What kills headgaskets?

[85_600]

Just curious to hear what everyone knows about this topic, since it seems to a part of a Turbo Dodges life ;)

My knowledge isn't a whole lot, but I'm going to guess here:

Detonation and heat...

[tryingbe]

Low quliaty 80's factory dodge head gasket.

[magtec]

it wasn't so much that the gasket was low quality... the problem is that the block is cast iron and the head is cast aluminum. it isn't just chrysler that had problems, bimetal engines are notorious for head gasket failure. the two metals have different thermal expansion rates, which makes it difficult for the gasket to maintain a seal.

[BadAssPerformance]

1 - old age - they deteriorate with time and coolant and oil soaking into them

2 - boost pressure - can push the gasket out of shape

3 - heat - from detonation or over heating

4 -
http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/history/Z_Rt66_3.jpg

[magtec]

i had one installed by someone else that failed quickly and looked like it failed because it was flawed -
http://magtec.rvglug.org/misc/lebaron/headgasket/headgasket.jpg

that engine now has a fel-pro gasket that has lasted 30k miles (on a 204k mile turbo I). it makes me a little paranoid. :)

[BadAssPerformance]

flawed or not prepped properly or slip-n-slid in

[BadAssPerformance]

We can also add under-torqed and over-torqued to the list too

[2.216VTurbo]

+1 on the overtorque, especially in that back corner of #1. Not much gasket back there and if it gets crushed too much, it fails into that water passage:( For years I kept every head gasket that came off any of my cars. They were hanging from a nail in the garage, when the stack was about 2" thick (at least 20-25 gaskets)they were looking unsightly and I was in a cleaning mood so they hit the trash. :o All that documentation record gone forever...

[BadAssPerformance]

+1 on the overtorque, especially in that back corner of #1. Not much gasket back there and if it gets crushed too much, it fails into that water passage:(

Hmmm. I thought I was pushing it there with 30psi thru a fatty boombatty turbo?

Well, got the Cometic Supergasket on the way! :thumb:

[Dave]

Isn't there a propper sequence in tightening the head bolts to let the HG seat right?

If I remember right, torque them down inside out in circular motion to, hell I don't remember, 60 ft/lbs, then again to 70, and again to 75. Put the VC on. Start it up. Let it idle for a few. Shut it off. Pull VC. Tighten to 80.

The numbers aren't right I know, but isn't that the sequence?

[MiniMopar]

Yep, that's right. 45-65-65-1/4turn for the stock 11mm bolts. The original design HG had a design flaw that caused the failure in the corner by #1. There is less block/head sirface area there, so the pressure on the gasket is greater. It would squirt the fire ring into the cylinder, which would burn off and blow the HG into the water jacket. There is a peg in the basement at my folks' place with about 15-20 gaskets on there from 6 or 7 different cars. With a couple of exceptions, they all look the same: fire ring pushed towards the cylinder and blown into the corner jacket by #1.

[puppet]

it wasn't so much that the gasket was low quality... the problem is that the block is cast iron and the head is cast aluminum. it isn't just chrysler that had problems, bimetal engines are notorious for head gasket failure. the two metals have different thermal expansion rates, which makes it difficult for the gasket to maintain a seal.
+1 ^^^^

[zshadow]

+1 on the overtorque, especially in that back corner of #1. Not much gasket back there and if it gets crushed too much, it fails into that water passage:( For years I kept every head gasket that came off any of my cars. They were hanging from a nail in the garage, when the stack was about 2" thick (at least 20-25 gaskets)they were looking unsightly and I was in a cleaning mood so they hit the trash. :o All that documentation record gone forever...


exactly what the shop did with the previous owner of the car. the sent the head out balanced it and what not, replaced the gasket and over torqued the back corner bolt... ontop of that, they over tightened the timing belt which snapped trying to start it.

[2.216VTurbo]

exactly what the shop did with the previous owner of the car. the sent the head out balanced it and what not, replaced the gasket and over torqued the back corner bolt... ontop of that, they over tightened the timing belt which snapped trying to start it.
Sems OK to hijack a bit since the topic is pretty well covered:o Last week me and a couple buddies decided to play hooky and go chase some Yellowtail off of the Island of Catalina, about a 25 mile boat ride from shore. It didn't help that we had record swells that day:yuck: Pre-float check showed the fluids all good but one of the serpentine belt on one of the engines to be banjo-string tight (engines are twin Volvo Penta supercharged AND turbocharged diesels:eyebrows: ) I asked the owner about it and he said he had just replaced the alt and the belt was tightened to the factory spec of 14ft lbs. I asked him if he was sure it wasn't supposed to be 14inlbs instead, half jokingly. Anyway about ten miles from shore, 11:30 at night and the console lights up with low volts/engine temp warning lights. After a quick shutdown, a below deck shows that the belt that I was sure was too tight, was now in shreds. It's late, it's dark and it smells like diesel in the cramped engine hold. Ten minutes down there trying to change the belt bobbing like a cork and I'm blowing chunks:( Needless to say we limped back to shore on one motor:mad:

Hijack mode off now:o any more head gasket stories...?

[Spraynlog]

Reading thru this makes me feel better! My HG blew in the corner of #1 into the water jacket. This was after 6 years of daily driving with summertime trips to the drags. I was running 17lbs boost on alcohol/water injection when it let go. It was a MP gasket #005 on a T1 log intake car. It went 14.95 at 89mph on that pass.:eyebrows:

[Lee'sdaytona]

the Turbo mini I just bought, (non running engine at time from assumed blown HG) had blown water jacket by #1 cyl as well, but also had a melted piston with huge hole in it in the #4 cyl. Not sure which came first?? Its like the chicken or the egg. I don't think it could have ran with eithor condition, so must have happined at the same time
-Lee

[8valves]

I popped a Cometic last year, does that count for something? :o

It was a combination of improperly machined surfaces and cold weather all at once. And when I say popped, I mean destroyed. Blown between cyl 1-2, and into both front and rear water jackets on both cylinders.

Not one of my happier moments. I'm now back on an MP gasket so I don't need a mirror finish on my head and block for a good seal like on the Cometic's.

AM

[turbo xtc]

i have built many heads ford,mopar and gm and i think the big 3 suck at building aluminum heads i have yet to change a head gasket on a german car or jap car i worked in foundry work before for smelting aluinum and i have found out that the contents the usa prefers is high aluninum low iron germans prefer more iron then we do japs buy our remelted aluninum that doesn't meet our "high quality standards" this is my belive they use cast iron/aluninum heads too why is it they don't have to change head gaskets near as often too.not to bash americans quality but i think the usa builds junk heads i have belived this for many years,just like for years germans have used solid lifters now they are starting to use hydralic and they chatter bad even if the car has low miles it might be they don't know as much on them yet but they have been improving them over the last 10 years and the americans have been improving they're heads over the last 10 years.the americans have only been using aluninum heads for only about 25 years the first aluninum block/head i know of built in the us is the first slant 6 but it had a tremendous problem of block twist so it was only availible for two years.the germans have used aluninum heads for over 60 years.another example on technology gm came out with the idea to make a diesel out of they're 350 they thought they could convert a gas engine to a diesel and we all know that was a big mistake the cranks were weak compaired to the compression ratio is totally different 18.1 to 1 versus 9.0 to 1 so now gm just uses diesels from other companies that have been building diesels for a lot more years and have tried and failed a lot more chrysler cut the chase and did that first and saved themselves the expense

[BadAssPerformance]

i have built many heads ford,mopar and gm and i think the big 3 suck at building aluminum heads i have yet to change a head gasket on a german car or jap car ...

Guess you never worked on a Mitsubishi 2.6L and found the headgasket was only leaking because the head was warped.

[GLHSKEN]

Actually, these heads seal just fine. they just don't flow. When cared for... they last a long time. I get a kick out of folks bashing a product when us idiots are making 2-3 times the designed power of the unit... They might overenginerr, but not that much ;)

[turbovanman²]

i have built many heads ford,mopar and gm and i think the big 3 suck at building aluminum heads i have yet to change a head gasket on a german car or jap car i worked in foundry work before for smelting aluinum and i have found out that the contents the usa prefers is high aluninum low iron germans prefer more iron then we do japs buy our remelted aluninum that doesn't meet our "high quality standards" this is my belive they use cast iron/aluninum heads too why is it they don't have to change head gaskets near as often too.not to bash americans quality but i think the usa builds junk heads i have belived this for many years,just like for years germans have used solid lifters now they are starting to use hydralic and they chatter bad even if the car has low miles it might be they don't know as much on them yet but they have been improving them over the last 10 years and the americans have been improving they're heads over the last 10 years.the americans have only been using aluninum heads for only about 25 years the first aluninum block/head i know of built in the us is the first slant 6 but it had a tremendous problem of block twist so it was only availible for two years.the germans have used aluninum heads for over 60 years.another example on technology gm came out with the idea to make a diesel out of they're 350 they thought they could convert a gas engine to a diesel and we all know that was a big mistake the cranks were weak compaired to the compression ratio is totally different 18.1 to 1 versus 9.0 to 1 so now gm just uses diesels from other companies that have been building diesels for a lot more years and have tried and failed a lot more chrysler cut the chase and did that first and saved themselves the expense

I agree to disagree. Ford and Dodge dont' make there own Diesels either. They've all made mistakes.


Anyhow, most gasket failures are overheating, improper installation, abuse or just plain age-nothing lasts forever.
Yes, Imports are better but no much, look at the Toyota 7G inline 6, the Toy 22R, those are notorious for blowing headgaskets.

[boostedblue]

+1 my g/f Lexus has 227k + (4v. dual overcam V-8) 16 yrs. old, no resale and rides as good or better than my sisters, 2005 Chrysler conv., my old dd had 227K (omni na), had a great day, bb:thumb:

[turbo xtc]

i have worked on the 2.6 mitsu and most of the time they were already blown oil pump problems and i have owned a toy pickup with the 22r they were notorius for timing chain rubbing through the timing cover when i went to the junk yard(s) i had a heck of a time finding the cover because that part was already gone but i couldn't complain about the toy it had 207k when i got ran off of the interstate on the original headgasket @167k i had to replace the clutch it slipped for 6 months

[blk86trbo]

Yep, that's right. 45-65-65-1/4turn for the stock 11mm bolts. The original design HG had a design flaw that caused the failure in the corner by #1. There is less block/head sirface area there, so the pressure on the gasket is greater. It would squirt the fire ring into the cylinder, which would burn off and blow the HG into the water jacket. There is a peg in the basement at my folks' place with about 15-20 gaskets on there from 6 or 7 different cars. With a couple of exceptions, they all look the same: fire ring pushed towards the cylinder and blown into the corner jacket by #1.

Wow Russ...you just described exactly what I pulled off the Spirit yesterday!

[MiniMopar]

Wow Russ...you just described exactly what I pulled off the Spirit yesterday!

Ouch...that 's a good one!

[WickedShelby88]

The last 22R I saw blow a head gasket had 225,000 hard miles. My friend used it for off roading and towing. Yes they blow, but not even a comparison to ours which blow after 70k usually from what Ive seen running stock. Think I got 50k out of a T1 log hg until we threw it in a former T2 car and cranked the boost up. That long block wasnt happy and the gasket blew miserably in the usual spot everyone has mentioned. I worked in an independent repair shop for 5 years, and I will say GM had the worst rep for blown headgaskets with their cavalier/S10/S15/corsica 2.2 engine. IMO that is the worst. +1 on the 2.6 being a good engine when untouched. I know a guy who thought he could run 24 psi on one. He spent 3k and went through 3 heads to figure his starion needed to find a new home and be stock. At any rate I think cometic has the upper hand in the gasket realm. The big three had gaskets that are similar available for years that could handle the compression. Im surprised something wasnt developed during the time the shelby cars were being made etc.