MS3 questions in general

[Reaper1]

OK, it's not like I can afford it, but I'm starting to do some more actual research into tuning my car.

I've followed the whole using the stock computer thing forever and honestly I'm so lost as to how to actually do it I don't want to mess with it. There's really nobody in my area that has any experience (that I know of) with doing it and honestly, it seems like a gigantic PITA when it comes to sorting out the drivability issues. We don't really know EXACTLY what everything does, and it seems every time I turn around somebody finds one little thing that screws up a bunch of other stuff. NOT my idea of fun. For those that like computer programming and such as a hobby, I think it's great. I want to tune my friggin car!

So, with that being said, I've decided to really look into the whole Mega Squirt thing. I've known for a while that MS3 was coming out and that it offers a whole slew of nice features that seem bennefitial to me. What I'm confused about is the whole daughterboard thing. Is the MS3 its own thing, or do you still have to have a MS2 and then buy the MS3 daughterboard to go onto it? I also realize that the software isn't 100% yet, but I figure by the time I can actually afford to, and have the time to do this, it probably will be! LOL

So, can somebody set me straight as to what hardware is needed for a complete MS3 set-up? I don't know that I'd need the MS3X board, but it does add some VERY nice features to the already awesome MS3!

Thanks!

[turbovanman²]

No offence but if you can't tune the stock stuff, tuning others will still be difficult.

There are lots of vids etc on here to help you, plus you only need to really alter 6 or so parameters, if that. I'd be happy to help if you want to chat on the phone, its not as hard as you think.

[rdnoel86]

While that is a generous offer of help...you didn't come close to answering his question. I'd be interested in hearing exactly what MS3 parts are needed for T-M's as I'm thinking about getting away from the socketed stuff and going that route in the future...I haven't paid much attention to the MS upgrades and what they offer in a while. I'll do my own research but I also always like to get input from people that are more knowledgable than I.......



No offence but if you can't tune the stock stuff, tuning others will still be difficult.

There are lots of vids etc on here to help you, plus you only need to really alter 6 or so parameters, if that. I'd be happy to help if you want to chat on the phone, its not as hard as you think.

[MopàrBCN]

No offence but if you can't tune the stock stuff, tuning others will still be difficult.

There are lots of vids etc on here to help you, plus you only need to really alter 6 or so parameters, if that. I'd be happy to help if you want to chat on the phone, its not as hard as you think.

Hi, while principally I would agree with your statement, in my personal view, learning with megasquirt may be easier.

While making custom cals has the advantage that you can work off already proven code working with megasquirt has the advantage that you see directly what you did. This type of realtime tuning I personally find very intuitive.

What one should be aware of is that (again only my personal view) using megasquirt without a dyno at hand will bring at max a usuable basic tune. To really get a good tuned car you'll need a dyno whereas with custom cals you can experiment yourself step by step to the expected results more easily...

[risen]

OK, it's not like I can afford it, but I'm starting to do some more actual research into tuning my car.

I've followed the whole using the stock computer thing forever and honestly I'm so lost as to how to actually do it I don't want to mess with it. There's really nobody in my area that has any experience (that I know of) with doing it and honestly, it seems like a gigantic PITA when it comes to sorting out the drivability issues. We don't really know EXACTLY what everything does, and it seems every time I turn around somebody finds one little thing that screws up a bunch of other stuff. NOT my idea of fun. For those that like computer programming and such as a hobby, I think it's great. I want to tune my friggin car!

So, with that being said, I've decided to really look into the whole Mega Squirt thing. I've known for a while that MS3 was coming out and that it offers a whole slew of nice features that seem bennefitial to me. What I'm confused about is the whole daughterboard thing. Is the MS3 its own thing, or do you still have to have a MS2 and then buy the MS3 daughterboard to go onto it? I also realize that the software isn't 100% yet, but I figure by the time I can actually afford to, and have the time to do this, it probably will be! LOL

So, can somebody set me straight as to what hardware is needed for a complete MS3 set-up? I don't know that I'd need the MS3X board, but it does add some VERY nice features to the already awesome MS3!

Thanks!

I guess it depends on what you're talking about. The MS3 cpu part is more or less a duaghterboard. MS2 was the same thing. When they went from MS1 to MS2 they replaced a 40 pin chip with a small board and another set of chips. The MS3 cpu does the same thing. IDK if the MS3X is done or not, I've not been paying the most attention lately.

If you don't have any megasquirt hardware yet, and you're sure you want to do it, I'd say just go to diyautotune.com and grab yourself MS3 complete or MS3 kit (if you feel like soldering). That'll include everything you need to have a fully functioning MS3. You'll probably only need wiring supplies after taht.

I will say that I think your perception of the problems with custom cals are a bit overstated. If the MS software is 99.5% done, I'd say the custom cals are 99.8% done.

I also don't think there's a difference as to which one you learn first. It's going to be hard either way. You have to expect either one to give you headaches and frustration. Tuning an engine on any ECU platform takes some investment in time. I like to think about it this way: ECUs attempt to achieve the same goal, no matter who made the hardware. They try to make an engine run and they do so by adjusting the same parameters (fuel and spark) and at the highest level aren't all different from one another. Tuning an ecu or engine isn't special relativity, but it's not cookie baking either. Put the time into understanding your chosen ECU and you'll find any other easier to understand.

[Reaper1]

No offence but if you can't tune the stock stuff, tuning others will still be difficult.

There are lots of vids etc on here to help you, plus you only need to really alter 6 or so parameters, if that. I'd be happy to help if you want to chat on the phone, its not as hard as you think.

There's part of me that agrees and part of me that doesn't. The part of me that agrees is the part of me that is inherantly affraid of computer stuff. The part of me that doesn't agree is the part that knows that I DO understand the principles of tuning, I am willing to try to learn.

While I agree that there are many of the TM-rs out there that have the stock stuff figured out pretty darn well, and just "see" the code and know what's going on, I don't. Admitedly it's been YEARS since I tired to fiddle with one of the tuners, so things have probably changed a bit. The thing I'm most worried about, and the thing that grabs my attention is the fact that no matter how well the tune seems to be, there is ALWAYS a drivability issue. Either it's random misses, a flat spot, weird idle...whatever, there's always SOMETHING. After listening to 5Digits talk at SDAC18 it became very clear that even though the basic stuff we mess with is what is needed to make the power we want, it DOES effect other parts of the tune, and some of that hasn't been linked yet, discovered, or defined. So even though it's "easy", it's both easy to make power AND to screw up drivability.

Simon, please read my entire response in this post. I'd love to chat with ya, and might do so just to chat with another TM'r! :thumb:


I guess it depends on what you're talking about. The MS3 cpu part is more or less a duaghterboard. MS2 was the same thing. When they went from MS1 to MS2 they replaced a 40 pin chip with a small board and another set of chips. The MS3 cpu does the same thing. IDK if the MS3X is done or not, I've not been paying the most attention lately.

If you don't have any megasquirt hardware yet, and you're sure you want to do it, I'd say just go to diyautotune.com and grab yourself MS3 complete or MS3 kit (if you feel like soldering). That'll include everything you need to have a fully functioning MS3. You'll probably only need wiring supplies after taht.

I will say that I think your perception of the problems with custom cals are a bit overstated. If the MS software is 99.5% done, I'd say the custom cals are 99.8% done.

I also don't think there's a difference as to which one you learn first. It's going to be hard either way. You have to expect either one to give you headaches and frustration. Tuning an engine on any ECU platform takes some investment in time. I like to think about it this way: ECUs attempt to achieve the same goal, no matter who made the hardware. They try to make an engine run and they do so by adjusting the same parameters (fuel and spark) and at the highest level aren't all different from one another. Tuning an ecu or engine isn't special relativity, but it's not cookie baking either. Put the time into understanding your chosen ECU and you'll find any other easier to understand.

Thank you for your explination. After re-reading the descriptions I figured out that MS3 uses the basic V3.0 board, and then what makes MS3 special is the MS3 daughterboard that plugs onto that (and the MS3X if you choose to add that as well). It doesn't matter if you get MS2 or MS3, both can use the V3.0 board, it's the daughterboard that makes the difference! YAY!! I understood something! I want a cookie! LOL :clap:

DIYautotune is where I've started my research. They seem to be a great resource and link to all the pertinant information and forums needed to be successful.;)

I might be overracting to the problems I've described with the custom stock cals, but the fact remains that it just doesn't seem to be as intuative as I'd like. Now, as I stated with Simon, it's been YEARS since I even have looked at a cal modification program, so maybe things have changed since then. I'm a visual person. Numbers are a great refference for me, but I like graphs and tables and such. I also like definative descriptions of what things do and how to do them. The last time I looked, yeah, there were about 75% of the tables that had a name, but the description of what they actually did was lacking. As I stated above, when talking with 5Digits at SDAC18 he made it very clear that it is VERY easy to mess up drivability on the stock system because of how everything is tied together. This is something that people are STILL fighting with, even after almost 10 years of calibration tuning! Mine is a stutter while at highway cruise speeds in a low throttle position and low vacuum condition. The same issue has been experienced by a LOT of other people and I personally find it EXTREMELY annoying! :yuck:

I agree that be it a modded stock cal, or a stand alone, they attempt to do the exact same thing. I also agree that either one will pose its own unique problems when its time to tune and get the car driving like you never messed with anything. What attracts me to the MS3 is that is can datalog easily, use a WB02 easily, has very defined parameters, it has a support group in the thousands, is expandable and it can be repaired if something goes wrong. It also seems to me that they have pretty detailed insturctions as to what parameters do what and how they effect other things in the tune. :thumb:

I'm not saying it's going to be "baking cookies" (hell, I screw that up too! :nod: ), but it does seem like getting the basic tune and the car running well are fairly simple. I just had some friends that converted their turbocharged Type 4 VW engine (the turbo is off of my old LeBaron! :D ) to EFI with MS2. It's not tuned all the way, but within a few days they went from the engine just starting and idling, to being able to make, and hold more boost and power than they EVER did with the carbs on it! :clap: As finiky as that engine was with the carbs, they got it singing with the MS2! They spent MONTHS trying to get it to run right with carbs, and less than a week with the EFI! That kinda says something for me. :eyebrows:

Now, I'm not saying I'm throwing in the towel on the stock SMEC...yet. I think it would still be cool to do and be able to say it's "stock". The stock computer has the advantage of the knock detection that is correct for our engine, which is a HUGE advantage. :thumb: It also doesn't really require any rewiring. It is also very easy to return it to stock if need be. Honestly it's just that I feel very uncomfortable with ANY of the tuning software I've seen, and then having to go between two different programs to get a cal tweaked "just right" just seems like it's asking for trouble! :confused: Especially for somebody like me. :yuck:

Anyway, thanks for putting up with my long friggin response. I look forward to continuing this conversation to learn more about each option! :nod:

[ShelGame]

I just wanted to point out a couple of things:

1) the random misses in the SMEC code is gone, and never exsisted in the LM. The SBEC is still a work in progress. And yes, everytime we add a feature, there is the risk of something going wrong. MS has that risk, too.

2) Other advantages of a stock system - you get to keep cruise control, and emissions control. May not be important to everyone, but to some it is.

3) ALL of the tables and constants have been defined in the LM, SMEC, and SBEC. There is not an accurate description of everything because, well, who's going to 'tune' the EGR anyway? Or the purge control? But, 90+% of the code is well defined. Though, I would tend to agree that tuning is still a bit difficult becuase the information is not all put into one location. I'm planning to work on that, though.

4) If you haven't looked at tuning the stock stuff in 6-9months, I suggest you check out MP Tuner and the latest Turbonator codes. It's a huge step forward from where we were a year ago.

Other than that, I can't add anything about MS as I have never used it. From what I have seen, it does have some pretty nice tuning abilities. But, it's also much simpler in terms of function (and less advanced in many ways) than our stock systems.

[Aries_Turbo]

While I agree that there are many of the TM-rs out there that have the stock stuff figured out pretty darn well, and just "see" the code and know what's going on, I don't.

i dont know crap about the code. i mean i have a BSEE and ive dealt with motorola assembly code before in school but its not something im naturally good at. it takes hard work for me to read down through code and know whats going on.

i do know about tuning though. who do you think taught simon what tables to modify and whatnot.

i really dont have those wierd drivability issues with my cars and 2.5L engines being run on the LM.

the SMEC stuff has gotten really solid too.

now for the MS cause i have experience with that too.

you need to buy a MS 3.0 board and the MS3 processor card which is similar to a MS2 processor card.

the MS3X is an additional ignition/injector driver board that allows you to easily have coil on plug and high impedance injectors but you dont need it for a distributor based setup with batch fire injection.

now, MS is a pain in the --- to set up and get all the bugs worked out of a setup. wiring/grounds/power feeds and locations are CRITICAL to having a good working system.

knock detection is severely lacking on the MS system though there is work being done to remedy that. i think the MS3 guys are working on adding knock windowing with hopefully an interrupt trigger.

MS2 worst case with the best knock detection box hooked to it, can have up to a 50 millisecond delay before it starts retarding timing.

Brian

[Reaper1]

I just wanted to point out a couple of things:

1) the random misses in the SMEC code is gone, and never exsisted in the LM. The SBEC is still a work in progress. And yes, everytime we add a feature, there is the risk of something going wrong. MS has that risk, too.

2) Other advantages of a stock system - you get to keep cruise control, and emissions control. May not be important to everyone, but to some it is.

3) ALL of the tables and constants have been defined in the LM, SMEC, and SBEC. There is not an accurate description of everything because, well, who's going to 'tune' the EGR anyway? Or the purge control? But, 90+% of the code is well defined. Though, I would tend to agree that tuning is still a bit difficult becuase the information is not all put into one location. I'm planning to work on that, though.

4) If you haven't looked at tuning the stock stuff in 6-9months, I suggest you check out MP Tuner and the latest Turbonator codes. It's a huge step forward from where we were a year ago.

Other than that, I can't add anything about MS as I have never used it. From what I have seen, it does have some pretty nice tuning abilities. But, it's also much simpler in terms of function (and less advanced in many ways) than our stock systems.

Cool. I suppose I'll have to give it a better look. I know that your cal yo did for me works very well. I just can't run it right now because I need to have 93 in the car or it'll knock. It does work VERY well though...MUCH better than the "other" cal I have in there now.

As for cruise...if my car had it from the factory it'd be cool! ;) LOL


i dont know crap about the code. i mean i have a BSEE and ive dealt with motorola assembly code before in school but its not something im naturally good at. it takes hard work for me to read down through code and know whats going on.

i do know about tuning though. who do you think taught simon what tables to modify and whatnot.

i really dont have those wierd drivability issues with my cars and 2.5L engines being run on the LM.

the SMEC stuff has gotten really solid too.

now for the MS cause i have experience with that too.

you need to buy a MS 3.0 board and the MS3 processor card which is similar to a MS2 processor card.

the MS3X is an additional ignition/injector driver board that allows you to easily have coil on plug and high impedance injectors but you dont need it for a distributor based setup with batch fire injection.

now, MS is a pain in the --- to set up and get all the bugs worked out of a setup. wiring/grounds/power feeds and locations are CRITICAL to having a good working system.

knock detection is severely lacking on the MS system though there is work being done to remedy that. i think the MS3 guys are working on adding knock windowing with hopefully an interrupt trigger.

MS2 worst case with the best knock detection box hooked to it, can have up to a 50 millisecond delay before it starts retarding timing.

Brian

Yeah, the knock detection thing is the biggest advantage to the stock computer that I can come up with. I actually would like to do a COP or wasted spark ignition on my car to get rid of the hall effect and distributor. Yeah, it works, but there are better ways to git-r-done! ;)

I'll take a gander at the new cal tuner stuff and see what it's all about. I PROMISE! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I hear what your saying and in the last few years, the cals have come in leaps and bounds. I LOVE my SES light flash for knock, it is truly a lifesaver and its so easy to see when your driving/tuning.

As for code, I know nothing, I mean I know cars, its my job, I know what does what-IE AF ratio, spark timing etc but agreed, the stock stuff-IE names is intimidating, I knew enough to be dangerous but didn't know exactly which tables to adjust. Brian aka Aries_Turbo was nice enough to talk to me for hours and figure it out and once you get a grasp, it truly is cake. Like I said earlier, you really only need to tweak a handful of parameters and the best part is, if you mess up, then you simply make a new cal and tweak it.

I also love the fact you can put 2 cals on top of each other, so you can see what you had before and compare instantly, when adjusting.

And as Brian has said about his setups, with my highly modded engine, with some minor tweaks, it runs great with no hiccups, stumbles etc and the AF ratio I pretty well nailed it out of the box, now the spark timing, don't get me started, :eyebrows: My a/c works, cruise and all the factory gizmo's. You can adjust fan temp controls, idle speed, SES light flash for knock, shift light, anti lag, he's working on the launch control, blah blah blah, :D

Anyhow, enough ranting about the stock stuff, :p

[Reaper1]

I'm gonna take another look at the stock stuff for sure. I'm not ready to pull the trigger on any kind of aftermarket anything yet anyway. I'm WAY too broke! I'm worried about buying food for the rest of the month, so this is really an arbitrary conversation. I'm putting feelers out and doing my homework, so to speak, so that when I AM ready, I'll take the plunge head first and hopefully with a good understanding of where I'm headed.

Thanks for the support guys! It really means a lot to me! :thumb:

[zin]

I actually would like to do a COP or wasted spark ignition on my car to get rid of the hall effect and distributor.

I believe Risen has been working on getting COP as an option on a OE computer... Something I've been waiting somewhat anxiously for. I don't care for dizzys and the issues they can bring, kinda like I hate drum brakes! Yeah, they do an admirable job, but, in my mind, they just aren't quite the right tool for the job.

Also, Rob is working on Flashable SBECs and has the flashable SMECs, so programing/updating is getting easier and easier... I don't know if I should bring up the Android app that's being looked at, but I guess I just did!;)

In the end, it comes down to what you feel comfortable doing/spending, but there is quite a bit going for the OE stuff, thanks to Rob and countless others.

Mike

[Reaper1]

Yeah, I would love to do COP or something like that, but I don't know what coils I'd use quite yet. The Ford (4.6/5.4) and GM(LSX) ones both seem to fail quite often. If I went wated spark I'd not even consider the Neon coil as it just seems to suck. I had a guy tell me the DSM one was decent, but I dunno if I'd trust THAT thinking! LOL

[Mopar318]

Yeah, I would love to do COP or something like that, but I don't know what coils I'd use quite yet. The Ford (4.6/5.4) and GM(LSX) ones both seem to fail quite often. If I went wated spark I'd not even consider the Neon coil as it just seems to suck. I had a guy tell me the DSM one was decent, but I dunno if I'd trust THAT thinking! LOL

I dont think the neon wasted spark sucks.:confused:Its a simpler, cheaper, more reliable than a coil on plug. The MS2 can run the wasted spark setup if you install the dual coil drivers.

If you run standard dizzy and single coil you can run all the stock MS2 wiring. MS2 only has about 15 wires to hook up, its pretty simple.

[turbovanman²]

I believe Risen has been working on getting COP as an option on a OE computer... Something I've been waiting somewhat anxiously for. I don't care for dizzys and the issues they can bring, kinda like I hate drum brakes! Yeah, they do an admirable job, but, in my mind, they just aren't quite the right tool for the job.

Also, Rob is working on Flashable SBECs and has the flashable SMECs, so programing/updating is getting easier and easier... I don't know if I should bring up the Android app that's being looked at, but I guess I just did!;)

In the end, it comes down to what you feel comfortable doing/spending, but there is quite a bit going for the OE stuff, thanks to Rob and countless others.

Mike

Someone came up with something a few years ago, IIRC, Aries_Turbo has the plans.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I'm still using stock cals and Rob's old 3 bar stock based cals. They work great. Once I had a wideband tuning was a snap. And I'm no computer master either. But I can drag boxes around.

[risen]

I believe Risen has been working on getting COP as an option on a OE computer... Something I've been waiting somewhat anxiously for. I don't care for dizzys and the issues they can bring, kinda like I hate drum brakes! Yeah, they do an admirable job, but, in my mind, they just aren't quite the right tool for the job.

Mike
I am still working on the COP/coilpack setup. The COP is waste spark, but the setup will do either/or for coil hardware. So if you have a coilpack laying around, you can use that. Though, from my testing I've found the gm d585 coils have so much power that they'll literally rock themselves around when they fire if they're near a metal object ! It's kind of crazy to watch.

I can actually do a full single fire COP setup now, but I'm not sure I want to introduce a MCU into the mix or have people tap the HEP lines. I'm currently doing it with 4 or 5 lines of code in the ASM and some 74 series logic which keeps it nice and simple.

Some day I'll get the starter in my car and actually do some real tests.


Yeah, I would love to do COP or something like that, but I don't know what coils I'd use quite yet. The Ford (4.6/5.4) and GM(LSX) ones both seem to fail quite often. If I went wated spark I'd not even consider the Neon coil as it just seems to suck. I had a guy tell me the DSM one was decent, but I dunno if I'd trust THAT thinking! LOL

I'm running an edis4 coilpack from 1989 on the omni and it's fine. Also, I'd say that the failure rate really only counts in a OEM setting. I wouldn't make any inferences as to the quality of the hardware when you have no idea what else went on that could have caused the premature failure. I can attest to how hot the D585 coils get when they're run around 6k for a minute or 2. If you can't sink some of the heat into the block or body it'll probably be easy to kill them through repeated abuse.

[turbovanman²]

Risen, do you have actually have something? I'd like to run a coil pack and if you need a tester, I'd be glad to offer my services, :nod:

[Aries_Turbo]

Someone came up with something a few years ago, IIRC, Aries_Turbo has the plans.

there was a dude on TD that was planning on making some kits but i dont think it ever fully came to fruition.

i downloaded his files but never tried to build anything.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

there was a dude on TD that was planning on making some kits but i dont think it ever fully came to fruition.

i downloaded his files but never tried to build anything.

Brian

Yeah, that's it. Do you think the plans are viable, I thought he had some of them running?

[turbovanman²]

Forgot to mention on making up a new cal, the hardest part I think is finding all the various settings to disable, IE overboost, overspeed etc, but after that, its not that bad, :nod:

[risen]

Risen, do you have actually have something? I'd like to run a coil pack and if you need a tester, I'd be glad to offer my services, :nod:
See here: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48023 . I could send you the board I used in that test, though it's a bit rough.

I'm just about to start working on the logworks stuff again so I'll have my bench setup out again. You'd want this for a SMEC cal, correct? If so, can you tell me if you're using the purge or egr output lines for anything? If not, I'll try to make it a priority to get the smec on the bench and socketed so I can put the smec code together for you.

Consider yourself signed up for testing duty. :) It may be 6 or 8 weeks before you hear from me, but once I get the little bit of code and hardware ready, you'll wish you never asked :) . Just ask Bucar :).

[turbovanman²]

See here: http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48023 . I could send you the board I used in that test, though it's a bit rough.

I'm just about to start working on the logworks stuff again so I'll have my bench setup out again. You'd want this for a SMEC cal, correct? If so, can you tell me if you're using the purge or egr output lines for anything? If not, I'll try to make it a priority to get the smec on the bench and socketed so I can put the smec code together for you.

Consider yourself signed up for testing duty. :) It may be 6 or 8 weeks before you hear from me, but once I get the little bit of code and hardware ready, you'll wish you never asked :) . Just ask Bucar :).

Ok, I'll check it out.

Using the purge but no EGR.

Consider me a guinea pig, sitting saluting, lol.

SMEC computer, yeppers.

This opens up a way to stop my dist leaking, :amen:

[Reaper1]

I can't wait to see where this goes! :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I just rethunk after seeing your original thread, I would rather have COP, but if you need a tester for the coil pack, I can do that too, I could test both, :nod:

One quick question, I assume that moving the dist will still affect base timing?

[risen]

I just rethunk after seeing your original thread, I would rather have COP, but if you need a tester for the coil pack, I can do that too, I could test both, :nod:

One quick question, I assume that moving the dist will still affect base timing?

Yes, the hall effects and the distributor remain, no matter what. The distributor is used to read the cam angle by the ecu as it normally is so you still have control over mechanical advance. You don't need the cap or rotor, though.

I'd say walk before run. So let's get the coilpack setup going first. The full cop is actually a little easier, but it's much more intrusive.

[turbovanman²]

Yes, the hall effects and the distributor remain, no matter what. The distributor is used to read the cam angle by the ecu as it normally is so you still have control over mechanical advance. You don't need the cap or rotor, though.

I'd say walk before run. So let's get the coilpack setup going first. The full cop is actually a little easier, but it's much more intrusive.

I guess the question should have pertained more to the COP, regarding base timing but understood on the HEP.

No problem, still your man, :nod:

[ShelGame]

Eventually, it would be cool to replace the power board on the SMEC with a new one using newer drivers, and this COP module :thumb:

[risen]

I guess the question should have pertained more to the COP, regarding base timing but understood on the HEP.

No problem, still your man, :nod:
The full COP setup just reads the HEP into a separate MCU to select the correct cylinder to fire. Bit overkill, but should be easily doable since I have a hep decoder built for the knock box. The timing of the final ignition firing will still be fully controlled by the ECU.


Eventually, it would be cool to replace the power board on the SMEC with a new one using newer drivers, and this COP module :thumb:

I'd like to do that too but I think there's still a whole bunch of stuff we need to get an idea of. Like I still don't understand the way they currently do the PWM for the injectors, or what the output from the smec/lm looks like. I've also been waiting on testing my PID controller for the alternator field control. I'm hoping the IGBTs I've chosen are up to the duty of this, but they're specifically targeted for automotive ignitions so I think they'll handle it.

[turbovanman²]

Eventually, it would be cool to replace the power board on the SMEC with a new one using newer drivers, and this COP module :thumb:

No doubt, :nod:


The full COP setup just reads the HEP into a separate MCU to select the correct cylinder to fire. Bit overkill, but should be easily doable since I have a hep decoder built for the knock box. The timing of the final ignition firing will still be fully controlled by the ECU.

Ok.

[Aries_Turbo]

...but once I get the little bit of code and hardware ready, you'll wish you never asked :) . Just ask Bucar :).

you speak as if this is a negative? i love the intense progress. :)

im sitting here twiddling a knock sensor with my fingers. ;)

Brian

[turbovanman²]

you speak as if this is a negative? i love the intense progress. :)

im sitting here twiddling a knock sensor with my fingers. ;)

Brian

I am giddy thinking of this, this is truly awesome and I can't thank you enough, :nod:

[glhs0426]

Back from the dead.

MS3 is an enhanced version of MS2 which I run. Both can use the TunerStudio tuning program which is awesome.

I actually jumped back into my Spirit two weeks ago and decided to make the MS2 work. I use the extra code in 2.2/2.5 mode so I run the stock HEP for cam and crank to trigger the COP. After two days of tinkering in the driveway (3hrs total after work) I drove it around the neighborhood for about 20min, and then parked it for a couple days while I thought about what was going on and how the car reacted to various things. I went back out that Friday, tweaked the AFR table, set to data recorder to on, enabled autotune and drove to work. A solid week of driving to/from work with autotune on and tweaking the timing and AFR tables has made a very nice running car. This little project has built up enough confidence I will just wire my Lebaron without a stock PCM.

The ability to data record and auto tune from the same tuning program are very nice. The user interface is menu driven which is comfortable for me. Diagnostic capablilities are adequate with the tooth and composite loggers although I prefer data recordings along with a trouble code like the factory stuff.

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

BTW. I set up the MS to control fans, boost, factory tachometer, and IAC. The only things left out are the charging, a/c, and cruise control. Charging and a/c are simple. Cruise control requires a little aftermarket intervention.

[Ondonti]

Kyle with the pt6262 3.0 has MS3 going in, I guess he is in the harness stage but not moving fast.
I don't know if I really need to go MS3 on my Duster. Some ID1000 injectors should mean I don't need sequential to run big injectors happily. The onboard datalogging and a few other features are what would be nice. Tracks don't like you having a computer in the car.

[Reaper1]

These are nice tings to know! I'm still in the air as to where I want to go. I suppose once I get the "new" engine I'll have to make that decision.