to chuckle because my neighbor's newish Jetta was idling next to my car when I walked outside.... and it has a chirping belt. :)

[audiomaninc]

That's great! I ordered some alt. bushings from Johnny this weekend, and I'll be alligning everything as per the TSB when they get here. I can't wait to use my remote start either!

[wheming]

Just saw this now Mike but glad you fixed it.

Slug had the same problem and i went through it all. Still had the chirp after doing polybushings from Johnny. After some comparing and measuring i found the metal sleave with the new bushing was the wrong length so the alt was out of alignment when tight. Had to trim then file until the proper length.
Now Mini has developed the chirp with her new belt and ive got some polys to go in but expect the same.

[contraption22]

Just saw this now Mike but glad you fixed it.

Slug had the same problem and i went through it all. Still had the chirp after doing polybushings from Johnny. After some comparing and measuring i found the metal sleave with the new bushing was the wrong length so the alt was out of alignment when tight. Had to trim then file until the proper length.
Now Mini has developed the chirp with her new belt and ive got some polys to go in but expect the same.

Thanks, Wayne.

I am not sure about the earlier-style bushings, but both my Horizon and the Acclaim both took the later-style bushings, and I had to re-use my original sleeves.

Good luck.